The Jets defense has multiple issues, etc.

[JetCane]

I just read through all the articles Kentucky posted (thanks KJ!) and something from Hutchinson's column jumped out at me, so I am going to run with it. He wrote:

The Jets' subpar defensive performance against a struggling Dolphins offensive line, anchored by rookie center Samson Satele, sparks anew the debate that they simply don't have the personnel to play a 3-4 scheme and Mangini is tying to force a square peg into a round hole.

On paper, there seems to be no way that a team with as much defensive talent as the Jets have -- nose tackle Dewayne Robertson, defensive end Shaun Ellis, an above-average linebacking corps led by Jonathan Vilma, sensational rookie cornerback Darrelle Revis and talented safety Kerry Rhodes -- should be giving up huge chunks of yardage every week.

This season the Jets rank 27th in the NFL in total defense, allowing an embarrassing 386 yards per game.

After the Dolphins game, one Jets player just shook his head in disbelief when asked how a defense with so much talent could give up so many yards. The player, who requested anonymity because he feared being fined by the club if he spoke publicly about the team's discontent, suggested that players are feeling increasingly restricted in the disciplined structure of the 3-4 alignment because they can't simply run to the ball and make plays. Ten of the Jets' 11 starters on defense come from a 4-3 scheme. Only defensive end Kenyon Coleman, a former Cowboy, has experience in the 3-4 defense.

In addition, Mangini's inability to acquire a 350-pound nose tackle to anchor his defense has been criticized. He has opted to use the 310-pound Robertson and 300-pound Sione Pouha as nose tackles

Let's break it down.

On paper, there seems to be no way that a team with as much defensive talent as the Jets have should be giving up huge chunks of yardage every week.

-First, there is the talent issue. My take is that other than some really terrific players in the league (guys like LT, Brady, Manning, Ed Reed, Urlacher,who can take over a game) there is not a huge talent difference between most teams. Games are often decided by a few key plays, and playoff teams edge out non-playoff teams by a game or two in the standings. The margin of error is small.

There is enough talent on the Jets D to play much better than they have. Granted, guys are going to miss tackles, get beat by WRs and overrun plays from time to time, and there is a mano a mano factor that each player must execute. But the dropoff in production from last season by too many guys- Thomas, Hobson, Ellis, D-Rob, is alarming. But there are enough playas to make "it" work. But what is "it"?

-"It" is the scheme, and if that little blurb from the article is to be believed, then it is clear that the players are not fully buying into the system.

It seems that there is frustration with the scheme and how it is "restrictive".

I think this accounts for many of the players, especially the LBs and to some extent the DL, from playing with the kind of reckless abandon that hard-hitting defense need to show. They arent flying to the ball, they are thinking to much and not reacting enough. The scheme is inhibiting their instincts, and it is not me- it is the player Hutch spoke with that said it. Let's look at that sentence again, because i think it goes to the heart of what is puzzling many of us.

The player, who requested anonymity because he feared being fined by the club if he spoke publicly about the team's discontent, suggested that players are feeling increasingly restricted in the disciplined structure of the 3-4 alignment because they can't simply run to the ball and make plays.

The team's discontent. Wow. This is front page stuff for us die-hard Jet fans.

It isnt often that you'll get such an honest window into what is going on in their heads, and this speaks volumes. Now, Mangini needs to deal with this, but i am also placing a large amount of fault on Sutton, who is running the D, and calling the signals. HE has to be at the top of the food chain of his unit, and it does not seem he is effectively running the defense, nor is he commanding the respect of the players.

I mentioned over the last day or so that you cant fire all the players, so sometimes wneh a change is needed, baseball team change managers. There is a valid reason for doing that. Look how the Mets fired their hitting coach over the ASB and the bats have come alive ever since. Sometimes new blood is needed at the top. Sutton is not such a valuable commodity. 'Nuf said.

-Mangini's inability to acquire a 350-pound nose tackle to anchor his defense has been criticized.

Well, many of us amateurs have already beaten this drum, and unfortunately, nothing is going to change about the NT position. All I can say is that EM is at fault for placing too much faith in an undersized NT. i have said that the NT is the centerpiece of the 3-4, and we dont have a centerpiece.

Sure, there are times they line up with four down, but i didnt see the anonymous player referring to that as an out for the problems with the scheme that is CAUSING DISCONTENT.

And discontent is not good. There was a lot of discontent in tc with the Kendall thing, with players feeling emasculated about having to practice to classical music, there was a minimum of hard contact that would have toughened them up, and again, there seemed to be issues with the scheme.

We've had injuries to DBs, including Dyson, Miller, E. Smith, but the major problems seem to be with the front seven. If they are not buying into this thing, it does not bode well for their production, nor the future of Mr. Sutton, who should be thinking about putting a for sale sign up if things dont get better fast.

That is all.

[JetCane]

Part 2 LOL

One day this summer when I was driving home from TC, i was listening to the FAN. it was the day that the fan went to tc, and they were interviewing players after practice.

Fatcessa did his usual crappy interview with Vilma, and as soon as it was over, and Vilma left the microphone, Fatcessa went on about how he "hated" the 3-4 but would never say it. "He hates it".

Well, I dont know if they tried to move Vilma over the off-season or not, but he is here, and though a lot of you may disagree, he has been better so far this season than he was last year, in my opinion. he still takes bad angles and gets pushed by OGs, but he has been better. I also noticed they are dropping him back into coverage a LOT more. He has rarely blitzed, and the team as a whole has not blitzed much. That is on Sutton, who is calling the defensive signals. This D is playing on its heels, losing the point of attack at the LOS (which was mentioned in one of the other articles KJ posted) and SOMETHINGS need to CHANGE. They can not vontinue palying like sacks of sh1t. Is Sutton incapable of making these changes? Look, Mangini did a good job last year, as did Schottie, who continues to do well, but i am not under the impression that Mangini is some kind of defensive genius. And if his DC is incapable of devising playcalls and schemes to maximize the talent he has, maybe he should get the boot. Put up or shut up.

Hobson was aight last year- not graet, but i thought he was aight. He has sucked so far this year.

Thomas? Invisible. It is unvelieable. last year he was coming on, and now he is invisible.

Barton? Getting older. Still has the spirit, but may have lost a step. i think this is his last year with the Jets.

Harris. He has done well against the run, but I think the CS thinks he is still somewhat of a liability in pass coverage, and they are bringing him along.

-Revis. Has been a gem.

-Dyson? i dont know. he has the foot injury, but why is he palying at all? He was running with the second team in tc, and there is a reason for that that i am not privy to. Maybe he isnt as fast because of his foot, or maybe he lost step but no one is talking about it. We'll see.

-Poteat? WTF? Has he seen the field?

-Coleman? Another CB who has been riding the pines a lot.

-E.Coleman. he's been game, made more than his share of mistakes so far, but he has been in there most of the time.

E. Smith? Another guy who hasnt been playing as much as i would have liked.

-Rhodes. hopefully, after a slow start, he is coming on now.

-Barrett. i thought he played well against the Fish. He is more of a second teamer that they have been using as a starter.

The DL- Kenyon has been good against the run, not much of a pass rush, but he is an upgrade over what they had last year.

-D-Rob= D-Small

-Pouha- not ptoducing enough to derail D-Rob

-Mosley? Where has he been?

Ellis? Fair at times, good at times, invisible too many times.

But we know these guys can play if they get on the same page and get it going. Who's job is it to put them in the scheme and the position to make plays? The DC.

This D has underachieved in all three games. Okay, you want to write off the Pats game b/c they are so good? Well, why wasnt the gameplan to put pressure on Brady? it wqorked last year. He had all day back there. I dont think any of them got withing the same area code as him.

-Kyle Freakin Boller? C'mon, we can do better than that.

Trent Wffin Green? The Jets D made him look like a pro-bowler.

i am sorry, but I think most of this is falling on the CS, for not doing a good enough job implementing THEIR system and tweaking it to accomodate the players they have.

[JETSFAN5180]

Ive been saying this for awhile. The JETS dont have the players to run a productive 3-4.Its quite obvious.

[JetCane]

Ive been saying this for awhile. The JETS dont have the players to run a productive 3-4.Its quite obvious.

That certainly is a defensible position.

Many posters have said that before, that the current talent isnt compatible with the 3-4. Unfortunately, since there does not seem to be any short term or long term plan to revert to the 4-3, another solution must be found. And if it is going to take several seasons before they have all the 3-4 players they need to run their scheme, then why bother playing Pennington at all. Just go with Clemens if you're going to trash the defense for the next couple of seasons.

On one hand, forcing these 4-3 pegs into the 3-4 hole is akin to running an offense where every series calls for setting up the long bomb from Chad to Cotch. It poorly utilizes the available talent on the team. If you are inflexible enough to only want to run a deep pass offense, then play KC.

But the OC has done a good job tailoring the offense to what he has. Why cant the DC do that?

So, on the other hand, barring a complete reversal of scheme, they MUST be more creative and innovative in desgining the scheme and playcalling to maximize what they have. The first three weeks have MINIMIZED the talent. Almost everyone is underproducing! Like I said before, it isnt all the players fault when the entire unit is underproducing.

So where is the innovation and defnsive genius? Where is the creative playcalling? Why havent they tried different players to change the CHEMISTRY?

Because this is a chemistry thing as much as anything. Why hasnt Poteat, Coleman, DeVito, Mosley or Trusnik played?

Shake up the lineup, be creative with the playcalling, enough of this vanilla, restrictive crap.

I wish i could say I feel better after this rant, but I really wont until the defense starts to play better- a L0T better!

Do you hear me, Sutton?

[shawn306]

The problem is is that we seem to have been going through this since Herm got here.

I'm sorry but there are alot of guys here who are either hitting their prime or are getting close.

Robertson

Thomas (Where the hell has he been the first three weeks ?

Vilma

Hobson

Coleman (Another MIA)

Rhodes

and now you can throw in Revis and Harris as well.

I really feel the defense just is not going out there and teeing off. When you have to think for even just a split second about where you have to be that is all the offense needs to get a big play.

Defense to me is a very simple concept.

Get to the guy with the ball.

Get there with bad intentions.

[Kentucky Jet]

Your post is am important piece of writing! I loved it and agree with it. I hope that you do not mind but I copied it and brought it to the GREENHOUSE. I think all Jets fans should read that article you wrote! It was excellent. I have urged you to enter journalism in the past. I still feel that it is your calling. You have a nice, natural way of saying things in print without offending anyone! You never miss a point and write very well! Great job, Jetcane!

[Christos607]

Nice article man. Now I'm so pissed I won't be able to sleep! LOL

It seems that things may get worse before they get better. I'll be real pissed if they trade Vilma and the 3-4 fails. They better not get rid of our talent.

F*$k the 34.

F*$k Sutton.

The main benefit of a 34 is simply to disguise blitzes.

F*$k the deceptive trickery bullsh!* you learned from Belicheat. Let's just play some old fashion, straight up, hard hitting football.

Seriously, the 4-3 works for many teams, why not build from what we have instead of tearing it apart?

If the front three don't demand double coverage every down (and they don't) then both of the OGs job is to take out both of the MLBs.

[DireJet38]

At least we play Buffalo this weekend.

I think things will eventually get straightened out -- it is only Mangini's second year with the club.

The malcontents can pack their bags and head out.

[JetCane]

Your post is am important piece of writing! I loved it and agree with it. I hope that you do not mind but I copied it and brought it to the GREENHOUSE. I think all Jets fans should read that article you wrote! It was excellent. I have urged you to enter journalism in the past. I still feel that it is your calling. You have a nice, natural way of saying things in print without offending anyone! You never miss a point and write very well! Great job, Jetcane!

Thanks man, i appreciate it. You should probably include all three posts, since i needed a trilogy to get out what I wanted to say.

The malcontents can pack their bags and head out.

Something tells me there may be more than you can shake a stick at, and some of them are already just cashing their paychecks.

[RSJ]

I don't see any way around not getting rid of Vilma. Unless if we get a different DC in here who thinks he can use him on the outside in a Rosevelt Colvin type of a role. Lets face it Rhodes is bigger than Vilma and that is not going to change.

As far as the NT goes everyone knows we need one. Which would mean D Rob would have a very limited role in this defense once we get one. I think we should go sign Haynesworth to a huge contract AND try to draft a NT sort of high in the draft.

Looking back at that Pats game and I know that the Pats have blown out everyone. But besides that they picked up huge chunks on first down. That kills a defense.

[Damaged89]

Nice article man. Now I'm so pissed I won't be able to sleep! LOL

It seems that things may get worse before they get better. I'll be real pissed if they trade Vilma and the 3-4 fails. They better not get rid of our talent.

F*$k the 34.

F*$k Sutton.

The main benefit of a 34 is simply to disguise blitzes.

F*$k the deceptive trickery bullsh!* you learned from Belicheat. Let's just play some old fashion, straight up, hard hitting football.

Seriously, the 4-3 works for many teams, why not build from what we have instead of tearing it apart?

If the front three don't demand double coverage every down (and they don't) then both of the OGs job is to take out both of the MLBs.

Disguising blitzes is better than not disguising them no? Most of the best defenses in the league run a 3-4. That is not an accident. We don't have the proper 3-4 personal. That is obvious. However we don't have great 4-3 personal either.

On the positive side the upcoming draft class has a ton of tweeners and several nose tackle prospects. I'll start doubting Tangini if they fail to take advantage of that. Until then I'm going to chalk it up to growing pains. It takes more than 1 season to build an elite defense.

[JetCane]

I don't see any way around not getting rid of Vilma. Unless if we get a different DC in here who thinks he can use him on the outside in a Rosevelt Colvin type of a role. Lets face it Rhodes is bigger than Vilma and that is not going to change.

As far as the NT goes everyone knows we need one. Which would mean D Rob would have a very limited role in this defense once we get one. I think we should go sign Haynesworth to a huge contract AND try to draft a NT sort of high in the draft.

Looking back at that Pats game and I know that the Pats have blown out everyone. But besides that they picked up huge chunks on first down. That kills a defense.

Off-season hypothetical moves are not an option at this point, RSJ.

What the FO and CS decided to go with this season was D-Rob, Vilma, Kenyon, etc., and Haynesworth is not on the team.

What is needed are changes NOW that will make the defense more productive THIS season. That's what i am talking about. This season, not next off-season.

And if this DC can not make the defense work better than it has with what he's got, then dump him before we bring in new players.

Sutton is out of excuses for HIS defense to be performing this poorly in year two.

[Damaged89]

And if this DC can not make the defense work better than it has with what he's got, then dump him before we bring in new players.

Sutton is out of excuses for HIS defense to be performing this poorly in year two.

Good point. What I don't understand is why Sutton has backed off this year. After the Browns game last season he was blitzing frequently and the defense was better for it. Why all the lame 3 man rushes this year?

[Bugg]

At least we play Buffalo this weekend.

I think things will eventually get straightened out -- it is only Mangini's second year with the club.

The malcontents can pack their bags and head out.

In retrospect the one thing I would give Edwards is that the same kind of defensive problems cropped up with the same players during his regime-Vilma, Ellis, Abraham, Thomas,Hobson, barton, Rhodes, Barrett-when they ran the 4-3. These guys do not blow up plays. The only guy so far you might see be a big-time "we must gameplan to stop him" guy is Rhodes. May be REvis or Harris will approach that.

Mangini is not a dumb guy. He knows this defense worked for the Pats, because he helped run it. Yes, the personnel is not ideal, but the 3-4 is going to be the defense. And again they run variations of several fronts within the 3-4, none of which are much help to skinny slow LBs with a Miami attitude. IF Vilma has a problem, may be he should've spent more time in the weight room over the offseason, because notwithstanding his whiny BS, he gets pushed around like a little girl. If this franchise's choice is Mangini or Vilma, it's time for Tannebaum to make some calls. May be KC's Jared Allen, he of several DWIs, coming off a 2-game suspension and on his way to free agency, might be a match for Vilma's old HC.

[RSJ]

In retrospect the one thing I would give Edwards is that the same kind of defensive problems cropped up with the same players during his regime-Vilma, Ellis, Abraham, Thomas,Hobson, barton, Rhodes, Barrett-when they ran the 4-3. These guys do not blow up plays. The only guy so far you might see be a big-time "we must gameplan to stop him" guy is Rhodes. May be REvis or Harris will approach that.

Mangini is not a dumb guy. He knows this defense worked for the Pats, because he helped run it. Yes, the personnel is not ideal, but the 3-4 is going to be the defense. And again they run variations of several fronts within the 3-4, none of which are much help to skinny slow LBs with a Miami attitude. IF Vilma has a problem, may be he should've spent more time in the weight room over the offseason, because notwithstanding his whiny BS, he gets pushed around like a little girl. If this franchise's choice is Mangini or Vilma, it's time for Tannebaum to make some calls. May be KC's Jared Allen, he of several DWIs, coming off a 2-game suspension and on his way to free agency, might be a match for Vilma's old HC.

I think KC would be a perfect match for Vilma.

JC, there is nothing that we can do to fix the defensive problems this year. For whatever reason the Jets FO chose to ignore the defenses biggest problem again this offseason. As far as sutton goes if there is a coach out there with 3-4 experience that will be an upgrade then by all means replace him right away. I'm hoping the Jets can get RAC in here next year personally.

[JetCane]

-Vilma, Ellis, Abraham, Thomas,Hobson, barton, Rhodes, Barrett-when they ran the 4-3. These guys do not blow up plays.

There is more than enough talent there to make plays. The talent isnt being properly utilized and that is on the coaching staff. Do you really think that 27 other teams have better talent on their D than the Jets do? I dont.

domer shame on you

[Bugg]

At least we play Buffalo this weekend.

I think things will eventually get straightened out -- it is only Mangini's second year with the club.

The malcontents can pack their bags and head out.

There is more than enough talent there to make plays. The talent isnt being properly utilized and that is on the coaching staff. Do you really think that 27 other teams have better talent on their D than the Jets do? I dont.

domer shame on you

C'mon. Where any of these guys anything more than okay in the 4-3? I understand the frustration, but be serious. None of these guys has ever been much better than above average, except Rhodes.

[RSJ]

There is more than enough talent there to make plays. The talent isnt being properly utilized and that is on the coaching staff. Do you really think that 27 other teams have better talent on their D than the Jets do? I dont.

domer shame on you

The Jets are missing two key ingredients and that is a pure pass rusher and a pure nose tackle. There is no defense you can run to mask this fact. And yes I'm willing to bet that there are 27 other teams that have a better NT/Pass Rusher combo than the Jets.

[JetCane]

The Jets are missing two key ingredients and that is a pure pass rusher and a pure nose tackle. There is no defense you can run to mask this fact. And yes I'm willing to bet that there are 27 other teams that have a better NT/Pass Rusher combo than the Jets.

I'm talking about overall talent on the D, not just at one or two positions.

Every team has their issues, and only a couple of teams are set at every position.

But good coordinators get the most out of their players and that clearly is not being done this season with our defense.

Like i said, this is the hand the FO decided to deal, and they need to do a better job dealing with it.

I'm tired of people on the board blaming the players for everything, and giving these coaches and FO passes all the time. Sutton got pwned by the Miami CS last week.

[RSJ]

I'm talking about overall talent on the D, not just at one or two positions.

Every team has their issues, and only a couple of teams are set at every position.

But good coordinators get the most out of their players and that clearly is not being done this season with our defense.

Like i said, this is the hand the FO decided to deal, and they need to do a better job dealing with it.

I'm tired of people on the board blaming the players for everything, and giving these coaches and FO passes all the time. Sutton got pwned by the Miami CS last week.

Dude, we don't have the players. What have any of these players ever done to show you they were great? Vilma had a good rookie year behind a good NT and Rhodes has been good. But other than that they suck. Every last one of them.

[SickJetFan]

There is more than enough talent there to make plays. The talent isnt being properly utilized and that is on the coaching staff. Do you really think that 27 other teams have better talent on their D than the Jets do? I dont.

domer shame on you

Since the 2000 season the JETS have been a bend dont break defense whether in 3-4 or 4-3

I hate to say it but we lost a play maker in J.Abe. even in all those years all those running back becoming probowl players against the JETS at least we had J.Abe to stop drives short with devastating sacks also demandin the double team which freed up Ellis to make more plays.

Not that I would want J.Abe back but clearly we need a playmaker on the line that will demand double and triple team, whether that be RDE, NT, or LDE, or OLB...

with all that said - I think the JETS are just slow starters and they will get a lot better as season goes on...so relax

[JetCane]

It goes back to what i said early in the thread. There is NOT a great disparity of talent between most teams. Saying the players suck is defeatist and gives the DC a complete pass for his ineptitude. Do you think the fish offense is so tremendous? It wasnt about talent. It was about the defense being unprepared for what they were doing.

This defense is capable of playing much better, and if you dont see that, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I am sure that if a better, more aggressive, more creative DC was in here, they'd be playing better.

Anyway, i'm out for the night. have a good one. see ya tmw!

[RSJ]

It goes back to what i said early in the thread. There is NOT a great disparity of talent between most teams. Saying the players suck is defeatist and gives the DC a complete pass for his ineptitude. Do you think the fish offense is so tremendous? It wasnt about talent. It was about the defense being unprepared for what they were doing.

This defense is capable of playing much better, and if you dont see that, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I am sure that if a better, more aggressive, more creative DC was in here, they'd be playing better.

Perhaps they would play more inspired football under a different DC. I also think that if certain defensive leaders are not buying into the defense they must get traded or they are going to undermine whatever coach is brought in to replace sutton.

[PaJetFan]

While watching and analyzing the Jets so far this season, I keep thinking two things in this order: #1 We need more talent and size on both offensive and defensive lines AND paradoxically #2 We still must be underproducing with the talent we have on those lines.

Doesn't anybody remember the vibe from last year??? As the season went on, we got better and better. We blitzed more and occassionally stopped the run. It was reasonably fun to watch. So I essentially convinced myself that last year, we improved in the 'system' and in the 3-4 as a team, as we learned that system. But now, with more talent vs last year (see -=K. Coleman for Kimotherapy) AND a whole year to really learn the defensive system...Why are we playing CRAPPY defense?

It's a mystery to me. Sometimes I think Mangini just can't motivate the guys early in the season. I don't know, but I watched the film of this last game, and I noticed that D-Robb is really coming off the ball slower on the snap. By the end of the year last year, he was shooting off the ball and beating the O-line multiple times per series!!

[Irish Jet]

I hate Herm as a coach but one thing we did have when he was here was a D that hit and one that would swarm to the ball. Under Mangini, we havent had that all.

[JetCane]

C'mon. Where any of these guys anything more than okay in the 4-3? I understand the frustration, but be serious. None of these guys has ever been much better than above average, except Rhodes.

In 2004 the Jets were the 7th ranked D

In 2005 they were 12th

Last year they were 20th

Now they are 27th.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&season=2007&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&Submit=Find

[#27TheDominator]

In 2004 the Jets were the 7th ranked D

In 2005 they were 12th

Last year they were 20th

Now they are 27th.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&season=2007&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&Submit=Find

That's if you go by yards per game. This is a serious bend but don't break defense. Yards are not how they measure success. If you use points per game:

In 2004 the Jets were 4th in ppg

In 2005 they were 23rd

Last year they were 6th

Now they are 27th.

IMO, part of the success or failure of the D is based on the O. In 2005, the feeble O caused the D to give up more points due to field position and more time on the field, more drives, etc. Last year, I feel the opposite is true. Even if Pennington can't put up tds, or quick strike, he can manage the game and that helps the D. I think we have to give more leash to Mangini than three games. The Pats are a powerhouse, Ravens a top team and our O did nothing for three quarters. I'm disappointed in the job they did against Miami, but a huge chunk of those points were while the Jets were just trying to kill clock.

Injuries are also a consideration, Dyson is out and Barrett was picked on something fierce the first week. DRob is also probably playing hurt and that may be part of the problem up the middle. Personally, I don't like bend but don't break/read and react Ds and I don't like the 3-4, but I don't like the cover 2 either. Then again, I still have some respect for Al Davis, so maybe I'm just a fossil. If they end the season top 10 or so in points allowed the D was a success.

[JetCane]

I'm disappointed in the job they did against Miami, but a huge chunk of those points were while the Jets were just trying to kill clock.

I'm not too sure about that. if I recall, miami was well over 200 yards in offense at halftime, which is well before the defense tried to sit on a lead.

BTW, Tom Rock wrote one of his better columns today which KJ has posted. i'd refer you to that for further info that feeds back into this thread.

[124]

If Andre Dyson was healthy, this defense would be performing a little bit better but when you don't get pressure on the Quarterback for the overwhemingly majority of games, your Corners are going to be beaten even if they're Champ Bailey and Ty Law back there.

We all know that Dewayne can fit into a 43 and play well but as a 34 NT he simply cannot be effective enough to draw the double teams on a consisent basis which leaves our best player on defense, Jonathan Vilma, out to dry. Maybe with a true 34 NT Vilma could be effective, but will we ever know that? I personally don't think so.

The lack of using Kerry Rhodes on blitzes so far this year is surprising as well. When he blitzes, he usually gets a lot of pressure on the QB but it seem as if Mangini is reluctant to bring him this year. Like 4H and others have said, I think Kerry is being underused / misused this season.

[JetCane]

This is a serious bend but don't break defense

I'm down with dat, but the concern here is that there has been too much breaking, and way too much bending. They need to tighten it up a lot.

[124]

I'm down with dat, but the concern here is that there has been too much breaking, and way too much bending. They need to tighten it up a lot.

Indeed.

Whenever you let Ronnie, 40 yards a game, Brown get over 200 yards on you, you're in trouble. Lets just say I'm glad Marshawn Lynch is on my fantasy team this week.

The defense must work on that screen pass because if not we're going to see much of the same from a more bruising back in Lynch.

Also, a bend but don't break type defense is not a comfortable one to have. It keeps you on the edge of your seat with 911 on speed dial waiting for the heart attack to come.

[#27TheDominator]

I'm not too sure about that. if I recall, miami was well over 200 yards in offense at halftime, which is well before the defense tried to sit on a lead.

BTW, Tom Rock wrote one of his better columns today which KJ has posted. i'd refer you to that for further info that feeds back into this thread.

I certainly may be incorrect about the Dolphin game. AFN didn't show it, the sopcast stream was of the Yankee game and none of the online radio broadcasts had it. Not easy to follow the game like that. Still, more than half the points were scored after the Jets went into clock killing mode.

I read Rock's article and I'd refer him to the numbers above. In 2006 the Jets were 20th in yards allowed and 6th in points against. I'm not sold on Vilma or DRob in the 4-3. They are good players, but don't sniff dominance. Ellis? He's been around a bit, how many good seasons has he had? One? Decent player, solid starter, nothing more.

This 3-4 may not be a dominating defense, but they'd pretty much blow as a 4-3 too. What would going to a 4-3 accomplish? Bowens at DE for Barton at ILB? Doesn't seem like that would solve our run D. Pouha/Mosley at DT for Barton at ILB? Not a whole hell of an advantage there. The idea that it will suddenly turn Vilma and DRob loose is a little farfetched to me. John Abraham was hands down the best player on this D. They let him walk for obvious reasons and have not replaced him. That's where the problem starts, IMO.

[#27TheDominator]

If Andre Dyson was healthy, this defense would be performing a little bit better but when you don't get pressure on the Quarterback for the overwhemingly majority of games, your Corners are going to be beaten even if they're Champ Bailey and Ty Law back there.

We all know that Dewayne can fit into a 43 and play well but as a 34 NT he simply cannot be effective enough to draw the double teams on a consisent basis which leaves our best player on defense, Jonathan Vilma, out to dry. Maybe with a true 34 NT Vilma could be effective, but will we ever know that? I personally don't think so.

The lack of using Kerry Rhodes on blitzes so far this year is surprising as well. When he blitzes, he usually gets a lot of pressure on the QB but it seem as if Mangini is reluctant to bring him this year. Like 4H and others have said, I think Kerry is being underused / misused this season.

I agree with all this. I don't see an advantage to switching back to base 4-3 this season, but I don't give Mangini/Sutton a pass for anything. Maybe a longer leash than some, but not a pass.

Indeed.

Whenever you let Ronnie, 40 yards a game, Brown get over 200 yards on you, you're in trouble. Lets just say I'm glad Marshawn Lynch is on my fantasy team this week.

The defense must work on that screen pass because if not we're going to see much of the same from a more bruising back in Lynch.

Also, a bend but don't break type defense is not a comfortable one to have. It keeps you on the edge of your seat with 911 on speed dial waiting for the heart attack to come.

Interesting. Like I said, I didn't get to see anything but highlights from the Miami game, but getting beat on screens is generally caused by overexuberant pass rush, and fired up over pursuit. Considering how many complaints have been for lack of fire and not pinning their ears back and going after the ball, this seems inconsistent. As 'cane suggested in another thread, some of this may have come from the rookie Harris missing an assignment, but a team on it's heels waiting to react doesn't usually get suckered by screens.

[124]

I agree with all this. I don't see an advantage to switching back to base 4-3 this season, but I don't give Mangini/Sutton a pass for anything. Maybe a longer leash than some, but not a pass.

Interesting. Like I said, I didn't get to see anything but highlights from the Miami game, but getting beat on screens is generally caused by overexuberant pass rush, and fired up over pursuit. Considering how many complaints have been for lack of fire and not pinning their ears back and going after the ball, this seems inconsistent. As 'cane suggested in another thread, some of this may have come from the rookie Harris missing an assignment, but a team on it's heels waiting to react doesn't usually get suckered by screens.

It didn't really happen on blitzes, it was more missed tackles. On the 43 yarder Bryan Thomas and I believe Victor Hobson were the 2 who missed Brown way back towards the line of scrimmage.

[DonCorleone]

The inability to find that 350lbs DL may also be because Mangini simply refuses to admit that there is a problem. Throughout the offseason he spoke of an athletic NT in DR. He would not even entertain the idea of signing a player who in his opinion, would not fit the mold. Ok so now that we have smart, athletic, small players that live for the most part clean lives, but we have no defence.

I'm sorry, but very often in life, good players finish last. Maybe Mangini will learn that in his second tour of duty with some other team, after all, isn't that allways the case?

I just read through all the articles Kentucky posted (thanks KJ!) and something from Hutchinson's column jumped out at me, so I am going to run with it. He wrote:

Let's break it down.

On paper, there seems to be no way that a team with as much defensive talent as the Jets have should be giving up huge chunks of yardage every week.

-First, there is the talent issue. My take is that other than some really terrific players in the league (guys like LT, Brady, Manning, Ed Reed, Urlacher,who can take over a game) there is not a huge talent difference between most teams. Games are often decided by a few key plays, and playoff teams edge out non-playoff teams by a game or two in the standings. The margin of error is small.

There is enough talent on the Jets D to play much better than they have. Granted, guys are going to miss tackles, get beat by WRs and overrun plays from time to time, and there is a mano a mano factor that each player must execute. But the dropoff in production from last season by too many guys- Thomas, Hobson, Ellis, D-Rob, is alarming. But there are enough playas to make "it" work. But what is "it"?

-"It" is the scheme, and if that little blurb from the article is to be believed, then it is clear that the players are not fully buying into the system.

It seems that there is frustration with the scheme and how it is "restrictive".

I think this accounts for many of the players, especially the LBs and to some extent the DL, from playing with the kind of reckless abandon that hard-hitting defense need to show. They arent flying to the ball, they are thinking to much and not reacting enough. The scheme is inhibiting their instincts, and it is not me- it is the player Hutch spoke with that said it. Let's look at that sentence again, because i think it goes to the heart of what is puzzling many of us.

The player, who requested anonymity because he feared being fined by the club if he spoke publicly about the team's discontent, suggested that players are feeling increasingly restricted in the disciplined structure of the 3-4 alignment because they can't simply run to the ball and make plays.

The team's discontent. Wow. This is front page stuff for us die-hard Jet fans.

It isnt often that you'll get such an honest window into what is going on in their heads, and this speaks volumes. Now, Mangini needs to deal with this, but i am also placing a large amount of fault on Sutton, who is running the D, and calling the signals. HE has to be at the top of the food chain of his unit, and it does not seem he is effectively running the defense, nor is he commanding the respect of the players.

I mentioned over the last day or so that you cant fire all the players, so sometimes wneh a change is needed, baseball team change managers. There is a valid reason for doing that. Look how the Mets fired their hitting coach over the ASB and the bats have come alive ever since. Sometimes new blood is needed at the top. Sutton is not such a valuable commodity. 'Nuf said.

-Mangini's inability to acquire a 350-pound nose tackle to anchor his defense has been criticized.

Well, many of us amateurs have already beaten this drum, and unfortunately, nothing is going to change about the NT position. All I can say is that EM is at fault for placing too much faith in an undersized NT. i have said that the NT is the centerpiece of the 3-4, and we dont have a centerpiece.

Sure, there are times they line up with four down, but i didnt see the anonymous player referring to that as an out for the problems with the scheme that is CAUSING DISCONTENT.

And discontent is not good. There was a lot of discontent in tc with the Kendall thing, with players feeling emasculated about having to practice to classical music, there was a minimum of hard contact that would have toughened them up, and again, there seemed to be issues with the scheme.

We've had injuries to DBs, including Dyson, Miller, E. Smith, but the major problems seem to be with the front seven. If they are not buying into this thing, it does not bode well for their production, nor the future of Mr. Sutton, who should be thinking about putting a for sale sign up if things dont get better fast.

That is all.