For curiosity's sake: Hurts or Jackson?

[Dcat]

Just curious.  If you could select Hurts or Lamar Jackson (with exactly same contracts as the one he signed today), which would it be?

[KRL]

Hurts is a dual threat QB who has drastically improved his play from the pocket.  To the point where he guided

his team to the SB.  That contract is crazy pricey and Hurts still has to prove he can be consistent on a year to year

basis but he is far ahead of Jackson right now

 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

Hurts. Seems to be more reliable. 

[Thai Jet]

You're asking a BAMA boy ? HURTS easily. More reliable, doesn't think run 1st,  better field general IMO. 

[jbt]

Lamar.  Was an MVP.  is a better passer than given credit for especially if you look at the WRs he has had

[JiFtheOracle]

Lamar.  Talent isnt even comparable.  Jalen played out of his mind and put up was an average year for Lamar on 1000000x better team  Very surprised the Eagles did this after 1 year of good play and middling numbers, you would think you would want to see it one more time before making him one the richest QB in the NFL but good for him, seems like a great kid.

[Kelly to Allen no huddle]

Just now, jbt said:

Lamar.  Was an MVP.  is a better passer than given credit for especially if you look at the WRs he has had

They've given Navy option Lamar tons of help 

They drafted Hollywood brown one of the best deep threats in the NFL 

They drafted Andrews and Hurst. Andrews is a top 3 all pro type te 

They brought in Sammy Watkins when he was 28. Watkins was big for mahomes in their runs 

They drafted Bateman who has wr1 traits and talent.  

They drafted duvernay and Wallace who have talent. 

 

People praised Greg Roman for designing a specific pistol style offense to fit navy option Lamar's skill set and then when he couldn't take another step and actually play quarterback, the media jumped on Roman.  

 

There's a reason nobody wants the guy...

 

 

[Kelly to Allen no huddle]

3 minutes ago, JiF said:

Lamar.  Talent isnt even comparable.  Jalen played out of his mind and put up was an average year for Lamar on 1000000x better team  Very surprised the Eagles did this after 1 year of good play and middling numbers, you would think you would want to see it one more time before making him one the richest QB in the NFL but good for him, seems like a great kid.

The delusional take here is breathtaking. If navy option Lamar can't play QB from the Pocket and learn to run an actual NFL passing offense like the west coast or Earnhardt -perkins he will wash out as a starter in a couple years. 

[JetPotato]

Jalen Hurts easily. But I've never smoked crack, so I can see how some would choose Lamar.

[jbt]

4 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen no huddle said:

They've given Navy option Lamar tons of help 

They drafted Hollywood brown one of the best deep threats in the NFL 

They drafted Andrews and Hurst. Andrews is a top 3 all pro type te 

They brought in Sammy Watkins when he was 28. Watkins was big for mahomes in their runs 

They drafted Bateman who has wr1 traits and talent.  

They drafted duvernay and Wallace who have talent. 

 

People praised Greg Roman for designing a specific pistol style offense to fit navy option Lamar's skill set and then when he couldn't take another step and actually play quarterback, the media jumped on Roman.  

 

There's a reason nobody wants the guy...

 

 

Brown is an ok WR but not a #1, who were the other WRs when he was there

I agree their TEs are top notch and Andrews has put up great numbers with Lamar throwing to him

Watkins sucks and is always hurt

Bateman is ok, won't be a #1

Duvernay and Wallace are ok depth

He has not had a true #1 WR while there

[oatmeal]

5 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen no huddle said:

They've given Navy option Lamar tons of help 

They drafted Hollywood brown one of the best deep threats in the NFL 

They drafted Andrews and Hurst. Andrews is a top 3 all pro type te 

They brought in Sammy Watkins when he was 28. Watkins was big for mahomes in their runs 

They drafted Bateman who has wr1 traits and talent.  

They drafted duvernay and Wallace who have talent. 

 

People praised Greg Roman for designing a specific pistol style offense to fit navy option Lamar's skill set and then when he couldn't take another step and actually play quarterback, the media jumped on Roman.  

 

There's a reason nobody wants the guy...

 

 

When you list the “help” Lamar has received his accomplishments look even more impressive 

[Barry McCockinner]

14 minutes ago, jbt said:

Lamar.  Was an MVP.  is a better passer than given credit for especially if you look at the WRs he has had

Lamar was an MVP 4 years ago and has missed 10 of the Ravens last 21 games. Hurts just played in the Superbowl and is an ascending player who did receive MVP votes last year.

That is to say, Hurts has been playing at a higher level than Lamar most recently.

[jetsons]

 

      If I "could" I would STILL select... neither

[Bobby816]

Easy for me... Hurts. Hurts is built to last longer in the NFL. He can actually throw the ball good. Lamar cant. His legs go. His career goes. 

[nycdan]

4 minutes ago, JiF said:

Lamar.  Talent isnt even comparable.  Jalen played out of his mind and put up was an average year for Lamar on 1000000x better team  Very surprised the Eagles did this after 1 year of good play and middling numbers, you would think you would want to see it one more time before making him one the richest QB in the NFL but good for him, seems like a great kid.

I find this take coming up a few times and it astounds me ever time.  Yes, Jalen put up great numbers that far exceeded his past production.  But his stats last year were far better than any season Lamar has had since 2019 and it's not really even close. 

You can debate that Lamar's numbers were hurt by the injuries the last two seasons, but isn't that part of what you are paying for?  Availability?  

Meanwhile, 2019 Lamar is living rent-free in many people's heads.  If you want to live in the past, wouldn't you rather have 2021 Herbert for the money?

[Kelly to Allen no huddle]

1 minute ago, jbt said:

Brown is an ok WR but not a #1, who were the other WRs when he was there

I agree their TEs are top notch and Andrews has put up great numbers with Lamar throwing to him

Watkins sucks and is always hurt

Bateman is ok, won't be a #1

Duvernay and Wallace are ok depth

He has not had a true #1 WR while there

Hollywood is among the best deep threats in the NFL. 

Why didn't Watkins suck with KC

Bateman literally does have wr1 traits.   

Andrews is elite.  

We know duvernay and Wallace are talented but because navy option Lamar can't utilize them we don't know how good they are.  

He has had plenty of help. 

The Ravens are giving him more this year.  They shipped out Roman. They'll probably draft another wr 

What's your excuse this year?

[Barry McCockinner]

3 minutes ago, jetsons said:

 

      If I "could" I would STILL select... neither

A Jets fan saying they wouldn't want Lamar or Hurts is hilarious when you look at our QB history. 

[Kelly to Allen no huddle]

1 minute ago, oatmeal said:

When you list the “help” Lamar has received his accomplishments look even more impressive 

When you don't think Sammy Watkins, Hollywood brown and Bateman and duvernay and Wallace are enough along with an all pro te, I just don't think you're dealing with reality...

 

Give those weapons to Allen, mahomes, Herbert they're going for 5000 yards

[oatmeal]

2 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen no huddle said:

When you don't think Sammy Watkins, Hollywood brown and Bateman and duvernay and Wallace are enough along with an all pro te, I just don't think you're dealing with reality...

 

Give those weapons to Allen, mahomes, Herbert they're going for 5000 yards

If you call that help then idk what to tell you.

[Kelly to Allen no huddle]

1 minute ago, oatmeal said:

If you call that help then idk what to tell you.

Okay why was Watkins really big for the chiefs?

You don't think Bateman has wr1 traits? 

You don't think Andrews is an all pro talent?

You don't think duvernay and Wallace have talent? 

You don't think Hollywood brown is one of the best deep threats?

[TuscanyTile2]

What about the help Hurts has?  Arguably the best OL in the sport.  Any QB can look good behind that kind of protection.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2022-nfl-offensive-line-rankings

[TuscanyTile2]

I think Lamar is clearly more talented but his style of play doesn't give you the longest shelf life before the decline starts (which it feels like it already has). 

[Barry McCockinner]

15 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

What about the help Hurts has?  Arguably the best OL in the sport.  Any QB can look good behind that kind of protection.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2022-nfl-offensive-line-rankings

Good QB's often make the o-line look better. Bad QB's often make the o-line look worse.

Sam Monson is a PFF tool and no one should ever take anything from PFF seriously.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

Jackson is the superior athlete, but Hurts is actually a QB who runs, not a RB who throws. There is a major difference. Its not even close, I would so much rather have Hurts than Jackson

[playtowinthegame]

Jalen Hurts over Le'Veon Jackson everyday and twice on Sunday's.

[JiFtheOracle]

1 hour ago, nycdan said:

I find this take coming up a few times and it astounds me ever time.  Yes, Jalen put up great numbers that far exceeded his past production.  But his stats last year were far better than any season Lamar has had since 2019 and it's not really even close. 

You can debate that Lamar's numbers were hurt by the injuries the last two seasons, but isn't that part of what you are paying for?  Availability?  

Meanwhile, 2019 Lamar is living rent-free in many people's heads.  If you want to live in the past, wouldn't you rather have 2021 Herbert for the money?

Yeah man, injuries play a factor obviously but what do you want me to say?  People are weird and prefer different things in life for different reasons.  People are subjective by nature and view things through jaded lenses, it's challenging to utilize context for some folks.  ie; Lamar is run first but Jalen isnt even though Jalen runs more than Lamar, Lamar cant pass from the pocket, yet, he has a higher Passing TD% than Hurts and the 2nd highest since the league merger behind only Patrick Mahomes, Hurts hasnt played a full season since entering the league but Lamar's "style" is more injury prone, there are people on the board actually arguing Lamar has a better team, Lamar is done yet he was firmly in the MVP conversation and his team in first place in the AFC when he was healthy, Top 5 scoring team to worst scoring team w/out Lamar, Minshew put up 35 pts in a start but the Ravens never scored over 17 w/out Lamar, etc. etc. etc.   Silly stuff, but what'ya going to do?  Just got to be real to yourself. 

 

 

[Smashmouth]

1 hour ago, Dcat said:

Just curious.  If you could select Hurts or Lamar Jackson (with exactly same contracts as the one he signed today), which would it be?

Hurts and its not even remotely close

[Kelly to Allen no huddle]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

Yeah man, injuries play a factor obviously but what do you want me to say?  People are weird and prefer different things in life for different reasons.  People are subjective by nature and view things through jaded lenses, it's challenging to utilize context for some folks.  ie; Lamar is run first but Jalen isnt even though Jalen runs more than Lamar, Lamar cant pass from the pocket, yet, he has a higher Passing TD% than Hurts and the 2nd highest since the league merger behind only Patrick Mahomes, Hurts hasnt played a full season since entering the league but Lamar's "style" is more injury prone, there are people on the board actually arguing Lamar has a better team, Lamar is done yet he was firmly in the MVP conversation and his team in first place in the AFC when he was healthy, Top 5 scoring team to bottom 5 scoring team w/out Lamar, Minshew put up 35 pts in a start but the Ravens never scored over 17 w/out Lamar, etc. etc. etc.   Silly stuff, but what'ya going to do?  Just got to be real to yourself. 

 

 

If tommy Frazier and cj Stroud have the same QB rating, ( from the pocket or not) is that indicative that they are the same quality passer? 

 

Because you're missing a massive reason why ppl don't like Lamar's skill set 

[extmenace]

Gotta factor in durability and longevity. Hurts wins both of those. Hurts also has a style that could evolve and age better where lamar relies almost entirely on his athleticism. When you factor in other positions like corner, rb, and etc where you need to be athletic, as they lose their athleticism, their productivity drops. Maybe lamar is better today, i can see the argument there if both are in perfect health, but I have little confidence that lamar will even be a starting qb in the league within 5 seasons. His skill set that makes him effective is also his biggest weakness. For lamar to be great, he’s going to take 100+ more hits than any other person playing the same position .

[JiFtheOracle]

5 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen no huddle said:

If tommy Frazier and cj Stroud have the same QB rating, ( from the pocket or not) is that indicative that they are the same quality passer? 

 

Because you're missing a massive reason why ppl don't like Lamar's skill set 

Who said anything about QB rating? 

[Kelly to Allen no huddle]

Just now, JiF said:

Who said anything about QB rating? 

Any metric

QB rating, the new qbr, y/attempt, td%

[playtowinthegame]

13 minutes ago, JiF said:

Yeah man, injuries play a factor obviously but what do you want me to say?  People are weird and prefer different things in life for different reasons.  People are subjective by nature and view things through jaded lenses, it's challenging to utilize context for some folks.  ie; Lamar is run first but Jalen isnt even though Jalen runs more than Lamar, Lamar cant pass from the pocket, yet, he has a higher Passing TD% than Hurts and the 2nd highest since the league merger behind only Patrick Mahomes, Hurts hasnt played a full season since entering the league but Lamar's "style" is more injury prone, there are people on the board actually arguing Lamar has a better team, Lamar is done yet he was firmly in the MVP conversation and his team in first place in the AFC when he was healthy, Top 5 scoring team to worst scoring team w/out Lamar, Minshew put up 35 pts in a start but the Ravens never scored over 17 w/out Lamar, etc. etc. etc.   Silly stuff, but what'ya going to do?  Just got to be real to yourself. 

 

 

How do their stats in the post-season compare?

[JiFtheOracle]

1 minute ago, Kelly to Allen no huddle said:

Any metric

QB rating, the new qbr, y/attempt, td%

idk, I'm confused, so I looked at more metrics and got more confused but I did notice that Lamar had 43 passing TD's in 1 season/16 starts and Jalen Hurts has 44 passing TD's in 3 seasons/34 starts.  I thought that was interesting.

[jtomm]

1 hour ago, JetPotato said:

Jalen Hurts easily. But I've never smoked crack, so I can see how some would choose Lamar.

This  ^^

[JiFtheOracle]

1 hour ago, playtowinthegame said:

How do their stats in the post-season compare?

Hurts has a much better playoff record and stats.  Definitely has nothing to do w/  the team he plays for and the conference he plays in though, that's for sure.