derp Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 4 minutes ago, JustInFudge said: True, 7, 6, 6 - so the 8 range is off a bit but then 5 years ago it was like 22, so probably averages out in that rage. Andrew Thomas is the only top 5 and he's a meh and meh gets. Ironically, I'd argue the only top T off the board who was actually the best in that draft was Sewell who went at 7, but I digress. Obviously I think Bowers is unique so I'm not worried about missing. I'd argue after Harrison Jr. he's the safest pick in the draft. And I agree, WR > TE for sure but I like Bowers more then I like the WR's not named Harrison Jr. That said, those WR are 100% in play when Bowers is off the board and the Jets are on the clock...I just dont love this class all that much...maybe Nabers. I like Nabers, though I have some questions - I specifically like his fit. I agree it gets kind of fuzzy after that. It sucks because the team is so bad and needs a lot of help. I think it's hard to quantify the impact of a tight end, which I think you've alluded to in other posts. I also don't think that the team has handled depth, drafting, or development of the offensive line well. Starters made of glass requiring veteran backups with limited upside which caps the amount of young players they can develop. And they toss away mid round picks in trades anyway. I'd rather they spend enough mid-round picks on linemen to just churn through the ones who are bad and try to find some guys than toss away mid-round picks and then hold onto the linemen they take there for dear life, but now I digress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 1 hour ago, JustInFudge said: It's hard to have this conversation w/ you because you've never seen Bowers play and obviously dont understand his talent. He's like CMC in a TE's body. You've also just kind of like made up arbitrary stats as if they are some type of bar but you also only used one reference point. I mean, idk, I think you need to understand the player and his capabilities before vs. just using made up generic material to estimate the value he can bring to the team w/ out any context. For example; Conklin didnt score this year and his very best year w/ Cousins he scored 3 times. He was around 40% 1st down conversion rate on his receptions, which is in line w/ his career average. What if Bowers catches the same amount of passes and yards or less catches but more yards and/or has 75% conversion rate and/or 8 TD's? (he has 6 rushing TD's on his career at Georgia, average 10.9 ypc on 19 carries) What if he adds 3 rushing TD's on the ground and picks up a few short yardage runs too? For a team that has the least amount of first downs and TD's in the NFL, that would be a significant value add and would do more for the team then a guy who does what a lot of guys can do. And that's completely regardless of the fact that, yes, I think Bowers could potentially double Conklin's numbers and there really arent any great T prospects this year but it is a rather deep class, just like every single year because T's are super easy to find whereas guys like Bowers are extremely rare. Fair enough. Understand, I'm just going by position, and trust your judgment on individual prospects more than my own. It's just that (again) at that position, anything less than home run production not just home run talent makes it a big regret in hindsight. So is your assessment that there aren't any great T prospects this year at all, or is it that there aren't any great T prospects likely to drop to #10? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Wooty Doo Doo Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 TE at 10 ? Only Jets faithful. sm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said: Fair enough. Understand, I'm just going by position, and trust your judgment on individual prospects more than my own. It's just that (again) at that position, anything less than home run production not just home run talent makes it a big regret in hindsight. So is your assessment that there aren't any great T prospects this year at all, or is it that there aren't any great T prospects likely to drop to #10? Don't let him dress you down like that. He changed his name to Justin Fudge for christs sake. It's almost as bad of a handle as yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 56 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said: Fair enough. Understand, I'm just going by position, and trust your judgment on individual prospects more than my own. It's just that (again) at that position, anything less than home run production not just home run talent makes it a big regret in hindsight. So is your assessment that there aren't any great T prospects this year at all, or is it that tFhere aren't any great T prospects likely to drop to #10? I guess "great" is subjective but there isnt one guy that I think stands out above the rest and or is head and shoulders better then the rest. So in that regard, if it is a T at 10, I dont think they're missing out on anything special or settling so to speak. Your splitting hairs between the top 3-4 guys and honestly, it's probably more scheme fit dependent vs. one prospect is just outstanding and puts the others to shame ie; Fashanu excels in pass pro, Fuaga is a mauler. It's just like every year, every class when it comes to T. A few first round prospects and a ton of good looking potential starters to be found in the mid-rounds. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetswin Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 23 hours ago, BigRy56 said: Yes. Move Ruckert to FB and run Conklin & Bowers as TEs. Move heaven and earth for one of these elite WRs hitting the market... Tee Higgins? If they do that, the Jets would be way above average in the offensive weapons category. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neckdemon Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 2 hours ago, JustInFudge said: You asked the question. it wasn't a question it was statement. and you aren't really right. it's said many times that there is a lack of quality olinemen in the nfl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neckdemon Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 30 minutes ago, Pac said: Don't let him dress you down like that. He changed his name to Justin Fudge for christs sake. It's almost as bad of a handle as yours. who is it? a guy with 92k posts but i don't recognize the name 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 50 minutes ago, neckdemon said: who is it? a guy with 92k posts but i don't recognize the name JiFruitcake 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 1 hour ago, Pac said: Don't let him dress you down like that. He changed his name to Justin Fudge for christs sake. It's almost as bad of a handle as yours. Actually @The Crusher changed it 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 1 hour ago, JustInFudge said: I guess "great" is subjective but there isnt one guy that I think stands out above the rest and or is head and shoulders better then the rest. So in that regard, if it is a T at 10, I dont think they're missing out on anything special or settling so to speak. Your splitting hairs between the top 3-4 guys and honestly, it's probably more scheme fit dependent vs. one prospect is just outstanding and puts the others to shame ie; Fashanu excels in pass pro, Fuaga is a mauler. It's just like every year, every class when it comes to T. A few first round prospects and a ton of good looking potential starters to be found in the mid-rounds. Well I'm sympathetic with that take if you're right. In 2022 the omg was we had to take "Ickey" and after getting his rookie lumps out of the way he just gave up 11 sacks this year and had as many penalties as Becton ffs, and his suck was only eclipsed by the useless stiff the Giants took right after him who - injury aside - isn't even deserving of the starting RT job on the last place Giants. I don't know who's going to play LT, but I guess they could suck it up for a year with Jonah and then move him to RT a year later, unless they get lucky with a rookie 3rd round tackle this year. I'd still be totally nervous taking a TE that early anyway. I yam what I yam. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 26 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said: Actually @The Crusher changed it I know.. Way to step on the joke killjoy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustiniak Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 22 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said: Well I'm sympathetic with that take if you're right. In 2022 the omg was we had to take "Ickey" and after getting his rookie lumps out of the way he just gave up 11 sacks this year and had as many penalties as Becton ffs, and his suck was only eclipsed by the useless stiff the Giants took right after him who - injury aside - isn't even deserving of the starting RT job on the last place Giants. I don't know who's going to play LT, but I guess they could suck it up for a year with Jonah and then move him to RT a year later, unless they get lucky with a rookie 3rd round tackle this year. I'd still be totally nervous taking a TE that early anyway. I yam what I yam. Douglas hasn’t used a first rounder on non premium positions yet. Doubt we’ll see one used on aTE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 1 minute ago, Pac said: I know.. Way to step on the joke killjoy. It's not a joke. He really changed it. I don't know what you're joking about but we have strict rules here, papi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 7 minutes ago, Pac said: I know.. Way to step on the joke killjoy. Yeah, really blew his load on that one. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 7 minutes ago, Augustiniak said: Douglas hasn’t used a first rounder on non premium positions yet. Doubt we’ll see one used on aTE. WR, QB, Edge and LT are not premium positions? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Just now, Sperm Edwards said: It's not a joke. He really changed it. I don't know what you're joking about but we have strict rules here, papi. I know that he changed it bruh.. You get so cranky in the offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 2 minutes ago, Augustiniak said: Douglas hasn’t used a first rounder on non premium positions yet. Doubt we’ll see one used on aTE. He traded two day-2 picks to move up to take a guard inside the top 15 in an OL-rich draft. Granted guard is more premium than TE, but it's not QB, LT, WR, CB, EDGE, DT either. Also wasn't the leak that his 2nd rated available prospect last year was Mayer if McDonald went off the board, or - had he fallen 3 more slots - Jahmyr Gibbs ahead of any of them? Really it'd depend what he does in FA. If he gets two starting tackles, then I think anything goes. It's not far-fetched that he goes all in to re-sign Becton before FA starts, and then rolls out the red carpet for Jonah Williams. In that case he's not taking a round 1 tackle no matter who falls to #10. Then it's likely to be the best offensive skill position player that isn't a RB. That leaves TE and WR. Senior Bowl, combine, pro day, etc. sorts that out. Generally it would more or less violate my religion to take a TE that early, but I do love fudge so I'm suddenly more conflicted than I'd ever be. I'd typically lean towards WR over TE pretty much every time, but it's also probably true that 1st round WRs have a higher bust rate. I'm not a guy to rate these prospects, so all I see is position. At least I'm honest about it. Anyhow as long as it isn't a center at #10 overall I'm good with anyone who turns into a stud on offense. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustiniak Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 8 minutes ago, The Crusher said: WR, QB, Edge and LT are not premium positions? He’s only drafted premium positions in round 1 so far. That’s why i doubt he goes TE in round 1. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 6 minutes ago, Pac said: I know that he changed it bruh.. You get so cranky in the offseason. But it's not a joke. You're treading on really thin ice here. Don't make me do something I don't want to do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 31 minutes ago, Augustiniak said: He’s only drafted premium positions in round 1 so far. That’s why i doubt he goes TE in round 1. Oh my bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 31 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said: But it's not a joke. You're treading on really thin ice here. Don't make me do something I don't want to do. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet_Engine1 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 On 1/8/2024 at 2:59 AM, JoeNamathsFurCoat said: Would be one of the dumbest picks ever, even by embarrassing NYJ standards 6'4, 240lb receiving weapon that runs around a 4.5 and blocks better than Mekhi Becton. Yeah. Stupid. What could the Jets do with a guy like that, anyway... 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionelRichie Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 55 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said: 6'4, 240lb receiving weapon that runs around a 4.5 and blocks better than Mekhi Becton. Yeah. Stupid. What could the Jets do with a guy like that, anyway... I don’t anything about Bowers but I know JN and the same people crushing a TE at 10 will be crushing JD for letting Bowers get away at 9 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derp Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said: He traded two day-2 picks to move up to take a guard inside the top 15 in an OL-rich draft. Granted guard is more premium than TE, but it's not QB, LT, WR, CB, EDGE, DT either. Also wasn't the leak that his 2nd rated available prospect last year was Mayer if McDonald went off the board, or - had he fallen 3 more slots - Jahmyr Gibbs ahead of any of them? Really it'd depend what he does in FA. If he gets two starting tackles, then I think anything goes. It's not far-fetched that he goes all in to re-sign Becton before FA starts, and then rolls out the red carpet for Jonah Williams. In that case he's not taking a round 1 tackle no matter who falls to #10. Then it's likely to be the best offensive skill position player that isn't a RB. That leaves TE and WR. Senior Bowl, combine, pro day, etc. sorts that out. Generally it would more or less violate my religion to take a TE that early, but I do love fudge so I'm suddenly more conflicted than I'd ever be. I'd typically lean towards WR over TE pretty much every time, but it's also probably true that 1st round WRs have a higher bust rate. I'm not a guy to rate these prospects, so all I see is position. At least I'm honest about it. Anyhow as long as it isn't a center at #10 overall I'm good with anyone who turns into a stud on offense. I’d guess the WR bust rate is lower than TE. I too love fudge. What’s a little interesting about TE versus guard is that the fifth year option structure for iOL that ropes them in with tackles really demolishes the value of the fifth year option at that position group. At least with TE if the guy is pretty good you can probably feel alright about the fifth year option whereas as an iOL the guy has to be absolutely dominant. If they never take another iOL in the first it’ll be too soon. LaPorta is stepping on the development timeline a little but those guys have been slow to develop too. Hockenson just started to come along in time for the Lions to move on from him and get no real value out of his rookie deal. We’ll see what happens with Pitts under a new coaching staff. Hard to get surplus value out of the rookie deal for multiple reasons. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCJet Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 8 hours ago, Untouchable said: Bowers is built different One of the things that makes him so appealing is his blocking prowess both inline and on the move. He’s very Kittle-esque and is one of the most dangerous players after the catch, regardless of position, that I’ve seen come out in a long time. He’s a real TE with the added benefit of being used as a dangerous, oversized slot receiver. I’d take him at #10, pair him with Conklin and Ruckert, and run more 12 and 13 personnel than any team in the league by far. Minimizes the need for a 1b/upper tier #2 wideout, provides extra protection for Rodgers, opens up more holes for Breece, and keeps defensive coaches sh*tting their pants wondering how they’re going to defend between the hashmarks. I was advocating for a lot more 12 personnel ever since we drafted Ruckert who I think has been criminally underused by our terrible offensive staff so philosophically I understand what you are saying. There issue I have is that if you do this, you immediately have to change your offense to suit Bowers and that takes a smart staff who can come up with creative pass plays out of 3 TE sets and im not sure we have that type of staff. Even defensively we run 1 thing and really struggle to adjust in game or as matchups dictate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet_Engine1 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 1 minute ago, BCJet said: I was advocating for a lot more 12 personnel ever since we drafted Ruckert who I think has been criminally underused by our terrible offensive staff so philosophically I understand what you are saying. There issue I have is that if you do this, you immediately have to change your offense to suit Bowers and that takes a smart staff who can come up with creative pass plays out of 3 TE sets and im not sure we have that type of staff. Even defensively we run 1 thing and really struggle to adjust in game or as matchups dictate. Remember that time way back when, the Jets O line sucked and the QB was panicking on every drop back, and instead of adjusting to 2 TE and a FB, they just kept doing the same sh*t over and over again? Yeah. That was cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted January 10 Author Share Posted January 10 3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said: Also wasn't the leak that his 2nd rated available prospect last year was Mayer if McDonald went off the board, or - had he fallen 3 more slots - Jahmyr Gibbs ahead of any of them? I also remember hearing that they would've Gibbs if he fell to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbstern Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 5 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said: 6'4, 240lb receiving weapon that runs around a 4.5 and blocks better than Mekhi Becton. Yeah. Stupid. What could the Jets do with a guy like that, anyway... Ruin him? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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