Wasn't Matt Leinart Supposed to Suck?

[afosomf]

BTW i will gladly pay you $100 if Penne brings us a SB

If i have to ante $100 to make it happen it will be money well spent.

Hint you probably have 2 years to win or lose Bet, i do not see this noodle

in jets long term interests;)

[Phinsuck]

BTW i will gladly pay you $100 if Penne brings us a SB

If i have to ante $100 to make it happen it will be money well spent.

Hint you probably have 2 years to win or lose Bet, i do not see this noodle

in jets long term interests;)

Unfortunately you're right. If Pennington doesn't bring us to a Super Bowl it won't be his fault, it will be because Mangini and Tanenbaum want to give their guy Clemens a shot to be the starter in the next couple of years.

[afosomf]

Unfortunately you're right. If Pennington doesn't bring us to a Super Bowl it won't be his fault, it will be because Mangini and Tanenbaum want to give their guy Clemens a shot to be the starter in the next couple of years.

Hello some of us are on the downsides of our life... the quicker he moves

to Clemmons the better.

Penne and the SB do not go together in a normal sentence,,, Do i think

Penne could have won the SB with Ravens instead of Trent Dildo.. Yes

with that D any QB could have won a ring.

trent was awful and ravens won in spite of him.

[steJMike]

Hello some of us are on the downsides of our life... the quicker he moves

to Clemmons the better.

Penne and the SB do not go together in a normal sentence,,, Do i think

Penne could have won the SB with Ravens instead of Trent Dildo.. Yes

with that D any QB could have won a ring.

trent was awful and ravens won in spite of him.

You said Leinart would win before Chad I said I would take that bet.

[Barton]

Chad Leinart err I mean, Matt Pennington ehhh sorry I mean MATT LEINART will be a good QB in the nfl barring another injury to his shoulder.

His arm looks good in the nice arizona weather, but I have seen his passes flutter just like Chad. His arm is just the same, you just wouldnt know it because Chad plays in the northeast. Big difference.

Oh and all he did yesterday was screens, dumpoffs and a few 8 yard passes with good timing allowing boldin and others to get YAC. Impressive for a rookie, but teams will take away his short game just like Chad.

[Barton]

It's the middle of October. Juszt wait until it starts getting real cold and real windy in the meadowlands and get back to me. His armstrength will always be an issue unless he plays in a dome. Same goes for Leinart.

ding ding we have a winner.

And to stejmike. Um his arm was definetly a handicap this past weekend. Any QB would have hit Coles on that 40 yarder, but chad threw a floater that got pushed too far outbounds for Coles to haul in. I wish I had a video of that to show you, but I have the game on tape. Chads arm is a handicap.

[BaumerJet]

If it wasn't for Neil Rackers missing two important fg's the guy would be 2-0 as a starter. He looked impressive as a rookie playing against a Chicago Bears defense that is the best the NFL has seen in years.

Enjoy.

Both times he's played in warm weather stadiums, which makes him a perfect fit for Arizona.

In cold weather, he would not survive - plain & simple!

And that kiddies, for the 1,999,999th time is why we did not draft him!

[Phinsuck]

Both times he's played in warm weather stadiums, which makes him a perfect fit for Arizona.

In cold weather, he would not survive - plain & simple!

And that kiddies, for the 1,999,999th time is why we did not draft him!

I don't know what the weather has to do with Matt Leinart making good reads against the best defense in football. The guy is an accurate passer who reads defenses well and his arm strength isn't anywhere nearly as bad as you make it out to be.

Chad Pennington has a weaker arm than Matt Leinart and yet somehow the Jets manage to win with him.

Did I mention he wasn't even playing with his best receiver, Larry Fitzgerald, on Monday Night? That takes away half your excuse for him having success in the NFL.

[Barton]

I don't know what the weather has to do with Matt Leinart making good reads against the best defense in football. The guy is an accurate passer who reads defenses well and his arm strength isn't anywhere nearly as bad as you make it out to be.

Chad Pennington has a weaker arm than Matt Leinart and yet somehow the Jets manage to win with him.

Did I mention he wasn't even playing with his best receiver, Larry Fitzgerald, on Monday Night? That takes away half your excuse for him having success in the NFL.

The Jets cant win with Chad Penningtons arm - therein lies the problem with Matt Leinart.

He has the same arm as Chad.

Case closed. Besides if you think Penny is so good, why do you care about the Jets passing on Leinart? Huh?

[Phinsuck]

The Jets cant win with Chad Penningtons arm - therein lies the problem with Matt Leinart.

He has the same arm as Chad.

Case closed. Besides if you think Penny is so good, why do you care about the Jets passing on Leinart? Huh?

Because I want the Jets to have a better QB of the future than Kellen Clemens.

You pretend like Pennington has never had success in the nfl. He's taken the Jets to the playoffs twice and won playoff games on the road. He is battle-tested. This team is overachieving at 3-3 mostly because Pennington has been excellent this year.

All the facts contradict what you say about Pennington and Leinart but that shouldn't really matter to you since you live in your own little world.

[Barton]

Because I want the Jets to have a better QB of the future than Kellen Clemens.

You pretend like Pennington has never had success in the nfl. He's taken the Jets to the playoffs twice and won playoff games on the road. He is battle-tested. This team is overachieving at 3-3 mostly because Pennington has been excellent this year.

All the facts contradict what you say about Pennington and Leinart but that shouldn't really matter to you since you live in your own little world.

You are right. Chad has a laser arm capable of throwing a 40 yard pass in the meadowlands in the winter.

I'm in my own little world on this I know. koo koo.

[madmike1]

Did you guys watch the game last night? leinart got l ike 80% of his yards on short passes that his WR's took for big gains. Chad could've made EVERY THROW that leinart made last night and he probably dosn't fumble at the 3 and cost his team 7 points.

[BwanaZulia]

You are right. Chad has a laser arm capable of throwing a 40 yard pass in the meadowlands in the winter.

I'm in my own little world on this I know. koo koo.

Yup.

BZ

[serphnx]

Because I want the Jets to have a better QB of the future than Kellen Clemens.

You pretend like Pennington has never had success in the nfl. He's taken the Jets to the playoffs twice and won playoff games on the road. He is battle-tested. This team is overachieving at 3-3 mostly because Pennington has been excellent this year.

All the facts contradict what you say about Pennington and Leinart but that shouldn't really matter to you since you live in your own little world.

You think beating the Titans, Bills and Fins while losing to the Colts, Patriots and Jags is overachieving? Maybe a better QB beat the Colts? I mean Vince Young almost beat the Colts, so now Chad being as good as a rookie is making the team overachieve? Chad has done an okay job, I'd give him a B- so far. I think plenty of other QBs would have had a similar record thus far. In fact, I'm certain that half the QBs in the league would have taken the Jets to 3-3 as well thus far. I think an actual top QB would have had us at 4-2 or even 5-1, and would have won the games we did win going away, rather than struggling at the end.

[raffyD]

You think beating the Titans, Bills and Fins while losing to the Colts, Patriots and Jags is overachieving? Maybe a better QB beat the Colts? I mean Vince Young almost beat the Colts, so now Chad being as good as a rookie is making the team overachieve? Chad has done an okay job, I'd give him a B- so far. I think plenty of other QBs would have had a similar record thus far. In fact, I'm certain that half the QBs in the league would have taken the Jets to 3-3 as well thus far. I think an actual top QB would have had us at 4-2 or even 5-1, and would have won the games we did win going away, rather than struggling at the end.

Absurd, you sound like someone that has not watched a single game this year.

[Sperm Edwards]

You think beating the Titans, Bills and Fins while losing to the Colts, Patriots and Jags is overachieving? Maybe a better QB beat the Colts? I mean Vince Young almost beat the Colts, so now Chad being as good as a rookie is making the team overachieve? Chad has done an okay job, I'd give him a B- so far. I think plenty of other QBs would have had a similar record thus far. In fact, I'm certain that half the QBs in the league would have taken the Jets to 3-3 as well thus far. I think an actual top QB would have had us at 4-2 or even 5-1, and would have won the games we did win going away, rather than struggling at the end.

Top QB's play NT?

[serphnx]

Absurd, you sound like someone that has not watched a single game this year.

And you sound like a delusional homer. I would trade Penny straight up for half the QBs in this league. I will make my list of 15 in a few minutes, right now I'm about to go to class though. We can debate from there if you would like.

[raffyD]

And you sound like a delusional homer. I would trade Penny straight up for half the QBs in this league. I will make my list of 15 in a few minutes, right now I'm about to go to class though. We can debate from there if you would like.

Gladly, just make sure your list includes exactly how those QB's would have stopped the offensive onslaught the Colts and Pats put on at the end of their respective games.

And btw, I take the delusional homer comment as a compliment, just ask BZ.

[Biggs]

You think beating the Titans, Bills and Fins while losing to the Colts, Patriots and Jags is overachieving? Maybe a better QB beat the Colts? I mean Vince Young almost beat the Colts, so now Chad being as good as a rookie is making the team overachieve? Chad has done an okay job, I'd give him a B- so far. I think plenty of other QBs would have had a similar record thus far. In fact, I'm certain that half the QBs in the league would have taken the Jets to 3-3 as well thus far. I think an actual top QB would have had us at 4-2 or even 5-1, and would have won the games we did win going away, rather than struggling at the end.

You overestimate the pitiful QB talent in the NFL. We have done what we should and beaten the teams we should because we have a smart decission maker at QB. We may have lost to teams we could have beaten with a different QB but I doubt it. Pennington is perfect for this team with this schedule. He is an outstanding QB when it comes to winning against the lesser NFL teams. Rex Grossman came close to showing you why good teams lose to bad opponents all the time. More talented QB make dumb decissions with the football every week in the NFL.

The Jets don't need to overachieve to win this year. They need to play smart football, learn the new systems and weed out the players who need to be off the team in the future. Pennington is perfect for this team this year.

[serphnx]

Gladly, just make sure your list includes exactly how those QB's would have stopped the offensive onslaught the Colts and Pats put on at the end of their respective games.

And btw, I take the delusional homer comment as a compliment, just ask BZ.

If Chad's value to the team makes it such that he makes the team better, why does he get the excuse for NT when he loses? That is ridiculous. If Chad can make the team better, he can also make it worse and be held accountable for losses. I just don't understand your stance on this, please explain. I mean if we're going to start giving credit to QBs who don't win, why can't we say Carr is the best QB in the NFL? Do you want me to make my list of QBs or not? I'm not going to waste my time if you don't even want to actually debate it, but I wouldn't mind debating who the better QB is if you're willing to do that.

[KSJets]

I think an actual top QB would have had us at 4-2 or even 5-1, and would have won the games we did win going away, rather than struggling at the end.

Which QB did you have in mind to play defense?

[raffyD]

If Chad's value to the team makes it such that he makes the team better, why does he get the excuse for NT when he loses? That is ridiculous. If Chad can make the team better, he can also make it worse and be held accountable for losses. I just don't understand your stance on this, please explain. I mean if we're going to start giving credit to QBs who don't win, why can't we say Carr is the best QB in the NFL? Do you want me to make my list of QBs or not? I'm not going to waste my time if you don't even want to actually debate it, but I wouldn't mind debating who the better QB is if you're willing to do that.

I already said to bring the list on, I'd be curious to see what those QB's have that Chad didn't in the games we lost this year and how we would have won those games because of those QB's.

[#27TheDominator]

Matt Leinart wasn't supposed to suck. He also was supposed to be the most NFL ready QB coming into the league. He's supposed to be ready to start before Cutler, that does not necessarily mean he is the better prospect.

[serphnx]

I already said to bring the list on, I'd be curious to see what those QB's have that Chad didn't in the games we lost this year and how we would have won those games because of those QB's.

Sure, I expect I expect I'll concede a few of those, but I think most of them I'd be happy with:

Tom Brady

Donovan McNabb

Peyton Manning

---------------------------------------------------------------------

The above 3 are what I mean by "elite" QB that I think would have posted a record better than Chad's, everything below I don't claim are necessarily better than Chad, just that they'd have posted the same record

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Carson Palmer

Steve McNair

Byron Leftwich

Matt Hasselbeck

Eli Manning

Marc Bulger

Philip Rivers

Drew Brees

Drew Bledsoe

Michael Vick (he might actually have more wins, but I don't feel right ranking him in that elite group)

Matt Leinart (very questionable, but people on this site seem to like him)

Ben Roethlisberger

David Carr

That's my list, we can discuss the ones you have problems with, but in the second list, let me again say I think they could have the same record, or I'd trade Chad straight up for them, not that they're necessarily better than Chad. The reasons are durability and arm strength, and also youth for a few of those. A few of them I'm willing to concede, but I think this is a good preliminary list. Let's actually get a good discussion going on this.

[jetfan4hire]

Leinart has been impressive so far, no doubt about it. He's even getting off the fantasy bench for my team and starting against the Raiders next week

[JetCane]

Oh and all he did yesterday was screens, dumpoffs and a few 8 yard passes with good timing allowing boldin and others to get YAC. Impressive for a rookie, but teams will take away his short game just like Chad.

The game and its aftermath is just weird. Getting out to the big lead, the comeback by da bears, Leinart looking good in spite of suspect playcalling, and the OC getting fired today.

The Cardinals offense bogged down on Monday nigth in the second half, allowing the Chicago Bears to erase a 20-point halftime deficit for a 24-23 comeback victory. The failure of the Cardinals' running game and blocking breakdowns that led to a fumble recovery for a touchdown helped fuel the Bears' comeback.

[serphnx]

I went to the trouble of making a list but now nobody even wants to comment

[Barton]

Woody Paige had a nice stat:

Of Leinarts 20 passes in the 2nd half this week, 19 of them were attempted passes less than 10 yards.

He's a rookie, so I'll give him time. But teams are gonna take that away from his game, but he does have a decent enuff arm to throw a pretty good deep ball and let his WRs make a play.

Arizona was the perfect fit for him.

[madmike1]

Sure, I expect I expect I'll concede a few of those, but I think most of them I'd be happy with:

Tom Brady

Donovan McNabb

Peyton Manning

---------------------------------------------------------------------

The above 3 are what I mean by "elite" QB that I think would have posted a record better than Chad's, everything below I don't claim are necessarily better than Chad, just that they'd have posted the same record

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Carson Palmer

Steve McNair

Byron Leftwich

Matt Hasselbeck

Eli Manning

Marc Bulger

Philip Rivers

Drew Brees

Drew Bledsoe

Michael Vick (he might actually have more wins, but I don't feel right ranking him in that elite group)

Matt Leinart (very questionable, but people on this site seem to like him)

Ben Roethlisberger

David Carr

That's my list, we can discuss the ones you have problems with, but in the second list, let me again say I think they could have the same record, or I'd trade Chad straight up for them, not that they're necessarily better than Chad. The reasons are durability and arm strength, and also youth for a few of those. A few of them I'm willing to concede, but I think this is a good preliminary list. Let's actually get a good discussion going on this.

I disagree with your list. Here is a list of QB's that i'd take over Chad.

Carson Palmer

Peyton Manning

Cindy Brady

---------------------------------------------------------------------

These are the 3 best QB's in football

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Matt Hasselbeck

McNabb

Philip Rivers

Byron Leftwich

Steve McNair

Ben Roethlisberger

Grossman

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Chad is better or at least comparable when healthy to the guys below this break.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Jay Cutler

Dave Carr

Eli Manning

Gradkowski

Marc Bulger

Drew Brees

Beldsoe

Michael Vick

Matt Leinart

[AVM]

I disagree with your list. Here is a list of QB's that i'd take over Chad.

Carson Palmer

Peyton Manning

Cindy Brady

---------------------------------------------------------------------

These are the 3 best QB's in football

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Matt Hasselbeck

McNabb

Philip Rivers

Byron Leftwich

Steve McNair

Ben Roethlisberger

Grossman

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Chad is better or at least comparable when healthy to the guys below this break.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Jay Cutler

Dave Carr

Eli Manning

Gradkowski

Marc Bulger

Drew Brees

Beldsoe

Michael Vick

Matt Leinart

Drop Mcnair out of that middle group, he's no where near the qb he used to be. And Grossman can't be up there til he has a complete season where he's healthy. If thats why Chad is in that 3rd group, Grossman has to be there too, imo.

[madmike1]

Drop Mcnair out of that middle group, he's no where near the qb he used to be. And Grossman can't be up there til he has a complete season where he's healthy. If thats why Chad is in that 3rd group, Grossman has to be there too, imo.

I really like what mcnair brings to the table man he's responsable for 3 wins BY HIMSELF this year. As far as grossman goes i'm a fan of his but i can see the arguement that he belongs in that 3rd group and i won't argue it. the point is that Chad is somwhere around the 10th-12th best QB in football. Thats not a guy you dump.

[AVM]

I really like what mcnair brings to the table man he's responsable for 3 wins BY HIMSELF this year. As far as grossman goes i'm a fan of his but i can see the arguement that he belongs in that 3rd group and i won't argue it. the point is that Chad is somwhere around the 10th-12th best QB in football. Thats not a guy you dump.

Eh, i guess i can see about the 3 wins by himself...but i think he's at a point in his career where he's less likely to be able to do that week in and week out. As far as Chad, i agree 100%.

[serphnx]

Gladly, just make sure your list includes exactly how those QB's would have stopped the offensive onslaught the Colts and Pats put on at the end of their respective games.

And btw, I take the delusional homer comment as a compliment, just ask BZ.

Manning, Brady and McNabb would have converted the 4th and 2 against the Colts and scored a TD there. They'd all have also started scoring much earlier against the Patriots, and they wouldn't have made the mistakes against the Jags that put us in that big early hole. Each of them would have been able to score points on the Jags. It doesn't mean we'd win all 3 of those losses, but it does mean that we could have had a win or two among those 3. In the games we won, they wouldn't have been such nailbiters because these guys can complete tough 3rd down passes when they need to in order to run out the clock, Brady has shown it time and time again, Manning has shown it in the regular season. McNabb just seems impossible to take down and a living big play machine, no matter what his WR's names are or how non-existant his run game is. There is no question in my mind that if McNabb was the QB on this team, we'd be more dominant on offense. I honestly think right now he is the best QB in football. I think Brady has slipped this year, or is still getting used to his WRs. Mc5 seems to be running on all cylinders, even though he lost to the Saints. In the 4th quarter though, I think he scored everytime he had the ball, so I don't know what else you can ask of him.

I blamed Hermy for the offense going into a shell the past 5 years in 4th quarters, but Hermy is gone and Chad is still here, and we seem to do the same thing. Come a crucial 4th quarter drive, we almost invariably go 3 and out when we have a lead, and sometimes when we are losing too. I don't know what's up with it. We also seem to fail a lot in the red zone when we do get there.

[TaborJet]

Not bad for a rookie. Compared to some other rookies:

Chad Pennington - did not play

Tom Brady - did not play

Peyton Manning - sucked

Drew Beldsoe - sucked

Phil Simms - sucked

...I mean the list goes on and on. I know it's only 2 games, but the kid has poise, confidence, and patience out there. Winning national championships will do that to you.

[serphnx]

Edited my list to put 3 categories, since I didn't specify it before:

Tom Brady

Donovan McNabb

Peyton Manning

---------------------------------------------------------------------

The above 3 are what I mean by "elite" QB that I think would have posted a record better than Chad's, the next category are better than Chad, but would probably have posted the same record, maybe have done better

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Carson Palmer

Ben Roethlisberger

Matt Hasselbeck

Eli Manning

Marc Bulger

Philip Rivers

Jake Delhomme

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Chad is in the next category, although because of his arm, youth and durabulity, Leftwich is probably a better prospect. The others are too old or have arm problems, or are unproven. They would probably have gotten the 3 wins though.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Steve McNair

Byron Leftwich

Drew Brees

Drew Bledsoe

Michael Vick (he might actually have more wins, but I don't feel right ranking him in that elite group)

Matt Leinart (very questionable, but people on this site seem to like him)

David Carr

So Chad is ranked somewhere between 11-16 on my personal ranking list, I'd probably put him around 15, behind Leftwich, McNair, Bledsoe and Brees right now. Other players like Grossman would belong here too. So basically, there are about 16 other QBs in the league that would have done just as well as Chad did, and 9 that may have done better. I don't see how this contradicts my stance on Chad in my debate with raffyD. It was my understanding that his and a few other's stance was that Chad is one of the better QBs in the league, and we wouldn't have done well with most other QBs. It is my belief that most of the league could have posted the 3-3 record we have now.