trade deadline - Jets talking to cowboys

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Big Blocker said:

 I said they should trade him in the winter of 15, meaning after the 14 season was over.  I don't understand your question.  but let me help you out here - I suggest you try arguing only on a single front and not two at the same time.

Oh I'm sorry. I didnt understand what you meant. In terms of the 2015 offseason, Macc was just getting into place. I dont think he would have had any intention of rocking the boat that early into his tenure

[bgivs21]

I hope it's Mo headed to Dallas. Trading Richardson would be us trading the wrong DL 

[Mike135]

6 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

And replaced by Geno? That would be popular. I mean, it would have been SOJ for a team to dump the QB that had the best Qb season in Jets history the year before. That has an SOJ ring to it

 

6 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Anyone with Geno Smith as plan B obviously couldn't. 

I don't remember your guys' opinion over the summer, and don't really feel like looking back at the poll, but it sounds like you were supportive of re-signing Fitz.

If so, you do realize you can be wrong right?  It's not the end of the world... or end of your jobs.  Hopefully just Macc's job, if he doesn't make up for the drastic mistake that cost us an entire season.

[UnitedWhofans]

1 minute ago, Mike135 said:

 

I don't remember your guys' opinion over the summer, and don't really feel like looking back at the poll, but it sounds like you were supportive of re-signing Fitz.

If so, you do realize you can be wrong right?  It's not the end of the world... or end of your jobs.  Hopefully just Macc's job, if he doesn't make up for the drastic mistake that cost us an entire season.

At the right price and if only for 1 year, I was for it. Besides, knowing what happened in Seattle with Flynn and Wilson, signing him on that deal guaranteed him nothing

[Integrity28]

1 minute ago, Mike135 said:

 

I don't remember your guys' opinion over the summer, and don't really feel like looking back at the poll, but it sounds like you were supportive of re-signing Fitz.

If so, you do realize you can be wrong right?  It's not the end of the world... or end of your jobs.  Hopefully just Macc's job, if he doesn't make up for the drastic mistake that cost us an entire season.

I was amenable to re-signing Fitz, but I didn't view it as the "top" option. I wanted to trade for Brees or Rivers, ******* all-in! (Because I thought we'd have a top 3 stifling defense.)

[joewilly12]

ESPN just said Jets are actively pursuing a trade for Sheldon but it doesn't look like any deal will happen. 

[Integrity28]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

ESPN just said Jets are actively pursuing a trade for Sheldon but it doesn't look like any deal will happen. 

ESPN just said what the entire internet has been saying for the past 3 hours.

[Mike135]

2 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

At the right price and if only for 1 year, I was for it. Besides, knowing what happened in Seattle with Flynn and Wilson, signing him on that deal guaranteed him nothing

Well at least Macc got that right.  Paid way too much imo, but at least it was for only one year.

[Integrity28]

MacCagnan is misplaying his hand on shopping these trades around. Gross over-valuation. I'm surprised, because he showed a good nose for trading when he landed Marshall and Fitz initially. Now, he's over-paying the worse of Mo and Shel, couldn't move either for draft picks.

Big concern that he's showing zero capacity for accumulating draft picks, given that he's a scout/GM, revamped the whole scouting dept, and knows he's got years of Idzik/Tanny/Rex to augment.

[SAR I]

Only 4 more minutes, come on Maccagnan, it's almost Christmas.

SAR I

[darook]

This is not happening.  What's funny about the interwebbs today is that I see Jets actively shopping Sheldon and a picture of Leo next to the tweet.  Clueless bastages. 

[Big Blocker]

12 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Oh I'm sorry. I didnt understand what you meant. In terms of the 2015 offseason, Macc was just getting into place. I dont think he would have had any intention of rocking the boat that early into his tenure

My point was not about when it would feel comfortable for a rookie HC to make a move like that.  I was talking about the timing of a move that would have been great for the team.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Integrity28 said:

MacCagnan is misplaying his hand on shopping these trades around. Gross over-valuation. I'm surprised, because he showed a good nose for trading when he landed Marshall and Fitz initially. Now, he's over-paying the worse of Mo and Shel, couldn't move either for draft picks.

Big concern that he's showing zero capacity for accumulating draft picks, given that he's a scout/GM, revamped the whole scouting dept, and knows he's got years of Idzik/Tanny/Rex to augment.

Why should he settle below value? I think the Patriots really made a bad trade because they didn't get enough back.

And I disagree with accumulating picks. I have said this a lot, what separates him from Tanny is the ability to get picks back. Tanny would trade a pick for a player and that's it.

Macc trades a pick for a player AND A PICK.

[Augustiniak]

1 hour ago, bealeb319 said:

You talking about the O-lineman who was supposed to be a first round pick but they got as an undrafted free agent?

tanny make it happen!  tanny would get it done!

[joewilly12]

Its 4 Sheldon Richardson is still a NY Jet 

[Integrity28]

1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Why should he settle below value? I think the Patriots really made a bad trade because they didn't get enough back.

And I disagree with accumulating picks. I have said this a lot, what separates him from Tanny is the ability to get picks back. Tanny would trade a pick for a player and that's it.

Macc trades a pick for a player AND A PICK.

Has nothing to do with the Patriots. Why do you keep bringing that up? (Rhetorical, don't respond.)

Mac has needed to move Mo or Sheldon over the past year. He has failed to do so. I'm saying he's over-estimating their value. Meaning, if he could make the trades, then he'd be making them at fair value. Not settling. Your response, like many others, makes no sense.

Mac signs 30+ year old RBs, and forfeits compensatory picks = not accumulating draft picks. He's failed to slide back in the draft for good picks. He's failed to move tradable assets for picks. He's not good at accumulating picks. 

Mac trading a pick for a player and a pick sounds good, then you look and see it's a 7th rounder. Hard to make the argument that that is "good pick accumulation".

[UnitedWhofans]

1 minute ago, joewilly12 said:

Its 4 Sheldon Richardson is still a NY Jet 

Yep. No one would pony up Wait for the deadline

[Augustiniak]

Just now, Integrity28 said:

Has nothing to do with the Patriots. Why do you keep bringing that up? (Rhetorical, don't respond.)

Mac has needed to move Mo or Sheldon over the past year. He has failed to do so. I'm saying he's over-estimating their value. Meaning, if he could make the trades, then he'd be making them at fair value. Not settling. Your response, like many others, makes no sense.

Mac signs 30+ year old RBs, and forfeits compensatory picks = not accumulating draft picks. He's failed to slide back in the draft for good picks. He's failed to move tradable assets for picks. He's not good at accumulating picks. 

Mac trading a pick for a player and a pick sounds good, then you look and see it's a 7th rounder. Hard to make the argument that that is "good pick accumulation".

maybe he doesn't feel the supreme need to accumulate picks b/c he is confident he can find guys like peake, robbie anderson, stanford, etc. in the later rounds and FA.  

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Integrity28 said:

Has nothing to do with the Patriots. Why do you keep bringing that up? (Rhetorical, don't respond.)

Mac has needed to move Mo or Sheldon over the past year. He has failed to do so. I'm saying he's over-estimating their value. Meaning, if he could make the trades, then he'd be making them at fair value. Not settling. Your response, like many others, makes no sense.

Mac signs 30+ year old RBs, and forfeits compensatory picks = not accumulating draft picks. He's failed to slide back in the draft for good picks. He's failed to move tradable assets for picks. He's not good at accumulating picks. 

Mac trading a pick for a player and a pick sounds good, then you look and see it's a 7th rounder. Hard to make the argument that that is "good pick accumulation".

And look what he did with his 7th rounders. Charone Peake and Lachlan Edwards, a budding WR and a good punter.

Mac's drafts' 6 picks

Tanny's drafts: 3-4 picks.

BIG difference

[Augustiniak]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

And look what he did with his 7th rounders. Charone Peake and Lachlan Edwards, a budding WR and a good punter.

Mac's drafts' 6 picks

Tanny's drafts: 3-4 picks.

BIG difference

right.  tanny uses picks like that on sanchez's buddy.

[Integrity28]

1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said:

And look what he did with his 7th rounders. Charone Peake and Lachlan Edwards, a budding WR and a good punter.

Mac's drafts' 6 picks

Tanny's drafts: 3-4 picks.

BIG difference

I'm not making the argument that Tanny was better, so this point is completely irrelevant. I'm comparing more to solid drafting organizations like the Baltimore, Steelers, Packers and Patriots. More picks in meaningful rounds is a constant goal of their GMs.

[SAR I]

11 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

tanny make it happen!  tanny would get it done!

It just went from "We Wish You A Merry Sanchez" to "A Year Without A Sanchez Claus".

So sad.

SAR I

[UnitedWhofans]

3 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

I'm not making the argument that Tanny was better, so this point is completely irrelevant. I'm comparing more to solid drafting organizations like the Baltimore, Steelers, Packers and Patriots. More picks in meaningful rounds is a constant goal of their GMs.

With only 7 rounds, EVERY round is a meaningful round. 

And in the 7th round, Mac has drafted Deon Simon, Lachlan Edwards, and Charone Peake. 3 players that are currently playing on the Jets right now and being productive.

I don't care where they come from or where they are drafted, if you can acquire talent, you are good.

And BTW, the Patriots just massively undersold Jamie Collins.

 

[Integrity28]

3 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

maybe he doesn't feel the supreme need to accumulate picks b/c he is confident he can find guys like peake, robbie anderson, stanford, etc. in the later rounds and FA.  

Maybe, but that's naive.

He tried to trade up to #1 overall to get the QB of the future this year. If he'd had more meaningful picks in relevant rounds, he probably could have done it. 

So please, spare me the UDFA fantasies about #4 WRs. I'd like a stud QB. Draft assets are how you get in position for one. Imagine we landed Wentz. We wouldn't have signed Fitz, wouldn't have drafted Lee, Hack, Jordan Jenkins or Justin Burris. 

None of those guys, nor any combination of those guys, will be as impactful as a great QB could be for us.

Having a surplus of draft picks = options, influence and power on draft day.

[Integrity28]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

With only 7 rounds, EVERY round is a meaningful round. 

And in the 7th round, Mac has drafted Deon Simon, Lachlan Edwards, and Charone Peake. 3 players that are currently playing on the Jets right now and being productive.

I don't care where they come from or where they are drafted, if you can acquire talent, you are good.

 

Nope. Earlier rounds are valued higher. Just wrong, wrong-ey, wrong-wrong.

[bergenjets]

3 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Well Collins got a high 3 which is essentially a 2. Richardson should get around the same, which it would be if Dallas made the deal

 

Sheldon has another year on his rookie contract. He's far more valuable than Collins who will be a FA at the end of this season.

[UnitedWhofans]

1 minute ago, Integrity28 said:

Maybe, but that's naive.

He tried to trade up to #1 overall to get the QB of the future this year. If he'd had more meaningful picks in relevant rounds, he probably could have done it. 

So please, spare me the UDFA fantasies about #4 WRs. I'd like a stud QB. Draft assets are how you get in position for one. Imagine we landed Wentz. We wouldn't have signed Fitz, wouldn't have drafted Lee, Hack, Jordan Jenkins or Justin Burris. 

None of those guys, nor any combination of those guys, will be as impactful as a great QB could be for us.

Having a surplus of draft picks = options, influence and power on draft day.

Which brings back the fallacy that Wentz plays as well here in a different situation as in Philly.

[munchmemory]

3 hours ago, Charlie Brown said:

Trading would be the best way for the Jets to make Brady ineffectual and unproductive.......

Once traded, true to Jet form, Brady never again completes a pass.

[Integrity28]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

Which brings back the fallacy that Wentz plays as well here in a different situation as in Philly.

lol, calling it a fallacy is a stretch... and completely contradictions your uber-positive schtick

@gEYno was right in calling out your contradictory nature, lololololololllolllololol

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Integrity28 said:

lol, calling it a fallacy is a stretch... and completely contradictions your uber-positive schtick

@gEYno was right in calling out your contradictory nature, lololololololllolllololol

Sigh,,,,,,My uber-positivity is about the process that the Jets are trying to do. I think its the right process.

The team is bad, but when you rebuild, its going to be bad.

The reason Macc had to sign those FA's is because if he didn't field a competitive team, he would be run out of town like Idzik was. So he signs those FAs mostly on short term deals so that they dont impede progress.

I mean, I have said this 1,000 times here. It's not rocket science

[nyjunc]

not a trade but picked up Knile Davis

 

 

[Larz]

This year, Richardson has 28 tackles and 1.5 sacks playing a combination of defensive end, defensive tackle, inside linebacker and outside linebacker. 

 

in 7 games ?  wow, that kind of production will be missed

[Integrity28]

2 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Sigh,,,,,,My uber-positivity is about the process that the Jets are trying to do. I think its the right process.

The team is bad, but when you rebuild, its going to be bad.

The reason Macc had to sign those FA's is because if he didn't field a competitive team, he would be run out of town like Idzik was. So he signs those FAs mostly on short term deals so that they dont impede progress.

I mean, I have said this 1,000 times here. It's not rocket science

This whole if/then 'run out of town' but is all manufactured. Or fallacy. No different than your 'Wentz wouldn't be the same here' theory.

Contadiction.

[Sperm Edwards]

5 hours ago, Il Mostro said:

I don't want Romo, but this is exactly the type of trade that has Jets management salivating.  As much as the Cowboys would like to have Sheldon to make their run this year,  I don't think this will happen as an in-season move.  With Romo's injury and more significantly, Jerry's big love for him, I see this trade being much more likely as an off-season deal.  There is also Romo's cap number averaging about $24 million 2017-2019. No big cap savings possible until 2018.  That's a big nut to cover and the Jets will need to trim a lot of fat to add more fat.

His cap number would be $14M next year on the Jets (or anyone he'd be traded to). The $24M figure is for Dallas, and Dallas alone. 

[cant wait]

5 hours ago, Larz said:

This year, Richardson has 28 tackles and 1.5 sacks playing a combination of defensive end, defensive tackle, inside linebacker and outside linebacker. 

 

in 7 games ?  wow, that kind of production will be missed

He's arguably the best player on the team. The point of trading sheldon would to be to upgrade the team in another area, a 2nd round pick isn't enough for him