Thinking Outside the Box: Hackenberg

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, Mecca said:

I was contemplating this scenario a few weeks ago, and now with Osweiler essentially out in Houston, this scenario may have some real traction.

Maccagnan hails from the Texans organization. He has a connection with them as well as sharing similar draft boards.

Bill O'Brien is universally known for being the head coach that brought the best out of Hack freshman year, and was reported as loving Hackenberg prior to signing Osweiler. 

If our organization has a complete lack of confidence in him, how do we feel about flipping him to the Texans for a 3rd round pick? 

This makes sense.  Draft a guy in the 2nd and trade him for a 3rd because the fanbase doesn't like the pick.  Because nowhere is it even hinted that the organization has lost confidence in Hack.  

[NoBowles]

55 minutes ago, LionelRichie said:

Hackenburg has all of the tools to be successful.   To me the big question is whether or not he has the coaching.   I have almost zero confidence in this CS to develop a young QB.   When I read interviews with Gailey that they are waiting until the off-season to work on mechanics it makes me throw up a little in my mouth.   Why not hire Hack a personal QB coach for the entire season?   it's not like he has any other responsibility on a week to week basis.   is there all of a sudden a salary cap on the coaching staff?    

this team needs a HC with an offensive mindset and a sound D-coordinator in the worst way.   

Completely agree with this entire post.

[bostonmajet]

Why would Mac 'overspend on Hack' knowing that he would red-shirt him, and then trade him for a 3rd during his red-shirt year?

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

3 hours ago, Mecca said:

I was contemplating this scenario a few weeks ago, and now with Osweiler essentially out in Houston, this scenario may have some real traction.

Maccagnan hails from the Texans organization. He has a connection with them as well as sharing similar draft boards.

Bill O'Brien is universally known for being the head coach that brought the best out of Hack freshman year, and was reported as loving Hackenberg prior to signing Osweiler. 

If our organization has a complete lack of confidence in him, how do we feel about flipping him to the Texans for a 3rd round pick? 

Yes, but you still have to explain why Bill O'Brien picked Osweiler over Hack,  because if he thought Brock was better then what is Hack?

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

7 minutes ago, bostonmajet said:

Why would Mac 'overspend on Hack' knowing that he would red-shirt him, and then trade him for a 3rd during his red-shirt year?

same reason you get divorced, it seemed like a good ideas at the time, then you pay to get away

[bostonmajet]

2 minutes ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

same reason you get divorced, it seemed like a good ideas at the time, then you pay to get away

LOL - yes, but normally you don't get divorced during the honeymoon and normally only Hollywood stars divorce during the newlywed period.

[CrazyCarl40]

1 hour ago, LionelRichie said:

Hackenburg has all of the tools to be successful.   To me the big question is whether or not he has the coaching.   I have almost zero confidence in this CS to develop a young QB.   When I read interviews with Gailey that they are waiting until the off-season to work on mechanics it makes me throw up a little in my mouth.   Why not hire Hack a personal QB coach for the entire season?   it's not like he has any other responsibility on a week to week basis.   is there all of a sudden a salary cap on the coaching staff?    

this team needs a HC with an offensive mindset and a sound D-coordinator in the worst way.   

I'm trying to think of the last QB drafted high who needed his mechanics overhauled that found success as a starting QB in the NFL with proper coaching. I'm not sure I could come up with someone recent. 

[LionelRichie]

4 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

I'm trying to think of the last QB drafted high who needed his mechanics overhauled that found success as a starting QB in the NFL with proper coaching. I'm not sure I could come up with someone recent. 

Aaron Rodgers. 

[CrazyCarl40]

6 minutes ago, LionelRichie said:

Aaron Rodgers. 

While true, he didn't suck in college and the reviews of him becoming a decent NFL QB weren't nearly as mixed. It was fix this small problem and he should be great. With Hack it's fix this huge problem and maybe he could be okay, no one really knows. 

[JohnnyLV]

2 hours ago, flgreen said:

Not really as much practice, and coaching, as we might think.  

They can't even talk to these guys until April, when the couple of days here, and a couple of days there OTA's begin.  Once camp begins more then likely he will receive #3, or #4 QB reps.  This year there were WEEKS, that Hack only got 4-5 reps.  Once camp closes the #3 QB is relegated to playing "scout team QB".  Not even playing the Jets play book.  He impersonates the upcoming opponents play book.

Gailey said last offseason when asked why Hack wasn't getting any reps, "You can't rebuild a guys entire mechanics until the off-season, just don't have the time"    Geez, when does a young QB get real coaching under the current CBA.  

I know Hack and most young QB's hire mentors in the off-season.  Hack has another QB's brother.  These guys are pretty expensive.  With the situation in college that HC's want to run a simplified spread option O, and the situation in the NFL under the CBA, it is really difficult to develop a QB

 

You solve that by NOT signing a useless veteran and letting Hack and Petty get 90% of the 1st and 2nd team reps and 50% of the third team. QBs need reps to develop. A team needs a QB to develop to win consistently. It is a simple equation and frankly the decision needs to be out of the HC hands, because he wants the veteran to possibly win one or two more games 

[win4ever]

Why would we select a guy in the second round, especially one with a tag that he's not ready to step in, wait a whole year with him on the roster, and then sell him for less without even trying him out at QB?  Usually if you pick a Qb that isn't ready, you groom him so he does well in backup roles, and then trade him when his value is high.   It's not like we have Tom Brady at QB, we might as well wait and see what he can do before giving up on him.  

[RSJ]

The only thing the Jets should be doing is hoping O'Brien gets fired so they can beg him to come here and be the OC. 

[LionelRichie]

9 minutes ago, RSJ said:

The only thing the Jets should be doing is hoping O'Brien gets fired so they can beg him to come here and be the OC. 

How about Sean Payton paired with Bradley as DC?   It would be nice to see an offensive HC with an experienced DC.  

[RSJ]

Just now, LionelRichie said:

How about Sean Payton paired with Bradley as DC?   It would be nice to see an offensive HC with an experienced DC.  

That would be incredible. It would be just what this franchise needs imho.

[Mecca]

Do some of you really have that much faith in Hackenberg?

 

A. His mechanics are completely out of wack.

B. His on field performance had been mediocre in college

C. His decision making is terrible

D. He barely could get snaps in the pre-season and training camp and all the beat writers have alluded to how pittful he's looked.

E. Most experts had him with a 3/4 round draft grade. 

F. He was drafted on a freshman year and physical attributes, not skill.

[Mecca]

1 hour ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

Yes, but you still have to explain why Bill O'Brien picked Osweiler over Hack,  because if he thought Brock was better then what is Hack?

Rick Smith is the GM not BOB

[Powpow]

5 hours ago, Mecca said:

I was contemplating this scenario a few weeks ago, and now with Osweiler essentially out in Houston, this scenario may have some real traction.

Maccagnan hails from the Texans organization. He has a connection with them as well as sharing similar draft boards.

Bill O'Brien is universally known for being the head coach that brought the best out of Hack freshman year, and was reported as loving Hackenberg prior to signing Osweiler. 

If our organization has a complete lack of confidence in him, how do we feel about flipping him to the Texans for a 3rd round pick? 

How about Max suspends you for a week and flips you for the release of Joewilly12.  Seems like an equitable exchange considering the absurdity of this proposition.   

[Mecca]

8 hours ago, Powpow said:

How about Max suspends you for a week and flips you for the release of Joewilly12.  Seems like an equitable exchange considering the absurdity of this proposition.   

So when Hackenberg is a total bust and we miss out on the one team that may have interest in him, we look like fools? Great analysis powpow.

 

Hackenberg was an awful pick and it has nothing to do with his lack of PT this year.

[flgreen]

10 hours ago, johnnysd said:

You solve that by NOT signing a useless veteran and letting Hack and Petty get 90% of the 1st and 2nd team reps and 50% of the third team. QBs need reps to develop. A team needs a QB to develop to win consistently. It is a simple equation and frankly the decision needs to be out of the HC hands, because he wants the veteran to possibly win one or two more games 

I don't disagree with you on that.   That's what a new GM/HC will do when they are doing a rebuild.  The first year is a Mulligan to re-build the team.  By year 3 hopefully you have a team ready to compete.

The problem is owners expect a new GM to have re-built the team, and compete in year 3.  This is year 3 of this regime coming up.  It is obvious this team needs to be re-built this year.  They are starting all over pretty much.  They will have to put a competitive team out there this year, or heads will roll. IMO it's about 90% sure a vet will be brought in to win that 1 or 2 more games and perhaps save their jobs.

Very bad situation for the Jets.  

My point is that the CBA needs to be adjusted so that QB's at least can get the reps they need.  The vets in the union don't want aggressive rookies in there every day working with coaches so they can take their jobs.  Not going to vote for it.

Maybe a special rule for only QB's who are willing to come in.  The problem is in the past teams have forced players to come in by calling them "voluntary"  work outs.  If they don't volunteer, and they aren't a top draft pick, they are cut.   Maybe bring notes from their mothers that they are "really" there because they want to be.

Yes, the QB's coach will give them a laundry list of things they want them to work on with a "coach" they have paid who is not an NFL QB coach, but it is a far from sitting down with the team paid  QB coach, watching film together, then doing what he has learned with the actual WR's he is going to be playing with.

A lot of these hired QB coaches just aren't qualified to be teaching at an NFL level QB.  That's why they don't have real jobsat either an NFL, or NCAA level.

Really tough on the kids to develop. 

Don't know much about it, but perhaps this new VR technology teams are using now will help the situation 

[JohnnyLV]

10 minutes ago, flgreen said:

I don't disagree with you on that.   That's what a new GM/HC will do when they are doing a rebuild.  The first year is a Mulligan to re-build the team.  By year 3 hopefully you have a team ready to compete.

The problem is owners expect a new GM to have re-built the team, and compete in year 3.  This is year 3 of this regime coming up.  It is obvious this team needs to be re-built this year.  They are starting all over pretty much.  They will have to put a competitive team out there this year, or heads will roll. IMO it's about 90% sure a vet will be brought in to win that 1 or 2 more games and perhaps save their jobs.

Very bad situation for the Jets.  

My point is that the CBA needs to be adjusted so that QB's at least can get the reps they need.  The vets in the union don't want aggressive rookies in there every day working with coaches so they can take their jobs.  Not going to vote for it.

Maybe a special rule for only QB's who are willing to come in.  The problem is in the past teams have forced players to come in by calling them "voluntary"  work outs.  If they don't volunteer, and they aren't a top draft pick, they are cut.   Maybe bring notes from their mothers that they are "really" there because they want to be.

Yes, the QB's coach will give them a laundry list of things they want them to work on with a "coach" they have paid who is not an NFL QB coach, but it is a far from sitting down with the team paid  QB coach, watching film together, then doing what he has learned with the actual WR's he is going to be playing with.

A lot of these hired QB coaches just aren't qualified to be teaching at an NFL level QB.  That's why they don't have real jobsat either an NFL, or NCAA level.

Really tough on the kids to develop. 

Don't know much about it, but perhaps this new VR technology teams are using now will help the situation 

Yes Mawae and the other vets who insisted on the Club Med style of offseason program should be virtually shot. Not only is it killing the development of young players, it is also leading to more soft tissue injuries, there is no question of that. Back when Namath blew out his knee, soft tissue and ligament type issues were much rarer than they are now. There were more concussions and fractures but ACLs and these types of issues were WAY less common because the offseason programs and training camps just had players in better shape. Veterans came back in worse shape than they do today but 40 days of padded 2-a-days creates the muscular foundation that guards against ripping your tendons and corrective tissue apart. The Jets should be able to work with Petty and Hack as much as needed to develop them into NFL QBs. The NFL and Players Union need to seriously get back to the table and fix this

[Gangrene]

 

Apparently the Jets brain trust's reason for not playing Hack was that they were waiting until the off season to rebuild his mechanics.

Retrofitting an arm, brain, etc... So why give up on Colonel Steve Austin part 2 ? The theme music alone will be a big improvement at the meadowlands.

[Snell41]

So when Hackenberg is a total bust and we miss out on the one team that may have interest in him, we look like fools? Great analysis powpow.
 
Hackenberg was an awful pick and it has nothing to do with his lack of PT this year.

Hack was an awful pick. He can't even dress and is listed behind Bilal Powell on the depth chart. If Petty and Fitz both broke their legs you'd have a better chance seeing Bilal Powell run the option these last 2 games.

But HOU had opportunity to take Hack, and they went with Osweiler for a buttload of cash. They're not trading for Hack. No one is. We need to draft a QB this year, and pray that if he fails then maybe 3 years of Hack twiddling his thumbs makes the lightbulb go off. Probably not, but wtf other choice do we have.


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[Mecca]

1 minute ago, Snell41 said:

 

Hack was an awful pick. He can't even dress and is listed behind Bilal Powell on the depth chart. If Petty and Fitz both broke their legs you'd have a better chance seeing Bilal Powell run the option these last 2 games.

But HOU had opportunity to take Hack, and they went with Osweiler for a buttload of cash. They're not trading for Hack. No one is. We need to draft a QB this year, and pray that if he fails then maybe 3 years of Hack twiddling his thumbs makes the lightbulb go off. Probably not, but wtf other choice do we have.


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3

Yeah, I can agree with this. 

The Hackenberg pick will forever be atrocious. We know there's a very little change that we go into the season in 2017 with Petty and Hack fighting for the job. Another 4-12 season would cost Macc his job. He's not going to be stupid. He'll most likely bring in a guy like Tyrod or Glennon for another bandaid.

[jeremy2020]

16 hours ago, RESNewYork said:

Again only 21. 2018 nfl draft in two years will have QB'S coming out that will be same age as Hackenberg. But Hack will have 2 years of NFL experience

He might even have been active for a game!

[PepPep]

Anyone who wants to trade Hack for a 3rd round pick before he gets a chance to play a single snap in an actual NFL game needs to go sit in the corner and think about what they have said. 

[PepPep]

1 hour ago, Snell41 said:

 

Hack was an awful pick. He can't even dress and is listed behind Bilal Powell on the depth chart. If Petty and Fitz both broke their legs you'd have a better chance seeing Bilal Powell run the option these last 2 games.

But HOU had opportunity to take Hack, and they went with Osweiler for a buttload of cash. They're not trading for Hack. No one is. We need to draft a QB this year, and pray that if he fails then maybe 3 years of Hack twiddling his thumbs makes the lightbulb go off. Probably not, but wtf other choice do we have.


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In the words of The Dude- "Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man."

The Jets brass and CS took a very strict approach to the QB situation for this season.

Fitz is the starter. Geno is the backup. Petty is third string. Hack is red-shirted.

And throughout the season, the Jets stuck to their guns. Fitz was awful but they were committed to him as starter. When he got hurt, Geno came in- the backup. When Geno got hurt, Fitz was the starter. Once the Jets were out of playoff contention, Petty got the nod (now playing 2nd string with Geno on IR). If Petty gets hurt, Fitz will play and the Jets will dress Hack as backup. None of this has gone as planned, but the Jets have stuck to their guns.

Hack is the future. The Jets are doing the right thing bringing him up slow. He is a young kid with a ton of potential and ONE season on the bench is nothing when it comes to being prepared to play QB in the NFL. You can argue that he was an awful pick if you want, but your argument has zero merit simply b/c he has not been given an opportunity to play. Furthermore, this was not a flyer that Macc took in the draft. This was not a luxury pick. This was a carefully scouted, calculated selection based off value and need. It will be a bad pick once Hack proves to be a bust. Until then, any argument otherwise has very little merit.