Curtis Martin compares Adam Gase to Bill Belichick: 'I think he’s one of those guys'

[TuscanyTile2]

3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Dude, give it up already I never said either of those two things.  In fact I said, pretty clearly "Dont confuse that with all is well and winning is a given."  I get the technique of accusing me of some over the top statement that I never made in order to help make your point but dude, I wrote what I wrote.  Directly above your comment to drive it home even more. 

I dont understand why and how the 7 wins has made you so angry. 

I'm thrilled with the 7 wins.  Last year's 7-9 record was like a dream.  As I said above, I think we might've been the greatest 7-9 team in NFL history.  

As for this year, I'm just hopeful Gase can help the franchise miss the playoffs for the 10th consecutive time. 

 

[TuscanyTile2]

48 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Actually where we where, at 1-7 getting the team to stay together and not quit or fall apart was tremendous.  

Dont confuse that with all is well and winning is a given.

 

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Who cares, a new way to complain about a coach, the margins of losses?  A loss is a loss.

I never, ever have heard someone complain about eh margins of defeat in a 7 win season.  Have to say, sounds like youre doing the classic Jet fan woe is me rant.  We won 7 BUT, the losses were too big, the wins weren't against the top teams in the league, those wins dont really count and the losses count as doubles, woe is me.  ?Come on down to earth, youre getting, dare I say, fidelioish? 

So you're allowed to praise Gase for winning games after a 1-7 start but I'm not allowed to criticize him for losing by double-digits in 7 of our 16 games last year?  

[Jet Nut]

Someone is just looking to argue at this point and its not me.  I've made my point, said the wins are wins.  Theyre on the record.  You brought up the Cassell led Pats, I said no one talks about how easy their schedule was.  I also said doesnt mean all is right and it means winning is a given and you just cant accept that.

I'm done, never said anything wrong or nasty and dont want to.  Sorry

[TuscanyTile2]

42 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Someone is just looking to argue at this point and its not me.  I've made my point, said the wins are wins.  Theyre on the record.  You brought up the Cassell led Pats, I said no one talks about how easy their schedule was.  I also said doesnt mean all is right and it means winning is a given and you just cant accept that.

I'm done, never said anything wrong or nasty and dont want to.  Sorry

But Gase gets extra praise from you ("getting the team to stay together and not quit or fall apart was tremendous") for getting those wins after a 1-7 start, right?  And let's conveniently forget his loss to the winless Bengals which could've at least put us back in the discussion for "longshot for the playoffs".  

[TuscanyTile2]

43 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Someone is just looking to argue at this point and its not me.  I've made my point, said the wins are wins.  Theyre on the record.  You brought up the Cassell led Pats, I said no one talks about how easy their schedule was.  I also said doesnt mean all is right and it means winning is a given and you just cant accept that.

I'm done, never said anything wrong or nasty and dont want to.  Sorry

Sounds a little Fidelio-ish to me.

[freestater]

12 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

But Gase gets extra praise from you ("getting the team to stay together and not quit or fall apart was tremendous") for getting those wins after a 1-7 start, right?  And let's conveniently forget his loss to the winless Bengals which could've at least put us back in the discussion for "longshot for the playoffs".  

I'm also willing to blame Gase for the infamous streak-breaking Browns loss. 

[SAR I]

6 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Gase didn't elevate anything.  We played almost all crappy teams in the 2nd half of the year.  And the one "big game" we played in (which would've put us back in the conversation for "slim chance for the playoffs" as opposed to "playing out the string") was against the Bengals, where we laid an egg.

The one game in the 2nd half of the year that I was honestly most impressed by was against the Ravens.  At least we played them tough in the 1st half of that game.  Other than that, am I really supposed to get so excited over beating the Steelers (with their 3rd string QB) or the Bills (who were resting up for the playoffs) or the Giants/Redskins (who were just as bad if not worse than we were) or the Dolphins, who we eked out a victory against (to avoid getting swept by them).  We blew out the Raiders though!   

Stop already with the weak teams argument. 

The Bills went to the playoffs feasting on those same teams.  The Ravens had 11 such games on their cupcake schedule. I don’t see you being hard on those teams, I don’t see you preaching how their playoff berths were undeserved.  

The Jets going 6-2 after 1-7 is a great accomplishment.  Deal with it.  

SAR I

[TuscanyTile2]

7 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Stop already with the weak teams argument. 

The Bills went to the playoffs feasting on those same teams.  The Ravens had 11 such games on their cupcake schedule. I don’t see you being hard on those teams, I don’t see you preaching how their playoff berths were undeserved.  

The Jets going 6-2 after 1-7 is a great accomplishment.  Deal with it.  

SAR I

I agree that losing to the Bengals by 16, the Browns by 20, the Jags by 14, the Eagles by 25 and almost getting swept by the Dolphins was quite an accomplishment!

[SAR I]

9 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I agree that losing to the Bengals by 16, the Browns by 20, the Jags by 14, the Eagles by 25 and almost getting swept by the Dolphins was quite an accomplishment!

We lost our franchise quarterback and he wasn’t right until Week 9.  If you want to go full-Eeyore on the grounds that Luke Falk should have played at a high level, good luck with that. 

SAR I

[TuscanyTile2]

2 minutes ago, SAR I said:

We lost our franchise quarterback and he wasn’t right until Week 9.  If you want to go full-Eeyore on the grounds that Luke Falk should have played at a high level, good luck with that. 

SAR I

The Steelers lost Ben in week 2 yet won 8 games with Mason Rudolph and Duck Hodges.  They lost to the 49ers (on the road) by 4 and to the Ravens in OT by 3.   Yes, we beat them but they were on their 3rd string QB at the time (and were without their #1 QB basically the entire season).  Post-Ben they lost only 2 games by double-digits.  But yeah, it's "full eeyore" to say that something like that can be done.

[SAR I]

2 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

The Steelers lost Ben in week 2 yet won 8 games with Mason Rudolph and Duck Hodges.  They lost to the 49ers (on the road) by 4 and to the Ravens in OT by 3.   Yes, we beat them but they were on their 3rd string QB at the time (and were without their #1 QB basically the entire season).  Post-Ben they lost only 2 games by double-digits.  But yeah, it's "full eeyore" to say that something like that can be done.

Let's see....

The Pittsburgh Steelers haven't had a losing season since 2003, have had the same head coach and the same system for the last 10 years, and are known for stellar dedication to the offensive line.

Compare that to the 2019 New York Jets who have had 1 winning season since 2010, had a first year head coach, a 22 year old quarterback on his second system in two years, the worst OL in the NFL, the worst rushing attack in the NFL, and the most injuries in the NFL.

The Jets winning 7 games with Sam Darnold and Adam Gase is a hell of a lot more impressive than the Steelers winning 8 games with Rudolph, Hodges, and Mike Tomlin.

SAR I

[TuscanyTile2]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

Let's see....

The Pittsburgh Steelers haven't had a losing season since 2003, have had the same head coach and the same system for the last 10 years, and are known for stellar dedication to the offensive line.

Compare that to the 2019 New York Jets who have had 1 winning season since 2010, had a first year head coach, a 22 year old quarterback on his second system in two years, the worst OL in the NFL, the worst rushing attack in the NFL, and the most injuries in the NFL.

The Jets winning 7 games with Sam Darnold and Adam Gase is a hell of a lot more impressive than the Steelers winning 8 games with Rudolph, Hodges, and Mike Tomlin.

SAR I

The core of the Steelers was Ben, Bell and Brown.  All of which weren’t around last year (minus about a week of Ben). Yes Darnold is young and in a new system but do you think Rudolph and Duck were that experienced in the Steelers’ offense?  The Jets had Sam play all but IIRC 4 games.  I’ll grant you that he probably felt the effects of mono all year but I’d still EASILY take him over Rudolph/Duck. The Steelers didn’t get blown out (20+ points) every 4th game.  They didn’t even lose by double digits more than twice post-Ben (whereas Gase lost by double-digits 7 times).

Tomlin did a much better job than Gase did last year and you know that perfectly well.  Let me ask you, if you could trade Gase for Tomlin straight-up, would you do it?

[jetophile]

On 8/24/2020 at 7:09 PM, UnknownJetFan said:

You know, I get tired of hearing this about BB, but I'll apply the same analogy I have used, I have played friendly games of poker especially no limit holdem and while I am OK, I can win multiple WPT and World series of poker titles if I had a pair of glasses that showed me all the other players cards and they could not see mine. That is the advantage BB had when he stole defensive signals for 8+ years since the QA now wears that pair of glasses knowing where all the defenders will be on every play. I also played HS football which at its basic levels is the same as any other football game or league when it comes to this kind of stuff, so I know what that type of cheating gives someone as far as an overall advantage. 

What kind of sycophantic nonsense is this post? All I know is that whenever something nefarious happens - big or small -  the Cheats are always in the conversation. 

"Every now and then I'd get a sheet, one hour before the game, with list of audibles of our opponent," Johnson said in 2005.  "I don't know how, but they just showed up." - Ted Johnson, New England Patriots

The point I'm trying to make is that of course you need to be extremely shrewd to win at anything. You have to have a certain level of admiration for someone who can out Machiavelli Machiavelli, and credit where credit is due there; but in order to do that you have to not only know the rule book even better than the NFL itself, you need to be so good at it that you're arrogant enough to try to pull off playing dumb, a lie that no-one believes. 

Belichick's oh, I didn't know that was a rule, oh, I didn't know that that was a problem, oh, I didn't know that was a violation of rule blah blah blah, lol.

*Caught cheating.

[SAR I]

4 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Tomlin did a much better job than Gase did last year and you know that perfectly well.  Let me ask you, if you could trade Gase for Tomlin straight-up, would you do it?

Tomlin may go to the Hall Of Fame.  He’s an exceptional head coach.  

Gase did a great job in terrible circumstances last season.  Feel good that we may have gotten the front office and the QB of our dreams all at the same time. Mmm k?

SAR I

[TuscanyTile2]

27 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Tomlin may go to the Hall Of Fame.  He’s an exceptional head coach.  

Gase did a great job in terrible circumstances last season.  Feel good that we may have gotten the front office and the QB of our dreams all at the same time. Mmm k?

SAR I

Agree with everything except the line about Gase doing a great job last year. 

[SAR I]

8 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Agree with everything except the line about Gase doing a great job last year. 

At 1-7, with a QB recovering from mono, with the worst OL and RB in the league, with the Ravens on the schedule, with the players downtrodden, with the media targeting his family, what exactly could Gase have done to please you over the last 8 games more than 6-2?

SAR I

[TuscanyTile2]

52 minutes ago, SAR I said:

At 1-7, with a QB recovering from mono, with the worst OL and RB in the league, with the Ravens on the schedule, with the players downtrodden, with the media targeting his family, what exactly could Gase have done to please you over the last 8 games more than 6-2?

SAR I

First off, the 6-2 was only 5-2 against teams that were legitimately trying to win (because we both know the Bills were resting up for the playoffs).  But if we break down those 5 wins, 2 came against teams that had major issues (Giants/Redskins).  The Dolphin game went right down to the wire and it was to avoid getting swept by a team that ended up going 5-11 so I'm not going to do cartwheels there.  The Steeler win was against a 3rd string QB.  So basically there was 1 impressive win in there (against Oakland).  And keep in mind we also lost to the winless Bengals in a game where a victory would've put us in the playoff discussion (as a longshot but still in the discussion).

I mean, why are we all trying to kid ourselves here?  The only "measuring stick game" we played during this stretch was against Baltimore.  And I will give Gase credit for legitimately competing in the 1st half of that game (which I felt was our best half of football the entire year).  But these other wins (against crappy teams or decent teams that had extenuating circumstances like Pittsburgh) just don't excite me.  Plus again, losing to Cincy (in a game that was important for us!) was pretty damning.  And we lost by 16 in that game!

Having said that, I will 100% admit that there were some legit excuses to explain last year (Darnold getting mono and the horrible OL) but I still say that a better coach would've had this team compete a lot better than we saw from Gase last year (again, did Pittsburgh lose by double-digits 7 times despite no Ben for almost the entire season?  And with Bell and Brown both gone too, btw). 

To me, it's pretty clear that Gase can't elevate a bad team.  My hope is that he's able to coach a more talented team.  Thanks to Joe D, I do think (and hope!) that this team is more talented than it was last year.  But I'm not going to just assume Gase is the answer at HC until I see a legitimate reason to believe it.  Believe me, I hope he is the next Belichick.  I'd happily eat crow if he could win us 1 Superbowl (let alone 6!)

 

[playtowinthegame]

A 6-2 finish was absolutely remarkable with a team with a very weakened roster affected by several injuries. Guys played hard for Adam Gase after a horrific 1-7 start to the season. For most teams the wheels would have come off after a week 9 loss at the Miami Dolohins. Nope. The Jets kept grinding and won 6 games out of 8. It was impressive. It gives us something to build off of. 

[TuscanyTile2]

10 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

A 6-2 finish was absolutely remarkable with a team with a very weakened roster affected by several injuries. Guys played hard for Adam Gase after a horrific 1-7 start to the season. For most teams the wheels would have come off after a week 9 loss at the Miami Dolohins. Nope. The Jets kept grinding and won 6 games out of 8. It was impressive. It gives us something to build off of. 

We were blown out (20+ point loss) every 4th game and we lost by double-digits practically every other game (7 of 16 games).  He even managed to lose by only 16 points (in a game that would've put us in the playoff conversation) against the worst team in the NFL.

"What a great job Gase did!"

[munchmemory]

Curtis just prior to his statement as the ayahuasca was kicking in:

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

To me, it's pretty clear that Gase can't elevate a bad team. 

6-2 after 1-7 is very clear, TT2. 

SAR I

[TuscanyTile2]

29 minutes ago, SAR I said:

6-2 after 1-7 is very clear, TT2. 

SAR I

Well if you're going to ignore the details then I'll just say 7-9 is pretty clear too.

[Death2NE]

I agree that he had legit excuses early in the year (especially with Darnold out) but I just can't forgive how poorly we played in those games.
We had 5 double digit losses in our 1st 7 games (and we had a loss to Miami by 8 points).  We also looked pretty lifeless most of the time. 
Losing by 25 to the Eagles?! 
By 20 to the Browns?! 
By 14 to the Jags?! 
Again, I can accept the losses but I have a hard time believing that we were so much worse than these mediocre teams (and let's not pretend that the Eagles were very good last year).
I've just never seen a HC get such praise for doing so little ("he could be special!").  Of course I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see where any of this is coming from.  And I also want to reiterate that our travel schedule is likely never going to be easier than it was last year.
EDIT:
And if the Pats didn't take it easy on us in week 3, we would've had 4  20+ point losses in our first 6 games (and probably 2 of them would've been 30+).  

I definitely hear you , those Margin of losses is unacceptable but I do honestly believe if you asked me to give you the exception it would be a team playing an offensive line incapable of of blocking for either aspect of the game. Whoever said you build from the inside out was 100% right and I don’t think fans in general appreciate the o-line enough even if they give it lip service . Basically every successful jets team I’ve ever seen had an above average oline play and that’s all it took those offenses to at least be capable . The jets might have had one of the all time most injured offensive lines in nfl history and it was bottom 3 talent wise when the original 5 were still healthy. I know it sounds like excuses but there just isn’t any qb, coach anybody that can scheme or devise a game plan that can account for a line allowing pressure in 3 seconds and having the rb get hit at or behind the line every down . I’m not saying Gase IS the answer or IS the genius but I’m actually impressed with his record given what he’s worked with . I don’t know what praise you think he gets though , he seems to be the most universally hated hc among jet fans and the nfl as a whole .

Gase had a unique road to hc in this game . I’ve read a ton of articles on him going back to his days of hs football . Honestly viewing him as person through those stories seems to make him look socially awkward in a way which is probably why some players who hate him and others really appreciate him . I hate Peyton Manning but through those pieces I read it seems they really did have a back forth for every game plan / pre snap read and Peyton really did respect his input . The guy is 3-5 vs belicheck in 4 years with just absolutely minimal talent and I’m guessing a backup qb for 5 of those 8 games .

No darnold for 3 games and god knows how close to 100% healthy he was for most of the season after the mono, hands down the worst offensive line I’ve ever seen except maybe whatever year Adrian Clark started lol , just a pitiful rotation of skill players , his defensive mvp gone after 3 quarters . I think I heard last year Marcus Maye Robbie Anderson and Jamison crowder were the only Jets to play in every game . ALL THAT and we’re a kicker/Mosley injury away from sweeping the bills , I was at the browns game , darnold even with mono and we win that game , who knows what would have happened vs eagles . Point is outside of some unusually horrible luck even for the jets where the starting young future franchise qb gets mono like a middle school girl in week 1 , we still with all this could have easily won another 1 , probably 2 and maybe even 3 games .


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[SAR I]

8 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Well if you're going to ignore the details then I'll just say 7-9 is pretty clear too.

You had 'em at 6-10 completely healthy and they gave you 7-9 completely injured.  You have nothing to complain about.  Shhh.

SAR I

[Death2NE]

I'm also willing to blame Gase for the infamous streak-breaking Browns loss. 

 

His qb gets MONO 5 days earlier (seriously as we all know , MONO, I’m still in shock even for the jets) the decent backup he had played maybe 2 series before Myles Garrett snapped his leg , luke folk the third string qb who doesn’t belong on an nfl field like all 3rd string qbs , takes the field for the first time in his career on Monday night football against the browns (who were 0-1 and who were hyped by everyone including Vegas to be division winners last year and no doubt knew it was a game they needed to win ) and to top that all off D. Thomas and Braxton Berrios were seeing significant time at WR there was no Herndon and the offensive line was worse then even normally were last season which was already worst in league by far while Myles garret just abused kelvin beachum to highlight 1 of the 5 offensive line mismatches . Despite all this it was a close game until 1 Beckham breakaway , and that’s a credit to the defense and honestly the offense for simply just not turning it over more or letting them be in position to score more considering how bad those circumstances were . I was at the game and If I remember right folk I think hit Berrios deep and the guy drops it when the game was only like 10-3 or 3-3 ....

 

 

Go ahead and explain to me how not just Gase but how anyone other then the gm can be responsible for a loss in that game , it’s a miracle that it wasn’t as ugly as the patriot game and no hc or qb in nfl history could have succeeded that night offensively except maybe prime Peyton Manning . Any thought that Gase could have done anything that night except pray, is exactly the problem with this fan base .

 

 

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[Death2NE]

The Steelers lost Ben in week 2 yet won 8 games with Mason Rudolph and Duck Hodges.  They lost to the 49ers (on the road) by 4 and to the Ravens in OT by 3.   Yes, we beat them but they were on their 3rd string QB at the time (and were without their #1 QB basically the entire season).  Post-Ben they lost only 2 games by double-digits.  But yeah, it's "full eeyore" to say that something like that can be done.

The Steelers have one of the best o lines in football , CRUCIAL to the starters success but if it’s not an elite starting qb it’s 100% necessary for a backup to have an above average o line , the difference between the teams two lines is really the only difference that matters but I’ll just add in also they had better skill players not by much by again only more magnified by oline play AND they had/have one of if not the most talented defensive roster in the league ... AND WE BEAT THEM, Qb aside every single other aspect about the Steelers roster is and was better than the jets last season and it’s not even close


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[Death2NE]

Again I don’t know if Gase is a good head coach , I think he’s got the x & o side down if given a decent roster and could even be exceptional on that end of being a coach which is the way harder trait to find then the coach who connects with players , unfortunately there’s too many weird stories that come out here and there that make it seem that Gase is too socially awkward or too wrapped in his QB or favorite players or something going on that make it seem like he doesn’t have the “relating to men” part of coaching down . Which sucks because we always have that coach and never the one who could win the chess match .

 

But I just can’t stand listening to people anymore making comparisons to the Steelers or saying how bad last year was . THE OFFENSIVE LINE IS SO IMPORTANT That an above average one could lead a relatively weak team to be competitive enough to be .500 or better and a weak one WILL ruin the season for any team without one of the very few elite QBs . We didn’t have a weak o line last year , we had the worst o line I’ve ever seen fielded, something like 14 different lineman started in 10 different offensive line combos or something ridiculous like that , and not even a single one of those 14 players was even an average player . If that’s all the case was it would be excuse enough , but it wasn’t , his QB missed 3 games with mono and probably wasn’t right for most of the season , his wrs were average if I’m being generous , Herndon misses the year . These are enormous problems for any team but nevermind one with absolutely no offensive talent and a 2nd year qb in the first year of a new system . There is no other way to take last season under these conditions than 7-9 was an absolute miracle . I can’t really take anyone seriously who thinks there was something Gase could have done .

 

 

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[freestater]

30 minutes ago, Death2NE said:

 

His qb gets MONO 5 days earlier (seriously as we all know , MONO, I’m still in shock even for the jets) the decent backup he had played maybe 2 series before Myles Garrett snapped his leg , luke folk the third string qb who doesn’t belong on an nfl field like all 3rd string qbs , takes the field for the first time in his career on Monday night football against the browns (who were 0-1 and who were hyped by everyone including Vegas to be division winners last year and no doubt knew it was a game they needed to win ) and to top that all off D. Thomas and Braxton Berrios were seeing significant time at WR there was no Herndon and the offensive line was worse then even normally were last season which was already worst in league by far while Myles garret just abused kelvin beachum to highlight 1 of the 5 offensive line mismatches . Despite all this it was a close game until 1 Beckham breakaway , and that’s a credit to the defense and honestly the offense for simply just not turning it over more or letting them be in position to score more considering how bad those circumstances were . I was at the game and If I remember right folk I think hit Berrios deep and the guy drops it when the game was only like 10-3 or 3-3 ....

 

 

Go ahead and explain to me how not just Gase but how anyone other then the gm can be responsible for a loss in that game , it’s a miracle that it wasn’t as ugly as the patriot game and no hc or qb in nfl history could have succeeded that night offensively except maybe prime Peyton Manning . Any thought that Gase could have done anything that night except pray, is exactly the problem with this fan base .

 

 

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Wrong game. The streak breaker was during Bowles' tenure. It was a joke. Relax.

[Death2NE]

Wrong game. The streak breaker was during Bowles' tenure. It was a joke. Relax.

 

I apologize , mostly lurking jet boards for 15+ years now since I’m a kid and after all Ive sat back read over the years , the Gase Criticism of what the offense looked like last year without actually understanding how bad it was looks like the breaking point for me to come out swinging lol . Forgive me!

 

 

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[freestater]

1 hour ago, Death2NE said:

 

I apologize , mostly lurking jet boards for 15+ years now since I’m a kid and after all Ive sat back read over the years , the Gase Criticism of what the offense looked like last year without actually understanding how bad it was looks like the breaking point for me to come out swinging lol . Forgive me!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

No worries. 

[TuscanyTile2]

I have to admit that I'm surprised how many "Gase apologists" there are on here.  Plenty of people defending him.  Fwiw, I hope I'm wrong about him (though I still am not a believer).

[freestater]

On 8/24/2020 at 6:52 PM, freestater said:

crazy how belichickian this team looks.