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Who Won The Debate

Maxman

By Maxman
in NY Jets Forum

Who won the debate?  

1 member has voted

  1. 1. Who won the debate?

    • BWANAZULIA
      54
    • patsfantx
      12

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PatsFanTX

PatsFanTX

Posted
Posted
How's Brady doing against winning teams post Weiss era?

The thread/debate has nothing to do with Brady.

It's about PennyBoy and the Jets improving as legitimate Super Bowl contenders.

And seriously, do you really think Brady has to prove he can win "big gams" against good defensive teams? :eek:

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GimmeShelter

GimmeShelter

Posted
Posted
The thread/debate has nothing to do with Brady.

It's about PennyBoy and the Jets improving as legitimate Super Bowl contenders.

And seriously, do you really think Brady has to prove he can win "big gams" against good defensive teams? :eek:

What did you say the record was?

BTW the thread was about the JETS.....you OCD'd it into being about Pennington.

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ECURB

ECURB

Posted
Posted

Oh wait.. but if we win against the Dolphins (top 10 defense) he would be:

4-3 in 2006.

Hmmm.

BZ

Haters cannot see good things about Chad... they just block it out...

4-3 would be very nice, we also are 5-2 overall on the road... If we didnt have a brain fart in the Browns game that could very well be 6-1 on the road which is very impressive.

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BwanaZulia

BwanaZulia

Posted
Posted
There you go again.

Just throwing out your opinion and pure speculation.

I'm sure PennyBoy will have a .750 winning percentage against top 10 defenses in 2007.

Hell, madmike presents more compelling arguements than you do.

Just using your logic.

If he was a .333 and has improved to a .500 in his first year with Mangini (the "Brilliant mind" that he is) he will improve again next year (for all the reasons I have posted a million times) to .750 next season.

You admitted he can beat bottom feeders, so 7 games of 10 next year of top ten defenses plus the 6 bottom feeders is a nice 12-4 record.

Worse case, he does as well as he done this year (.500), 5 + 6 bottom feeders gets you to a nice 11-5 record.

Thanks TX.

BZ

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PatsFanTX

PatsFanTX

Posted
Posted

Worse case, he does as well as he done this year (.500), 5 + 6 bottom feeders gets you to a nice 11-5 record.

And you don't think PennyBoy will lay an egg against one or two of the bottom-feeding teams next year?

You know, just like he did this year against the pathetic Browns.

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BwanaZulia

BwanaZulia

Posted
Posted
And you don't think PennyBoy will lay an egg against one or two of the bottom-feeding teams next year?

You know, just like he did this year against the pathetic Browns.

Possible. 11-5?

So now it comes down to Chad "laying an egg". MAN, your arguments are slipping away faster than you can type them (or have them PM'd to you)

BZ

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Phoenix

Phoenix

Posted
Posted
Here are the results

2002

Record as a starter: 8-5

Record against top 10 D's: 1-3 (W-Mia. L-Jax, Cle, Oak)

Playoffs:

Record 1-1 (both Indy and Oakland were ranked in the top ten)

2003

Record as a starter: 4-6

Record against top 10 D's: 0-4 (L-Phil, Buff, NE, Mia)

2006

Record as a starter: 7-6

Record against top 10 D's: 2-3 (W-Mia, NE. L-NE, Jax, Chi)

Total record against top ten D's

Regular Season: 4-15

Playoffs: 1-2

Source: http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/N...ar?sort_col_1=4

and

http://www.databasefootball.com/leagues/leaguelist.htm

Okay guys, those are the numbers. Go ahead and debate.

Top of my head..

Chad did not start the 2002 Jax game

Chad did not start the 2003 Philly game.

The Buffalo win and loss this year are missing

The Minnesota win from last week is missing.

Calls into question the validity of your research...or should I say the research of others that you parrot.

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PatsFanTX

PatsFanTX

Posted
Posted
Top of my head..

Chad did not start the 2002 Jax game

Chad did not start the 2003 Philly game.

The Buffalo win and loss this year are missing

The Minnesota win from last week is missing.

Calls into question the validity of your research...or should I say the research of others that you parrot.

First of all, that "research" was compiled by a Jets fan and a very knowledgable poster.

And your are correct, PennyBoy did not start the Jags game nor the Eagles game, however, he played in over 90% of both games.

He was 21-34, 281 and an INT against the Jags.

He was 14-24, 154 and an INT against the Eagles.

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Ten

Ten

Posted
Posted
First of all, that "research" was compiled by a Jets fan and a very knowledgable poster.

And your are correct, PennyBoy did not start the Jags game nor the Eagles game, however, he played in over 90% of both games.

He was 21-34, 281 and an INT against the Jags.

He was 14-24, 154 and an INT against the Eagles.

He didn't play 90% against the eagles.That was Herm doing his let's start the game with Vinny and put Chad in at a certain point of the game.I think he came in halfway through the second half.

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Phoenix

Phoenix

Posted
Posted
First of all, that "research" was compiled by a Jets fan and a very knowledgable poster.

And your are correct, PennyBoy did not start the Jags game nor the Eagles game, however, he played in over 90% of both games.

He was 21-34, 281 and an INT against the Jags.

He was 14-24, 154 and an INT against the Eagles.

He may be a knowledgable poster and he may be a Jet fan as well but he also could possibly not be a fan of Pennington and could skew his research to reflect his opinions of Chad...as I said, with just a quick glance I found 4 mistakes.

There very well could be more. Maybe not.

But it appears dubious at first glance.

And Pennington came into to Jax game after 10 minutes..and into the Eagle game after 25 minutes of play. Hardly "over 90% of both games"

(you see, that's a perfect example of someone skewing their research to reflect their opinions).

And since Chad did not start the games (and whomever's research you were using specifically used the term "Record as a starter")and did not spend the weeks prior fully practicing with the first team (a necessary thing in 2002 as someone who had never played a meaningful game and a necessary thing in 2003 coming back off a 10 week injury layoff) it is disingenuous to "credit" him with the losses in your analysis...unless you are bending the research to support a preconceived notion....which appears to obviously be the case.

And please note I point this out neither as a Chad defender or nor a Chad hater.

I believe I am sort of in the the silent majority that views Chad and takes Chad for what he is.

But an honest debate should be just that.

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PFSIKH

PFSIKH

Posted
Posted
So you entire argument just went down the crapper.

Chad IS getting better against top 10 defenses and there is no reason to think that another year in the system, another year healthy and another year with the rookie offensive line that he should do better.

.333 -> .500 -> .750

Oh wait.. but if we win against the Dolphins (top 10 defense) he would be:

4-3 in 2006.

Hmmm.

BZ

First, the 6-18 is accurate through week 15.

Second, I do not know about Tex's other reference, but mine are Top 10 scoring Ds. Minnesota is on the cusp of this at 11.

Last, this is why I usually revise my numbers at the end of the year. If the Bills get a 35 spot hung on them this weekend, chances are they drop out so wins and losses go away.

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GimmeShelter

GimmeShelter

Posted
Posted
First, the 6-18 is accurate through week 15.

Second, I do not know about Tex's other reference, but mine are Top 10 scoring Ds. Minnesota is on the cusp of this at 11.

Last, this is why I usually revise my numbers at the end of the year. If the Bills get a 35 spot hung on them this weekend, chances are they drop out so wins and losses go away.

And we'll all be waiting on pins and needles.:rolleyes:

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CTM

CTM

Posted
Posted
Top of my head..

Chad did not start the 2002 Jax game

Chad did not start the 2003 Philly game.

The Buffalo win and loss this year are missing

The Minnesota win from last week is missing.

Calls into question the validity of your research...or should I say the research of others that you parrot.

Chad played all but 1 series against Jax, and all but 1 quarter and 1 series against Phil. He should be the QB of record for those games.

Also technically he's 3-4 this year against top 10, since Min fell out of the top 10 last week, I believe those stats were for end of the yeart ratings, which is really all that makes sense...

Regardless TX, if Penny beats Miami, that will be atleast 4-4 against top 10 defenses, which definitely is an improvement.

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Sharrow

Sharrow

Posted
Posted

Thats why he lost the debate. All he had was "Chad doesn't have a good record against top 10 defenses"

So what. Offenses are almost always going to do worse against great defenses, in those cases, the quarterback needs support from the rest of the team to overcome that, either from the coaching staff, the defense, the special teams, or the running game. When has Chad had a lot of help from those?

Improvement on those parts of the team will have a lot to do with how good the Jets do next year as well, and TX didn't seem to want to talk about any of them. Chad's record against top 10 defenses is all he had. And its not easy to win a debate when you've only got 1 point to make. If TX won, then it means that any team without a great quarterback can't overcome a tough schedule, which is untrue. Maybe there were points out there that he could have made to win that argument, in fact there probably were, but he didn't make them, so he lost.

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PatsFanTX

PatsFanTX

Posted
Posted
I would like to thank my opponent for agreeing to debate me and making it fun.

Thanks to Max for setting it up.

BZ

I echo the same sentiments.

Max, hopefully you can keep this debate thing going.

You might want to ask your posters for some suggestions for improvement.

For the first time out of the box, I think it went over very well.

Congrats BZ.

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Garb

Garb

Posted
Posted

I thought the debate was cool - with a little "sham" mixed in for good measure. Don't see why a Pats fan would debate again though. Unlike a former Jets HC - I, personally, play to win. If you have zero chance of winning - what's the point? Oh I know, for fun. I can think of things that are more fun....;)

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Maxman

Maxman

Posted
  • Author
Posted
I echo the same sentiments.

Max, hopefully you can keep this debate thing going.

You might want to ask your posters for some suggestions for improvement.

For the first time out of the box, I think it went over very well.

Congrats BZ.

Definitely. We will do another one in January. This team we will pick a topic that both parties actually have a shot at winning. :P

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Maxman

Maxman

Posted
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Posted
Are you implying the last debate was rigged? :eek:

Not at all. If what you have said about the Jets is true, then it should have been a pretty easy debate for you.

Now if you are saying you found it to be challenging then maybe you aren't always being honest with us when you post. hhhhhmmmmmmmm.

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SoFlaJets

SoFlaJets

Posted
Posted
Damn the Herm thing is what we should do once the season ends. That one would be legendary. Not sure who would be brave enough to defend Herm at this point though.

you're gonna have to recruit either Tinstar or Lia Jensen back from JI and Gang Green to actually defend that moron

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BwanaZulia

BwanaZulia

Posted
Posted
So you entire argument just went down the crapper.

Chad IS getting better against top 10 defenses and there is no reason to think that another year in the system, another year healthy and another year with the rookie offensive line that he should do better.

.333 -> .500 -> .750

Oh wait.. but if we win against the Dolphins (top 10 defense) he would be:

4-3 in 2006.

Hmmm.

BZ

So it is official.

2005: 4-6 against top 10 defenses

2006: 4-3 against top 10 defenses

Hmm.... Better?

BZ

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