Jets highly unlikely to sign Anderson

[choon328]

5 hours ago, genot said:

Choon has always hated Robby. If he had 2000 yds receiving, he's say they were all yards in garbage time.

100% true about my disdain for Robby but it doesn't make my argument invalid.  I was correct in my assertion last off-season that the Jets should've traded Robby and signed John Brown. Some of RA's catches impressed me this past season but again he's wildly inconsistent.  He's at a point where he's not going to get better then what he's shown.  His skillset has been pretty consistent.  Great deep threat with below average ability to get open any other way. That has not changed and won't change. Someone said Donte Stallworth and that was a great comparison.  Some of you guys want to compare him with Randy Moss and that's ridiculous.  Im assuming those people have only watched Randy Moss highlight reels and nothing else. 

[genot]

3 minutes ago, choon328 said:

Anderson would've been the 4th or 5th option on the Chiefs this year. 

There's no way to know that. i mean, no way. He might have been targeted less, but he would have averaged 20 yards a catch. You can't teach speed. Im not comparing the two, but look at what Hill's speed did at the end of the super bowl. Crowder is a helluva WR, it's not a surprise what he did. Why you mentioned Griffin and DT, i don't know. Griffin had one good game against the Redskins, and DT, was so so. I don't get your hatred for Robby. Are you the cop that pulled him over down in Florida.

[Kevin L]

4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

The "he was hurt by his QB" argument falls flat for me.  We have a 4-year sample size on Robby.  His catch rate in those 4 years were 54 %, 55 %, 53 %, and 54 %.  Very consistent across all QB's. 

He is what he is.  You don't pay $13M+ per for a guy who once almost got 1,000 yards.

Catch rate is a somewhat misleading stat. If a QB throws 10 feet over a WRs head, it's obviously impossible for the receiver to catch it but it still counts as a target and a 0% catch rate.

I like Robby, but I agree he hasn't shown enough to get $13-15 millon.

[Jetsfan80]

6 minutes ago, Kevin L said:

Catch rate is a somewhat misleading stat. If a QB throws 10 feet over a WRs head, it's obviously impossible for the receiver to catch it but it still counts as a target and a 0% catch rate.

I like Robby, but I agree he hasn't shown enough to get $13-15 millon.

 

This gets washed out through sample size.  If Robby was getting overthrown by 10 feet all the time for 4 straight years by multiple different QBs, that would have been noticed by now.  

[genot]

13 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

The difference is you can pay someone like Lazard or Allison 6 Mill a year and possibly even get 2 of them for the price of Robby at 13.5... He is not worth it. Maybe its bad QB play... but all of those games were with Darnold at various points throughout the year... The bigger point is that Robby has had years to prove his worth and in his defining year he disappeared at times. At 13.5 Mill a year you need to be spending that on a player that makes a difference. Robby has not proven he can. I like him... I said as much... but Jets need difference makers... not burners earning top WR money... 8-10 a year... understandable... 12 is an overpay.... 13-15 is just spending dumb money... 

Not trying to reup Robby before the season ended is dumb. Some team is going to offer him big bucks. They look at his ability to blow up a defense, and consider what our situation has been at Qb, and with our offensive line, and conclude that they could get more out of him. They very well could be right.

[choon328]

16 minutes ago, genot said:

There's no way to know that. i mean, no way. He might have been targeted less, but he would have averaged 20 yards a catch. You can't teach speed. Im not comparing the two, but look at what Hill's speed did at the end of the super bowl. Crowder is a helluva WR, it's not a surprise what he did. Why you mentioned Griffin and DT, i don't know. Griffin had one good game against the Redskins, and DT, was so so. I don't get your hatred for Robby. Are you the cop that pulled him over down in Florida.

I don't think Robby is a person who makes great choices and I think that's pretty evident.  Put $40 million in that same person's hands and see what happens.  He was on his best behavior in 2019 with a payday looming.  Prior to that he was a knucklehead who found trouble. Taking the personal side out of it I just think Robby is overrated by Jets fans. They see the flashiness of the deep ball and think that's how you win games.

You providing the example of the Super Bowl play by Hill and then saying you're not comparing them is exactly why we have a difference of opinion.  Here's the difference between Tyreek Hill and Robby and what my issue with him is talent wise.  That play in the Super Bowl Hill lined up in the slot, which Robby never does bc he's not a threat to run any quick inside/outside or option routes,  and Hill ran a corner route which Robby never does bc he's always working from the outside. 

Besides the fact that I don't trust Robby to stay out of trouble I just don't think his talent level warrants any where near $15 million.  My value on him would be around $9 million per.  Same as John Brown and that's taking into consideration the rookie class this year.

[genot]

7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

This gets washed out through sample size.  If Robby was getting overthrown by 10 feet all the time for 4 straight years by multiple different QBs, that would have been noticed by now.  

He was under thrown a bunch this year. You saw what i saw. A bunch of times he was open deep, and he was under thrown by Darnold.

[Kevin L]

13 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

This gets washed out through sample size.  If Robby was getting overthrown by 10 feet all the time for 4 straight years by multiple different QBs, that would have been noticed by now.  

Well he was only credited with 2 drops last year, so obviously something other than his alleged stone hands are affecting his catch rate.

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, Kevin L said:

Well he was only credited with 2 drops last year, so obviously something other than his alleged stone hands are affecting his catch rate.

The NFL doesn't count drops liberally.  I'm not impressed by a low drop rate.  Its a fairly meaningless stat.

There's more to WR's than "drop/not dropped".  Fighting for 50/50 balls is an area where Robby fails often. 

[bitonti]

everyone talks about the difference between 10 per and 15 per 

and it certainly is a difference... but the cap went up 12 mil between last year and this year alone

 

the real question is Sun RA worth a second contract, and the Jets have thought for a long time the answer is no

for a player who's game is primarily speed based, this is probably the right call

but the shame of this is they gave Quincy the 2nd contract, thinking he was a better character bet 

 

 

 

 

[Jetsfan80]

In any case if you're going to say Sam's struggles are a reason for Robby's low catch rate, then the best thing to do would to NOT pay Robby a boatload of money and run it back.  Let's try something different.

[Jetsfan80]

 

11 minutes ago, genot said:

He was under thrown a bunch this year. You saw what i saw. A bunch of times he was open deep, and he was under thrown by Darnold.

 

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

In any case if you're going to say Sam's struggles are a reason for Robby's low catch rate, then the best thing to do would to NOT pay Robby a boatload of money and run it back.  Let's try something different.

[genot]

7 minutes ago, choon328 said:

I don't think Robby is a person who makes great choices and I think that's pretty evident.  Put $40 million in that same person's hands and see what happens.  He was on his best behavior in 2019 with a payday looming.  Prior to that he was a knucklehead who found trouble. Taking the personal side out of it I just think Robby is overrated by Jets fans. They see the flashiness of the deep ball and think that's how you win games.

You providing the example of the Super Bowl play by Hill and then saying you're not comparing them is exactly why we have a difference of opinion.  Here's the difference between Tyreek Hill and Robby and what my issue with him is talent wise.  That play in the Super Bowl Hill lined up in the slot, which Robby never does bc he's not a threat to run any quick inside/outside or option routes,  and Hill ran a corner route which Robby never does bc he's always working from the outside. 

Besides the fact that I don't trust Robby to stay out of trouble I just don't think his talent level warrants any where near $15 million.  My value on him would be around $9 million per.  Same as John Brown and that's taking into consideration the rookie class this year.

I wish you would stop looking at the stupid stuff he's done. Consider he started his career at Temple as a cornerback, got converted to WR, got kicked out of the program for academics. he worked his way back into school, graduated, and as an udfa made an NFL team, and now is looking at a big payday. he's missed two games in his career, never complained about not getting targeted more. It in alot of ways it's a feel good story. Sounds corny, but it's true.

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, genot said:

I wish you would stop looking at the stupid stuff he's done. Consider he started his career at Temple as a cornerback, got converted to WR, got kicked out of the program for academics. he worked his way back into school, graduated, and as an udfa made an NFL team, and now is looking at a big payday. he's missed two games in his career, never complained about not getting targeted more. It in alot of ways it's a feel good story. Sounds corny, but it's true.

That's fine.  I'll be happy for him when he gets $13M+ per elsewhere.  Let him be a feel-good story on someone else's dime.  

[joewilly12]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

That's fine.  I'll be happy for him when he gets $13M+ elsewhere.  

Heres wishing you a happy following. 

[choon328]

The question about giving Anderson $15 million really boils down to this. It's 4th and 6, the team is down a TD with a minute to go and Tom Brady is your QB. Out of the following 5 players that would have been on the field in 2019 where would you rank Anderson, 1-5, on who you trust the most to get open and get the 1st down in a need to have it type of play.

 

Anderson

Bell

Crowder

Griffin

Thomas

 

If you don't rank him #1 you don't give him $15 million per year. 

[choon328]

7 minutes ago, genot said:

I wish you would stop looking at the stupid stuff he's done. Consider he started his career at Temple as a cornerback, got converted to WR, got kicked out of the program for academics. he worked his way back into school, graduated, and as an udfa made an NFL team, and now is looking at a big payday. he's missed two games in his career, never complained about not getting targeted more. It in alot of ways it's a feel good story. Sounds corny, but it's true.

All I'm reading is that he's been making bad decisions since college and it only stopped on the brink of free agency. That speaks to me more as someone just smart enough, and I emphasize "just", to keep his stuff together long enough for a pay day.

[genot]

6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

That's fine.  I'll be happy for him when he gets $13M+ per elsewhere.  Let him be a feel-good story on someone else's dime.  

This is about winning football games. If you wanna gamble on some other teams scrub to save a few million, fine. That's the kind of view Idzik had, and that was the start of our woes on our o-line. Wayne hunter, Wesley Johnson, Breno Giacomini. Remember

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, genot said:

This is about winning football games. If you wanna gamble on some other teams scrub to save a few million, fine. That's the kind of view Idzik had, and that was the start of our woes on our o-line. Wayne hunter, Wesley Johnson, Breno Giacomini. Remember

 

Yes, I'd rather gamble on the draft and Tier B and C Free Agents than overpay a WR2.  I suck at this, clearly. 

Idzik didn't suck because of free agency.  He brought in Eric Decker, who was better over a couple seasons than Robby has ever been.  He sucked at the draft.  

[genot]

2 minutes ago, choon328 said:

All I'm reading is that he's been making bad decisions since college and it only stopped on the brink of free agency. That speaks to me more as someone just smart enough, and I emphasize "just", to keep his stuff together long enough for a pay day.

 

2 minutes ago, choon328 said:

All I'm reading is that he's been making bad decisions since college and it only stopped on the brink of free agency. That speaks to me more as someone just smart enough, and I emphasize "just", to keep his stuff together long enough for a pay day.

You talk like he's been a bank robber, or drug dealer. he's made some mistakes, but not the kind that would make him out to be thuggish.

[Jet_Engine1]

18 minutes ago, bitonti said:

everyone talks about the difference between 10 per and 15 per 

and it certainly is a difference... but the cap went up 12 mil between last year and this year alone

 

the real question is Sun RA worth a second contract, and the Jets have thought for a long time the answer is no

for a player who's game is primarily speed based, this is probably the right call

but the shame of this is they gave Quincy the 2nd contract, thinking he was a better character bet 

 

 

 

 

Sun RA? 

 

[The Voice of Reason]

23 minutes ago, genot said:

Not trying to reup Robby before the season ended is dumb. Some team is going to offer him big bucks. They look at his ability to blow up a defense, and consider what our situation has been at Qb, and with our offensive line, and conclude that they could get more out of him. They very well could be right.

What makes you think that Robby Anderson wasn't going to FA no matter what.  He said multiple times that he would like to play for the Jets at the right price but wants to test the market. Your assumption that the Jets could have extended him is a stretch based on the majority of the reports out there. 

And good... I hope some team offers a huge contract to him... less money in the pool and high compensatory pick if JD manipulates the formula correctly. You think he is worth top 15 WR money... I don't... lets leave it at that because obviously we are not going to agree. 

Just for sh*ts and giggles Here is a list of the Top 24 WR contracts... Please list Who you think RA is better then!

I would argue that he isn't even close to as good as a single player on this sheet. Every single one of them has had 1000+ yard season... And this is every WR making more then 10 Mill a year... please understand... I think he is good but I would take every single one of these WRs without a second thought over him... 

Again good WR... not on this tier... Sorry..

[Kevin L]

22 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The NFL doesn't count drops liberally.  I'm not impressed by a low drop rate.  Its a fairly meaningless stat.

There's more to WR's than "drop/not dropped".  Fighting for 50/50 balls is an area where Robby fails often. 

Fair enough, but there's also more to catch rate than just caught/not caught. 

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Kevin L said:

Fair enough, but there's also more to catch rate than just caught/not caught. 

Agreed.  But again, that gets washed out by sample size.  His catch rate being remarkably consistent can't really be pinned on his QB's.  It simply can't. 

[14 in Green]

21 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

In any case if you're going to say Sam's struggles are a reason for Robby's low catch rate, then the best thing to do would to NOT pay Robby a boatload of money and run it back.  Let's try something different.

?

A slower WR might help with the under thrown deep balls...

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, 14 in Green said:

?

A slower WR might help with the under thrown deep balls...

Possession receivers always get criminally underrated.  The most successful NFL teams haven't needed burners on them.  Get me a group of guys with average speed and great hands.  

Robby is fun to watch.  That doesn't make him worth WR1 money.  

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

13 minutes ago, choon328 said:

The question about giving Anderson $15 million really boils down to this. It's 4th and 6, the team is down a TD with a minute to go and Tom Brady is your QB. Out of the following 5 players that would have been on the field in 2019 where would you rank Anderson, 1-5, on who you trust the most to get open and get the 1st down in a need to have it type of play.

 

Anderson

Bell

Crowder

Griffin

Thomas

 

If you don't rank him #1 you don't give him $15 million per year. 

Lol. Anderson could easily be #1 in that situation. He has been. 

4th and 15, gotta have it. How you ranking it? 

 

Either way, I’d rather NOT give him 15million but the alternative plan of using Vyncint Smith instead and counting on a 2nd/3rd round rookie is a little scary. Only way I feel OK with that is if the oline was significantly better and Griffin and Hernon are healthy the whole season. A lot of if’s. Either way is a gamble. 

[BornJetsFan1983]

13 minutes ago, choon328 said:

The question about giving Anderson $15 million really boils down to this. It's 4th and 6, the team is down a TD with a minute to go and Tom Brady is your QB. Out of the following 5 players that would have been on the field in 2019 where would you rank Anderson, 1-5, on who you trust the most to get open and get the 1st down in a need to have it type of play.

 

Anderson

Bell

Crowder

Griffin

Thomas

 

If you don't rank him #1 you don't give him $15 million per year. 

this is great perspective. I am totally for getting rid of robbie for a whole host of reasons - mainly that he is not that good. But look at that list, add in enuwa and Herdon even. 

I would rank Robby over who exactly? Nven if you suppose Robbie is not going to drop the  ball or give up on the route. He is going 100 percent. He is not good at getting open - toughness body type etc. All factors being equal i like all the other guys better and then fact in the on field stuff like quiting on plays and not being tough I def dont want to go to him or pay him.

I will say this - and anohter poster said it like on page 1 - this is totally a Jets move to resign him just because we dont know how to build a roster. If we dont sign him it will really make me buy in to Joe D and the idea that we finally have someone smart in the Front Office. Hell if it comes out that Adam Gase made the call I will admit that he finally made a good move. 

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Samtorobby47 said:

Lol. Anderson could easily be #1 in that situation. He has been. 

4th and 15, gotta have it. How you ranking it? 

 

Either way, I’d rather NOT give him 15million but the alternative plan of using Vyncint Smith instead and counting on a 2nd/3rd round rookie is a little scary. Only way I feel OK with that is if the oline was significantly better and Griffin and Hernon are healthy the whole season. A lot of if’s. Either way is a gamble. 

 

Why is the decision between Robby Anderson and Vyncint Smith + 2nd/3rd rounder?

There's quite a lot more gray area than that in the middle.  

[CTM]

48 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

This gets washed out through sample size.  If Robby was getting overthrown by 10 feet all the time for 4 straight years by multiple different QBs, that would have been noticed by now.  

When have we had a good QB in the past 4 years? Hopkins catch rate was mid / high 50's for years until Watson

[joewilly12]

Just now, CTM said:

When have we had a good QB in the past 4 years? Hopkins catch rate was mid / high 50's for years until Watson

So now you're saying Sam Darnold is not a good QB. 

Please do tell us more. 

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, CTM said:

When have we had a good QB in the past 4 years? Hopkins catch rate was mid / high 50's for years until Watson

 

Hopkins was once targeted 192 times in a season during those first 4 years you're referring to.  192 times.  

Kind of a different scenario, no?

And he still hauled in 58 % of those throws.  

[genot]

5 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

What makes you think that Robby Anderson wasn't going to FA no matter what.  He said multiple times that he would like to play for the Jets at the right price but wants to test the market. Your assumption that the Jets could have extended him is a stretch based on the majority of the reports out there. 

And good... I hope some team offers a huge contract to him... less money in the pool and high compensatory pick if JD manipulates the formula correctly. You think he is worth top 15 WR money... I don't... lets leave it at that because obviously we are not going to agree. 

Just for sh*ts and giggles Here is a list of the Top 24 WR contracts... Please list Who you think RA is better then!

I would argue that he isn't even close to as good as a single player on this sheet. Every single one of them has had 1000+ yard season... And this is every WR making more then 10 Mill a year... please understand... I think he is good but I would take every single one of these WRs without a second thought over him... 

Again good WR... not on this tier... Sorry..

Alshon Jeffery hasn't been as productive on a team with a more polished QB, and certainly a better o-line. Go look.Check out sanders career numbers. His first four years, he was not as productive as Anderson. Green is an injury prone, 32 yr old. Tyrell Williams hasn't been as productive as anderson, even with a more seasoned QB's and better o-lines.

[CTM]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Hopkins was once targeted 192 times in a season during those first 4 years you're referring to.  192 times.  

Kind of a different scenario, no?

And he still hauled in 58 % of those throws.  

What is your point, rate is rate.  

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, CTM said:

What is your point, rate is rate.  

The point is its quite clear that not only was their QB play horrific, but they also had exactly zero other receivers to target.

That hasn't been the case here.  

Rate is rate, but when you're getting triple covered, it plays a role.  I don't know about you, but I haven't seen Anderson get treated like the target monster Hopkins is at any point in his career.