Bowers vs. Kincaid

[Doggin94it]

5 hours ago, slats said:

Don’t think Fuaga is being billed as an OL/RB, but sure. 

"Don't think of Bowers as a TE, think of him as a receiver.

Not THAT way!!"

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

18 minutes ago, Doggin94it said:

This is where we part ways: I think it's effectively impossible for a college prospect to have earned the right to be thrown around with those names; that can only be done in the NFL. 

Honestly surprised at this point Jerry Rice wasn’t mentioned along with Jim Brown, Walter Payton, and Randy Moss by @83Kelly2Allen18

I mean why stop at Tony Gonzalez and Kelce…

Bowers is the greatest prospect in NFL history regardless of position 🤣🤣

[83Kelly2Allen18]

25 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Honestly surprised at this point Jerry Rice wasn’t mentioned along with Jim Brown, Walter Payton, and Randy Moss by @83Kelly2Allen18

I mean why stop at Tony Gonzalez and Kelce…

Bowers is the greatest prospect in NFL history regardless of position 🤣🤣

Generational players coming out of college are compared to all time greats all the time. 

 

[83Kelly2Allen18]

54 minutes ago, Doggin94it said:

This is where we part ways: I think it's effectively impossible for a college prospect to have earned the right to be thrown around with those names; that can only be done in the NFL. 

Ever heard of Andrew Luck , Peyton Manning or Ricky Williams 

How about Megatron or Andre Wadsworth 

[83Kelly2Allen18]

Andre Wadsworth was regularly compared to Bruce Smith 

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, Doggin94it said:

This is where we part ways: I think it's effectively impossible for a college prospect to have earned the right to be thrown around with those names; that can only be done in the NFL. 

Fair enough, good rules to live by. FTR, I'm not, and rarely if ever use HOF/best in the game names as comps; in fact i'm pretty stingy with comps in general... in this case i'm referring trajectory potential. Eg, I wouldn't have said there's a universe where Michael Mayer, or even Tre McBride have ceilings like Kecle/best TE of the last 20 years, where as i would say that's possible for a guy with Bowers' pedigree 

[Paradis]

7 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Who would you take? And genuinely, are you at all concerned about the disproportionate amount of screens/yac being this kid's game and whether or not that will translate?

 

Zero percent worried about Bowers production being too scheme specific in College. He's won in every thing he's been asked to do.

What would i do? Well I don't have the full picture of what Douglas has for grades with OTs available later on, though i know of a few they're high on later in the draft, so assuming there's a sound plan B to pushing Tackle down, I would look to draft a position we will surely get production out of this year. If Rome and Bowers were there at #10, i'd probably cave to Odunze at 10, for a variety of reasons. if he's gone and i couldn't trade back, I'd give in and take Brock.... but would probably take a trade back, one that Joe might not because he's rigid with his value system.

Trading back i'd take Bowers if he was still, or Fuaga/Fautanu if not. Then look at WRs on day 2.  

[The Voice of Reason]

But the biggest problem is he hasn't shown the ability to play the TE position... He is a Glorified big WR... 

He cannot block in line yet... So you are drafting him as a HOF TE in terms of positional draft value but without the skills to be Gronk. Sure a Kelce would be nice but I don't get the hype... 

This smells of Kyle Brady all over. 

[Dunnie]

I don't know about HOF, but I agree Daniels will be the best QB in this class.
Caleb Williams is far from a lock.
They should have kept Fields and let them battle it out.  The 6th rounder in 2025 they got for him is freaking worthless.

What makes you think Daniels will be better than Drake or Caleb ? Seems like a lot of guys that liked Fields like Daniels. There is no question Williams and Maye are superior passers.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[Larz]

Shrags mock today 

 

 

Pick 10

New York Jets

Brock Bowers

Georgia · TE · Junior

This is a special prospect. In fact, I've been told by multiple general managers that I'm not high enough on Bowers and that his ability after the catch sets him apart from just about every tight end prospect since Kyle Pitts. Excellent player, a winner and another weapon for Aaron Rodgers to exploit -- this pairing does indeed make a ton of sense.

[JustInFudge]

18 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Hate to twist the lions tale of a poster that's clearly more knowledgeable about college football, football in general and Brock Bowers than I, but...

This whole thing reminds me of Reggie Bush. Reggie Bush was the best college HB I'd ever seen. 

He was a really good athlete, but not a freak. He was a solid, not great NFL player. 

If I deride Bowers it's not because I think he's going to "bust" in the Mekhi Becton sense of the word - but more like Reggie Bush. He will not yield the requisite ROI for where he was selected. 

And if I'm calculating my downside risk @ pick 10, assuming not another Mekhi bust and that the top 3 receivers are gone, I'd far prefer having spent that pick on a 'good not great' starter @ offensive tackle than a 'good not great' starter @ TE. 

And if we're gambling on upside, Bowers doesn't have the freakish athleticism of Njoku or Pitts or Howard - yes it didn't work out for those teams, but at least I understand the gamble. 

Another comparison that I just dont understand, like, we're going to Reggie Bush on this thing?  lol  I dont recall Reggie Bush as the best college RB I've ever seen, no where near it in fact.  He obviously had a lot of hype but he was in college w/ AP, who IMO looked like an actual generational player.  I can even remember some chatter about White being a better pure RB at USC and maybe a better pro, but Bush was more of a play maker do all type weapon.  There was also like 5 1st round RB's in that draft.  Personally, I can remember being on JI at the time and I had in my avatar, DBrick is DPick.  Cute, I know, and maybe Bush was considered to be off the board in those mocks and what not, dont really remember but I do remember a strong contingent who were against Bush as a prospect on that board.  So I dont see this comparison at all.

As far as your calculations and upsides and downsides and gambles.  Next to MHJ, I think Bowers is safest pick in this draft, so we'll just agree to disagree.  These LT are all JAG's and Bowers has HOF potential IMO, so if I was gambling, I'll take the gamble.  Especially since there is a HOF caliber LT on the team right now.

 

[Warfish]

11 hours ago, 83Kelly2Allen18 said:

Generational....

Use of this dumb-ass ridiculous term should result in an immediate 1-week ban from JN.

@Maxman, I hereby petition you to implement this new, reasonable, well-thought out rule.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

6 minutes ago, JustInFudge said:

Another comparison that I just dont understand, like, we're going to Reggie Bush on this thing?  lol  I dont recall Reggie Bush as the best college RB I've ever seen, no where near it in fact.  He obviously had a lot of hype but he was in college w/ AP, who IMO looked like an actual generational player.  I can even remember some chatter about White being a better pure RB at USC and maybe a better pro, but Bush was more of a play maker do all type weapon.  There was also like 5 1st round RB's in that draft.  Personally, I can remember being on JI at the time and I had in my avatar, DBrick is DPick.  Cute, I know, and maybe Bush was considered to be off the board in those mocks and what not, dont really remember but I do remember a strong contingent who were against Bush as a prospect on that board.  So I dont see this comparison at all.

As far as your calculations and upsides and downsides and gambles.  Next to MHJ, I think Bowers is safest pick in this draft, so we'll just agree to disagree.  These LT are all JAG's and Bowers has HOF potential IMO, so if I was gambling, I'll take the gamble.  Especially since there is a HOF caliber LT on the team right now.

 

Would you take a Dbrick type LT over Bowers right now for this team? Not a HOF player, but a consistent 10-12 yr guy.

[JustInFudge]

15 hours ago, SickJetFan said:

with the best OC is college fb his 1st 2 seasons,,,then stats fall off a bit 2023 - just saying

He was injured but there wasnt a drop off.  He was on pace for his best season from a receptions and yards perspective, probably another double digit TD season.

[83Kelly2Allen18]

8 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Use of this dumb-ass ridiculous term should result in an immediate 1-week ban from JN.

@Maxman, I hereby petition you to implement this new, reasonable, well-thought out rule.

 

 

 

 

[Warfish]

21 hours ago, JustInFudge said:

Pitts was ridiculous, just a freak, similar in they were basically big slot guys but he had nowhere near the career of Bowers. 

Is Bowers a generational big slot guy tho?

[RedBeardedSavage]

15 minutes ago, JustInFudge said:

Another comparison that I just dont understand, like, we're going to Reggie Bush on this thing?  lol  I dont recall Reggie Bush as the best college RB I've ever seen, no where near it in fact.  He obviously had a lot of hype but he was in college w/ AP, who IMO looked like an actual generational player.  I can even remember some chatter about White being a better pure RB at USC and maybe a better pro, but Bush was more of a play maker do all type weapon.  There was also like 5 1st round RB's in that draft.  Personally, I can remember being on JI at the time and I had in my avatar, DBrick is DPick.  Cute, I know, and maybe Bush was considered to be off the board in those mocks and what not, dont really remember but I do remember a strong contingent who were against Bush as a prospect on that board.  So I dont see this comparison at all.

As far as your calculations and upsides and downsides and gambles.  Next to MHJ, I think Bowers is safest pick in this draft, so we'll just agree to disagree.  These LT are all JAG's and Bowers has HOF potential IMO, so if I was gambling, I'll take the gamble.  Especially since there is a HOF caliber LT on the team right now.

 

Undersized, did not end up testing out as a freak athlete, ridiculous college production, "not just a {insert position} but a weapon"/jack-of-all trades" - sounds a lot like both Bush to me.

Tons of respect for the D'Brick is DPick. Love it.

I do think it's an agree-to-disagree situation here in these threads. 

[Alka]

22 hours ago, WhartonJet said:

How does Bowers compare as a prospect to Dalton Kincaid from last year's draft?  I remember wanting Kincaid at 15 because I thought he would be a weapon on offense.  Very fluid pass catcher with a knack for getting open.  Kincaid came in and had a solid rookie season for Buffalo (73 catches, 673 yards, 2 TDs).  Kincaid ended up being picked 25th.

By the way, Tyler Conklin of the Jets had 61 catches for 621 yards last season, and he had garbage quarterbacks throwing to him, instead of Josh Allen.

Only 50 yards short of Kincaid.  And he is still only 28 years old.  

Imagine if Tyler had a better QB throwing to him, with a better offensive line and a much better offense!

[JustInFudge]

4 minutes ago, SomebodytoAnybody47 said:

Would you take a Dbrick type LT over Bowers right now for this team? Not a HOF player, but a consistent 10-12 yr guy.

That would be a tough decision.  The situations are very very different.  2006 was a complete rebuild.  2024 you assume, at least in the NY Jets mind, is a window trying to hit lightening in a bottle w/ one of the greatest QB's of all time.  So in the current situation, w/ a HOF caliber LT in Smith on the roster, I'd take Bowers.  In 2006, I would have taken DBrick.

And I will say this as I go on about Bowers, I'd be hard pressed to pass on one of the top WR's if they fell to 10 for positional value reasons but I'm also not very high on any of these T's, so there is that component to my feelings toward Bowers over a JAG T as well. 

 

[JustInFudge]

7 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Undersized, did not end up testing out as a freak athlete, ridiculous college production, "not just a {insert position} but a weapon"/jack-of-all trades" - sounds a lot like both Bush to me.

Tons of respect for the D'Brick is DPick. Love it.

I do think it's an agree-to-disagree situation here in these threads. 

Did Bowers even test enough to know this?  He sure looked like an athletic freak on the playing field.

 

[JustInFudge]

13 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Is Bowers a generational big slot guy tho?

I think Bowers brings a dynamic to modern Football unlike most players you'll ask to line up in the slot over the course of a season.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

9 minutes ago, JustInFudge said:

That would be a tough decision.  The situations are very very different.  2006 was a complete rebuild.  2024 you assume, at least in the NY Jets mind, is a window trying to hit lightening in a bottle w/ one of the greatest QB's of all time.  So in the current situation, w/ a HOF caliber LT in Smith on the roster, I'd take Bowers.  In 2006, I would have taken DBrick.

And I will say this as I go on about Bowers, I'd be hard pressed to pass on one of the top WR's if they fell to 10 for positional value reasons but I'm also not very high on any of these T's, so there is that component to my feelings toward Bowers over a JAG T as well. 

 

Yeah - I only ask that because you mentioned these OT's are JAGs this year in the draft. I figured at least they would be a serviceable long term pick. Which isn't terrible for OL. Set it and forget it.

But yeah, all depends on the Jets/JD's thinking. Long term - "I believe I'll be here beyond this year, so let me get this OL position settled right now." OR...F IT, WE'LL DO IT LIVE and go all in for the play maker.

[WhartonJet]

30 minutes ago, Alka said:

By the way, Tyler Conklin of the Jets had 61 catches for 621 yards last season, and he had garbage quarterbacks throwing to him, instead of Josh Allen.

Only 50 yards short of Kincaid.  And he is still only 28 years old.  

Imagine if Tyler had a better QB throwing to him, with a better offensive line and a much better offense!

Tyler Conklin is not a reason to not draft Brock Bowers

[Dunnie]

By the way, Tyler Conklin of the Jets had 61 catches for 621 yards last season, and he had garbage quarterbacks throwing to him, instead of Josh Allen.
Only 50 yards short of Kincaid.  And he is still only 28 years old.  
Imagine if Tyler had a better QB throwing to him, with a better offensive line and a much better offense!

I don't get why Conklin is not appreciated more here. It's weird.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[Doggin94it]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

Use of this dumb-ass ridiculous term should result in an immediate 1-week ban from JN.

@Maxman, I hereby petition you to implement this new, reasonable, well-thought out rule.

This is why you were a generational Talent at mod

[Warfish]

Just now, Doggin94it said:

This is why you were a generational Talent at mod

I once hung at a forum that, for reasons that don't really matter here, used an auto-text-changer on certain words.

So you're be happily typing away at your post, hit "post", and you'd find one specific word auto-changed to "10-foot Bell End" (Bell end being British slag for dickhead).  

There are DEFINITELY terms I would use such a power on here at JN, if I ran the site, and "Generational" would be the first one.

[Rich Thornburgh]

15 hours ago, Doggin94it said:

"Don't think of Bowers as a TE, think of him as a receiver.

Not THAT way!!"

Or we could simply draft a WR

[Rich Thornburgh]

6 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

But the biggest problem is he hasn't shown the ability to play the TE position... He is a Glorified big WR... 

He cannot block in line yet... So you are drafting him as a HOF TE in terms of positional draft value but without the skills to be Gronk. Sure a Kelce would be nice but I don't get the hype... 

This smells of Kyle Brady all over. 

The best tight ends can block in-line and stay on the field all 3 downs.  Gronk was an incredible blocker.  Kelce is very good.  That’s part of why they were so successful as pass catcher’s because defenses couldn’t guess when they were blocking or running a route

 

Bowers is not as big as those guys or as good of a blocker

[RedBeardedSavage]

2 hours ago, JustInFudge said:

Did Bowers even test enough to know this?  He sure looked like an athletic freak on the playing field.

 

Put yourself in my shoes -

You hear we're linked with a TE @ 10 overall. He's 6'3 240 lbs. It's rumored he played lighter than that. He didn't test athletically at the combine, pro day and there are reports of a 4.53 at a personal workout. He's dubbed as generational by almost everyone, but the next sentence is filled with "but he's gotta go to the right OC, the right fit", "he shouldn't just be expected to lineup @ TE". A huge portion of his production came from designed plays to him. 48% of his catches were behind the LOS. 

I can be reasonable and understand the other side of this argument - 'he's so good, they made him the focal point of their offense in the most competitive conference in all of CFB'. And as someone who has read these boards for a while, there are posters whom I respect on this side of the argument (yourself and @Paradis included). 

But I guess, it's difficult, for me at least, to project this skillset to the NFL. Whom do I compare him to? Should I discount the history of previous first-round TE's? Should I throw-out positional value? Should I not care that there is limited athletic testing data? 

[JustInFudge]

3 hours ago, SomebodytoAnybody47 said:

Yeah - I only ask that because you mentioned these OT's are JAGs this year in the draft. I figured at least they would be a serviceable long term pick. Which isn't terrible for OL. Set it and forget it.

But yeah, all depends on the Jets/JD's thinking. Long term - "I believe I'll be here beyond this year, so let me get this OL position settled right now." OR...F IT, WE'LL DO IT LIVE and go all in for the play maker.

I mean, I'm not going to sit here and say none of these T prospects arent going to be a 10 year starter, I'm just not sure any of them are so good it's worth passing on a desperate need at play maker and a prospect like Bowers, for that T only to sit behind Smith and play due to injury or wait till next season.  Like none of these dudes are guys that wont come along next year in the draft.  I cant say that about Bowers. 

[Matt39]

3 hours ago, WhartonJet said:

Tyler Conklin is not a reason to not draft Brock Bowers

Sure. But it also points to Ruckert not working out, which for a 3rd round pick is disappointing 

[JetsFlyer]

18 hours ago, 83Kelly2Allen18 said:

His production 

His production vs elite competition in the sec

The best player on the most talented team in the country the past 3 years 

Elite triangle numbers for the position 

Elite intangibles and instincts running routes and anticipating zones( maybe the best trait, and why guys like kelce are truly great)

Elite physicality 

Natural hands catcher

Adequate blocker which causes a nightmare because it puts the defense in conflict 

Can threaten every part of the field 

Above avg yac ability and can play in space. 

No character off the field issues 

Played all sports growing up 

Eye test is elite 

"Elite intangibles and instincts running routes and anticipating zones( maybe the best trait, and why guys like kelce are truly great)"

this and leverage are the things you want from a TE..  if you are correct in this assessment  then hes a top 10.  would be great if he was 2" taller

[WhartonJet]

6 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Sure. But it also points to Ruckert not working out, which for a 3rd round pick is disappointing 

Not necessarily.  Ruckert can still have a role on this team as a blocker in 2 TE sets with Bowers on this team.  Drafting Bowers would mean the end of Conklin's time here.

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, WhartonJet said:

Not necessarily.  Ruckert can still have a role on this team as a blocker in 2 TE sets with Bowers on this team.  Drafting Bowers would mean the end of Conklin's time here.

I think Conklin is a roster lock regardless of Bowers.

[WhartonJet]

Just now, Matt39 said:

I think Conklin is a roster lock regardless of Bowers.

Yes, this year.  I meant going forward