undertow Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 5 minutes ago, Warfish said: What were we wrong about? The Jets had no interest, the rest of the NFL had no interest, only the Ravens did. And he got the 5-year, $250M+ contract he was demanding, he just didn't get 100% guaranteed (only about 70% of it). Pretty much what most of us thought all along. I guess the Ravens weren't in on the collusion then too. The next five years will determine the "is he worth that price" question, where most of us could in fact be proven wrong and guys like JiF could be proven right, if he's a stud all 5 years and stays healthy. Exactly everyone knew Jackson was gonna get a ton of money the interesting part of this negotiation was are team gonna give players fully guaranteed contract over 5 years or was the Watson contract a one off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Ghost Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 21 minutes ago, Warfish said: The next five years will determine the "is he worth that price" question, where most of us could in fact be proven wrong and guys like JiF could be proven right, if he's a stud all 5 years and stays healthy. is this the same bar you hold all athletes to? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetblue95 Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 1 minute ago, GreenFish said: To piggy back off this, here’s where both sides started 1) Ravens: 3 years $133M fully gtd 2) Lamar: 5 years $250M fully gtd Where they ended. 5 years 260M with $185M fully gtd. They essentially met in the middle. And a better deal than Hurts got. not sure if we know the full details yet. and the original offer was not 3 years, $133MM fully-guaranteed. that is some mischaracterization which has been run with, but not accurate according to the various reporting by schefter and mort and others. https://www.si.com/nfl/ravens/news/baltimore-ravens-lamar-jackson-contract-franchise-tag-guaranteed-eric-decosta 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Ghost Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 10 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said: He won't be "highest paid" for very long. Herbert and Burrow are still waiting for their deals. And what choice did they have? Roll with Huntley? Trade their entire draft for the right to select Anthony Richardson and then hope in 3 years, he's half as good as Lamar is right now? Um… okay? Who signs the highest contract thinking it will always be that? As far as their choice? You kinda answered it in your next paragraph, no? The Ravens looked at their options and made a decision. This ain’t no charity, man, and it ain’t a hobby either. It’s a business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 I'll repeat my comment about lamar and this goes for many QBs in the league these days. To be mvp lamar the true weapon he is he has to run and run a lot. When you run a lot you get hurt or at east nicked, then comes the obvious, we have to protect him and not let him run and he is not longer weapon lamar. I see the same thing happening to Josh Allen, he even talked about it, 'I have to run less and not put myself at risk' It is not just all the extra first downs long runs and scores but the actual threat teams have to game plan for. If I'm a opposing team my wish is, by all means protect you 50 million qb and not put him at risk, that makes our job a lot easier. Now are these guys going to be bums by not running as much? No of course not they are good but a drop back lamar is not an mvp caliber player. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undertow Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 6 minutes ago, jetblue95 said: not sure if we know the full details yet. and the original offer was not 3 years, $133MM fully-guaranteed. that is some mischaracterization which has been run with, but not accurate according to the various reporting by schefter and mort and others. https://www.si.com/nfl/ravens/news/baltimore-ravens-lamar-jackson-contract-franchise-tag-guaranteed-eric-decosta I'm sure the reported offer was a bit low for PR purposes.....Hurts signing an extension helped everyone out by laying out a blue print for a fair offer and Jackson waiting probably made himself an extra 20-30 mil or something but he didn't get the fully guaranteed Watson contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Ghost Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 2 minutes ago, Beerfish said: I'll repeat my comment about lamar and this goes for many QBs in the league these days. To be mvp lamar the true weapon he is he has to run and run a lot. When you run a lot you get hurt or at east nicked, then comes the obvious, we have to protect him and not let him run and he is not longer weapon lamar. I see the same thing happening to Josh Allen, he even talked about it, 'I have to run less and not put myself at risk' It is not just all the extra first downs long runs and scores but the actual threat teams have to game plan for. If I'm a opposing team my wish is, by all means protect you 50 million qb and not put him at risk, that makes our job a lot easier. Now are these guys going to be bums by not running as much? No of course not they are good but a drop back lamar is not an mvp caliber player. Where do QBs get hurt most often? In the pocket or outside of it? If you answer outside, you’re wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Ghost Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 Just now, undertow said: I'm sure the reported offer was a bit low for PR purposes.....Hurts signing an extension helped everyone out by laying out a blue print for a fair offer and Jackson waiting probably made himself an extra 20-30 mil or something but he didn't get the fully guaranteed Watson contract. You can’t get past that, can you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
32EBoozer Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 55 minutes ago, Green Ghost said: ThE gUY nEEdS tO gET aN AgEnT!!! What is the normal agent % on a deal like that? 3%? Lamaar saved.. what $7-$8 mil? Was it worth it in the long run? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undertow Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 Just now, Green Ghost said: You can’t get past that, can you? Again I'm not emotionally invested I'm interested in the contract structures going forward....just like the Rodgers deal people are invested in "who won" or "who got owned" the truth is they met in the middle....Jackson is the highest paid QB in the league and the Ravens are not on the hook for 5 years if there's an injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyT Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 1 hour ago, Larz said: Rapoport 5 years , $260 more than hurts Good luck keeping him upright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly to Allen no huddle Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 4 minutes ago, Beerfish said: I'll repeat my comment about lamar and this goes for many QBs in the league these days. To be mvp lamar the true weapon he is he has to run and run a lot. When you run a lot you get hurt or at east nicked, then comes the obvious, we have to protect him and not let him run and he is not longer weapon lamar. I see the same thing happening to Josh Allen, he even talked about it, 'I have to run less and not put myself at risk' It is not just all the extra first downs long runs and scores but the actual threat teams have to game plan for. If I'm a opposing team my wish is, by all means protect you 50 million qb and not put him at risk, that makes our job a lot easier. Now are these guys going to be bums by not running as much? No of course not they are good but a drop back lamar is not an mvp caliber player. Josh Allen runs the Earnhardt -perkins offense. The same offense Brady ran for two decades. Less than 10% of Allen runs are designed. It's usually him scrambling to find an open wr or get the first down, similar to Elway or Roger Staubach, big Ben , mahomes etc... Lamar runs the pistol offense, and triple, double option and other rpo stuff. His game is predicted first off his running threat... Allen, mahomes are great passing qbs who's game is based off passing who have the mobility as a plus.... Lamar is the opposite. Lamar has a traditional oc this year so we'll see if he can pass it at a high level consistently with much more volume in the passing attack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetblue95 Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 3 minutes ago, Green Ghost said: Where do QBs get hurt most often? In the pocket or outside of it? If you answer outside, you’re wrong. of course that is just statistics since i'm sure the proportion of time in the pocket exceeds the proportion of time outside the pocket while sampling all QBs for every play. do really think a dual threat QB like lamar is at less of a risk of injury over the long-run than a traditional pocket passer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly to Allen no huddle Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 If anything buffalo needs to protect Allen more by improving the offensive line and create an actual running game that is truly respected. It took Denver 15 years to figure it out with Elway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Ghost Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 “HA! HE DIDN’T GET A FULLY GUARANTEED CONTRACT!!!” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly to Allen no huddle Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 5 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said: What is the normal agent % on a deal like that? 3%? Lamaar saved.. what $7-$8 mil? Was it worth it in the long run? A lawyer on retainer looking over the contract probably eats up some of that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 10 minutes ago, Green Ghost said: Where do QBs get hurt most often? In the pocket or outside of it? If you answer outside, you’re wrong. That is not the point it is the perception of where they get hurt. Lamar got hurt the last two years. They have paid him a gazillion dollars, they are not going to happily design an offense and have him put himself at risk all the time. And it only takes one injury to come via running to have teams get panicky and try and 'reduce the risk' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly to Allen no huddle Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 4 minutes ago, Green Ghost said: “HA! HE DIDN’T GET A FULLY GUARANTEED CONTRACT!!!” Who would you rather have, Rodgers or Lamar? I'm taking Rodgers even at his age every time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Ghost Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 3 minutes ago, jetblue95 said: of course that is just statistics since i'm sure the proportion of time in the pocket exceeds the proportion of time outside the pocket while sampling all QBs for every play. do really think a dual threat QB like lamar is at less of a risk of injury over the long-run than a traditional pocket passer? Most injuries are from hits you don’t see coming. With the rules in place now it’s more likely a blind side shot in the pocket or getting hit while throwing rather than one where you see the field in front of you while running (and can slide and not be hit) will be the cause of injury. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Ghost Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 8 minutes ago, Beerfish said: That is not the point it is the perception of where they get hurt. Lamar got hurt the last two years. They have paid him a gazillion dollars, they are not going to happily design an offense and have him put himself at risk all the time. And it only takes one injury to come via running to have teams get panicky and try and 'reduce the risk' How many “pocket passers” have gotten injured the last two years? News Flash… football is a rough game. QBs get hurt. Ask them. On the Jets last year Zach and White. Tua. Stafford. The entire 49er QB room. They had to use a freaking RB to play QB in the Super Bowl! I could keep naming more, but come on with this nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batman10023 Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 39 minutes ago, Waka Flocka Flacco said: He missed out on 41 million dollars cash in 2021 and 2022 trying to get a fully-guaranteed contract. He wound up with traditional quarterback structure. That is an unqualified disaster. Calling it anything else is ludicrous, and calling it 'did fine' is patronizing to boot. baloney. unqualified disaster - lol. his decision to not take a contract a year ago was a mistake. i have said that repeatedly the math wouldn't work out for him. but this contract is fine and good for him assuming nothing funky. a disaster would have been playing on the tag for 2 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New York Mick Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 That’s a lot for an injury prone running QB but not surprising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 What? He ended up staying in Baltimore with the Ravens? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batman10023 Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 40 minutes ago, GreenFish said: To piggy back off this, here’s where both sides started this offseason 1) Ravens: 3 years $133M fully gtd 2) Lamar: 5 years $250M fully gtd Where they ended. 5 years 260M with $185M fully gtd. They essentially met in the middle. And a better deal than Hurts got. Both sides gave in. he most likely isn't getting 185mm fully gtd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New York Mick Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 21 minutes ago, Green Ghost said: Where do QBs get hurt most often? In the pocket or outside of it? If you answer outside, you’re wrong. Seriously lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy2020 Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 guess he finally realized fully guaranteed wasn't happening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly to Allen no huddle Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 15 minutes ago, Green Ghost said: Where do QBs get hurt most often? In the pocket or outside of it? If you answer outside, you’re wrong. This is repeatedly said yet doesn't make sense. Firstly the Classic Can Newton example. Cam was never a great passing qb and was more like Lamar an rpo QB. Cam ripped up his shoulder in the pocket. He was never the same afterwards. But it wasn't because cam was a physical runner, it was literally because Cam was never a great passer and his shoulder was permanently damaged in the pocket. The exact same thing happened to Pennington. Secondly the issue isn't with mobile qbs. It's total hits inside and outside the Pocket and rpo QBs... The difference between Josh Allen, Steve Young or Warren Moon and Cam newton, Tim Tebow or Lamar, is that the rpo qbs need that offense to function as a passer. Guys like Mahomes or Allen can sit back 50x and never run and dice you up. Newton and Lamar can't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Ghost Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 21 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said: What is the normal agent % on a deal like that? 3%? Lamaar saved.. what $7-$8 mil? Was it worth it in the long run? That’s for him to answer, no? He has 260 million reasons not to care though, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Harper Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 1 hour ago, Warfish said: Good for him. Hope we crush him if we face him again. Especially in the playoffs. It depends on whether it is one of the six games a year that he plays. This could be a franchise crippling deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly to Allen no huddle Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 Mobile qbs are nothing new. Staubach, Tarkenton , Cunningham did the same stuff decades ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Ghost Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 14 minutes ago, Kelly to Allen no huddle said: Who would you rather have, Rodgers or Lamar? I'm taking Rodgers even at his age every time Very happy to have Rodgers, but I’ll take Lamar over him if I could. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly to Allen no huddle Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 14 minutes ago, Green Ghost said: Most injuries are from hits you don’t see coming. With the rules in place now it’s more likely a blind side shot in the pocket or getting hit while throwing rather than one where you see the field in front of you while running (and can slide and not be hit) will be the cause of injury. Allen hurt his elbow in the pocket because Quessenberry is a BUM!!! DRAFT OLINE BEANE !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetblue95 Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 Just now, Green Ghost said: I’ll take Lamar. lamar will likely play longer given their respective ages but for each of the last 3 seasons, rodgers has been the better QB, even in his down 2022 season with a broken thumb for the next 2, i'd take rodgers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 1 hour ago, Kelly to Allen no huddle said: Probably one of the dumber contracts in NFL history if true. This guy is in danger of not even starting in a couple years if he can't run an NFL offense. Beyond bizarre He was getting paid. Nothing dumb about it, it’s what QBs like Lamar get. And he didn’t get it guaranteed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Ghost Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 3 minutes ago, jetblue95 said: lamar will likely play longer given their respective ages but for each of the last 3 seasons, rodgers has been the better QB, even in his down 2022 season with a broken thumb for the next 2, i'd take rodgers. Is there a wrong answer? I don’t think so….?♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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