I Have Never Been This Uninterested in the Draft

[More Cowbell]

4 hours ago, JKlecko said:

Sorry, but you shouldn't be commenting on the OTs in the draft when you've obviously done no research into them or have watched them play. While their athletic ability of the top 10 OTs is relatively similar, the playing experience, their overall talent, their technique level, development, and readiness to play, is very different.  Fashanu has the potential to be an All Pro and has a very high floor.  Only 1-2 of the remaining OTs have a similar ceiling, but most of them have a lower floor.

Fautanu doesn't have prototypical size, had an ACL repair and will likely need to have additional surgery on that knee, and has a lisfranc injury.  He is very athletic, but technique-wise is very raw/undeveloped, and he's already 24.  Fashanu is only 21.

I think you just described what we heard about Becton since day 1. How did that turn out? Not to say I think Fashanu will have an issue keeping his weight down or any of Bectons issues, but your starters on the OL are set. I don't  need to know any of the things you said to know Smith and Moses  are the starters. My issue is this will be a no impact player. He is not stepping in and dominating mid season. Nobody does that. 

[More Cowbell]

3 minutes ago, OilfieldJet said:

The choice was an excellent one. A premier position, a position of need and on a unit that protects our most important player, supports the run game and the passing game. Would you have preferred a repeat of last year, when we had Becton and Brown as starters? 

What is with you people. Moses and Smith are the starters. Fashanu is not going to start. Tell me, why are you happy the Jets drafted depth with the 11th pick? It's  a slim chance that Smith doesn't  get injured at some point but it is possible and Fashanu may never see the field. 

I don't  care how good he will be in 2 years. The Jets are being  built to win now. Are they a SB team? I have no idea but looking at this roster, it is totally different than what we finished with on the offensive side of the ball. This guy starts the season on the bench. How is this helping the team to win now? 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

What is with you people. Moses and Smith are the starters. Fashanu is not going to start. Tell me, why are you happy the Jets drafted depth with the 11th pick? It's  a slim chance that Smith doesn't  get injured at some point but it is possible and Fashanu may never see the field. 

I don't  care how good he will be in 2 years. The Jets are being  built to win now. Are they a SB team? I have no idea but looking at this roster, it is totally different than what we finished with on the offensive side of the ball. This guy starts the season on the bench. How is this helping the team to win now? 

I'm not following how a player who's absolutely going to see the field - when he's one of the two best OTs on the roster, not because of draft status & the talent to be one of the two best OTs on the roster - helps less than a 3rd string QB that further robs the team of a roster spot the entire season.

If he looks all that right away this summer, then tbh 33 year-old Moses is the one who begins the season on the bench (like in 2021); not Fashanu.

[More Cowbell]

17 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I'm not following how a player who's absolutely going to see the field - when he's one of the two best OTs on the roster, not because of draft status & the talent to be one of the two best OTs on the roster - helps less than a 3rd string QB that further robs the team of a roster spot the entire season.

If he looks all that right away this summer, then tbh 33 year-old Moses is the one who begins the season on the bench (like in 2021); not Fashanu.

Sperm, I like your attitude  and normally I agree with a lot of what you write but you are dead wrong here. Moses is totally capable of starting and he was signed to start. I doubt signing a somewhat flawed OT who everyone says struggles in the run game is going to supplant a Vet.

And if that isn't enough, the Jets are not paying Moses 5.5 million to sit on the bench. He is going to start until he is injured or flat out sucks. 

[Morrissey]

I swear half this fan base are brain dead and think football is played on paper. Anyone who thinks Olu isn't going to play this year and is just a bench guy should be rightly ignored.

 

[SoFlaJets]

First off as to More Cowbell's original thought about not being interested in this draft-I;'m right there with him. I had no idea how ANY of these kids looked before watching some highlights on the first dozen players picked last night.  I am also in agreement with the way he was feeling pre-draft about the "no matter WHO "they" pick (notice the Jets are not a "we" in my book-YET) I have the same feeing, and then I saw what they did last night and I started thinking about the best Jets teams we have seen have always had D'Brick at LT and Mangold at C mixed in with some wily veterans and I am more that hopeful that they did the right thing this time.

I still ain't wasting my hard-earned on the Sunday Ticket though. My take is this: IF the Jets are good they'll be on TV most of those games and the ones they're not my wife and son are usually able to get a feed-At least we don't have to worry about being force fed Zach Wilson for another season.

[More Cowbell]

58 minutes ago, Morrissey said:

I swear half this fan base are brain dead and think football is played on paper. Anyone who thinks Olu isn't going to play this year and is just a bench guy should be rightly ignored.

 

And people who thin a rookie is going to start over an established vet because he was the 11th pick in the draft should be also. Most likely he will start at some point, but that isn't  at all what I an complaining about. We spent the 11th pick on depth. That is what I am complaining about. If both Moses and Smith are healthy for game one, he isn't starting. 

[Morrissey]

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

And people who thin a rookie is going to start over an established vet because he was the 11th pick in the draft should be also. Most likely he will start at some point, but that isn't  at all what I an complaining about. We spent the 11th pick on depth. That is what I am complaining about. If both Moses and Smith are healthy for game one, he isn't starting. 

so the most important positions on an NFL field besides QB are healthy... and you are acting like that is a bad thing? and when those very important positions aren't healthy we now have a blue chip prospet who they can pencil in. yeah sounds terrible. not to mention he's the long term answer at LT. One of the hardest, toughest, and most expensive positions in the sport to fill with quality elite players.

if you don't understand why this pick is important because of how we built our OL and who we have at QB than there really is no helping you.

Lets just stop wasting our time by repeating ourselves.

[Jet Nut]

5 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

The OL is markedly different now than last season so I don't  know why you are bringing this up. With the 11th pick, you want a player who will impact the season at some point. The Jets chose to draft depth. At some point  he will play but it's  probably around game 10, so he will just be getting his feet wet when other rookies are hitting their stride. With the 11th pick in the draft, you don't  draft depth. 

With the 11th pick you want the best player available, especially if it also fits a position of need.  OL is a position. Of need on this team.  Theres more of a chance that they drafted a player at 1 who will play this season than who won’t.  I get it OL isn’t a sexy pick like WR.  Skill position players are cool and OL isn’t, ignoring the adage that you win by building the trenches up.  

 

[LIJetsFan]

Some people just like to complain and find fault. 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

Sperm, I like your attitude  and normally I agree with a lot of what you write but you are dead wrong here. Moses is totally capable of starting and he was signed to start. I doubt signing a somewhat flawed OT who everyone says struggles in the run game is going to supplant a Vet.

And if that isn't enough, the Jets are not paying Moses 5.5 million to sit on the bench. He is going to start until he is injured or flat out sucks. 

The things you're missing:

1. Moses was signed, at least in part, so they wouldn't HAVE TO force their hand with the 10th pick, even if a WR they liked better and ranked higher was sitting right there. Just like Williams was signed so they wouldn't HAVE TO force their hand at WR.
2. Moses's $5.5MM has $0 guaranteed if that money is the end-all-be-all of dictating who starts and who sits. Personally, even if he sits I'm quite comfortable with not getting cute over whether the backup tackle is worth a mere $3.5MM or $5.5MM, especially when he simultaneously pushes the rookie to not simply get handed the job on day 1 because of draft position.
3. It's quite common for the $3-4MM range to be for an OL who backs up two positions (or effectively backs up, by someone else swapping with his activation; in this case, rookie can swap from RT to LT). I mean, they did this very thing when they signed Moses the first time around - as a free agent with all of it guaranteed iirc - when they already had Becton & Fant penciled in as starters. Then 30 min into the season, this expensive luxury backup wasn't such a luxury anymore; he was starting.
4. Moses isn't yet 100%. I think he will be by week 1. Smith is 100% but he always misses games (often, of late, missing the majority of the season). They're both 33, which is not the typical age that players become less injury prone. In March they could only acquire the players who were acquirable: you can't force a FA to sign here, and you can't force a team to trade a starter. Under the circumstances, adding those two was about as good an outcome as one could expect, by starter ability, but even still no one realistically expects to see 34 regular season starts between them and there's a good chance another starter will be needed for 8-10 games.

Anyway my post was more regarding the rationale used is: an OT is pointless because he's not starting from day 1 (even though it's obvious he'd see the field as a starter in a significant number of games based on past history). That'd be ok on its own, but as a rationale to have someone 10x less likely to see the field as a QB3 this year and quite possibly a QB2 next year as well, it falls short for me. 

[More Cowbell]

2 hours ago, Morrissey said:

so the most important positions on an NFL field besides QB are healthy... and you are acting like that is a bad thing? and when those very important positions aren't healthy we now have a blue chip prospet who they can pencil in. yeah sounds terrible. not to mention he's the long term answer at LT. One of the hardest, toughest, and most expensive positions in the sport to fill with quality elite players.

if you don't understand why this pick is important because of how we built our OL and who we have at QB than there really is no helping you.

Lets just stop wasting our time by repeating ourselves.

Explain to me how this helps Rodgers win this season if he only plays about 6 games. We have a 1 or 2 year window with Rodgers. We need impact players now. We could have traded back further and taken a WR who can help immediately 

[More Cowbell]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

With the 11th pick you want the best player available, especially if it also fits a position of need.  OL is a position. Of need on this team.  Theres more of a chance that they drafted a player at 1 who will play this season than who won’t.  I get it OL isn’t a sexy pick like WR.  Skill position players are cool and OL isn’t, ignoring the adage that you win by building the trenches up.  

 

Whatever. I'm tired of repeating myself. If you are ok drafting a guy that is not a QB who will sit most likely  8 or 10 games, fine. 

[More Cowbell]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The things you're missing:

1. Moses was signed, at least in part, so they wouldn't HAVE TO force their hand with the 10th pick, even if a WR they liked better and ranked higher was sitting right there. Just like Williams was signed so they wouldn't HAVE TO force their hand at WR.
2. Moses's $5.5MM has $0 guaranteed if that money is the end-all-be-all of dictating who starts and who sits. Personally, even if he sits I'm quite comfortable with not getting cute over whether the backup tackle is worth a mere $3.5MM or $5.5MM, especially when he simultaneously pushes the rookie to not simply get handed the job on day 1 because of draft position.
3. It's quite common for the $3-4MM range to be for an OL who backs up two positions (or effectively backs up, by someone else swapping with his activation; in this case, rookie can swap from RT to LT). I mean, they did this very thing when they signed Moses the first time around - as a free agent with all of it guaranteed iirc - when they already had Becton & Fant penciled in as starters. Then 30 min into the season, this expensive luxury backup wasn't such a luxury anymore; he was starting.
4. Moses isn't yet 100%. I think he will be by week 1. Smith is 100% but he always misses games (often, of late, missing the majority of the season). They're both 33, which is not the typical age that players become less injury prone. In March they could only acquire the players who were acquirable: you can't force a FA to sign here, and you can't force a team to trade a starter. Under the circumstances, adding those two was about as good an outcome as one could expect, by starter ability, but even still no one realistically expects to see 34 regular season starts between them and there's a good chance another starter will be needed for 8-10 games.

Anyway my post was more regarding the rationale used is: an OT is pointless because he's not starting from day 1 (even though it's obvious he'd see the field as a starter in a significant number of games based on past history). That'd be ok on its own, but as a rationale to have someone 10x less likely to see the field as a QB3 this year and quite possibly a QB2 next year as well, it falls short for me. 

Short of drafting say Bo Nix who would start next season, I am not OK having a first round pick not on the field immediately.  That is just how I feel about high picks in the draft except QB's

[SackExchangeNYJ]

Why is anyone offering any comparisons between Fashanu and Becton? You would be hard-pressed to find players at the same position who are more different.

[Sperm Edwards]

28 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Short of drafting say Bo Nix who would start next season, I am not OK having a first round pick not on the field immediately.  That is just how I feel about high picks in the draft except QB's

Fair enough. I think a first rounder is more of a long term investment than week 1 of a rookie season even when it’s not a QB. Especially since the goal is to have credible starters in place for this season before the draft, so they don’t reach for positions based upon week 1 need.

You can dislike it plenty, but the team’s goal is to have Rodgers start these upcoming two seasons. A QB at #10 was never realistic. 

[Jet Nut]

52 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Whatever. I'm tired of repeating myself. If you are ok drafting a guy that is not a QB who will sit most likely  8 or 10 games, fine. 

What else you got in that crystal ball because nothing says he’s not going to be needed for 10 games.  Either way, yes, I’m more than fine with a top LT prospect who can be our T for 10 years but may not be needed for the entire season.  Especially over reaching for a day 2 type QB who’s going to sit for a couple of seasons, not for a couple of games and drafting him at 10.  The goal is to build a team, not a team for 2024 IMO. 
That’s it. We can agree to disagree and move on 
 

[Ulrich]

The focus should always be on fielding a great, complete team. Find and develop a QB along the way.