Tannenbaum Must Go!

[Sperm Edwards]

Thomas Jones was a STEAL and you all know it. Its the only reason we acquired him.The other steal we should have got was Randy Moss for a 4th round pick.

This team needs to seriously look into the defensive scheme we are using we dont have the players to make the 3-4 work.It was obvious yesterday.

4.0 yards per carry on the best team in the crappola NFC? Eh.

He's a good RB, nothing more. If everything else was in place, he wouldn't be a liability. But he'd have to be better...and younger, particularly at HB, for him to be a total steal. Randy Moss was a steal.

I hope he turns into whatever some here have imagined he would be, b/c he is ours for a while.

[The Troll]

Is $1 million too much to pay for an insurance policy for your QB? Mike Tannenbaum thinks so and because he wouldn't make Pete Kendall happy Pennington may be out for awhile. Tannenbaum has gone after STARS in the draft and free agency while ignoring where football begins -- the offensive line. Look at the horses Dallas assembled to protect their young quarterback. Tannenbaum is more concerned with saving money than with putting a winning team on the field. Like Bradway before him, Tannenbaum doesn't understand football basics. He's got to go and we need to find a real football man for GM

STARS in free agency? What stars? Kimo? Michael Haynes? Brad Kassell? Chatham? Poteat?To me, one of the biggest knocks on "Tangini" is their belief that they can turn scrap heap free agents into solid players. So far, they have failed miserably in that regard.BTW, I think it is funny how they were always "Tangini", but now it's just "Tannenbaum".

[Sperm Edwards]

STARS in free agency? What stars? Kimo? Michael Haynes? Brad Kassell? Chatham? Poteat?To me, one of the biggest knocks on "Tangini" is their belief that they can turn scrap heap free agents into solid players. So far, they have failed miserably in that regard.BTW, I think it is funny how they were always "Tangini", but now it's just "Tannenbaum".

Agreed. It's possible that Tannenbaum saw Bradway reach with players & vowed never to do it. He needs to find the happy medium. If you're going to spend money & draft picks, don't f-around. You want a guard & don't want to set a bad precedent with Kendall? Fine. You don't make a deal that pays him only $1.7M as a starter in the first place. You keep your original high 2nd-rounder & leave yourself enough ammunition to make a last-minute move for Justin Blalock; don't dick around with an almost-30 RB who couldn't muster an above-average ypc on the Bears in that crap conference & then settle on Clarke & Bender.

If he's smart - and not merely articulate - he can learn from this. Otherwise all we ended up with is an accountant for a GM.

[BwanaZulia]

BTW, I saw you after the game yesterday, hanging out with a Pats fan.

You traitor.

Yeah, my brother.

BZ

[Thor99]

Yeah, my brother.

BZ

I didn't know you came from a mixed family.

It's bad enough your wife is a phin fan.

[BwanaZulia]

I didn't know you came from a mixed family.

It's bad enough your wife is a phin fan.

I don't have no stink'n bills FANS though, which is good.

BZ

[Thor99]

I don't have no stink'n bills FANS though, which is good.

BZ

Wait til you have a kid.

[serphnx]

So find your post on this board where you said the trade was overated (before yesterday).

Link to it. I will enjoy the read.

BZ

This is about the O-line needing the upgrade:

http://jetnation.com/forums/showthread.php?p=606360&highlight=thomas+jones#post606360

Here's me telling Jet's fans to relax on TJ and mentioning how it's harder in the AFC as compared to the NFC:

http://jetnation.com/forums/showpost.php?p=534768&postcount=17

My concerns with the lines and fear that we will be a 4 win team:

http://jetnation.com/forums/showthread.php?p=517913&highlight=thomas+jones#post517913

And here is me voicing concerns even during the 2006 draft:

http://jetnation.com/forums/showthread.php?p=236128&highlight=thomas+jones#post236128

I think it's obvious I've said that O-line is the problem for awhile now and that TJ won't fix the mess. The reason why I can't say the trade is horrible is because we didn't really give up too much, and I didn't want to just be too negative for no reason. But I think it's clear I wasn't impressed by TJ and that I was very, very worried about this team.

Keep in mind I predicted 10 wins for 2006 when everyone thought we were going to get 4 wins, so it's not like I just predict doom and gloom.

[joebabyny]

Your 8.4 forty time had you plummeting in the draft.

I am pretty quick, I have to be, if I could outrun the five-oh but a guy like Miller can't then I gotta be fast, lol.

[Ghost]

One loss fellas, enough of the Pats and on to the Ravens.

[BwanaZulia]

Wait til you have a kid.

You mean like my 2 year old daughter? She has enough Jets stuff in her room to start a store.

When she sees a Jets logo she says "JETS!"

She can almost do the chant.

BZ

[PeterNorth09]

Jones is a 1200 yard rusher on the Bears. On the Jets he's an average RB behind a below average line, which makes him look like crap.

He'll have a couple of good games, but if the choice was

1. a cheap short-yardage RB (Duckett, etc) to complement Leon & they both run behind say Derrick Dockery entering his prime - AND retain our original draft position in round 2 so we didn't need to burn still more picks to trade-up for Harris.

2. An average RB - now 29 years old) who was in a good situation in Chicago, & they run behind Bender/Clarke

...we chose poorly.

Or how about cheap FA pick-up like Chris Brown that wouldn't have cost us the #35 pick in this year's draft? What did Brown get this past week? 180 yds?

Tanenbaum is definitely getting exposed this year. Last year he inherited mostly Bradway's players(not saying he was a great either), beat up on garbage teams like the Lions, Texans, Raiders and Vikings and Titans (before Vince Young's hot streak) and everyone said this guy was a genius. This year he's going against a tougher schedule and the team has more of his players.

Let's review the good, bad and ugly with Tanenbaum:

The Good:

Nick Mangold (pro-bowl Center)

Leon Washington

Darrelle Revis (though I would have rather gotten Quinn he'll still be good)

David Harris

Andre Dyson

The Bad:

Anthony Schlegel (what was he thinking?)

Kimo Von Oelhoffen

D'Brickashaw Ferguson

Marques Tuiasosopo (I know just a 3rd stringer but this guy is horrific)

Kenyon Coleman (not much of an upgrade over Kimo)

Adrian Clarke (sucks)

Kevan Barlow

Pete Kendall (a lousy $1 mil and we're already under the cap? c'mon)

The Ugly:

Thomas Jones (overrated 29 yr old RB who we trade a high pick for and give a contract?)

Brad Smith (what has this guy done really?)

Anthony Clement (average stop-gap player who we're being told is our RT of the future)

Jonathan Bender

So far Tanenbaum's best move has been drafting a Center. He's improved the secondary and, well, that's about it. Our offensive and defensive lines have gone to sh*t. D'Brick is not a franchise left tackle by any stretch of the imagination and DEWAYNE ROBERTSON IS NOT A FREAKING NT!

[NY JETS 29]

Is $1 million too much to pay for an insurance policy for your QB? Mike Tannenbaum thinks so and because he wouldn't make Pete Kendall happy Pennington may be out for awhile. Tannenbaum has gone after STARS in the draft and free agency while ignoring where football begins -- the offensive line. Look at the horses Dallas assembled to protect their young quarterback. Tannenbaum is more concerned with saving money than with putting a winning team on the field. Like Bradway before him, Tannenbaum doesn't understand football basics. He's got to go and we need to find a real football man for GM

he also helped draft dbrickashaw and mangold lol so lets not go crazy here

[NY JETS 29]

Or how about cheap FA pick-up like Chris Brown that wouldn't have cost us the #35 pick in this year's draft? What did Brown get this past week? 180 yds?

Tanenbaum is definitely getting exposed this year. Last year he inherited mostly Bradway's players(not saying he was a great either), beat up on garbage teams like the Lions, Texans, Raiders and Vikings and Titans (before Vince Young's hot streak) and everyone said this guy was a genius. This year he's going against a tougher schedule and the team has more of his players.

Let's review the good, bad and ugly with Tanenbaum:

The Good:

Nick Mangold (pro-bowl Center)

Leon Washington

Darrelle Revis (though I would have rather gotten Quinn he'll still be good)

David Harris

Andre Dyson

The Bad:

Anthony Schlegel (what was he thinking?)

Kimo Von Oelhoffen

D'Brickashaw Ferguson

Marques Tuiasosopo (I know just a 3rd stringer but this guy is horrific)

Kenyon Coleman (not much of an upgrade over Kimo)

Adrian Clarke (sucks)

Kevan Barlow

Pete Kendall (a lousy $1 mil and we're already under the cap? c'mon)

The Ugly:

Thomas Jones (overrated 29 yr old RB who we trade a high pick for and give a contract?)

Brad Smith (what has this guy done really?)

Anthony Clement (average stop-gap player who we're being told is our RT of the future)

Jonathan Bender

So far Tanenbaum's best move has been drafting a Center. He's improved the secondary and, well, that's about it. Our offensive and defensive lines have gone to sh*t. D'Brick is not a franchise left tackle by any stretch of the imagination and DEWAYNE ROBERTSON IS NOT A FREAKING NT!

HOW CAN YOU PUT DBRICKASHAW IN YOUR BAD??? ITS WEEEEEEK 2, HE CAME ON GREAT TOWARDS THE END OF THE SEASON. YOUR ENTITLED TO YOUR OWN OPINION BUT THATS DUMB

[mudcat21]

HOW CAN YOU PUT DBRICKASHAW IN YOUR BAD??? ITS WEEEEEEK 2, HE CAME ON GREAT TOWARDS THE END OF THE SEASON

He got consistently worse as the season went on last year. Looks like he hasn't improved over the offseason and actually looked worse in Week 1 than Week 16 last year.

[NY JETS 29]

he doesnt deserve to be on the bad list, he was solid for us last season as a rookie and the preseason doesnt matter according to most people. i just dont see how he can be a on a bad list week 2 into the regular season as a sophmore when he started all 16 games for us last season. if this is week 5 and are qb's are still being knocked on there a$$ ill eat my words

[ECURB]

HOW CAN YOU PUT DBRICKASHAW IN YOUR BAD??? ITS WEEEEEEK 2, HE CAME ON GREAT TOWARDS THE END OF THE SEASON. YOUR ENTITLED TO YOUR OWN OPINION BUT THATS DUMB

No he didnt... that was Drob,.... Dbrick got small and looked tired..

[gang_green03]

he doesnt deserve to be on the bad list, he was solid for us last season as a rookie and the preseason doesnt matter according to most people. i just dont see how he can be a on a bad list week 2 into the regular season as a sophmore when he started all 16 games for us last season. if this is week 5 and are qb's are still being knocked on there a$$ ill eat my words

Some people just like to jump to unreasonable conclusions. Its been proven time and time again that it usually takes rookies 3 years to hit their stride. Its completely unreasonable to label players as bad picks or busts until you at least get 2 seasons to judge (even though its supposed to be 3).

You'd have a lot more busts if people were given up on after a year.

[Sperm Edwards]

It's not merely a matter of "bust" - you take a player #4 overall, then with the exception of QB. WR, and maybe CB, you expect the guy to already be above-average in year two. If not, you aren't getting the most out of that pick. Can't give a guy a 6-year contract with $18M guaranteed & he's below average for (at least) the first third of that contract.

Now let's say he starts to turn the corner & is now at least above-average in year 3. You've got years 3, 4, and 5 of having a good player & then in year 6 at the latest you give him an extension. That extension will come with yet another giant signing bonus/guaranteed $. So for 5 years, the guy learned for two & was above average (but maybe still not 'great') for 3, then it's time to pay him even more. That sounds like a crappy deal. If it were a FA who performed like that we'd say it was a bad acquisition.

I can deal with it if it's a skill position. They're much riskier & much more hit & miss. D'Brick wasn't merely taken because we needed a left tackle better than Adrian Jones. A team in massive need of rebuilding all over can't also deal with a bust for a top-5 pick. I believe they chose him (1) because he was a top prospect, (2) need for the position, and (3) choosing him over other players/need positions b/c it's considered a safer pick than something like QB. Yeah, there are players like Mike Williams & Robert Gallery. But a total bust that's traded for almost nothing - or outright released from the team team - a few years later like Williams is pretty rare for an OL. Much more likely for a QB or WR (Akili, Harrington, Carr, Couch, Leaf & a bunch of WR's) than for a top OL prospect.

A lineman you take that high - particularly in THAT draft, which everyone overlooks - should have no weakness in his game. He can't be so-so at run-blocking. Ideally, you'd like 500 of your offensive plays to be runs. He should be expected to dominate at it or you take someone else & find a good-but-not-great player at another point in the draft or in FA.

And so far he isn't just weak in the run-game. He's weak at everything. He was supposed to be the next Walter Jones & right now he looks a lot more like the next Robert Gallery. The Jets' investment & lack of depth are the only reasons he's even starting.

[DonCorleone]

It's not merely a matter of "bust" - you take a player #4 overall, then with the exception of QB. WR, and maybe CB, you expect the guy to already be above-average in year two. If not, you aren't getting the most out of that pick. Can't give a guy a 6-year contract with $18M guaranteed & he's below average for (at least) the first third of that contract.

Now let's say he starts to turn the corner & is now at least above-average in year 3. You've got years 3, 4, and 5 of having a good player & then in year 6 at the latest you give him an extension. That extension will come with yet another giant signing bonus/guaranteed $. So for 5 years, the guy learned for two & was above average (but maybe still not 'great') for 3, then it's time to pay him even more. That sounds like a crappy deal. If it were a FA who performed like that we'd say it was a bad acquisition.

I can deal with it if it's a skill position. They're much riskier & much more hit & miss. D'Brick wasn't merely taken because we needed a left tackle better than Adrian Jones. A team in massive need of rebuilding all over can't also deal with a bust for a top-5 pick. I believe they chose him (1) because he was a top prospect, (2) need for the position, and (3) choosing him over other players/need positions b/c it's considered a safer pick than something like QB. Yeah, there are players like Mike Williams & Robert Gallery. But a total bust that's traded for almost nothing - or outright released from the team team - a few years later like Williams is pretty rare for an OL. Much more likely for a QB or WR (Akili, Harrington, Carr, Couch, Leaf & a bunch of WR's) than for a top OL prospect.

A lineman you take that high - particularly in THAT draft, which everyone overlooks - should have no weakness in his game. He can't be so-so at run-blocking. Ideally, you'd like 500 of your offensive plays to be runs. He should be expected to dominate at it or you take someone else & find a good-but-not-great player at another point in the draft or in FA.

And so far he isn't just weak in the run-game. He's weak at everything. He was supposed to be the next Walter Jones & right now he looks a lot more like the next Robert Gallery. The Jets' investment & lack of depth are the only reasons he's even starting.

You are absolutely correct.

Not to mention that because he is naturally smaller than most players at his position, he has a tendency of wearing in the second half. He may become a decent player at some point...but how is that worth a #4 pick??

[PeterNorth09]

HOW CAN YOU PUT DBRICKASHAW IN YOUR BAD??? ITS WEEEEEEK 2, HE CAME ON GREAT TOWARDS THE END OF THE SEASON. YOUR ENTITLED TO YOUR OWN OPINION BUT THATS DUMB

First off, the player you're referring to is D-Rob, not D-Brick, so get your facts straight before you try to level personal insults on people you dumbass.

Second, I think other guys on this thread have stated pretty clearly why Brick has so far been a disappointment. He makes our running game worse. He almost got Chad killed last week and he just isn't that good especially considering how people were screaming for months before the draft about what a great player he was going to be.

Is he Robert Gallery? No, Gallery is one of the most inept players in the league I wouldn't be that harsh to Brick. But he is right now nowhere near Walter Jones, Jonathan Ogden, Orlando Pace or anyone the know-it-alls compared him too.

And to top it off. What makes Brick a bad move is that the 2006 draft was absolutley loaded at the OT position. The Jets could have easily waited to the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, even 5th round and gotten someone as good or better than Fergie. Unless he does a 180 that qualifies as a bad move by Tanenbaum and Mangini.

[Green DNA]

You mean like my 2 year old daughter? She has enough Jets stuff in her room to start a store.

When she sees a Jets logo she says "JETS!"

She can almost do the chant.

BZ

Lucky you. My daughter is 12 and she always tells me that the Jets stink. When got home from the Patriots game she asked me if the Jets won. When I told her no she said, "No surprise, the Jets always lose". WTF?

[Green DNA]

First off, the player you're referring to is D-Rob, not D-Brick, so get your facts straight before you try to level personal insults on people you dumbass.

Second, I think other guys on this thread have stated pretty clearly why Brick has so far been a disappointment. He makes our running game worse. He almost got Chad killed last week and he just isn't that good especially considering how people were screaming for months before the draft about what a great player he was going to be.

Is he Robert Gallery? No, Gallery is one of the most inept players in the league I wouldn't be that harsh to Brick. But he is right now nowhere near Walter Jones, Jonathan Ogden, Orlando Pace or anyone the know-it-alls compared him too.

And to top it off. What makes Brick a bad move is that the 2006 draft was absolutley loaded at the OT position. The Jets could have easily waited to the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, even 5th round and gotten someone as good or better than Fergie. Unless he does a 180 that qualifies as a bad move by Tanenbaum and Mangini.

Hindsight is 20/20. Every one of the draft guru's had D'Brick rated as a stud going into the draft and the Jets got high grades for drafting him. It's easy to look back now and say we should have done this, that or the next thing. That can be done with any draft. If we could do that, even I could go back and put together the best team in the history of the game.

[flgreen]

Lucky you. My daughter is 12 and she always tells me that the Jets stink. When got home from the Patriots game she asked me if the Jets won. When I told her no she said, "No surprise, the Jets always lose". WTF?

At age 2 children are totally trusting, They figure if you love the Jets, they must be good.

By age 12 they realize they have been betrayed, and led down a road of heartache, and rebel.

Trust me, by the time she is 12 she will know the truth

[Green DNA]

At age 2 children are totally trusting, They figure if you love the Jets, they must be good.

By age 12 they realize they have been betrayed, and led down a road of heartache, and rebel.

Trust me, by the time she is 12 she will know the truth

The worst part is that my son is 17 and a die hard Jets fan. I did this to him and I need to live with that. Oh, the pain.

[flgreen]

The worst part is that my son is 17 and a die hard Jets fan. I did this to him and I need to live with that. Oh, the pain.

I have a 38 YO, a 35 YO, and a 21 YO. All Jet fans.

The two older ones don't talk to me because of it, it's an addiction I have passed along.

The young one, hasn't suffered enough just yet to be angry at me.

I guess I deserve it

[Sperm Edwards]

Hindsight is 20/20. Every one of the draft guru's had D'Brick rated as a stud going into the draft and the Jets got high grades for drafting him. It's easy to look back now and say we should have done this, that or the next thing. That can be done with any draft. If we could do that, even I could go back and put together the best team in the history of the game.

Agree that you can play this game with anyone. But it's not fair to say that this is all 20/20. Many of us thought other players were a better selection for us than D'Brick. And not because he hasn't panned out yet 17 months after the draft.

We had several needs. Left tackle was just one of them.

Going into that particular draft, there were a handful of players thought to be good-to-great prospects (D'Brick, Justice, McNeill, Winston) and some other generally well-regarded OT prospects (Whitworth, Colledge, Scott, Trueblood, & O'Callaghan). Every year there are multiple OT prospects coming out. Maybe they didn't all have D'Brick's draft-day grade, but it's not the impossible to fill position we made it out to be by selecting him so high.

What you are seeking with the #4 overall pick is not merely a good/great player. But rather a good/great player that isn't so easy to find without the aid or necessity of a #4 pick.

That's why QB's continue to get selected so high, even if they're not consensus can't miss prospects. Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Carson Palmer, etc are never hitting free agency. So that's why some were screaming for us to take Leinart or Cutler.

I still contend that the most impossible position to find is a premiere NT prospect who has the capability to excel in the 3-4. A space eater with real talent & athletic ability - how many of them are there in the entire league? Are there even five of them? It's such a rare position that people keep re-signing Ted Washington & Sam Adams way past their primes. If we were dead-set on stubbornly sticking with the 3-4 no matter what, Ngata was the pick. For an illustration of how tough he is, watch us try to run up the gut in 2 days, as Cincy tried 4 days prior.

A team can win games without a good offense. If you can't stop the run, you've got to be capable of 30 points against anyone (NO '06, KC '02-'06, Indy, & others) or you're not winning jack squat. And without a top NT, you are simply not going to stop the run against good teams & will also have difficulty against the pass b/c your NT isn't occupying or creating enough trouble for the opponent's OL to blitz effectively.

[gang_green03]

It's not merely a matter of "bust" - you take a player #4 overall, then with the exception of QB. WR, and maybe CB, you expect the guy to already be above-average in year two. If not, you aren't getting the most out of that pick. Can't give a guy a 6-year contract with $18M guaranteed & he's below average for (at least) the first third of that contract.

Now let's say he starts to turn the corner & is now at least above-average in year 3. You've got years 3, 4, and 5 of having a good player & then in year 6 at the latest you give him an extension. That extension will come with yet another giant signing bonus/guaranteed $. So for 5 years, the guy learned for two & was above average (but maybe still not 'great') for 3, then it's time to pay him even more. That sounds like a crappy deal. If it were a FA who performed like that we'd say it was a bad acquisition.

I can deal with it if it's a skill position. They're much riskier & much more hit & miss. D'Brick wasn't merely taken because we needed a left tackle better than Adrian Jones. A team in massive need of rebuilding all over can't also deal with a bust for a top-5 pick. I believe they chose him (1) because he was a top prospect, (2) need for the position, and (3) choosing him over other players/need positions b/c it's considered a safer pick than something like QB. Yeah, there are players like Mike Williams & Robert Gallery. But a total bust that's traded for almost nothing - or outright released from the team team - a few years later like Williams is pretty rare for an OL. Much more likely for a QB or WR (Akili, Harrington, Carr, Couch, Leaf & a bunch of WR's) than for a top OL prospect.

A lineman you take that high - particularly in THAT draft, which everyone overlooks - should have no weakness in his game. He can't be so-so at run-blocking. Ideally, you'd like 500 of your offensive plays to be runs. He should be expected to dominate at it or you take someone else & find a good-but-not-great player at another point in the draft or in FA.

And so far he isn't just weak in the run-game. He's weak at everything. He was supposed to be the next Walter Jones & right now he looks a lot more like the next Robert Gallery. The Jets' investment & lack of depth are the only reasons he's even starting.

I disagree with you on much of this.

You're implying that only skill position players need time to adjust to the NFL and that's just not true. Almost all positions need a couple years but LT is right up there with the others you mentioned. Most LT don't come in and play great from the start. McNeil was an outlier not the norm. Off the top of my head both Levi Jones and Jonathan Ogden struggled early on. I know Levi Jones wasn't very good until after 3 years when he became one of the top LTs. I remember analysts talking about how Ogden had to be moved to RT when he was young because he couldn't handle LT yet (they were trying to defend Gallery when they said it).

When looking at it through the eyes of a contract you're right they're not getting as much return on investment as they would like but doesn't that happen for the majority of these rookie contracts, even if they're sucessful? Most rookies take 3 years to be worthy of the huge contracts they get when they're drafted.

When you're saying lineman taken high shouldn't have weaknesses I don't think that's true. The only two taken that high that were without weaknesses were Ogden and Pace. Especially Pace since he was just rediculous in college. I believe Jones went top 15 so I dunno if he was a lights out prospect. In Brick's case his extreme athleticism supposedly made up for his average run-blocking ability. Its not so much about having no weaknesses as it is how good of a prospect you are overall. As a prospect Brick was pretty high up there on the all-time LT list.

Also, saying in that draft, especially, he should've been perfect doesn't make sense to me either. As good as McNeil is he fell for a reason. If he didn't have the injury concern he would've gone higher but it is still a weakness. Who else could we have gotten instead of Brick? That wasn't the best o-lineman class ever. Also, he was clearly the best prospect in that class, holes in his game or not, there's no deying that.

Looking at his season I think McNeil makes it look a lot worse than it was. Overall I saw an average year from him last year at LT. He wasn't great but he wasn't terrible and he hit a wall towards the end of the season. I just don't understand expecting greatness right off the bat. Again, that almost never happens.

If you wanna start criticizing after this year I can live with that. But I don't like when people jump to conclusions about rookies. They need 3 years to prove themselves one way or the other. At least give it 2 years before you even begin to pass judgement.

[Green DNA]

Agree that you can play this game with anyone. But it's not fair to say that this is all 20/20. Many of us thought other players were a better selection for us than D'Brick. And not because he hasn't panned out yet 17 months after the draft.

We had several needs. Left tackle was just one of them.

Going into that particular draft, there were a handful of players thought to be good-to-great prospects (D'Brick, Justice, McNeill, Winston) and some other generally well-regarded OT prospects (Whitworth, Colledge, Scott, Trueblood, & O'Callaghan). Every year there are multiple OT prospects coming out. Maybe they didn't all have D'Brick's draft-day grade, but it's not the impossible to fill position we made it out to be by selecting him so high.

What you are seeking with the #4 overall pick is not merely a good/great player. But rather a good/great player that isn't so easy to find without the aid or necessity of a #4 pick.

That's why QB's continue to get selected so high, even if they're not consensus can't miss prospects. Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Carson Palmer, etc are never hitting free agency. So that's why some were screaming for us to take Leinart or Cutler.

I still contend that the most impossible position to find is a premiere NT prospect who has the capability to excel in the 3-4. A space eater with real talent & athletic ability - how many of them are there in the entire league? Are there even five of them? It's such a rare position that people keep re-signing Ted Washington & Sam Adams way past their primes. If we were dead-set on stubbornly sticking with the 3-4 no matter what, Ngata was the pick. For an illustration of how tough he is, watch us try to run up the gut in 2 days, as Cincy tried 4 days prior.

A team can win games without a good offense. If you can't stop the run, you've got to be capable of 30 points against anyone (NO '06, KC '02-'06, Indy, & others) or you're not winning jack squat. And without a top NT, you are simply not going to stop the run against good teams & will also have difficulty against the pass b/c your NT isn't occupying or creating enough trouble for the opponent's OL to blitz effectively.

I don't dispute anything that you are saying here because it certainly makes sense and there was a lot of debate over who we should have picked going into the draft. Some of the players mentioned were guys that panned out, ie: McNeil and Ngata and a lot were guys that underperformed last year. The thing that I took away from the Jets draft last year was that we took a franchise left tackle and a surefire mainstay at center, solidifying the line for the next 10 years. I agree that we shoud lhave addressed the NT position, but one can argue that a stud protecting your QB's blind side is just as valuable. I didn't hear a lot of people trashing the draft last year (except the Schlegel / Smith picks), most were happy, as was I. We're all disappointed in D'Brick to this point, but we can't trash his selection now, when we loved the pick last year. IMO, the huge mistake was not signing Pat Williams when he was a FA two (three?) years ago under the previous regime.

[TheSage]

Tannenbaum must go? Why-because they didn't cave into Kendall? There were several reasons they didn't give into Kendall 1. they did not want to set a precedent by caving into a player demand 2. they are building for a championship not this year but next or the year after 3.Kendall has a reputation as a clubhouse instigator and finally 4. Does anyone think this was done without Mangini input?

I've been a Jets fan since the Jets were the Titans and Al Dorow was the QB and this is probably the first regime trying to build a foundation that will last a while.

Parcells tried to get Tanenbaum to join him, Bellechick didn't get upset with Crennel or Weis leaving but hated the thought of Mangini on the opposition sideline-does that say anything?

[Barton]

Put Brick on the colts, and he gets probowl votes. Guaranteed.

Get a real QB in here who can keep 8 guys off the LOS. Its nearly impossible for the Olineman to know which guys are rushing and where they are going if there are 8 or 9 guys crowded up at the LOS and 5 or 6 are rushing the QB/plugging up any holes to run the ball, on every damn snap.

Brick had his dominance last season, from say weeks 6-12. Then he hit the rookie wall and struggled. I expect him to never be Orlando Pace, but I do expect him to be a top 5 LT by the time we open up the new stadium.

[gang_green03]

Put Brick on the colts, and he gets probowl votes. Guaranteed.

Get a real QB in here who can keep 8 guys off the LOS. Its nearly impossible for the Olineman to know which guys are rushing and where they are going if there are 8 or 9 guys crowded up at the LOS and 5 or 6 are rushing the QB/plugging up any holes to run the ball, on every damn snap.

Brick had his dominance last season, from say weeks 6-12. Then he hit the rookie wall and struggled. I expect him to never be Orlando Pace, but I do expect him to be a top 5 LT by the time we open up the new stadium.

You had to open Pandora's Box. We were having a good D'Brickashaw debate. I hope ecurb doesn't see this.

[Kentucky Jet]

Is $1 million too much to pay for an insurance policy for your QB? Mike Tannenbaum thinks so and because he wouldn't make Pete Kendall happy Pennington may be out for awhile. Tannenbaum has gone after STARS in the draft and free agency while ignoring where football begins -- the offensive line. Look at the horses Dallas assembled to protect their young quarterback. Tannenbaum is more concerned with saving money than with putting a winning team on the field. Like Bradway before him, Tannenbaum doesn't understand football basics. He's got to go and we need to find a real football man for GM

BRICK & CHAD miscommunicated on the play he was hurt! Review the tape and you will learn that CHADWICK did not step up in the pocket. BRICK& CLARKE pushed the rushing DE to the outside. NICK was pushed back, up-the-gut and CHAD did not try see the DE on the outside heading towrds him full speed ahead! Why blame anyone else? It happened and thius is a TEAM game. Chad was as much fault as anyone else.

[Barton]

You had to open Pandora's Box. We were having a good D'Brickashaw debate. I hope ecurb doesn't see this.

Like I said a few days ago. Its the chicken and the egg arguement.

ecurb can stick it in his ear.

[gang_green03]

BRICK & CHAD miscommunicated on the play he was hurt! Review the tape and you will learn that CHADWICK did not step up in the pocket. BRICK& CLARKE pushed the rushing DE to the outside. NICK was pushed back, up-the-gut and CHAD did not try see the DE on the outside heading towrds him full speed ahead! Why blame anyone else? It happened and thius is a TEAM game. Chad was as much fault as anyone else.

Didn't anyone ever tell you that its only a team game when it helps your arguement.

And please people can we not mention the words "Chad" or "Pennington" in threads like this. You know where that's gonna lead...