trade deadline - Jets talking to cowboys

[Powpow]

11 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

As soon as BB feels hes too old and and longer contributes and will cost more than hes worth this will so happen.

Namath will say 'he's not wearing THAT number. And I don't find anything he does all that well'. 

[CanadaSteve]

8 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

lol, calling it a fallacy is a stretch... and completely contradictions your uber-positive schtick

@gEYno was right in calling out your contradictory nature, lololololololllolllololol

It is true though....You NEVER know what another QB does for another team.

In every Mock draft I did online and with friends, I had us taking Dax Prescott with our 3rd pick.  Would he be doing for us what he is in Dallas?  Don't know.  Without that line, and without Elliot running for him, you just don't know.

[Powpow]

11 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

He is every year. He was for years with Rex, but nobody wanted to listen. He was right, just like me.

I am Joe Namath.

Stop it we know you dressed up like Greg McElroy for Halloween. ? 

[Sperm Edwards]

21 hours ago, cant wait said:

He's arguably the best player on the team. The point of trading sheldon would to be to upgrade the team in another area, a 2nd round pick isn't enough for him

A 2nd rounder plus $8M (in 2016 alone) is two players. And they should be good ones if we get our head back on straight. 

With Sheldon playing out of position so often, a merely average OLB should be an upgrade. The time to wonder if he was the starter at DE ended when we drafted Williams 6th overall + re-signed Mo for huge dollars in back to back offseasons. Now when all 3 are healthy he's just on the field to put him on the field, because you don't just have someone with his talent simply standing on the sideline.

Force-feeding Sheldon into rover'ing from DT to DE to OLB to freaking ILB for 1 more season, is not worth surrendering a 2nd round pick plus $8M next year (after which he's a FA). Not unless we're going to move Mo instead. 

[cant wait]

38 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

A 2nd rounder plus $8M (in 2016 alone) is two players. And they should be good ones if we get our head back on straight. 

With Sheldon playing out of position so often, a merely average OLB should be an upgrade. The time to wonder if he was the starter at DE ended when we drafted Williams 6th overall + re-signed Mo for huge dollars in back to back offseasons. Now when all 3 are healthy he's just on the field to put him on the field, because you don't just have someone with his talent simply standing on the sideline.

Force-feeding Sheldon into rover'ing from DT to DE to OLB to freaking ILB for 1 more season, is not worth surrendering a 2nd round pick plus $8M next year (after which he's a FA). Not unless we're going to move Mo instead. 

Agree that the LB situation is a mess, that's why I thought Beasley was a much better fit than Williams. My point is that sheldon at $8M is a bargain for this team compared to some of the dead weight on this roster, so unloading him for a 2nd round pick is still probably a net negative in terms of talent since he is a premiere player in his prime still. I'd just let him play out his contract then and recoup a 3rd rounder when he walks as a free agent. I understand he's not the best fit with all the DL on this team but the jets should be in no rush to get rid of him IMO

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

On Tuesday, November 01, 2016 at 4:20 PM, UnitedWhofans said:

Sigh,,,,,,My uber-positivity is about the process that the Jets are trying to do. I think its the right process.

It's a very good process, believe me. People say the process is tremendous.

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, cant wait said:

Agree that the LB situation is a mess, that's why I thought Beasley was a much better fit than Williams. My point is that sheldon at $8M is a bargain for this team compared to some of the dead weight on this roster, so unloading him for a 2nd round pick is still probably a net negative in terms of talent since he is a premiere player in his prime still. I'd just let him play out his contract then and recoup a 3rd rounder when he walks as a free agent. I understand he's not the best fit with all the DL on this team but the jets should be in no rush to get rid of him IMO

1. If we're not going to use him properly then 1 more season at $8M (plus forgoing a high draft pick we could get) is no bargain at all.

2. Forget about getting a 3rd round comp pick for him. It will never happen because our GM cannot stay away from UFAs that cancel out his UFAs lost. Also it is no given that teams will be falling over themselves to award Sheldon Richardson with a $15M/yr long term contract. Therefore we should get the high pick when we can get it (if we can even get it).

3. Strictly speaking, a mid-2nd round pick in 2017 at around #50 (give or take) carries the draft chart value of more than 10 compensatory 3rd round picks in 2019 (which itself carries the "chart" value of a late 5th/high 6th round pick in 2017). A 2nd rounder = 400 "points" and a late 5th/early 6th roughly 25-30 "points" so it's an enormous disparity in trade value we'd be surrendering for 1 season of playing Sheldon out of position half the time. Oh yeah, and the player we'd sign for his $8M. 

If it helps illustrate: say a newly-acquired 2nd rounder in 2017 at pick #50 is traded for a pick a year later instead of used, it would be for a pick guessed to be some 20 picks higher in 2018 (roughly late 1st round value, depending on what # overall pick we start at). Trade that 2018 pick away for a 2019 pick, and it would have the value of a mid- or high- 1st round pick in 2019. We'd never do this in reality, but now you've got an apples and apples comparison of compensation value: a mid 1st round pick in 2019 vs. a bottom 3rd (same as top of 4th) round pick. 

[cant wait]

31 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

1. If we're not going to use him properly then 1 more season at $8M (plus forgoing a high draft pick we could get) is no bargain at all.

2. Forget about getting a 3rd round comp pick for him. It will never happen because our GM cannot stay away from UFAs that cancel out his UFAs lost. Also it is no given that teams will be falling over themselves to award Sheldon Richardson with a $15M/yr long term contract. Therefore we should get the high pick when we can get it (if we can even get it).

3. Strictly speaking, a mid-2nd round pick in 2017 at around #50 (give or take) carries the draft chart value of more than 10 compensatory 3rd round picks in 2019 (which itself carries the "chart" value of a late 5th/high 6th round pick in 2017). A 2nd rounder = 400 "points" and a late 5th/early 6th roughly 25-30 "points" so it's an enormous disparity in trade value we'd be surrendering for 1 season of playing Sheldon out of position half the time. Oh yeah, and the player we'd sign for his $8M. 

If it helps illustrate: say a newly-acquired 2nd rounder in 2017 at pick #50 is traded for a pick a year later instead of used, it would be for a pick guessed to be some 20 picks higher in 2018 (roughly late 1st round value, depending on what # overall pick we start at). Trade that 2018 pick away for a 2019 pick, and it would have the value of a mid- or high- 1st round pick in 2019. We'd never do this in reality, but now you've got an apples and apples comparison of compensation value: a mid 1st round pick in 2019 vs. a bottom 3rd (same as top of 4th) round pick. 

One more season at $8M + a franchise 5th year is still a very good value (especially if you look at the caliber of $8M/year players macc has been signing ) , and if I'm not mistaken isn't the end of wilkerson's deal structured to dovetail with sheldon's potential contract? Either way, on the surface at least I don't think trading sheldon for a second round pick is a no brainer unless we're talking about acquiring potential trade chips in order to facilitate a franchise changing kind of deal (I.e. what philly did for wentz) but other than that I don't see a ton of benefit considering the relative lack of young talent on this roster, and the fact that this team is likely to be paying rookie scale for its starting QB next season along with the glut of aging overpriced players that should be first up on the chopping block this offseason

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, cant wait said:

One more season at $8M + a franchise 5th year is still a very good value (especially if you look at the caliber of $8M/year players macc has been signing ) , and if I'm not mistaken isn't the end of wilkerson's deal structured to dovetail with sheldon's potential contract? Either way, on the surface at least I don't think trading sheldon for a second round pick is a no brainer unless we're talking about acquiring potential trade chips in order to facilitate a franchise changing kind of deal (I.e. what philly did for wentz) but other than that I don't see a ton of benefit considering the relative lack of young talent on this roster, and the fact that this team is likely to be paying rookie scale for its starting QB next season along with the glut of aging overpriced players that should be first up on the chopping block this offseason

With that rationale, keep trading our draft picks away for veterans at positions we already have filled. 

Pretend it's March 1, 2017 and we have the same roster minus Sheldon Richardson, but we have a pair of 2nd rounders. With upgrades needed, outright holes, and scheduled FAs at the following starting positions QB, LT, RT, RG, OLB, ILB, CBx2, FS, SS, maybe TE (as well as needed youth at RB and C), you're seriously telling me you'd trade one of those 2nd rounders for a 3rd DE - one who's a loose cannon always a suspension risk, no less - on a 1 year contract at $8M? Come on. Nobody would do that.

Know how this plays out? Sheldon sticks around for 2017, has a 3rd meh season in a row, maybe even gets suspended, then he signs someplace else on a one year show-me contract, and we only get a 5th round comp pick in 2019 (which carries zero trade value today). Actually we don't get even that because Maccagnan will pick up 4 other UFAs in 2018 to cancel out his loss. Lastly, the $8M we paid him won't go towards extending Enunwa early, and by then he costs some $4-5M additional per season than he would have been.

[OH THE PAIN]

On 11/1/2016 at 0:47 PM, joewilly12 said:

Richardson even up for Romo NOOOOOOOOOOO

What have we got to lose ? Sheldon is due for another arrest ....

[cant wait]

10 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

With that rationale, keep trading our draft picks away for veterans at positions we already have filled. 

Pretend it's March 1, 2017 and we have the same roster minus Sheldon Richardson, but we have a pair of 2nd rounders. With upgrades needed, outright holes, and scheduled FAs at the following starting positions QB, LT, RT, RG, OLB, ILB, CBx2, FS, SS, maybe TE (as well as needed youth at RB and C), you're seriously telling me you'd trade one of those 2nd rounders for a 3rd DE - one who's a loose cannon always a suspension risk, no less - on a 1 year contract at $8M? Come on. Nobody would do that.

Know how this plays out? Sheldon sticks around for 2017, has a 3rd meh season in a row, maybe even gets suspended, then he signs someplace else on a one year show-me contract, and we only get a 5th round comp pick in 2019 (which carries zero trade value today). Actually we don't get even that because Maccagnan will pick up 4 other UFAs in 2018 to cancel out his loss. Lastly, the $8M we paid him won't go towards extending Enunwa early, and by then he costs some $4-5M additional per season than he would have been.

You make a good case, but I'm just having a hard time getting on board with trading sheldon for a 2 at this point. Looking at the roster for 2017 there's just so much dead weight that this team is stuck with, it seems like such a waste to dump arguably the best player on the team for less than a first rounder but you're right that we really might have to. If that's the case though I really hope that's not the only deal that gets made because this roster desperately needs an overhaul 

[BurnleyJet]

For me Sheldon is one of the players we need to include, when the house clearance comes. albeit for any draft pick we can get. 

[joewilly12]

Macc if the GM has some work to do this off season there are quite a few contracts that need to be restructured or we need to move on from certain players. 

We arent winning anything being the charity care team of the NFL. 

Specific players need to be asked to restructure or be cut. 

We need to build a winner its been too long since we won anything. 

Macc needs to go hard and heavy at this no exceptions. 

 

[CrazyCarl40]

$heldon Richard$on is only about the money. He doesn't care about the Jets or playing for the Jets or trying to do anything other than getting paid. The Jets already paid Mo. They aren't going Sheldon too. Flip him to someone this offseason to help with the other gigantic holes on the team. 

[joewilly12]

5 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

$heldon Richard$on is only about the money. He doesn't care about the Jets or playing for the Jets or trying to do anything other than getting paid. The Jets already paid Mo. They aren't going Sheldon too. Flip him to someone this offseason to help with the other gigantic holes on the team. 

Carl there is no proof to any of your claims Sheldon plays lights out every game all game he chases down RB's 25 yards downfield Macc needs to find a way to keep Sheldon-Mo-Williams together and we need to build our defense around them. 

Again we need to restructure many not just a few. 

[CrazyCarl40]

8 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Carl there is no proof to any of your claims Sheldon plays lights out every game all game he chases down RB's 25 yards downfield Macc needs to find a way to keep Sheldon-Mo-Williams together and we need to build our defense around them. 

Again we need to restructure many not just a few. 

No proof? Here's a quote from him:

"I just want to play, and yeah, get paid my fair share," he said. "You can't do this forever. You want to win Super Bowls and win games and stuff like that. But you also want to make sure you can take care of your family when it's all said and done and it's over with."

Here's another if he wants to stay a Jet: 

"It's not my choice," he said. "I don't predict the future, so we'll see. You never know, anything can happen in the offseason."

The defense sucks out loud with all three guys. One has to go. He's as good as gone. 

[joewilly12]

7 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

No proof? Here's a quote from him:

"I just want to play, and yeah, get paid my fair share," he said. "You can't do this forever. You want to win Super Bowls and win games and stuff like that. But you also want to make sure you can take care of your family when it's all said and done and it's over with."

Here's another if he wants to stay a Jet: 

"It's not my choice," he said. "I don't predict the future, so we'll see. You never know, anything can happen in the offseason."

The defense sucks out loud with all three guys. One has to go. He's as good as gone. 

Irrelevant quotes says nothing that he doesn't want to be a NY Jet or doesn't care where he plays of course he wants to get paid the NFL is a business. 

Sheldon Richardson lays it all out on the field every game every play. 

Find a way to keep players like him. 

[CrazyCarl40]

1 minute ago, joewilly12 said:

Irrelevant quotes says nothing that he doesn't want to be a NY Jet or doesn't care where he plays of course he wants to get paid the NFL is a business. 

Sheldon Richardson lays it all out on the field every game every play. 

Find a way to keep players like him. 

If someone asks you if you want to continue being a Jet and your answer is that it's out of your hands, that doesn't bode well for his future as a Jet. He just wants to go to the highest bidder. Money is his motivation. Those quotes are recent and very relevant. I'm not sure how you don't understand that. 

[joewilly12]

Just now, CrazyCarl40 said:

If someone asks you if you want to continue being a Jet and your answer is that it's out of your hands, that doesn't bode well for his future as a Jet. He just wants to go to the highest bidder. Money is his motivation. Those quotes are recent and very relevant. I'm not sure how you don't understand that. 

Of course money is the issue the NFL is a business or a cash and grab whatever your choice of words is. 

Maybe if we were a winning franchise players would want to be here sign for less money stay loyal to the Jets. 

NE seems to have a formula dont they

[section314]

12 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Of course money is the issue the NFL is a business or a cash and grab whatever your choice of words is. 

Maybe if we were a winning franchise players would want to be here sign for less money stay loyal to the Jets. 

NE seems to have a formula dont they

On another topic, did you get your invitation to SAR1's reality AFC championship game party yet?

[joewilly12]

14 minutes ago, section314 said:

On another topic, did you get your invitation to SAR1's reality AFC championship game party yet?

LOL not yet only way I'm in is if theres $1 beers 

[section314]

3 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

LOL not yet only way I'm in is if theres $1 beers 

With you on that. I'm afraid he may ban booze altogether, though.LOL

[Big Blocker]

55 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

$heldon Richard$on is only about the money. He doesn't care about the Jets or playing for the Jets or trying to do anything other than getting paid. The Jets already paid Mo. They aren't going Sheldon too. Flip him to someone this offseason to help with the other gigantic holes on the team. 

I think Richardson is the better player, but once the Jets failed to trade Wilk and gave him that big contract, it is hard not to see that as what would end up being writing on the wall as far as Richardson's future with the team.  Another, and a big, reason why they should have traded Wilkerson instead.

[joewilly12]

Can anyone provide a list of the defense along with what we are paying each player. Thanks 

[cant wait]

@Sperm Edwards

i was thinking more about this and two comps came to mind. the abraham trade, granted he didn't have the baggage sheldon has but he was also only signed as a franchise tag. and chandler jones who also had one year of team control left but also came with issues of his own. I think you'd have to grade sheldon closer to jones here given his suspension and the risk attached, plus the pats had little leverage since signing/franchise tag was obviously not in the plan so your value of a top 50 pick sounds like it's comparable value

[Sperm Edwards]

18 hours ago, cant wait said:

@Sperm Edwards

i was thinking more about this and two comps came to mind. the abraham trade, granted he didn't have the baggage sheldon has but he was also only signed as a franchise tag. and chandler jones who also had one year of team control left but also came with issues of his own. I think you'd have to grade sheldon closer to jones here given his suspension and the risk attached, plus the pats had little leverage since signing/franchise tag was obviously not in the plan so your value of a top 50 pick sounds like it's comparable value

As a DE on a 3 man line, in the absence of already having 2 others like him? Keep him.

As a DT on a 4 man line that has smaller/faster ends? Keep him.

Going to play DT, forcing us to line up 300-lbers 4 across, and/or play LB anywhere close to half the time? No.

[Powpow]

22 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Irrelevant quotes says nothing that he doesn't want to be a NY Jet or doesn't care where he plays of course he wants to get paid the NFL is a business. 

Sheldon Richardson lays it all out on the field every game every play. 

Find a way to keep players like him. 

There's no way they are paying Shelly anywhere near MO's contract. He's not exactly been a model citizen and his play has declined although he has been out of position. Regardless, there's to many Indians in the tee pee and not enough money to go around to satisfy them all.