Joe Douglas is not a "Terrible GM"

[BornJetsFan1983]

10 hours ago, slimjasi said:

Note that I didn’t say I’d rather have sucked in 2021 as bad as we did to get Sauce and GW, only that replacing Zach with a better veteran QB would have probably led to a very different future. 
 

While we did have an awesome draft in 2022, we could have had an awesome draft in 2021 by trading down and loading up in a loaded class. 

either way, the past is the past and I’m excited to have GW (already becoming one of my favorite Jets ever) and Sauce and am very much looking forward to Jets football this year. 

Me too. Couldve would've whatever. We know this year it's put up or shut up

We are going to get the year we expected last year 

[jgb]

9 hours ago, T0mShane said:

The negative case is that the roster is currently propped up by a bunch of veteran castoffs brought in on one year deals the 11th hour to replace a legion of failed draft picks at critical positions. If you give any GM enough time, picks, and money, he’ll eventually be able to buy enough spackle to smooth over his ****ups. 

Any GM including the great Ozzie Newsom himself can whiff on a QB. It’s the most difficult position (in any sport) to extrapolate from college to pros. It is hard to fault a GM for taking his shot there but picking Becton over Wirfs, that was an unconscionable whiff.

[Integrity28]

11 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Yes.

[BCJet]

11 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

So, the moves they’ve made this offseason to level up have nothing to do with Carolina picking Bryce.

You said that they didnt "hit the QB lotto" which I didnt feel was accurate.

They made some good moves on paper this offseason, and they have a really good team - 2 separate things.

[Integrity28]

5 minutes ago, BCJet said:

You said that they didnt "hit the QB lotto" which I didnt feel was accurate.

They made some good moves on paper this offseason, and they have a really good team - 2 separate things.

I said other folks will tell you they hit the lotto, to discredit the other things they are doing right. As if landing CJ Stroud was pure luck and the only reason they seem good. Implying they’ve otherwise been fumbling away picks and cap space. 

I don’t actually think we disagree.

[doitny]

11 hours ago, mfmartin said:

 

You don’t extend a guy because some journalism writer thinks the roster is top 10.


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how about every writer and ex football player on TV and paper. 

[Matt39]

28 minutes ago, doitny said:

how about every writer and ex football player on TV and paper. 

They’re probably top 10. But it’s built via some one year FA’s and a QB who is 40. This is a year to year roster that likely needs fresh eyes to improve it for sustained success. 

[UntouchableCrew]

14 hours ago, T0mShane said:

The negative case is that the roster is currently propped up by a bunch of veteran castoffs brought in on one year deals the 11th hour to replace a legion of failed draft picks at critical positions.

Look, there's no question about that. If Becton, Zach and Moore/Mims had panned out and we weren't relying on Smith, Rodgers and Mike Williams? Douglas would be universally praised.

But we do have a talented young core to build around -- Sauce, GW, JJ, Breece, AVT, Tippman, Quinnen, Quincy, Michael Carter II, McDonald, Fashanu. The cupboard is far from bare here.

I'm not saying we should be extending Douglas now -- I want to see what the team does this year. 

But the overall reality is that every GM misses on picks and outside of the QB position I think this rebuild has been a pretty successful one.

14 hours ago, T0mShane said:

 

If you give any GM enough time, picks, and money, he’ll eventually be able to buy enough spackle to smooth over his ****ups. 

Part of the reason I remain very pro Douglas is that despite his misses and flaws he clearly has a big picture idea of how to build a team and has had some level of success in doing so. I have more faith in Douglas to build a top program here than I do in the brothers Johnson to hire someone better than him.

[Matt39]

28 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Look, there's no question about that. If Becton, Zach and Moore/Mims had panned out and we weren't relying on Smith, Rodgers and Mike Williams? Douglas would be universally praised.

But we do have a talented young core to build around -- Sauce, GW, JJ, Breece, AVT, Tippman, Quinnen, Quincy, Michael Carter II, McDonald, Fashanu. The cupboard is far from bare here.

I'm not saying we should be extending Douglas now -- I want to see what the team does this year. 

But the overall reality is that every GM misses on picks and outside of the QB position I think this rebuild has been a pretty successful one.

Part of the reason I remain very pro Douglas is that despite his misses and flaws he clearly has a big picture idea of how to build a team and has had some level of success in doing so. I have more faith in Douglas to build a top program here than I do in the brothers Johnson to hire someone better than him.

Big picture? The QB is 40.

[doitny]

1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

They’re probably top 10. But it’s built via some one year FA’s and a QB who is 40. This is a year to year roster that likely needs fresh eyes to improve it for sustained success. 

i will quote this so it saves my lazy ass from writing all these names. thanks @UntouchableCrew

19 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

But we do have a talented young core to build around -- Sauce, GW, JJ, Breece, AVT, Tippman, Quinnen, Quincy, Michael Carter II, McDonald, Fashanu. The cupboard is far from bare here.

i like to add Adams and i think one of those 2 RBs drafted will make a good contribution this year. 

Matt every top 10 team has a QB. but i bet if they didnt count QBs at all we would still have a top 10 roster.

i dont see us built on one year FAs. Williams, Davis, Moses, are all i count. but i think if you look around the league there are alot of teams having one year rentals to help them win. 

if you look at the roster on offense we 4 starters over 30. Rodgers (41), Williams (30), Smith (34), Mosses (33). 2 backups Taylor (35) and Schweitzer (31) if he makes the team.

on Defense its only Mosley (32) and if he ever plays for us Reddick (30). you also have 3 bubble guys Hector (30), Smart (30) and Eguavoen (31) if they make the team.

oh and the 2 kickers, Zuerlein (37) and Morstead (38)

looking at it now it a young roster with guys in the wings to replace all the old guys accept Rodgers and the kickers.

[PepPep]

35 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Big picture? The QB is 40.

Yes, our starting QB is 40. In a vacuum that's shortsighted and poor decision making on the GM's part. But we're not living in a vacuum. So what if our QB is 40?! Fact is, we went from Zach Wilson to Aaron Rodgers, signed a quality veteran backup QB in case Rodgers goes down and drafted a QB to groom for the future. Would you rather our starting QB was Zach Wilson? Cousins? Carr? Minshew? Baker? Jimmy G? Tannenhill? Brissett? Or a rookie like JJ McCarthy or Bo Nix? What are we talking about here?

This is a team with a core of really special young players that will be here for the foreseeable future but also a team that has a pretty short window for success as a complete unit. The QB position reflects that short window. But JD clearly has a picture of how to continue building this team for the future with young talent in place to be groomed behind the starters (Olu, Sherwood, JBC/Stiggers, Will McD, Allen/Davis, Travis, Corley). 

Its easy to quip about how we have a 40 yr old QB but its far from an accurate representation of JDs big picture outlook for the team.  

[Matt39]

Just now, PepPep said:

Yes, our starting QB is 40. In a vacuum that's shortsighted and poor decision making on the GM's part. But we're not living in a vacuum. So what if our QB is 40?! Fact is, we went from Zach Wilson to Aaron Rodgers, signed a quality veteran backup QB in case Rodgers goes down and drafted a QB to groom for the future. Would you rather our starting QB was Zach Wilson? Cousins? Carr? Minshew? Baker? Jimmy G? Tannenhill? Brissett? Or a rookie like JJ McCarthy or Bo Nix? What are we talking about here?

This is a team with a core of really special young players that will be here for the foreseeable future but also a team that has a pretty short window for success as a complete unit. The QB position reflects that short window. But JD clearly has a picture of how to continue building this team for the future with young talent in place to be groomed behind veteran starters (Olu, Sherwood, JBC/Stiggers, Will McD, Allen/Davis, Travis, Corley). 

Its easy to quip about how we have a 40 yr old QB but its far from an accurate representation of JDs big picture outlook for the team.  

If the GM was focused on big picture Nix would have been the pick.

[mfmartin]

how about every writer and ex football player on TV and paper. 

no. That’s a completely idiotic way to determine a contract extension. Oh well we went 6-10 but some talking head on ESPN who was fed an opinion thought we were good in the preseason power rankings.


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[mfmartin]

Part of the reason I remain very pro Douglas is that despite his misses and flaws he clearly has a big picture idea of how to build a team and has had some level of success in doing so. I have more faith in Douglas to build a top program here than I do in the brothers Johnson to hire someone better than him.

Outside of the quarterback position is like saying Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play besides that one incident


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[mfmartin]

thats a result, not a move, decision or skill...see QB and coaching and owner control for your answer

So you don’t rank the GM based on the results of the teams he builds? Ok.


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[JetsFlyer]

10 minutes ago, mfmartin said:

 

So you don’t rank the GM based on the results of the teams he builds? Ok.


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no i judge him on his failure at QB, coaching and owner control.. which resulted in a bad winning percentage

[UntouchableCrew]

1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

Big picture? The QB is 40.

Right. They whiffed on the draft pick but the team was good enough to win now so they went with an aging Hall of Fame QB in an effort to win while the young core was cheap.

The next move (whether they win with Rodgers or not) will be to draft a QB and see if you can win with a cheap, young QB after we've paid the young core.

Obviously less than ideal that Wilson busted but it's not like we're totally screwed here long term. The question is simply whether Douglas has done a good enough job to deserve to pick the next QB. I want to see what the team does in 2024.

47 minutes ago, mfmartin said:

 

 

Outside of the quarterback position is like saying Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play besides that one incident


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I don't think anyone is arguing whiffing on a QB 2nd overall isn't really bad. It's more that the team looks pretty damn good despite that. At the end of the day the question is really "do you fundamentally think Douglas can't evaluate QBs?" Because as I noted above we were always going to need to draft a new guy at some point. Question is should Douglas get another crack at it.

[Matt39]

Joe Douglas who’s never seen, did put on tape how badly he wanted Corley. He stuck his flag down with that pick. Worth noting the receiver selected after him, Burton, is dominating preseason.

[Rich Thornburgh]

3 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Joe Douglas who’s never seen, did put on tape how badly he wanted Corley. He stuck his flag down with that pick. Worth noting the receiver selected after him, Burton, is dominating preseason.

JD is supposed to be this guru of the wide receiver position because he drafted GW but he also whiffed hard on Mims and moore

[Matt39]

2 minutes ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

JD is supposed to be this guru of the wide receiver position because he drafted GW but he also whiffed hard on Mims and moore

Not very confident in Corley 

[doitny]

1 hour ago, mfmartin said:

 

 

no. That’s a completely idiotic way to determine a contract extension. Oh well we went 6-10 but some talking head on ESPN who was fed an opinion thought we were good in the preseason power rankings.


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its not just one its everybody. why you dont think this is a top 10 roster?

an average roster doesnt win 7 games with 3 QBs who wont be in the NFL by cut time on Tuesday.

yeah if we win 6 games with Rodgers you can fire him. if we win 8 or more games and miss the playoffs he should stay.

[mfmartin]

its not just one its everybody. why you dont think this is a top 10 roster?
an average roster doesnt win 7 games with 3 QBs who wont be in the NFL by cut time on Tuesday.
yeah if we win 6 games with Rodgers you can fire him. if we win 8 or more games and miss the playoffs he should stay.

Increasing your win total by 1 over a 6 year contract doesn’t warrant a new contract.


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[mfmartin]

no i judge him on his failure at QB, coaching and owner control.. which resulted in a bad winning percentage

So what is your view on Douglas?


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[mfmartin]

I don't think anyone is arguing whiffing on a QB 2nd overall isn't really bad. It's more that the team looks pretty damn good despite that. At the end of the day the question is really "do you fundamentally think Douglas can't evaluate QBs?" Because as I noted above we were always going to need to draft a new guy at some point. Question is should Douglas get another crack at it.

He got another mulligan with Rodgers which is why they need to make the playoffs.


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[UntouchableCrew]

13 minutes ago, mfmartin said:

 

He got another mulligan with Rodgers which is why they need to make the playoffs.


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Oh, without question. If they don’t make the playoffs this year you need to clean house.

[CanadaSteve]

On 8/23/2024 at 8:39 AM, Jetsfan80 said:

Did you read the next sentence about how JN had better foresight at the time than the GM?

Its hard sometimes reading some posts beyond the first sentence, so ......

[CanadaSteve]

On 8/23/2024 at 12:54 PM, Warfish said:

Could?  Sure, maybe.

Would?  Not me.

Whomever our post-Rodgers-Era QB will be, he'll be better off with the best O-Line and RB's he can get.

Again, hence 'IF.'

'IF' Braelon Allen comes in and there isn't a beat missed with Bryce Hall, then why would you sign Bryce Hall for $15 million a season and then basically keep Allen on the bench?  Bryce Hall might fetch a pretty penny talent/draft pick-wise.

Do I think Allen will be better than Hall?  Not sure.  Do I want Hall traded? No.  But, IF Allen turns out to be just as good, and Isaiah Davis or Abanikanda can be solid depth, why wouldn't you entertain the possibility IF someone is willing to pay?  Remember, as it has been explained to me a hundred times, this is a fan message-board where what we do is talk sh*t, analyze stuff, and posit hypotheticals all the time. 

[CanadaSteve]

1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

Joe Douglas who’s never seen, did put on tape how badly he wanted Corley. He stuck his flag down with that pick. Worth noting the receiver selected after him, Burton, is dominating preseason.

Even though pre-season in year one isn't over, never too early to talk about how bad he can't get any picks right, huh?

[Matt39]

6 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Even though pre-season in year one isn't over, never too early to talk about how bad he can't get any picks right, huh?

I have extreme confidence in my draft evals

[kmnj]

4 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Look, there's no question about that. If Becton, Zach and Moore/Mims had panned out and we weren't relying on Smith, Rodgers and Mike Williams? Douglas would be universally praised.

But we do have a talented young core to build around -- Sauce, GW, JJ, Breece, AVT, Tippman, Quinnen, Quincy, Michael Carter II, McDonald, Fashanu. The cupboard is far from bare here.

I'm not saying we should be extending Douglas now -- I want to see what the team does this year. 

But the overall reality is that every GM misses on picks and outside of the QB position I think this rebuild has been a pretty successful one.

Part of the reason I remain very pro Douglas is that despite his misses and flaws he clearly has a big picture idea of how to build a team and has had some level of success in doing so. I have more faith in Douglas to build a top program here than I do in the brothers Johnson to hire someone better than him.

Big picture ? He has a 40 year old qb ? He has no big picture at all - all good rebuilds you build around a young qb that is the foundation of your team  ( he failed at that ) Arod was a last ditch effort to save his job and get a name guy for Woody - 

arod is 40 coming off a major injury playing on bad turf he will never make it through the season - I knew last year would not work and won’t this year 

Joe should have long ago kept Sam and traded for capital, if not gone with Lamar or even Carr 

Joe is in year 6 not one of the previous years has a Qb out performed Sam lol 

[Matt39]

3 minutes ago, kmnj said:

Big picture ? He has a 40 year old qb ? He has no big picture at all - all good rebuilds you build around a young qb that is the foundation of your team  ( he failed at that ) Arod was a last ditch effort to save his job and get a name guy for Woody - 

arod is 40 coming off a major injury playing on bad turf he will never make it through the season - I knew last year would not work and won’t this year 

Joe should have long ago kept Sam and traded for capital, if not gone with Lamar or even Carr 

Joe is in year 6 not one of the previous years has a Qb out performed Sam lol 

Maccagnan brought in Ryan Fitzpatrick and Brandon Marshall and won 10 games. Joe Douglas hasn’t  even approached that. 
 

footnote- Brandon Marshall had the best individual season in Jets history maybe besides Gastineau.

.

[kmnj]

2 hours ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

JD is supposed to be this guru of the wide receiver position because he drafted GW but he also whiffed hard on Mims and moore

And signed perriman Davis lazzard and cj ( to catch passes) the last three are near $100 million in contacts

[CanadaSteve]

1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

I have extreme confidence in my draft evals

Then get your ass to 1 Jets Way and get hired damnit!

[Jet_Engine1]

8 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

[JetsFlyer]

2 hours ago, mfmartin said:

So what is your view on Douglas?

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luke warm ... being better than the past disasters isnt really a compliment  .. hes built a roster but has whiffed on QBs and OTs..   but who wants to come here? with woodrow?