Bowers vs. Kincaid

[Augustiniak]

3 minutes ago, slats said:

My concern with the player is that 48% of his catches came from behind the LOS, and all of the rest seem to happen more than 10 yards down the field. The area where a TE is expected to dominate is in that 0-9 range where he’s never anywhere to be found. That’s understandable to me, because he’s a little undersized. Of course, that’s also a little red flag. That and his lingering hamstring in April. I really liked Jelani Woods two years ago and he missed all of last season with hamstring issues. 
 
I respect your opinion. You’ve forgotten more about college football than I will ever know. But I really struggle to see this player recreate his dominance at the pro level without some really creative coaching (which I don’t believe this team has available). 

The two issues i have with bowers at 10 are 1) he’s just not a home run threat, his best highlights are yard chunks but not the kind rome or nabers would get, and 2) they need OT more and can find decent wrs on day 2.  I really do think bowers will be a good player and if the jets take him, unless the OC is completely incompetent (never rule that out here), he’s going to get catches, yac and make a difference.  Rodgers is going to put a premium on getting the ball out quicker and having breece, Bowes and garrett and whoever else is going to help.  

Yet, i maintain the best use of the pick is a guy like fuaga, either at 10 or ideally in a trade back a few slots.  Then you tap into the deep wr pool day 2 and that’s the best use of draft capital.  If the jets were picking 22 and took this guy, and had a decent OL already I’d have no issues with this

[Guilhermezmc]

People are bitching about the value of a TE  but seem to forget that the Jets are probably drafting a guard or a RT at 10.

Fuaga and that Washington dude are guards in the NFL and you should never draft a tackle from Alabama. 

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, Guilhermezmc said:

People are bitching about the value of a TE  but seem to forget that the Jets are probably drafting a guard or a RT at 10.

Fuaga and that Washington dude are guards in the NFL and you should never draft a tackle from Alabama. 

Rt is a premium position.

[JustInFudge]

6 minutes ago, slats said:

My concern with the player is that 48% of his catches came from behind the LOS, and all of the rest seem to happen more than 10 yards down the field. The area where a TE is expected to dominate is in that 0-9 range where he’s never anywhere to be found. That’s understandable to me, because he’s a little undersized. Of course, that’s also a little red flag. That and his lingering hamstring in April. I really liked Jelani Woods two years ago and he missed all of last season with hamstring issues. 
 
I respect your opinion. You’ve forgotten more about college football than I will ever know. But I really struggle to see this player recreate his dominance at the pro level without some really creative coaching (which I don’t believe this team has available). 

Look, I dont know when this became a thing but this stat that everyone is harping, is legit one of the dumbest things I've seen during the predraft tear down process.  It's right up there w/ Watson and MPH, Pat Mahomes doesnt hit NFL windows and Justin Jefferson only got open in the slot.  It's just utter stupidity.

Instead of addressing it, I'll just ask you a few questions in response; 

Where is this data for his freshman and sophomore year playing under Todd Monken, you know, the NFL OC who just coached, "he'll never win another MVP again", Lamar Jackson to an MVP? 

Why is this data only available for this last season w/ a new OC and first year starting QB?  Why does nobody talk about that when they reference this stupid data point? 

And why isnt a positive that he's shown he can thrive in 2 different systems that use him slightly different?  Where I come from, that tells me he is in fact, not scheme dependent and has shown he can succeed in 2 different system, w/ 2 very different QB's but that's not the story is it?  

 

[Untouchable]

1 minute ago, Guilhermezmc said:

People are bitching about the value of a TE  but seem to forget that the Jets are probably drafting a guard or a RT at 10.

Fuaga and that Washington dude are guards in the NFL and you should never draft a tackle from Alabama. 

Damn near all of these OL besides Alt and Fashanu are being pegged as better fits at guard in the pros.

That’s probably the biggest thing that’s turning me off from an OT at #10.

Unless Odunze or Nabers falls into our laps, I’m staunchly in the Bowers camp.

[slats]

2 minutes ago, JustInFudge said:

Look, I dont know when this became a thing but this stat that everyone is harping, is legit one of the dumbest things I've seen during the predraft tear down process.  It's right up there w/ Watson and MPH, Pat Mahomes doesnt hit NFL windows and Justin Jefferson only got open in the slot.  It's just utter stupidity.

Instead of addressing it, I'll just ask you a few questions in response; 

Where is this data for his freshman and sophomore year playing under Todd Monken, you know, the NFL OC who just coached, "he'll never win another MVP again", Lamar Jackson to an MVP? 

Why is this data only available for this last season w/ a new OC and first year starting QB?  Why does nobody talk about that when they reference this stupid data point? 

And why isnt a positive that he's shown he can thrive in 2 different systems that use him slightly different?  Where I come from, that tells me he is in fact, not scheme dependent and has shown he can succeed in 2 different system, w/ 2 very different QB's but that's not the story is it?  

 

Lol, I’d feel a lot better about him if the Todd Monken was the Jets’ OC. 
 
If the Jets take him, I’ll root like hell for him. I’m a glass half full kinda guy. If he turns out to be great, I’ll be happy to tell you how right you were about him. I’m not saying he’s gonna suck, that’s for sure. However, I still think a ‘tweener TE at #10 is a very risky pick. Especially on a team with genuine needs at WR and on the OL that has no second round pick. 

[jvill 51]

7 minutes ago, JustInFudge said:

Look, I dont know when this became a thing but this stat that everyone is harping, is legit one of the dumbest things I've seen during the predraft tear down process.  It's right up there w/ Watson and MPH, Pat Mahomes doesnt hit NFL windows and Justin Jefferson only got open in the slot.  It's just utter stupidity.

Instead of addressing it, I'll just ask you a few questions in response; 

Where is this data for his freshman and sophomore year playing under Todd Monken, you know, the NFL OC who just coached, "he'll never win another MVP again", Lamar Jackson to an MVP? 

Why is this data only available for this last season w/ a new OC and first year starting QB?  Why does nobody talk about that when they reference this stupid data point? 

And why isnt a positive that he's shown he can thrive in 2 different systems that use him slightly different?  Where I come from, that tells me he is in fact, not scheme dependent and has shown he can succeed in 2 different system, w/ 2 very different QB's but that's not the story is it?  

 

I have a couple of minor concerns about Bowers (some catch technique issues on jump balls led to him not pulling down as many as he should have in 2023 and it’ll be tough for him to be more than just adequate as an inline blocker due to his size), this particular one that’s the new flavor of the month seems absurd to me.

“This guy is such a freak that the best team in college football, in the best conference in college football, was running friggin jet sweeps with their 240 pound tight end just to get the ball in his hands as quickly as possible, and that is very concerning. Oh and also we’re not sure if he’s a freak because he didn’t test.”

Not sure what we’re doing here.

 

[jvill 51]

1 minute ago, jvill 51 said:

I have a couple of minor concerns about Bowers (some catch technique issues on jump balls led to him not pulling down as many as he should have in 2023 and it’ll be tough for him to be more than just adequate as an inline blocker due to his size), this particular one that’s the new flavor of the month seems absurd to me.

“This guy is such a freak that the best team in college football, in the best conference in college football, was running friggin jet sweeps with their 240 pound tight end just to get the ball in his hands as quickly as possible, and that is very concerning. Oh and also we’re not sure if he’s a freak because he didn’t test.”

Not sure what we’re doing here.

 

I should caveat this to say that I’d understand this point if we didn’t have 3 years of production and film to go off of showing him winning in pretty much all areas. But, we do have that.

He’s not my top choice, but that has almost nothing to do with him as a prospect, and everything to do with the economics of the pick.

[Matt39]

 

3. BEN SINNOTT, Kansas State (6-4, 250, 4.63, 2-3): Outgrowing hockey after more than 10 years of playing, he turned his focus to football and eventually walked on at Kansas State as an undersized fullback. “This guy is like (George) Kittle, not Bowers,” one scout said. “His combine numbers were outstanding. He’s a really good athlete. They line him up all over. He can run routes. He’s quick, he’s fast, he gets his head to the ball quick and he’s strong catching it. He’s a tough dude after the catch. They gotta gang-tackle the guy to get him down. As a blocker, he’s aggressive. He had a play against Texas where he came in and dug that (Byron) Murphy guy out and smashed him. There was just rare blocking stuff. He didn’t do it every play but he had flashes.” Led tight ends in the vertical jump (40), the broad jump (10-6) and the 3-cone (6.82). “He’ll end up being like the guy at San Francisco,” a second scout said referring to Kyle Juszczyk. “A complete tight end. He’d be excellent at fullback because he’s a terrific space blocker. Like his mentality.” Caught 82 passes for 1,138 (13.9) and 10 TDs. “He’s a good college player,” a third scout said. “I struggle with his lack of explosiveness. He ran a 4.65 and tested really well but I didn’t see an explosive player. He’s not necessarily a great blocker and I didn’t see the route mismatch guy. He has really good hands. He does have some run after the catch. He’s not a dynamic twitch, speed-to-separate type. At our level I don’t think he’ll be a consistent winner against man (coverage). He’s not going to stretch the field vertically.” From Waterloo, Iowa.

[Guilhermezmc]

58 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Damn near all of these OL besides Alt and Fashanu are being pegged as better fits at guard in the pros.

That’s probably the biggest thing that’s turning me off from an OT at #10.

Unless Odunze or Nabers falls into our laps, I’m staunchly in the Bowers camp.

Im team WR but Odunze is far and away from a perfect prospect and thats not being talked enough here.

Would I take Bowers over Odunze? No, but I take Bowers any day of the week over those T-rex armed tackles they're trying to push to us.

[RedBeardedSavage]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Pusswah can do that but won’t run a three cone? Gen Z soft boy can go play in Denver

Oh damn, my adopted city catching strays in all this

[Matt39]

46 minutes ago, jvill 51 said:

I have a couple of minor concerns about Bowers (some catch technique issues on jump balls led to him not pulling down as many as he should have in 2023 and it’ll be tough for him to be more than just adequate as an inline blocker due to his size), this particular one that’s the new flavor of the month seems absurd to me.

“This guy is such a freak that the best team in college football, in the best conference in college football, was running friggin jet sweeps with their 240 pound tight end just to get the ball in his hands as quickly as possible, and that is very concerning. Oh and also we’re not sure if he’s a freak because he didn’t test.”

Not sure what we’re doing here.

 

Bowers had 6 carries for 28 yards last year.

[jvill 51]

5 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Bowers had 6 carries for 28 yards last year.

 

[Guilhermezmc]

The real talk here should be Bowers X Guard at 10, if theres a WR (Odunze or Nabers) from what I read so far is not even a discussion the Jets are going WR.

Its not a bad plan to go Bowers at 10, WR in the 3rd and try to find some value OL later. 

My preferred list at 10.

1. Nabers (highly unlikely to be there)

2. Joe Alt (There's so much smoke aroud Alt thats though to say where he will go, but I think its a lock that he's going to the Titans)

3. Odunze (looking more and more unlikely to get to 10)

4. Bowers

5. Trade down (get another WR)

6. Trade down (get OL)

7. Any other OL

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, jvill 51 said:

 

Do you think the tight end jet sweep translates to the NFL? 

[jvill 51]

Just now, Matt39 said:

Do you think the tight end jet sweep translates to the NFL? 

I doubt it. Which is why I added the caveat that if that was all he showed in college I’d understand the criticism more.

[Rich Thornburgh]

1 hour ago, Guilhermezmc said:

People are bitching about the value of a TE  but seem to forget that the Jets are probably drafting a guard or a RT at 10.

Fuaga and that Washington dude are guards in the NFL and you should never draft a tackle from Alabama. 

Cam Robinson has been a good LT in the NFL

[Rich Thornburgh]

18 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Bowers had 6 carries for 28 yards last year.

BEASTMODE

[Rich Thornburgh]

1 hour ago, Untouchable said:

Damn near all of these OL besides Alt and Fashanu are being pegged as better fits at guard in the pros.

That’s probably the biggest thing that’s turning me off from an OT at #10.

Unless Odunze or Nabers falls into our laps, I’m staunchly in the Bowers camp.

Alt and Fashuanu are the only OTs worth a top 10 pick

[Guilhermezmc]

18 minutes ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

Cam Robinson has been a good LT in the NFL

His career 60 pff grade and 0 pro bowls say otherwise.

He was a second rounder so thats not that bad, but the track record for Alabama tackles has been abismal at least in recent memory.

[Rich Thornburgh]

Just now, Guilhermezmc said:

His career 60 pff grade and 0 pro bowls say otherwise.

He was a second rounder so thats not that bad, but the track record for Alabama tackles has been abismal at least in recent memory.

PFF? Aren’t those the guys who once gave Darron Lee a 99?

[CTJetsFan]

1 minute ago, Guilhermezmc said:

His career 60 pff grade and 0 pro bowls say otherwise.

He was a second rounder so thats not that bad, but the track record for Alabama tackles has been abismal at least in recent memory.

I think you can add Evan Neal (Giants) to that list.

[Guilhermezmc]

6 minutes ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

PFF? Aren’t those the guys who once gave Darron Lee a 99?

PFF or not we can all agree that he's mediocre, I don't want to pull his sack numbers but I would make a blind bet that they're not good.

[Rich Thornburgh]

Just now, Guilhermezmc said:

PFF or not we can all agree that he's mediocre, I don't want to pull his sack numbers but I would make a blind bet that they're not good.

PFF is a rag.  You guys act like they are the Pope of football 

[Gastineau Lives]

5 minutes ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

 the Pope of football 

Was this one of your other screen names?

[JustInFudge]

2 hours ago, slats said:

Lol, I’d feel a lot better about him if the Todd Monken was the Jets’ OC. 
 
If the Jets take him, I’ll root like hell for him. I’m a glass half full kinda guy. If he turns out to be great, I’ll be happy to tell you how right you were about him. I’m not saying he’s gonna suck, that’s for sure. However, I still think a ‘tweener TE at #10 is a very risky pick. Especially on a team with genuine needs at WR and on the OL that has no second round pick. 

As I've said, I wouldnt pass on the top 3 WR's for Bowers but I just dont think they're going to be available.  I would however, pass on all the T prospects for Bowers because of both my opinion of the T prospects, the fact they'd be back ups and the fact the Jets were the absolute worst team in the NFL at picking up 1st downs and scoring TD's, which is pretty important to winning Football games and Bowers is really good at doing, I dont really care about the position or position-less argument.  Georgia was the best team in the country during his career, he was their best player and helped them pick up 1st downs and score TD's against the best competition in the country, that typically translates well. 

[JustInFudge]

3 hours ago, jvill 51 said:

I have a couple of minor concerns about Bowers (some catch technique issues on jump balls led to him not pulling down as many as he should have in 2023 and it’ll be tough for him to be more than just adequate as an inline blocker due to his size), this particular one that’s the new flavor of the month seems absurd to me.

“This guy is such a freak that the best team in college football, in the best conference in college football, was running friggin jet sweeps with their 240 pound tight end just to get the ball in his hands as quickly as possible, and that is very concerning. Oh and also we’re not sure if he’s a freak because he didn’t test.”

Not sure what we’re doing here.

 

Exactly.  I'm not saying he's a perfect prospect, IMO the best at the position yes, no prospect is perfect but we're going deep down a tear down path on a skill set that we're seeing translate almost immediately in the NFL these days, never mind the position. 

I was just having this convo w/ a co-worker.  Percy Harvin didnt have a position, the Gators got him the ball virtually the same ways (granted a lot less carries), he ran a 4.41, they're saying Bowers ran a 4.53 w/ 60 llbs more weight on him and we're honestly doing the, how is this going to work game?  

 

 

[CTJetsFan]

15 minutes ago, JustInFudge said:

As I've said, I wouldnt pass on the top 3 WR's for Bowers but I just dont think they're going to be available.  I would however, pass on all the T prospects for Bowers because of both my opinion of the T prospects, the fact they'd be back ups and the fact the Jets were the absolute worst team in the NFL at picking up 1st downs and scoring TD's, which is pretty important to winning Football games and Bowers is really good at doing, I dont really care about the position or position-less argument.  Georgia was the best team in the country during his career, he was their best player and helped them pick up 1st downs and score TD's against the best competition in the country, that typically translates well. 

Best way to say "The tape don't lie".

Heard a comment on NFLN last night that made me lean towards Bowers (if no top 3 WR available).

If our O-line is going to be average, Rodgers will need players who can uncover/get open quick. Wilson can. Bowers can.

[JustInFudge]

5 minutes ago, CTJetsFan said:

Best way to say "The tape don't lie".

Heard a comment on NFLN last night that made me lean towards Bowers (if no top 3 WR available).

If our O-line is going to be average, Rodgers will need players who can uncover/get open quick. Wilson can. Bowers can.

Oh man, I didnt go this route in a post early because it's kind of a different convo but I've been harping on this point for a while now.  IMO there has been a shift in the NFL and the value in having a play maker that can get open fast and that you can get the ball in their hands in many different ways, might be more important in a day in age where the ball is coming out in 2.5 seconds and you're trying to block the biggest most athletic freaks in the world.

[Morrissey]

2 hours ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

Alt and Fashuanu are the only OTs worth a top 10 pick

BS. Many evaluators have Fuaga and Fautanu ahead of Fashaunu

[Rich Thornburgh]

11 minutes ago, Morrissey said:

BS. Many evaluators have Fuaga and Fautanu ahead of Fashaunu

Same guys who said Jonah was the next Brick?

 

[jvill 51]

58 minutes ago, JustInFudge said:

Exactly.  I'm not saying he's a perfect prospect, IMO the best at the position yes, no prospect is perfect but we're going deep down a tear down path on a skill set that we're seeing translate almost immediately in the NFL these days, never mind the position. 

I was just having this convo w/ a co-worker.  Percy Harvin didnt have a position, the Gators got him the ball virtually the same ways (granted a lot less carries), he ran a 4.41, they're saying Bowers ran a 4.53 w/ 60 llbs more weight on him and we're honestly doing the, how is this going to work game?  

 

 

Yeah I just don’t get using it as a knock when he’s clearly also shown the ability to win downfield. If anything I think it just goes to show you how great of an athlete and football player he actually is. Facing the stiffest competition and playing for national championships, they built their offense around getting the ball into the hands of a 240 pounder and letting him go to work. There’s quotes from Monken I believe going into his sophomore season about how his GPS numbers were so unreal that they changed the offense to feature him more in this way. That was only expanded on his junior year. 
 

When that didn’t work (and to be clear I don’t think it will work nearly as effectively against NFL defenders because duh) and they got into the rare tight game like the second half against Auburn this year, they had to work down the field more. And Bowers just destroyed them and basically won the game by himself (starting at around 1:15 below).
 

 

[SickJetFan]

On 4/16/2024 at 10:43 AM, JustInFudge said:

He was injured but there wasnt a drop off.  He was on pace for his best season from a receptions and yards perspective, probably another double digit TD season.

I was on pace for 23 beers last night...fell asleep after 3

[Gastineau Lives]

7 minutes ago, SickJetFan said:

I was on pace for 23 beers last night...fell asleep after 3

You’re not good at math. Might be all the beer.

[83Kelly2Allen18]

12 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

The two issues i have with bowers at 10 are 1) he’s just not a home run threat, his best highlights are yard chunks but not the kind rome or nabers would get, and 2) they need OT more and can find decent wrs on day 2.  I really do think bowers will be a good player and if the jets take him, unless the OC is completely incompetent (never rule that out here), he’s going to get catches, yac and make a difference.  Rodgers is going to put a premium on getting the ball out quicker and having breece, Bowes and garrett and whoever else is going to help.  

Yet, i maintain the best use of the pick is a guy like fuaga, either at 10 or ideally in a trade back a few slots.  Then you tap into the deep wr pool day 2 and that’s the best use of draft capital.  If the jets were picking 22 and took this guy, and had a decent OL already I’d have no issues with this

Dude Bowers is absolutely a home run threat