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I’m scared Darnold will cost us the tank


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1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Because its hard to go 0 for the season

As much as fans think theres a tank and repeat it over and over again, coaches and players dont throw games for the next group of coaches and players benefit.  Theyre trying to win, dont want to be a footnote to history

 

never said the Jets were deliberately tanking the only way to tank knowingly is having a fire sale just like the Jets did. To expect players to not play to their full potential is ridiculous simply because doing that could cause them money when contract time comes. When I say things like ///"Cause Jets" don't take that serious because its meant to be funny more than anything else

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11 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

never said the Jets were deliberately tanking the only way to tank knowingly is having a fire sale just like the Jets did. To expect players to not play to their full potential is ridiculous simply because doing that could cause them money when contract time comes. When I say things like ///"Cause Jets" don't take that serious because its meant to be funny more than anything else

And yet the coaches and players are trying to win.  Trading players for draft capital isn’t tanking, it’s rebuilding.  All I read is Adams wouldn’t make a difference but trading him is part of a tank?  I don’t think any of the others traded add anything to a win total either

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1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

And yet the coaches and players are trying to win.  Trading players for draft capital isn’t tanking, it’s rebuilding.  All I read is Adams wouldn’t make a difference but trading him is part of a tank?  I don’t think any of the others traded add anything to a win total either

Adams is a different conversation and nothing to do with what happened later. Adams by his actions got him traded simply because he did not want to be a Jet in any way, so in that case **** him. When the Jets started losing and it was apparent Sam Darnold was not progressing we started unloading players both for draft capital and for basically giving up on  the season and starting a rebuild. If you think for one second JD would have started dumping players if we were somewhat successful that's flawed. He gave up player's when it was apparent we could not win and could do better with the number 1 overall pick. If you think that didn't cross his mind you would also IMHO be wrong. Front Offices can tank, players can't and wont for their own preservation. Either way the argument is pointless you can never know what someone's motivations are all we can ever do is speculate 

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49 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Adams is a different conversation and nothing to do with what happened later. Adams by his actions got him traded simply because he did not want to be a Jet in any way, so in that case **** him. When the Jets started losing and it was apparent Sam Darnold was not progressing we started unloading players both for draft capital and for basically giving up on  the season and starting a rebuild. If you think for one second JD would have started dumping players if we were somewhat successful that's flawed. He gave up player's when it was apparent we could not win and could do better with the number 1 overall pick. If you think that didn't cross his mind you would also IMHO be wrong. Front Offices can tank, players can't and wont for their own preservation. Either way the argument is pointless you can never know what someone's motivations are all we can ever do is speculate 

I'm not debating trading Adams, I'm debating the argument that trading Adams was a tank maneuver.

As for Sam nothing is apparent other than he had no one to through to while under duress.  I know that doesnt fit the cant wait for the new toy in Trevor crowd but Sam is far from done at this point, hes a compete unknown.  Hes had no talent and no coaching on bad football teams.  No one can come up with a comparable situation for a yo0ung QB to struggle through.  Hell Flacco was worse that Sam until the WRs returned to the team.  

I cant for the life of me figure out why youre so angry towards what I wrote. Giving me the "if you think" sort of shlt.  I said that payers dont tank, coaches dont tank and trading Adams before the season wasnt a tank.  Neither was McClendon or Williamson.  I have no idea why anyone would think they are part of "dumping talent".   

So no the argument isnt pointless other than from your cranky point of view.

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On 11/27/2020 at 6:53 PM, Lith said:

Neither guy has been good, but Flacco has been by far the better QB:

  • Completion Percent.  Darnold 58.6%, Flacco 55.2.  Advantage Darnold.
  • TD %.  Darnold 1.6%, Flacco 4.5%.  Advantage Flacco
  • Int % .  Darnold 3.1%, Flacco 2.2%. Advantage Flacco
  • Yds per Completion. Darnold 9.3  Flacco 11.7.  Advantage Flacco
  • Yards per attempt. Darnold 5.5, Flacco 6.4. Advantage Flacco
  • Sack Percentage.  Darnold 9%, Flacco 5%. Advantage Flacco
  • QB Rating.  Darnold 65.9, Flacco 80.6.  Advantage Flacco

Darnold is a below average NFL QB.  As an NFL QB, he is capable of a good game or two, but so is Flacco.  And in limited action, Flacco has been much better.  I especially like the sack percentage -- for those who lament poor Sam playing behind this OL.  While Joe Flacco has been playing behind the same OL, he is sacked way less than Darnold.  Is the OL making Darnold look bad, or is it the other way around.

 

Sacks taken have always been far more of a QB stat than an O-Line stat.  Flacco taking fewer sacks despite being an absolute statue and 35 years old is damning evidence against Darnold.

Darnold sucks.  

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On 11/27/2020 at 7:03 PM, heymangold said:

We’re potentially down 3 offensive linemen, again starting 3 rookie DBs and a 37 year old RB.  Sam also has been terrible this year and is most likely still hurt. Not to mention the dolphins beat us 24-0 the last time we met.  

"Other than all THAT, Mrs. Lincoln....how was the play?"

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On 11/27/2020 at 7:08 PM, DetroitRed said:

Now take out the 2 Flacco games with a full set of WRs

23 hours ago, Saul Goodman said:

As one of the best posters here, I’m surprised that you make this disingenuous argument. Darnold didn’t play with healthy receivers. 

 

How does that explain away Darnold taking a lot more sacks?

QB's make their receivers far more than the other way around.  Overnight, Jets fans love Perriman and Mims and some even think we're in decent shape at WR.  Why the sudden shift?

Joe Flacco is 35 years old, terrible, and clearly not interested in being on the field, yet is statistically superior to Darnold in every way for the same terrible team and coaching staff.  It should also be noted that Josh McCown was better under center for the Jets than Darnold, too.

Darnold sucks.

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22 hours ago, addage said:

The last "generational" qb pick I know of is Peyton Manning.  We all knew he was coming and he was as advertised.  Andrew Luck was going to be a generational pick.  Yawn!  Indy was so thrilled to get him.  How many SB's did that bring them?

Luck won 33 games, plus 3 postseason wins, in his first 3 seasons in the league, which included a 40-TD season.  He reached the Pro Bowl all 3 seasons.

Sign me up for that in a heartbeat.  

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22 hours ago, Lith said:

I just don't believe in Darnold any more.  When Darnold plays badly, he seems to be excused.  How can he play with a bad OL and bad receivers.  Poor Sam.  I think criticsm of the OL is way overblown, especially when Flacco is sacked at almost half the rate that Darnold is.

When I watch Sam's film, and I try to watch items that are in his control, I see a guy who is lost in the pocket.  He does not feel the rush.  When receivers are open, he does not see them.  He does not make accurate throws from the pocket.  He does not throw receivers open or put the ball in a spot where the reciever can make a play even if covered.  He does not throw an accurate deep ball or make big plays from the pocket.  He still seems to make rookie mistakes, throwing balls up for grabs, off his back foot or into coverage.  His big plays this year have been outside the structure of the play, when he either is forced to scramble or bails out.  I have not seen him make accurate deep thows like the long TD passes Flacco has thrown each of the last two weeks.  I don't think it is all Sam's fault, he was put in a bad situation where it was difficult to succeed. -- he has been poorly coached and he has below average receivers.  And even though i think the OL is better than last year, it is still below average.

I think Joe Flacco gives the team a better chance to win.  Which was my point in posting the stats.  I think Flacco has been better than Darnold this season.  I also do not think either guy has been good.  That said, Darnold is and should be the starter the rest of the season if healthy.  He deserves the chance to show he is better than the numbers indicate.

I would like to be comparing a young Jets QB to the top QBs in the league.  Not to a 35 year old who has not had a really good year in about 8 seasons.

 

barack obama applause GIF by Obama

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15 hours ago, Dcat said:

true.  But it never would have happened if Darnold didnt hold the ball for an eternity.  Sam still hasn't learned how to throw it away like all the other pros.  Geez, it's not rocket science.  Like Sanchez, Sam's brain processes slowly. Maybe too slowly for any real success in the NFL. 

I'm so tired of this franchise drafting slow processors at QB.  It's infuriating and a trait that can't be fixed.

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9 hours ago, genot said:

He held on to the ball too long hoping someone could get open, with a group that had trouble doing so. I've seen him throw the ball away plenty of times. He's to be commended for trying too make something positive happen,and putting himself in harms way

Sometimes QB's have to "throw a guy open" in this league.  Good QB's do it all the time.  Darnold never seems to do that.  You can't just wait for a guy to get huge separation before making a throw in the NFL.   That's not how this game works.  And even when WR's are running wide open (which has happened a lot more often than you think), Darnold still manages not to see them or misfire anyways.  

You only have so much time to make a decision, and you have to do it.  If you really can't make something happen, you throw it away.  Not hold it forever like a dumbf**k.

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26 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

How does that explain away Darnold taking a lot more sacks?

QB's make their receivers far more than the other way around.  Overnight, Jets fans love Perriman and Mims and some even think we're in decent shape at WR.  Why the sudden shift?

Joe Flacco is 35 years old, terrible, and clearly not interested in being on the field, yet is statistically superior to Darnold in every way for the same terrible team and coaching staff.  It should also be noted that Josh McCown was better under center for the Jets than Darnold, too.

Darnold sucks.

Do you know the best investment the Raiders made this offseason. Signing a Qb( Marcus Mariota) for 10 million dollars a year, and he’s the third string Qb.  Bad  investment.   No best investment because it motivated / piss off Derek Carr to raise his game to another level.     The guy playing his best football , and it was because of that contract to Mariota.

if the Jets get Lawrence , I wouldn’t be so fast to get rid of Sam Darnold.  Competition has a way of motivating players to perform at their best.  Let both of them compete for the starting job.( probably can easily keep both for at least another year).   The QB is the most important position , and Having two potential QBs isn’t a bad thing.

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5 minutes ago, Raideraholic said:

Do you know the best investment the Raiders made this offseason. Signing a Qb( Marcus Mariota) for 10 million dollars a year, and he’s the third string Qb.  Bad  investment.   No best investment because it motivated / piss off Derek Carr to raise his game to another level.     The guy playing his best football , and it was because of that contract to Mariota.

if the Jets get Lawrence , I wouldn’t be so fast to get rid of Sam Darnold.  Competition has a way of motivating players to perform at their best.  Let both of them compete for the starting job.( probably can easily keep both for at least another year).   The QB is the most important position , and Having two potential QBs isn’t a bad thing.

 

Carr can play football.  Darnold can't.  Competition will do nothing for Sam Darnold.  That was the same bullsh*t people thought would help Mark Sanchez here, too.  

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23 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I'm so tired of this franchise drafting slow processors at QB.  It's infuriating and a trait that can't be fixed.

Luck, had he stayed healthy, was like the prototype I wanted for the Jets.  Funny thing is I thought Darnold had better physicality than luck.  I had no idea he was so slow in the head. California Dreamin'.  He has airhead tendencies.  

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19 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

So why did 35 year old statue Joe Flacco not seem to have a problem with the OL while he was under center?

Yeah, Joe Flacco lit it up on 15/30 passing for 200 yards and 2tds to 1 int last week. He put up zero points against the Dolphins on 20 for 44 passing and 186 yards, 10 points against the Cardinals on 18 for 33 and 195 yards and was good for one half against the Patriots. 

What are you seeing?

You have a valid argument against Sam, not sure why you would want to drag poor Joe Flacco into this (and yourself)

 

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2 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Yeah, Joe Flacco lit it up on 15/30 passing for 200 yards and 2tds to 1 int last week. He put up zero points against the Dolphins on 20 for 44 passing and 186 yards, 10 points against the Cardinals on 18 for 33 and 195 yards and was good for one half against the Patriots. 

What are you seeing?

You have a valid argument against Sam, not sure why you would want to drag poor Joe Flacco into this (and yourself)

 

Yet he has been statistically superior to Darnold this season, and has seemingly been unaffected by this supposedly terrible OL. 

That's the sad part.  Joe Flacco sucks and doesn't even want to be out there.  Darnold just sucks more.  

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4 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

I'm not debating trading Adams, I'm debating the argument that trading Adams was a tank maneuver.

As for Sam nothing is apparent other than he had no one to through to while under duress.  I know that doesnt fit the cant wait for the new toy in Trevor crowd but Sam is far from done at this point, hes a compete unknown.  Hes had no talent and no coaching on bad football teams.  No one can come up with a comparable situation for a yo0ung QB to struggle through.  Hell Flacco was worse that Sam until the WRs returned to the team.  

I cant for the life of me figure out why youre so angry towards what I wrote. Giving me the "if you think" sort of shlt.  I said that payers dont tank, coaches dont tank and trading Adams before the season wasnt a tank.  Neither was McClendon or Williamson.  I have no idea why anyone would think they are part of "dumping talent".   

So no the argument isnt pointless other than from your cranky point of view.

You brought Adams into this debate not me. If this was a tank job it did not start with the Adams trade at all and I never said it did so in that case you're arguing with yourself. Adams got traded because he didn't want to be here.

If this team was winning would Williamson and McClendon have been traded ? Of course not. They got dumped because they are not in the long term plans due to their age and they were given a chance to go to teams that are contending. Douglas did the right thing by them. if Douglas plan was too squeak a few wins out of this team neither of those trades would have happened. The team is certainly weaker due to them not being here and its obvious. McClendon had a leadership role in the locker room as did Williamson so with that being said Douglas made the decision to start this thing over as a fresh rebuild and by weakening a team that had no chance this year he put himself in a better draft position by doing so.

FWIW I'm not trying to be cranky but you brought things into this debate I never mentioned and claim that's my stance if you claim Douglas was trying to win this year by dumping McClendon and Williamson then lets just agree to disagree. And when it comes to Sam Darnold he's exactly what I said he would be before we drafted him he had terrible mechanics then and he has them now but he's regressing even from that point and yes some of that was lack of talent around him but he was bad at certain things long before he came to the Jets. Douglas see's this and is acting accordingly

 

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29 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Carr can play football.  Darnold can't.  Competition will do nothing for Sam Darnold.  That was the same bullsh*t people thought would help Mark Sanchez here, too.  

At least Sanchez had good footwork and mechanics problem with him was he was just not cut out for the position mentally and he had accuracy issues. Sam has all the issues and he's not cut out for the position mentally

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52 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I'm so tired of this franchise drafting slow processors at QB.  It's infuriating and a trait that can't be fixed.

Its also extremely hard to evaluate at the college level. Usually QB's that come from the big schools have such a huge advantage they paly maybe 1 or 2 games a year vs top competition its really not a big sample size.

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28 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Yet he has been statistically superior to Darnold this season, and has seemingly been unaffected by this supposedly terrible OL. 

That's the sad part.  Joe Flacco sucks and doesn't even want to be out there.  Darnold just sucks more.  

Unaffected? Supposedly?? What would his numbers  be if he WERE affected? And are you saying the line sucking is a RUMOR?

They've been playing with the same receiving corp, right? 

Again, I understand your point about Darnold, but this is absurd. 

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5 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Unaffected? Supposedly?? What would his numbers  be if he WERE affected? And are you saying the line sucking is a RUMOR?

They've been playing with the same receiving corp, right? 

Again, I understand your point about Darnold, but this is absurd. 

 

I was primarily talking about the Sack % stat that Lith posted.  Darnold's is 9 %.  Flacco's is 5 %.  With the OL being the same for both QB's, Flacco being a 35-year old statue, and one of Darnold's best traits being his mobility, that's particularly damning.  

All season long Darnold apologists have been whining about the OL, and its actually not a reasonable excuse at all.  The OL hasn't been great but its been acceptable, and as has been proven in the numbers over the years, sacks taken is a QB-driven stat, not an OL-driven stat anyways.  

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9 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

I was primarily talking about the Sack % stat that Lith posted.  Darnold's is 9 %.  Flacco's is 5 %.  With the OL being the same for both QB's, Flacco being a 35-year old statue, and one of Darnold's best traits being his mobility, that's particularly damning.  

All season long Darnold apologists have been whining about the OL, and its actually not a reasonable excuse at all.  The OL hasn't been great but its been acceptable, and as has been proven in the numbers over the years, sacks taken is a QB-driven stat, not an OL-driven stat anyways.  

Well, I don't know where they get the pass block win rate percentage (I honestly don't) but the Jets are currently 30th. 

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20 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And yet they still won 24-0.  Imagine how they'll do when he has one of his "up" performances?

Dolphins only scored 3 points in the second half. After watching it again on Gamepass I came away more worried than before. Miles Gaskin was the star of that game and he is out. Their most productive WR that game Jakeem Grant is questionable. Jets gashed them with the running game. Perriman routinely gashed their corner and had his best game to that point. This could be really bad.......

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16 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I was primarily talking about the Sack % stat that Lith posted.  Darnold's is 9 %.  Flacco's is 5 %.  With the OL being the same for both QB's, Flacco being a 35-year old statue, and one of Darnold's best traits being his mobility, that's particularly damning.  

OL was not the same for both.  The two starts that Becton missed, were Flacco starts.  MIami and Arizona.  In the MIami game, without Becton, Edoga and Lewis also went down, replaced by Josh Andrews and Conor Mcdermott.  Flacco played half that game behind a 3rd string LT.

I am not making excuses for either guy.  Both guys have been put in bad situations.  Neither has played well.  

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On 11/27/2020 at 7:14 PM, Mike135 said:

Do you think Trevor would have been great here with Gase and WRs 6, 7 n 8?

Has Sam been bad, or has the team been bad?

I think he's gonna look good if the WRs n oline can stay relatively healthy to finish the season.

I caught the last part of the Clemson game one of the the talking heads said he gave Trevor a 97 his highest grade ever.. His grade for Sam?? 95 :blink:

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