Vic Beasley making the L. Williams pick look awful

[drdetroit]

2 minutes ago, cant wait said:

I don't know about the best player in the draft, but he was certainly the safest pick in the top 10 outside of maybe cooper. also considering williams is still just a baby, he turned 22 in june, he's got plenty of room to improve and should have a nice long career in green

what a level headed post

[bostonmajet]

8 minutes ago, OH THE PAIN said:

If you already have two good defensive lineman , why not fill another need ?

Because you draft BPA (or trade him) in the first instead of reaching for need; because it was obvious we weren't keeping both Mo and Sheldon; and, just to piss off Jet fans everywhere...

[drdetroit]

1 minute ago, bostonmajet said:

Because you draft BPA (or trade him) in the first instead of reaching for need; because it was obvious we weren't keeping both Mo and Sheldon; and, just to piss off Jet fans everywhere...

The bad move wasn't drafting Leonard Williams - it was actually a very good move.  The bad move was giving WIlk that retarded contract afterwards.  

 

 

[bostonmajet]

4 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

The bad move wasn't drafting Leonard Williams - it was actually a very good move.  The bad move was giving WIlk that retarded contract afterwards.  

 

 

Could be; hopefully Mo has a break out year next year being healthy 'and stuff'.

[drdetroit]

1 minute ago, bostonmajet said:

Could be; hopefully Mo has a break out year next year being healthy 'and stuff'.

Mo got his money.  It looks like Bowles is back for another season so Mo will mail it in royally next year too.  Ugh.

[cant wait]

2 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

Mo got his money.  It looks like Bowles is back for another season so Mo will mail it in royally next year too.  Ugh.

mo needs a legitimate pass rusher next to him so this defense can start making some plays. this team has done an awful job putting together a cohesive roster and defensive scheme. they don't have good enough linebackers to play either a 4-3 or 3-4, but instead they have 3 pro bowl 5-tech DE's and often are playing out of position. bowles needs to commit to a 3-4 , trade sheldon, and go heavy after linebackers this year

[drdetroit]

11 minutes ago, cant wait said:

mo needs a legitimate pass rusher next to him so this defense can start making some plays. this team has done an awful job putting together a cohesive roster and defensive scheme. they don't have good enough linebackers to play either a 4-3 or 3-4, but instead they have 3 pro bowl 5-tech DE's and often are playing out of position. bowles needs to commit to a 3-4 , trade sheldon, and go heavy after linebackers this year

Mo has given zero effort this year.  He can't even be bothered with showing up to meetings he's only making $19 million in salary 

[Jet Nut]

12 hours ago, detectivekimble said:

What the **** are you talking about?  He's not an explosive player.  He's a power player.  He was compared to Kevin Williams coming out.  Reggie White my ass.  He's not even close to the athlete that JJ Watt is.

And "incredible" is a stretch.  His grade puts him 10th amongst 3-4 ends this season.

What is he talking about?
What are you talking about?  Hes not explosive?  Again, do you watch games?  You should stop reading whatever you read and watch the games. 

You wanted Gurley, didnt you?  

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, drdetroit said:

Mo has given zero effort this year.  He can't even be bothered with showing up to meetings he's only making $19 million in salary 

Hes probably still feeling the broken leg.

Bet hes different next season

[Mogglez]

11 hours ago, cant wait said:

I don't know about the best player in the draft, but he was certainly the safest pick in the top 10 outside of maybe cooper. also considering williams is still just a baby, he turned 22 in june, he's got plenty of room to improve and should have a nice long career in green

For me, it was either him or Winston and no one was close to those guys.  I liked Cooper more than I liked Mariota and Gurley finished up my top 5.

1-2 (either order): Williams and Winston

3: Cooper

4: Mariota

5: Gurley

Pretty fair, if I say so myself. I had Beasley in my top 10 at 7, 8, or 9, going back and forth with Fowler and Melvin Gordon.

Williams has even scratched the surface of how good he can be, and we should all be excited about that. It's still up to him to max himself out, but nothing he's done so far has given me reason to doubt him. I love the kid and already bought his jersey.  There's a reason that reports have already come out and said that the team views him as "untouchable".  He's a guy you keep around for his career.

[detectivekimble]

19 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Wow! Look! More wrong!

• SELECTED BY: Jets
• ROUND: 1
• PICK (OVERALL): 6 (6)

PICK ANALYSIS:

"Williams was the best player in the draft regardless of position. If you're the Jets, you had to take him. The sky's the limit with this kid. He's stout against the run and athletic as can be." -- Mike Mayock

If TEAMS thought he was Reggie White, he wouldn't have dropped to number 6. 

Mike Mayock?  Really?  This is the same dude that said Blaine Gabbert was worth the #1 pick.  He also doesn't work for an NFL team.  And it doesn't matter Mayock said that he's "athletic as can be."  That's why they have combine testing and the combine testing clearly shows that he isn't that explosive:

29.5" vertical

106.0" broad jump

7.59 second three cone drill

4.53 20 yard shuttle

JJ Watt:

37" vertical

120.0" broad jump

6.88 second three cone drill

4.21 20 yard shuttle

Aaron Donald:

32" vertical

116.0" broad jump

7.11 second three cone drill

4.39 20 yard shuttle

Williams wasn't a top performer in any of the explosion drills.

All your article says is that ONE scout said he has position versatility like Reggie White.  It doesn't say he has Reggie White's ability.  Guess what, Wilkerson also has Reggie White's position versatility.  Williams has elite power and hands.  That's what he is, not some explosive off the snap player.  So get out of here with your bullsh*t.

[detectivekimble]

10 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

What is he talking about?
What are you talking about?  Hes not explosive?  Again, do you watch games?  You should stop reading whatever you read and watch the games. 

You wanted Gurley, didnt you?  

Take off your green goggles.  JJ Watt and Aaron Donald are explosive.  Leonard Williams is not.  He's a power player with great hands, like a Kris Jenkins.

I'm not saying he's not good, I'm just saying what type of player he is.  You arguing that he's an explosive player just makes you look like a fool.

[dbatesman]

22 minutes ago, detectivekimble said:

Take off your green goggles.  JJ Watt and Aaron Donald are explosive.  Leonard Williams is not.  He's a power player with great hands, like a Kris Jenkins.

I'm not saying he's not good, I'm just saying what type of player he is.  You arguing that he's an explosive player just makes you look like a fool.

Ok, now you've said it. So what?

[UnitedWhofans]

Only Jets fans, ONLY JETS FANS, would critique their best defensive player and one of the few showing any effort.

[JetFanWithNOPSL2017]

Lets see...

Who knows more about a draft????


1. Mike Mayock
2. Mike Maccagnan
3. Mel Kiper
4. Todd McShay
5. Nolan Nawrocki
6. detectivekimble

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, JetFanWithNOPSL2017 said:

Lets see...

Who knows more about a draft????


1. Mike Mayock
2. Mike Maccagnan
3. Mel Kiper
4. Todd McShay
5. Nolan Nawrocki
6. detectivekimble

That's what I said to JiF about most draft experts mocking Darron Lee in the first round. Same principle

[Sperm Edwards]

13 hours ago, bostonmajet said:

Because you draft BPA (or trade him) in the first instead of reaching for need; because it was obvious we weren't keeping both Mo and Sheldon; and, just to piss off Jet fans everywhere...

Though I didn't at the time, I now see this as a need-pick as well, like all his other picks. It simply wasn't an immediate need pick, but he figured at the latest it would be a need the following year, since he'd been trying to unload Mo since before the draft obviously had plans to move him in 2016 as well.

It appears (from his own actions) that he rationalized such a presumably non-need player because he likely figured at worst he'd trade Mo for at least a #1 pick a year later, and in doing so recoup/replace the 1st round pick he used on Williams. He could then theoretically use that subsequent #1 pick on a more immediate need player, and lower the DL positional cap cost in the process. Except it didn't turn out that way because no one was forking over a #1 pick for the privilege of paying Mo so handsomely.

So Williams was a need in 2015 in the same way the Hackenberg pick was a need, but it was a need pick for 2017 (or so he'd hoped). A need-based pick for a year later is still a need-based pick.

[detectivekimble]

7 minutes ago, JetFanWithNOPSL2017 said:

Lets see...

Who knows more about a draft????


1. Mike Mayock
2. Mike Maccagnan
3. Mel Kiper
4. Todd McShay
5. Nolan Nawrocki
6. detectivekimble

These are numbers, not opinions.  You don't need Mike Maycock to interpret them.

29.5" vertical

106.0" broad jump

7.59 second three cone drill

4.53 20 yard shuttle

But, if you want to argue that they're "explosive," go ahead.  

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, detectivekimble said:

These are numbers, not opinions.  You don't need Mike Maycock to interpret them.

29.5" vertical

106.0" broad jump

7.59 second three cone drill

4.53 20 yard shuttle

But, if you want to argue that they're "explosive," go ahead.  

For that body size, they seem to be pretty well to me.

[detectivekimble]

1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said:

For that body size, they seem to be pretty well to me.

They're average for that size.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, detectivekimble said:

They're average for that size.

Maybe so, but he gives effort. Which can make him outperform the measurables. 

But again, it seems that some Jets fans can't seem to grasp the fact that players can have good seasons on bad teams

[Bleedin Green]

10 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Though I didn't at the time, I now see this as a need-pick as well, like all his other picks. It simply wasn't an immediate need pick, but he figured at the latest it would be a need the following year, since he'd been trying to unload Mo since before the draft obviously had plans to move him in 2016 as well.

It appears (from his own actions) that he rationalized such a presumably non-need player because he likely figured at worst he'd trade Mo for at least a #1 pick a year later, and in doing so recoup/replace the 1st round pick he used on Williams. He could then theoretically use that subsequent #1 pick on a more immediate need player, and lower the DL positional cap cost in the process. Except it didn't turn out that way because no one was forking over a #1 pick for the privilege of paying Mo so handsomely.

So Williams was a need in 2015 in the same way the Hackenberg pick was a need, but it was a need pick for 2017 (or so he'd hoped). A need-based pick for a year later is still a need-based pick.

It's the Jets.  Every single position is a need... always.

[19andOhWait]

one of the worst posts I've ever seen on this forum. get a hold of yourself Namath.

3.5 sacks against Paxton in week 5
3 sacks against Jared Goff last week 

big whoop

 

[jeremy2020]

On 12/12/2016 at 6:24 PM, Larz said:

If we picked beasley he would either be in jail, on IR or playing TE

Someone would have to tell the Jets coaches what a TE is first...

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, detectivekimble said:

Take off your green goggles.  JJ Watt and Aaron Donald are explosive.  Leonard Williams is not.  He's a power player with great hands, like a Kris Jenkins.

I'm not saying he's not good, I'm just saying what type of player he is.  You arguing that he's an explosive player just makes you look like a fool.

Green goggles?  What does Watt and his level of explosiveness have to do with Williams?  How does that change Williams into a power guy?  Youre wrong, sorry.  

And trust me, if you want to argue that hes not an explosive player, Im not the one who looks like a fool.

[Scoop24]

I'll take my 22 year old franchise player and who has been nothing but good or better since he got here . No disrespect to Beasley 

[detectivekimble]

3 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Green goggles?  What does Watt and his level of explosiveness have to do with Williams?  How does that change Williams into a power guy?  Youre wrong, sorry.  

And trust me, if you want to argue that hes not an explosive player, Im not the one who looks like a fool.

Dude, he throws guys out of the way and bullrushes people.  He doesn't beat people with explosion or quickness.  I posted his official combine numbers.  You're wrong.  You're arguing with facts at this point.  You have no facts to support your position.

I'm sure you're going to start arguing about how measurables don't matter and the combine means nothing and all that good stuff now, since you don't have anything to support your position.

[detectivekimble]

4 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Maybe so, but he gives effort. Which can make him outperform the measurables. 

But again, it seems that some Jets fans can't seem to grasp the fact that players can have good seasons on bad teams

Sure, and I'm not arguing that he's not physically talented.  He's got freakish power and hands, just like Kris Jenkins.  And Jenkins was a much better player than Wilkerson and Richardson, who are more "explosive."

[drdetroit]

4 hours ago, 19andOhWait said:

one of the worst posts I've ever seen on this forum. get a hold of yourself Namath.

3.5 sacks against Paxton in week 5
3 sacks against Jared Goff last week 

big whoop

 

That's because Paxton Lynch and Jared Goff both have the pocket awareness of Helen Keller

[Mogglez]

7 hours ago, detectivekimble said:

If TEAMS thought he was Reggie White, he wouldn't have dropped to number 6. 

Mike Mayock?  Really?  This is the same dude that said Blaine Gabbert was worth the #1 pick.  He also doesn't work for an NFL team.  And it doesn't matter Mayock said that he's "athletic as can be."  That's why they have combine testing and the combine testing clearly shows that he isn't that explosive:

29.5" vertical

106.0" broad jump

7.59 second three cone drill

4.53 20 yard shuttle

JJ Watt:

37" vertical

120.0" broad jump

6.88 second three cone drill

4.21 20 yard shuttle

Aaron Donald:

32" vertical

116.0" broad jump

7.11 second three cone drill

4.39 20 yard shuttle

Williams wasn't a top performer in any of the explosion drills.

All your article says is that ONE scout said he has position versatility like Reggie White.  It doesn't say he has Reggie White's ability.  Guess what, Wilkerson also has Reggie White's position versatility.  Williams has elite power and hands.  That's what he is, not some explosive off the snap player.  So get out of here with your bullsh*t.

It's right in the first line of the article: "Some have compared him to the great Reggie White, others think he's more like one of White's former teammates, Jerome Brown".  

Just because you don't like or agree with something doesn't mean it never happened or isn't true.

You know more than Mayock? Lmfaooooooo. Anyone who compares Leo to Kris Jenkins, who was a pure NT, probably a good 70-80 pounds heavier than Leo, and also without a speck of his athleticism, is clueless so YOU get out of here with YOUR bullsh*t.  Those two aren't even close to the same type of player. 

F*ck the numbers.  The tape from college and the pros says he is an explosive player.  You and the other doofus who started this thread are the only two numbskulls arguing this.  Go ahead though, keep reciting those numbers like they mean something. Numbers said Gholston was going to be an animal and instead he played like a deformed child who was the product of years of inbreeding. Numbers. Lolololol.

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, detectivekimble said:

Dude, he throws guys out of the way and bullrushes people.  He doesn't beat people with explosion or quickness.  I posted his official combine numbers.  You're wrong.  You're arguing with facts at this point.  You have no facts to support your position.

I'm sure you're going to start arguing about how measurables don't matter and the combine means nothing and all that good stuff now, since you don't have anything to support your position.

One thing you have completely wrong is what I'm going to argue in regards to measurables.  I watch him play, know what his game is.  You can think whatever you want, there really isnt a point to going on when we have people saying he isnt this or that.  

As far as support for my position, I'm not the only one who thinks it.  I hear it every post game show.  Hint, no one agrees with you

 

[cant wait]

10 hours ago, detectivekimble said:

If TEAMS thought he was Reggie White, he wouldn't have dropped to number 6. 

Mike Mayock?  Really?  This is the same dude that said Blaine Gabbert was worth the #1 pick.  He also doesn't work for an NFL team.  And it doesn't matter Mayock said that he's "athletic as can be."  That's why they have combine testing and the combine testing clearly shows that he isn't that explosive:

29.5" vertical

106.0" broad jump

7.59 second three cone drill

4.53 20 yard shuttle

JJ Watt:

37" vertical

120.0" broad jump

6.88 second three cone drill

4.21 20 yard shuttle

Aaron Donald:

32" vertical

116.0" broad jump

7.11 second three cone drill

4.39 20 yard shuttle

Williams wasn't a top performer in any of the explosion drills.

All your article says is that ONE scout said he has position versatility like Reggie White.  It doesn't say he has Reggie White's ability.  Guess what, Wilkerson also has Reggie White's position versatility.  Williams has elite power and hands.  That's what he is, not some explosive off the snap player.  So get out of here with your bullsh*t.

Watt is a freak though, he's more athletic and explosive than most LB's in the league even. Donald is kind of unique too, given he's a bit shorter and more compact... suh is the guy I think of when you say explosive DT (35" vert @ 307 lb) and dontari poe but he's more of a pure nose. Williams is probably closer to dareus, a little taller and leaner but similar measurables overall

[detectivekimble]

3 hours ago, Mogglez said:

It's right in the first line of the article: "Some have compared him to the great Reggie White, others think he's more like one of White's former teammates, Jerome Brown".  

Just because you don't like or agree with something doesn't mean it never happened or isn't true.

You know more than Mayock? Lmfaooooooo. Anyone who compares Leo to Kris Jenkins, who was a pure NT, probably a good 70-80 pounds heavier than Leo, and also without a speck of his athleticism, is clueless so YOU get out of here with YOUR bullsh*t.  Those two aren't even close to the same type of player. 

F*ck the numbers.  The tape from college and the pros says he is an explosive player.  You and the other doofus who started this thread are the only two numbskulls arguing this.  Go ahead though, keep reciting those numbers like they mean something. Numbers said Gholston was going to be an animal and instead he played like a deformed child who was the product of years of inbreeding. Numbers. Lolololol.

The only person who says **** the numbers -- which are an objective measure of athleticism -- is the person who has nothing to back up his opinion, of course.  You can't argue with the numbers, dumbass.  The combine is just held for sh*ts and giggles, right?  No, the numbers said Gholston was a very good athlete, not that he would be a great player.  If the numbers showed that Williams was explosive, you'd be using them to back your point up.  But you can't argue with numbers, so you want to argue that they mean nothing.  

Also, Kris Jenkins was about 315 coming out of Maryland, hardly 80 pounds heavier than Leonard Williams and with very similar measurables to Williams.  Once again, you have no idea what you're talking about.

It says SOME have compared him to Reggie White.  Who?  It's just some hack writer looking to write a sexy story.  Sorry, you lose.

 

 

[detectivekimble]

3 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

One thing you have completely wrong is what I'm going to argue in regards to measurables.  I watch him play, know what his game is.  You can think whatever you want, there really isnt a point to going on when we have people saying he isnt this or that.  

As far as support for my position, I'm not the only one who thinks it.  I hear it every post game show.  Hint, no one agrees with you

 

I..I...I watch him play! The numbers can't be right!  

No one cares what YOU think.  His measurables show that he has average explosiveness for a player his size and his game also backs that up.  If he was as explosive as you say, Bowles would just line him up at 4-3 end and let him get double digit sacks.  But you know who they line up at 4-3 end?  Richardson.

[detectivekimble]

3 hours ago, Mogglez said:

It's right in the first line of the article: "Some have compared him to the great Reggie White, others think he's more like one of White's former teammates, Jerome Brown".  

Just because you don't like or agree with something doesn't mean it never happened or isn't true.

You know more than Mayock? Lmfaooooooo. Anyone who compares Leo to Kris Jenkins, who was a pure NT, probably a good 70-80 pounds heavier than Leo, and also without a speck of his athleticism, is clueless so YOU get out of here with YOUR bullsh*t.  Those two aren't even close to the same type of player. 

F*ck the numbers.  The tape from college and the pros says he is an explosive player.  You and the other doofus who started this thread are the only two numbskulls arguing this.  Go ahead though, keep reciting those numbers like they mean something. Numbers said Gholston was going to be an animal and instead he played like a deformed child who was the product of years of inbreeding. Numbers. Lolololol.

I thought Cam Newton was a lot better than Blaine Gabbert.  But, but, he's Mike Mayock! He must be right!