Zach wilson small hands/ arms correlates bad and seen in small frame on highlights

[Bruce Harper]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

Mid range attributes deserve a mid range pick 

2 overall is an elite pick 

The original poster has a point: there's nothing physically special about Zach wilson 

If you say so (over and over).

[Peace Frog]

3 hours ago, bitonti said:

there's nothing physically special about Zach wilson 

Other than his elite arm, accuracy, ligthening quick release, his athleticism and his ability to create on the fly.

[bitonti]

13 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Other than his elite arm, accuracy, ligthening quick release, his athleticism and his ability to create on the fly.

he didn't do any tests to prove his athleticism or his elite arm 

accuracy is what they said about Darnold and Sanchez too 

[Peace Frog]

3 minutes ago, bitonti said:

he didn't do any tests to prove his athleticism or his elite arm 

accuracy is what they said about Darnold and Sanchez too 

So you do all your scouting by radio.

[bitonti]

Just now, Peace Frog said:

So you do all your scouting by radio.

yes his film looks impressive 

what's unimpressive is who that film is against  

the most elite quality about Zach Wilson is his PR machine and agents 

no one's done more to raise their draft stock with less actual evidence 

 

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, bitonti said:

The original poster has a point: there's nothing physically special about Zach wilson 

Other than his arm strength, his mechanics, his accuracy, his escapability, his abilities to go through progressions

[Peace Frog]

4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Other than his arm strength, his mechanics, his accuracy, his escapability, his abilities to go through progressions

SCAN THE BOARD!!

25 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Other than his elite arm, accuracy, ligthening quick release, his athleticism and his ability to create on the fly.

?

[Peace Frog]

6 minutes ago, bitonti said:

yes his film looks impressive 

what's unimpressive is who that film is against  

the most elite quality about Zach Wilson is his PR machine and agents 

no one's done more to raise their draft stock with less actual evidence 

 

Penny Sewell is slow, has short arms, didn't play any competition last year and is not as good as Slater.  

Yet he's "generational".

Talk about a PR machine. 

[bitonti]

1 minute ago, Peace Frog said:

Penny Sewell is slow, has short arms, didn't play any competition last year and is not as good as Slater.  

Yet he's "generational".

Talk about a PR machine. 

only 3 prospects have ever broad jumped more than 9 feet at 330 plus 

Jason Peters 

Andrew Whitworth

Penei Sewell 

end of list 

peters was a tight end prospect at the time 

 

[FTL Jet Fan]

6 pages about this kids arm length and hand size, can we judge these kids once they play in the NFL. It amazes me how many can predict the future on JN, no wonder I can’t stay off this site. 

[Tranquilo]

9 minutes ago, bitonti said:

yes his film looks impressive 

what's unimpressive is who that film is against  

the most elite quality about Zach Wilson is his PR machine and agents 

no one's done more to raise their draft stock with less actual evidence 

 

So how did you scout all the good QBs in the league who came from small schools?

[bitonti]

2 minutes ago, Tranquilo said:

So how did you scout all the good QBs in the league who came from small schools?

usually the QBs from small schools go to the Senior Bowl and prove it vs SEC and ACC type of athletes

or they go to the combine like Big Ben and Josh Allen and break the radar gun 

Wilson did neither 

his scouting report is based on hopes and dreams and film from the Idaho Potato Bowl 

that's not a joke. His freshman year he went to the idaho potato bowl. Yay? 

hey man it is what it is, they are going to take this kid, but it's a faith-based pick not evidence-based 

they are using this film vs no ones and extrapolating it out 

it better work out for JD because if he misses, they won't let him take another swing this big 

[Peace Frog]

Just now, bitonti said:

only 3 prospects have ever broad jumped more than 9 feet at 330 plus 

Jason Peters 

Andrew Whitworth

Penei Sewell 

end of list 

 

Broad jumps don't matter if your arms are so short you can't keep defenders off your body.  

[Tranquilo]

4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

usually the QBs from small schools go to the Senior Bowl and prove it vs SEC and ACC type of athletes

or they go to the combine like Big Ben and Josh Allen and break the radar gun 

Wilson did neither 

his scouting report is based on hopes and dreams and film from the Idaho Potato Bowl 

that's not a joke. His freshman year he went to the idaho potato bowl. Yay? 

hey man it is what it is, they are going to take this kid, but it's a faith-based pick not evidence-based 

they are using this film vs no ones and extrapolating it out 

it better work out for JD because if he misses, they won't let him take another swing this big 

Lol Senior Bowl?! Come on dude. 

"I wasn't sure about this guy but after that Senior Bowl, oh man."

[bitonti]

Just now, Peace Frog said:

Broad jumps don't matter if your arms are so short you can't keep defenders off your body.  

OL Arm length is like QB height 

you have to be a dinosaur to swear by it these days

last year there were 4 tackles, Andrew Thomas had the longest wingspan of the 4, 36 inch vines, he also had the worst year out of Wills, Wirfs and Becton. 

Alex Leatherwood has long arms, as does Christian Darrisaw, they are also soft players. Think Russell Okung.  

meanwhile Joe Thomas had 32 and a half inch arms and is the best of all time. Trent Williams I believe is also in the 33's he's currently the highest paid lineman in the game. 

OT arms are like QB height it's what the player does with their attributes not necessarily a baseline requirement 

there was a time, in the 80's and 90's when a player had to have height or they were Doug Flutie and OL with short arms were always guards 

times have changed, for all the positions

[bitonti]

Just now, Tranquilo said:

Lol Senior Bowl?! Come on dude. 

"I wasn't sure about this guy but after that Senior Bowl, oh man."

When a player comes from nowhere like Joe Flacco Delaware or Carson Wentz North Dakota it eases the mind of scouts to see guys do it vs legit competition 

Here's a question for you and all the Zach Wilson fans

where's his signature win? you love his film? what film is the best? 

his film against power 5 schools is crap and his great film is against crap foes. 

[Tranquilo]

8 minutes ago, bitonti said:

When a player comes from nowhere like Joe Flacco Delaware or Carson Wentz North Dakota it eases the mind of scouts to see guys do it vs legit competition 

Here's a question for you and all the Zach Wilson fans

where's his signature win? you love his film? what film is the best? 

his film against power 5 schools is crap and his great film is against crap foes. 

Easing someone's mind is different from actual scouting. You're conflating a feeling with the work. Just because you're worried because he didn't play in a meaningless exhibition game, doesn't mean the team hasn't prepped for this pick.

Getting mad at the pick because you yourself are unsure or you feel you yourself don't have enough information, doesn't make it a bad pick.

I also trust consensus and good organizations a bit more than you. The Jets aren't on an island. The Niners love this dude. That's a good sign.

[Peace Frog]

5 minutes ago, bitonti said:

OL Arm length is like QB height 

you have to be a dinosaur to swear by it these days

last year there were 4 tackles, Andrew Thomas had the longest wingspan of the 4, 36 inch vines, he also had the worst year out of Wills, Wirfs and Becton. 

Alex Leatherwood has long arms, as does Christian Darrisaw, they are also soft players. Think Russell Okung.  

meanwhile Joe Thomas had 32 and a half inch arms and is the best of all time. Trent Williams I believe is also in the 33's he's currently the highest paid lineman in the game. 

OT arms are like QB height it's what the player does with their attributes not necessarily a baseline requirement 

there was a time, in the 80's and 90's when a player had to have height or they were Doug Flutie and OL with short arms were always guards 

times have changed, for all the positions

Picking out long armed Tackles  that stunk or short armed Tackles that were great does not discount that short arms are not ideal for Offensive Lineman, especially Tackles and for a guy touted as "generational" it doesn't sound promissing.

Do I need to point out all the GREAT QBs shorter than Wilson or all the crap QBs much taller than Wilson?

See how that works.  

If you don't see the elite arm talent regardless of competition and don't hear (or choose to ignore) every single commentator oozing about his specail arm, not sure what do tell you.  

[kdels62]

36 minutes ago, bitonti said:

OL Arm length is like QB height 

you have to be a dinosaur to swear by it these days

last year there were 4 tackles, Andrew Thomas had the longest wingspan of the 4, 36 inch vines, he also had the worst year out of Wills, Wirfs and Becton. 

Alex Leatherwood has long arms, as does Christian Darrisaw, they are also soft players. Think Russell Okung.  

meanwhile Joe Thomas had 32 and a half inch arms and is the best of all time. Trent Williams I believe is also in the 33's he's currently the highest paid lineman in the game. 

OT arms are like QB height it's what the player does with their attributes not necessarily a baseline requirement 

there was a time, in the 80's and 90's when a player had to have height or they were Doug Flutie and OL with short arms were always guards 

times have changed, for all the positions

Nice how you mention that Andrew Thomas had the worst year but fail to note that the other 3 had above average years and all of them have longer arms than Sewell. Plus all 3 had better 40 times. You bring up Joe Thomas’s arms but don’t bring up that he jumped higher, ran faster and was more agile that Sewell, all traits that would work as a good counter to smaller arms.

[bitonti]

4 minutes ago, Tranquilo said:

Easing someone's mind is different from actual scouting. You're conflating a feeling with the work. Just because you're worried about because he didn't play in a meaningless exhibition game, doesn't mean the team hasn't prepped for this pick.

Getting mad at the pick because you yourself are unsure or you feel you yourself don't have enough information, doesn't make it a bad pick.

I also trust consensus and good organizations a bit more than you. The Jets aren't on an island. The Niners love this dude. That's a good sign.

there's a version of Zach Wilson's career where he goes to SFO and becomes a Pro Bowler 

because SFO has linemen, Kittle etc.  

the Jets are not ready for any QB and they certainly aren't ready to support this one

for the record I am not mad at the pick I am resigned to more Jets failure

what's the worst that can happen, I'm wrong and Zach Wilson takes the Jets to the super bowl? 

if Zach is a hof type QB I'll eat that crow all day and all night and you all can never let me forget it. I'd be happy to live in that world

yet somehow, after a lifetime of following this team, that's not an outcome I'm especially worried about 

[Tranquilo]

Just now, bitonti said:

there's a version of Zach Wilson's career where he goes to SFO and becomes a Pro Bowler 

because SFO has linemen, Kittle etc.  

the Jets are not ready for any QB and they certainly aren't ready to support this one

for the record I am not mad at the pick I am resigned to more Jets failure

what's the worst that can happen, I'm wrong and Zach Wilson takes the Jets to the super bowl? 

if Zach is a hof type QB I'll eat that crow all day and all night and you all can never let me forget it. I'd be happy to live in that world

yet somehow, after a lifetime of following this team, that's not an outcome I'm especially worried about 

I believe his talent will win out at the end and he'll be fine. I also think the line isn't as far away as people think, because Gase made the entire team worse than it actually is.

[Peace Frog]

11 minutes ago, Tranquilo said:

Lol Senior Bowl?! Come on dude. 

"I wasn't sure about this guy but after that Senior Bowl, oh man."

Guys blowing up the Senior Bowl is one of the worst measures of how good a player might be.  How many guys have WE drafted that folks were gushing about their Senior Bowl week of practices or games that ended up being meh.  Or worse.

[DoubleDown]

4 hours ago, bitonti said:

Mid range attributes deserve a mid range pick 

2 overall is an elite pick 

The original poster has a point: there's nothing physically special about Zach wilson 

This is nonsense.

What are the high end attributes of the last two first overall picks: Joe Burrow and Kyler Murray?  What is physically special about either one of them?

If a quarterback has adequate/mid range physical attributes, then his success in the NFL is all going to come down to his mental abilities.  There is no doubt that Wilson has the necessary size and arm strength to succeed in the NFL.  Whether he goes on to be a good/great player is going to come down to his ability to read defenses, process the game mentally, and instincts.

[bitonti]

7 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Picking out long armed Tackles  that stunk or short armed Tackles that were great does not discount that short arms are not ideal for Offensive Lineman, especially Tackles and for a guy touted as "generational" it doesn't sound promissing.

Do I need to point out all the GREAT QBs shorter than Wilson or all the crap QBs much taller than Wilson?

See how that works.  

If you don't see the elite arm talent regardless of competition and don't hear (or choose to ignore) every single commentator oozing about his specail arm, not sure what do tell you.  

if you can call Wilson elite despite not having elite height than I can call Sewell elite despite not having elite arm length - it's literally the same standard - we can call that a truce or you can try to live in a world of double standards 

aside from stats, 

Sewell's the only true sophomore to ever win the Outland Trophy. He has 2 NFL players in his family, uncles Isaac Sapoaga and Richard Brown (LB). It's not just that he's broad jumping well he also has pedigree. 

Side note I like Rashawn Slater (Father in the NBA) almost as much as I like Sewell. Slater has a better 3 cone, more professional demenor. He's also 1.5 years old (although neither are old). This is a Orlando Pace/Walter Jones situation and the Jets are once again going to pick neither 

 you can say whatever you want about these tackles, they are pretty clean prospects 

 

[bitonti]

4 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Guys blowing up the Senior Bowl is one of the worst measures of how good a player might be.  How many guys have WE drafted that folks were gushing about their Senior Bowl week of practices or games that ended up being meh.  Or worse.

oh i don't know how about NICK MANGOLD 

 

[bitonti]

Just now, DoubleDown said:

This is nonsense.

What are the high end attributes of the last two first overall picks: Joe Burrow and Kyler Murray?  What is physically special about either one of them?

If a quarterback has adequate/mid range physical attributes, then his success in the NFL is all going to come down to his mental abilities.  There is no doubt that Wilson has the necessary size and arm strength to succeed in the NFL.  Whether he goes on to be a good/great player is going to come down to his ability to read defenses, processing the game mentally, and instincts.

you don't say anything untrue in this statement

we're also allowed to be scared by complete lack of numbers involved with the bold statement 

it's a coinflip. Zach Wilson is a coinflip player

the linemen and Pitts these guys are GOING to be STARS for a long time 

Zach Wilson? i guess we will see 

 

[Peace Frog]

Just now, bitonti said:

if you can call Wilson elite despite not having elite height than I can call Sewell elite despite not having elite arm length - it's literally the same standard - we can call that a truce or you can try to live in a world of double standards 

 

I never said Wilson had elite height--I said he has elite arm talent, accuracy, release, escapability.  Things that actually matter for a QB.

At slightly over 6-2, his height is just fine.   Height does not matter for a QB.

Short arms on a Tackle matter.  You know.  For Tackles.  

[Peace Frog]

5 minutes ago, bitonti said:

oh i don't know how about NICK MANGOLD 

 

So did Nathan Shepard, Kenrick Ellis,  plenty more. 

[DoubleDown]

9 minutes ago, bitonti said:

you don't say anything untrue in this statement

we're also allowed to be scared by complete lack of numbers involved with the bold statement 

it's a coinflip. Zach Wilson is a coinflip player

the linemen and Pitts these guys are GOING to be STARS for a long time 

Zach Wilson? i guess we will see 

 

There are very few, if any, sure bets when it comes to NFL quarterbacks.  They are all coin flips unless you are talking about a generational prospect like Elway, Manning, and Luck.

Bottom line, the Jets need a quarterback above all else.  They are in a position where taking a coin flip quarterback is realistically the only choice.

[bitonti]

6 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

I never said Wilson had elite height--I said he has elite arm talent, accuracy, release, escapability.  Things that actually matter for a QB.

At slightly over 6-2, his height is just fine.   Height does not matter for a QB.

Short arms on a Tackle matter.  You know.  For Tackles.  

There's a stat 65% of first Rd tackles become starters or better (pro bowl all pro etc)

But we can say the same thing for only 45% of first Rd qbs 

Taking these individuals out of the equation, the ot1 is always going to be safer than qb2

[bitonti]

1 minute ago, DoubleDown said:

There are very few, if any, sure bets when it comes to NFL quarterbacks.  They are all coin flips unless you are talking about a generational prospect like Elway, Manning, and Luck.

Bottom line, the Jets need a quarterback above all else.  They are in a position where taking a coin flip quarterback is realistically the only choice.

I believe the Jets need to install an offense, switch to a 4-3, then take the qb 

They are opening the window early. We will see. I've been wrong before. I'm pretty sure this roster as constructed would also ruin Trevor, fwiw 

[Peace Frog]

2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

 

Taking these individuals out of the equation, the ot1 is always going to be safer than qb2

I didn't know you were comparing Slater to Trevor.  

[Scott Dierking]

6 minutes ago, bitonti said:

There's a stat 65% of first Rd tackles become starters or better (pro bowl all pro etc)

But we can say the same thing for only 45% of first Rd qbs 

Taking these individuals out of the equation, the ot1 is always going to be safer than qb2

“Always” is a 100% stat. Just saying

[Peace Frog]

4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

There's a stat 65% of first Rd tackles become starters or better (pro bowl all pro etc)

 

Tackles don't win SBs.

QBs win SBs.  Other than Ogden and Pace, none of the greatest Tackles in the last 20-30 years won a SB.  Ogden won because of that defense and Pace was all Warner.  

Anthony Munoz, Joe Thomas, Walter Jones, Tony Boselli, Wille Roaf, Tyron Smith, none of them.  

[DoubleDown]

13 minutes ago, bitonti said:

I believe the Jets need to install an offense, switch to a 4-3, then take the qb 

They are opening the window early. We will see. I've been wrong before. I'm pretty sure this roster as constructed would also ruin Trevor, fwiw 

I think this is a fair assessment.

The counter argument is that the Jets are hoping/planning to improve over the coming years which means they won't be picking at #2 again any time soon.  So the thought is to take the quarterback while they are in position to do so (without giving up multiple high end assets in a trade up), and try to build up the key areas around him as quickly as possible.  We'll see how the rest of their draft goes.  I'm hoping for heavy investment in OL and WR.

I was all for keeping Darnold for one more year and allowing Wilson (or other rookie) to sit on the bench and get acclimated to the NFL game.  It's been a long time since the Jets actually tried to groom a quarterback properly.  But that ship has obviously sailed.  We'll see what the Jets do about bringing in a veteran to hold the fort, but at this point, it's looking like Wilson will be thrown into the fire from day 1.