In college Brett Favre had a lower completion percentage than guess who?

[jetstream23]

37 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Dan Marino 57.6%

You see....if he had only been 58.1% the Jets would have drafted him.

[k-met57]

Just now, Villain The Foe said:

And yet that doesnt look like 56% or lower. The thread clearly says:

"In college Brett Favre had a lower completion percentage than guess who?". 

 

Please, find me a person who also had numbers like favre and became a HOF'er. 

 

Now im not saying that it's impossible. But over the dozens of Franchise to starter level QB's over the past 30 years you guys found 1 person....and he happens to be an exception to the rule. 

 

I'll wait. 

seriously? 56% vs 57%? or are you saying that Stafford is not a HOF'er? i have no interest in arguing Josh Allen becoming Brett Favre who is one of the greatest ever...but your post was not arguing Josh Allen wont be a HOF...it was arguing Josh Allen cant play. not even sure you know what you are arguing.

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

lemme flip this on you:

Todd Marinovich 61.6

Blaine Gabbert 60.6

of coursse according to the number****ers both these guys are HOF's... 

I’m just gonna say it. Josh Allen is the most accurate quarterback I’ve ever seen now. 

[Dcat]

26 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

Are we just naming QBs with a worse completion % to prove Allen is good...and then also naming QBs with a better completion % to prove that stats are dumb? 

Either way, I want in. 

 

“Joe Flacco”

nobody is "proving" or trying to "prove" anything.  Just pointing out that relying nearly exclusively on this one  stat is short-sighted, negligent and frankly, dumb.

[ZachEY]

4 minutes ago, k-met57 said:

Matt Stafford has a 57% career completion percentage in college. go again.

Stafford still completed over 60% in his final year, and continuously trended upwards.  5% higher than Allen in his final year.  So, Allen would need to improve upon the remote exception you've found, who has one playoff appearance/loss in 9 seasons while throwing to one of the most athletically gifted receivers ever to play the game.  In other words, Stafford proves nothing.

[jmat321]

8 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Really?  25 years ago Reid and Gruden were nobody’s 

At the time Mike Holmgren was highly regarded, was Bill Walsh's hand picked QB coach (mainly because he was Steve Young's college coach).  He knew how to assemble an offensive coaching staff and develop QBs.  IMO - the Jets do not have the infrastructure to develop a Josh Allen.  Nor do I think Allen has the personality of a Josh Rosen.  i.e. - Rosen is assertive and confident enough that he could persuade ownership to make coaching changes.  

[k-met57]

6 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Guys here already know Allen will suck in the nfl based off his completion %

because every player with the same completion % in college becomes the same player in the pros.

[Dcat]

12 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Daryle Lamonica  46.9

of course.  The guy never threw a short pass in his life.  I loved the Mad Bomber.  

[Philc1]

1 minute ago, k-met57 said:

seriously? 56% vs 57%? or are you saying that Stafford is not a HOF'er? i have no interest in arguing Josh Allen becoming Brett Favre who is one of the greatest ever...but your post was not arguing Josh Allen wont be a HOF...it was arguing Josh Allen cant play. not even sure you know what you are arguing.

Allen killed he Senior Bowl playing against defenders he will again see in the nfl but no way can he ever be good in the nfl. 

[jetstream23]

2 of 3 passing for 23 yards = 67% Completion

1 of 2 passing for 65 yards, 1 TD = 50% Completion (....aaaaand the incompletion was a drop)

#Numbers

We can present numbers any way we want to prove whatever point we want.

[k-met57]

Just now, TeddEY said:

Stafford still completed over 60% in his final year, and continuously trended upwards.  5% higher than Allen in his final year.  So, Allen would need to improve upon the remote exception you've found, who has one playoff appearance/loss in 9 seasons while throwing to one of the most athletically gifted receivers ever to play the game.  In other words, Stafford proves nothing.

and yet you would drive to detroit to pick him and up bring him here if he were to be our QB.

[ZachEY]

5 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

I really triggered the Baker Manziel ball washers 

I'll wait while you find my pro-Mayfield posts...

[jetstream23]

[Philc1]

1 minute ago, jmat321 said:

At the time Mike Holmgren was highly regarded, was Bill Walsh's hand picked QB coach (mainly because he was Steve Young's college coach).  He knew how to assemble an offensive coaching staff and develop QBs.  IMO - the Jets do not have the infrastructure to develop a Josh Allen.  Nor do I think Allen has the personality of a Josh Rosen.  i.e. - Rosen is assertive and confident enough that he could persuade ownership to make coaching changes.  

Holmgren was known at that time but Reid and Gruden were unknowns

[Villain The Foe]

Just now, k-met57 said:

seriously? 56% vs 57%? or are you saying that Stafford is not a HOF'er? i have no interest in arguing Josh Allen becoming Brett Favre who is one of the greatest ever...but your post was not arguing Josh Allen wont be a HOF...it was arguing Josh Allen cant play. not even sure you know what you are arguing.

K-met, Throwing 57% at Georgia is not the same as throwing 56% at Wyoming or less than 56% at U Southern Miss. 

Also, Stafford lost just 9 games in 3 full seasons playing division I football and won all of his bowl games. 

It's not the same k-met. 

 

[jetstream23]

[jmat321]

Just now, Philc1 said:

Holmgren was known at that time but Reid and Gruden were unknowns

Holmgren knew them and knew they were competent.  

[slimjasi]

53 minutes ago, Dcat said:

so did Joe Montana in his 3 years starting at Notre Dame.

 

						Passing
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	TD	Int	Rate
1975	Notre Dame	Ind		QB	7	28	66	42.4	507	7.7	3.4	4	8	102.7
1977	Notre Dame	Ind		QB	9	99	189	52.4	1604	8.5	7.7	11	8	134.4
1978	Notre Dame	Ind		QB	11	141	260	54.2	2010	7.7	6.9	10	9	124.9
Career	Notre Dame					268	515	52.0	4121	8.0	6.8	25	25	125.6

Totally different era, tho. Completion percentages were considerably lower across the board. 

Same thing (to a lesser extent) with Favre. 

[k-met57]

Just now, Villain The Foe said:

K-met, Throwing 57% at Georgia is not the same as throwing 56% at Wyoming or less than 56% at U Southern Miss. 

Also, Stafford lost just 9 games in 3 full seasons playing division I football and won all of his bowl games. 

It's not the same k-met. 

 

Doesnt that work both ways?? playing with top D1 recruits in Georgia around you vs Wyoming? Carson Wentz completed like 63% of his passes in college....considering he was an MVP frontrunner in the NFL....should he have been killing that low level conference competition to the tune of say 70%?

[Dcat]

gotta love this site.  

Pitchforks over Allen are out there and waiting because of one thing: his completion percentage.  Tell me that's not extraordinarily stupid.  It's a negative stat for him for sure.  But JN treats it as the only important factor.  It's just one of many.  And I do not want Allen over the other 3, but the logic around these parts is flat out dumb.  And when it's pointed out that many QBs with good college completion % actually suck and many through history with low completion % have been brilliant, you guys get all pissy and sarcastic.  Why?  Because those who are looking at completion percentage only might be starting to realize that they need to expand their evaluations beyond that and it is pretty silly to rely exclusively on that one talking point..

[Jetsplayer21]

9 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

But we can’t compare Allen to the dozens of qbs who had sub 60% completion in college who played well in the nfl but ofcourse logic dictates Mayfield = the two short qbs who actually were good in the nfl

Lol there are thousands of former college wbs who had sub 60% completion average in their college career. Most of them are working at subway now. Its not just the completion % with Allen but another of issues he needs to develop. Why many put Allen as the “ boom or bust “ pick Who likely needs to sit a yr and develop Just like Christian hackenberg Who is still “ developing. “  

[jetstream23]

I'll take Josh Allen if a reincarnated Bill Walsh comes with him to coach.

[Philc1]

1 minute ago, jmat321 said:

Holmgren knew them and knew they were competent.  

Ok and if Bates is semi-decent he might be able to develop a qb.  Unless you think Todd Bowles rock hard discipline is going to get Mayfield’s drinking and attitude under control

[k-met57]

Just now, Dcat said:

gotta love this site.  

Pitchforks over Allen are out there and waiting because of one thing: his completion percentage.  Tell me that's not extraordinarily stupid.  It's a negative stat for him for sure.  But JN treats it as the only important factor.  It's just one of many.  And I do not want Allen over the other 3, but the logic around these parts is flat out dumb.  And when it's pointed out that many QBs with good college completion % actually suck and many through history with low completion % have been brilliant, you guys get all pissy and sarcastic.  Why?  Because those who are looking at completion percentage only might be starting to realize that they need to expand their evaluations beyond that and it is pretty silly to rely exclusively on that one talking point..

its PTSD from Hackenberg. If we draft Allen and he becomes a franchise QB, no one will look at completion % again.

[Dcat]

13 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Guys, stats from 30 years ago are irrelevant. You have no understand that right? The game has changed.

of course it has.  But that doesn't render those stats as irrelevant. Not at all. Particularly in the college game.

[ZachEY]

5 minutes ago, Dcat said:

EY, the point of all this is to demonstrate that completion percentage is one of many metrics.  People here consider it to be paramount and above all else, sometimes to the point that nothing else matters to them.  So go ahead and ridicule Phil all you want (I know, it's like shooting fish in a barrel), but the point he and I are making is valid.  And I don't even want Allen.  He's #4 on my preference list. 

So there you go.  For a non-supporter of Josh Allen like myself to feel compelled to defend him from you completion percentage junkies on this message board is pathetic.  It's an important stat, but it doesn't trump everything else.  (Are we permitted to use the word "trump"?  Don't want to violate board politics rules)

Now lets go get Rosen. Or Mayfield.

I understand what the "point" is.  But, completion percentage X starts is pretty damn reliable.  And, it has been for a long time now.  I'm willing to bet that if similar analyses were run at the time of Marino/Favre/Namath/Montana, 60% would no longer be the #.

So, the Brett Favre arguments have almost no, but at least some merit on the surface.  My point was in trying to make the argument by suggesting that bad players have high completion percentages.  The data doesn't work like that, and suggesting it does is either trolling, or more likely, being fundamentally ignorant as to how it works.

And, ultimately, because the data does strongly correlate, I'd rather him prove me wrong on another team, and be the exception, than prove me right on my team, and cost us years.  Honestly, it's not all that different from two get-rich strategies, 1) Hard Work, 2) Win Lottery.  You absolutely can win the lottery, but your a hell of a lot less likely to be successful than by working hard.

[Philc1]

Hack has poisoned the minds of Jets fans.  Now having prototypical size and athleticism is a bad thing

[Villain The Foe]

4 minutes ago, k-met57 said:

Doesnt that work both ways?? playing with top D1 recruits in Georgia around you vs Wyoming? Carson Wentz completed like 63% of his passes in college....considering he was an MVP frontrunner in the NFL....should he have been killing that low level conference competition to the tune of say 70%?

Wentz was killing it. You know what's more important than his 63% completion rate? The fact that Wentz only lost 3 games in his college career and absolutely dominated his division. This is how you become the 2nd overall pick bro. 

You dont go from that, to thinking that a guy who completed just 56% of his passes, lost 16 games, didnt dominate his conference, folded against tougher competition and didnt win all his bowl games suddenly deserves the 3rd overall pick in the draft. 

 

Context my friend. 

[k-met57]

1 minute ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Lol there are thousands of former college wbs who had sub 60% completion average in their college career. Most of them are working at subway now. Its not just the completion % with Allen but another of issues he needs to develop. Why many put Allen as the “ boom or bust “ pick Who likely needs to sit a yr and develop Just like Christian hackenberg Who is still “ developing. “  

every college QB given the option should sit and develop for a year. the game is so different, and there is much asked of NFL QB's...there is no QB in this draft that can start day 1 and be an upper tier QB. You could argue Darnold is the most ready, and Cleveland already named Taylor the starter...not...going into camp....week 1.

[ZachEY]

8 minutes ago, k-met57 said:

and yet you would drive to detroit to pick him and up bring him here if he were to be our QB.

I guess you're just gonna skip over the 1st have of my post, because it's inconvenient for your argument?

[Philc1]

4 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Lol there are thousands of former college wbs who had sub 60% completion average in their college career. Most of them are working at subway now. Its not just the completion % with Allen but another of issues he needs to develop. Why many put Allen as the “ boom or bust “ pick Who likely needs to sit a yr and develop Just like Christian hackenberg Who is still “ developing. “  

Hack busted because he’s not a bright guy who can learn a complex NFL playbook.  Ditto for Petty

 

All I’ve heard of Allen is he’s an intelligent kid who even graduated early

[ZachEY]

17 minutes ago, CTM said:

I don't know that, what I do know is that a poor college completion %, particularly when there is no improvement YOY, generally means they won't be able to complete passes in the NFL either.

It's hopeless that folks will understand this.

[dbatesman]

1 minute ago, Philc1 said:

Hack has poisoned the minds of Jets fans.  Now having prototypical size and athleticism is a bad thing

if the number****ers were in chardge, Jets would draft a geriatric lesbian with a club foot (as long as she completed 60.1%, of course,)

[Jetsplayer21]

1 minute ago, k-met57 said:

every college QB given the option should sit and develop for a year. the game is so different, and there is much asked of NFL QB's...there is no QB in this draft that can start day 1 and be an upper tier QB. You could argue Darnold is the most ready, and Cleveland already named Taylor the starter...not...going into camp....week 1.

I agree. But all the experts seem to agree Allen is MUCH farther behind being ready than the 3. 

[Philc1]

2 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Wentz was killing it. You know what's more important than his 63% completion rate? The fact that Wentz only lost 3 games in his college career and absolutely dominated his division. This is how you become the 2nd overall pick bro. 

You dont go from that, to thinking that a guy who completed just 56% of his passes, lost 16 games, didnt dominate his conference, folded against tougher competition and didnt win all his bowl games suddenly deserves the 3rd overall pick in the draft. 

 

Context my friend. 

And most of the posters here didn’t want Wentz two years ago they wanted Lynch