Thai Jet Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 If Gruden was such a brilliant offensive mind why was the offense always the Bucs weak spot? Hell look what Shotty did with Barlow and Pennington... by your reasoning he is better than Gruden... That's one big reason ecurb. The offensive "genius" also couldn't develop a young QB. He went thru a revolving door of marginal vets like Garcia and Griese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pragmatic Bus Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 With Dungy's team... nobody denies it... hell even he admitted he was handed a team ready to win... same can be said for this jets team built by mangini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aec4 Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 That's one big reason ecurb. The offensive "genius" also couldn't develop a young QB. He went thru a revolving door of marginal vets like Garcia and Griese. What 1st round QB did he have to work with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 ryans agent must have a boner he can hold the jets over a barrell for anything he wants dumb mistake they should have brought gruden in for an interview at least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jets Voice of Reason Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 What 1st round QB did he have to work with? You realize he has input in drafting too, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 What 1st round QB did he have to work with? Only QB he tried to develop in 7 years was Simms. And he has always had a revolving door with QBs. And yes HC's have input into who they want in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aec4 Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Only QB he tried to develop in 7 years was Simms. And he has always had a revolving door with QBs. And yes HC's have input into who they want in the draft. Sure they do... but they don't have final say, and sometimes teams have other needs. Simms was drafted at the end of round 3. I think he had some Brad G... can't spell the last name too w ho was a later round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spjets Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Good job, morons. ****ing stupid organization. you dating BRONZEY ?????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Jet Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 you dating BRONZEY ?????????? In his dreams I bet he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vudu Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 you dating BRONZEY ?????????? ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Talent has a lot to do with it my friend.. Tampa doesn't have it, and Gruden wasn't the GM. Now if you are going to judge offenses by STATS then we may as well not discuss things because they are meaningless. Look how much TB has tied up in cap space on D..... Rex Ryan is a good choice. I don't question that, but I'd like to consider gruden. WTF are you talking about? He only did as good as Shotty/Mangini did with Pennington and Barlow... Kimo and Drob on D... same can be said for this jets team built by mangini Yeah what a GREAT team the new coach is getting... lol... same thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETSorDIE Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Here's a good reason. (he's won a super bowl) with dungy's players Gruden = Billick once crowned offensive geniouses havent done nada since winning with a stout defense.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pragmatic Bus Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 WTF are you talking about? He only did as good as Shotty/Mangini did with Pennington and Barlow... Kimo and Drob on D... Yeah what a GREAT team the new coach is getting... lol... same thing! yeah a great team with seven probowlers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 With Dungy's team... nobody denies it... hell even he admitted he was handed a team ready to win... I've heard this lame argument over & over. If it was such a matter of formality that Tampa would win the super bowl then why didn't Tampa win it & why did they fire Dungy? The reality is they never won that many games before, and your "offensive rank" stuff doesn't consider that under Gruden - and ONLY under Gruden - were the Bucs #1 in the NFL in turnover-differential, #2 in points-scored differential, and #4 in yards-surrendered differential all in the same season. THAT is how you win games. By turning the ball over less, scoring more points, and moving the football more than your opponents. But not for nothing, their defense was ranked #1 in yards and #1 in points for the first & only time in team history. If it was so easy, then why didn't they accomplish it under Dungy? They also lost their most explosive offensive player in the off-season BEFORE the superbowl. As though that would have no effect whatsoever on their "offensive rank" on the year. They've also traded away or whiffed on 7 first round picks and 3 second round picks since 2000, AND were generally annual non-players in free agency (unless you count losing players to free agency). And with the exception of 2006, every year they're still a top-10 defense in yards and points. He put together a great team in Tampa but couldn't get there. And if the Colts didn't have Peyton Manning, Dungy's coaching career would just be that of another nothing-coach who once assembled a good roster that he couldn't get over the hump with. The guy gets way more credit than he's due. Compared to the rest of the league, Tampa is pretty much a roster full of low draft picks, bust-draft picks, old has-been's, and castoffs from other teams. Frankly, I'm amazed they won as many games as they did the past couple of seasons. Because on paper that team sucks something awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aec4 Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 with dungy's players Gruden = Billick once crowned offensive geniouses havent done nada since winning with a stout defense.... I don't give a rats ass who's players he had. TB couldn't win, he took over,and bam, there's Vince's trophy in route to TB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 I don't give a rats ass who's players he had. TB couldn't win, he took over,and bam, there's Vince's trophy in route to TB. Have to agree with this Class A reply here. Dungy couldn't win with Dungy's players. Dungy would have had a career of winning nothing if he didn't walk into a situation with a young veteran Peyton Manning (not to mention some "pretty good" WR's and RB's and a solid OL, particularly at LT, C, and RG). No one gets to just walk into a situation with a QB like that. Dungy has a good eye for talent, and genuinely seems like a great guy on a personal level. But frankly I'd take Gruden over him as a game-day coach, miserable rat-bastard guy that he probably is. I don't think it's that far-fetched to suggest Gruden would have had at least the same success as Dungy, if not better, had he walked into Dungy's situation in Indy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Have to agree with this Class A reply here. Dungy couldn't win with Dungy's players. Dungy would have had a career of winning nothing if he didn't walk into a situation with a young veteran Peyton Manning (not to mention some "pretty good" WR's and RB's and a solid OL, particularly at LT, C, and RG). No one gets to just walk into a situation with a QB like that. Dungy has a good eye for talent, and genuinely seems like a great guy on a personal level. But frankly I'd take Gruden over him as a game-day coach, miserable rat-bastard guy that he probably is. I don't think it's that far-fetched to suggest Gruden would have had at least the same success as Dungy, if not better, had he walked into Dungy's situation in Indy. i would take Dungy...in the end He Did Fix Indy's Def they would not have collapsed this year IMO also the revolving door... with Grudens handling of QB's was insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 i would take Dungy...in the end He Did Fix Indy's Def they would not have collapsed this year IMO also the revolving door... with Grudens handling of QB's was insane. Their defense was ranked around #20 in half his seasons there. And he had the luxury of only seeking out defense with his top 3 picks in his drafts if he so desired, since a top-2 offense was already in place when he got there. He has a good eye for talent. He's a mediocre gameday coach. Ridiculously talented players (on defense in Tampa and on offense in Indy) made him look like a far better coach than he was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Their defense was ranked around #20 in half his seasons there. And he had the luxury of only seeking out defense with his top 3 picks in his drafts if he so desired, since a top-2 offense was already in place when he got there. He has a good eye for talent. He's a mediocre gameday coach. Ridiculously talented players (on defense in Tampa and on offense in Indy) made him look like a far better coach than he was. we could say the say same thing bout mumbles!!! his record in Cleve was poor and then Mo Lewis changed his legacy:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 we could say the say same thing bout mumbles!!! his record in Cleve was poor and then Mo Lewis changed his legacy:D Mumbles, scumbag piece of garbage that he is, didn't walk into a situation with a veteran superstar QB with a veteran superstar WR and a veteran superstar RB and veteran pro bowl offensive line. It burns me to give him credit for anything, but the reality is he deserves a lot. Cheating shmeating. Every franchise tapes signals & don't go on to win 3 superbowls (and a late score away from a 4th). They also took some then-reaches with their first round picks that seem like no-brainers only in hindsight (Seymour, Mankins, Mayo). In Cleveland, a lot of his failure was apparently due to his lack of people skills (shocking, I know) and the players despised him (equally shocking). He did luck into Tom Brady being arguably as good a QB as anyone's ever seen. But it's not like Brady was Brady when they drafted him, let alone when Mumbles took over the team. Sometimes you get lucky. Winners take advantage of that luck. Losers revel in winning 9 or 10 games & how much better that is than winning 4 or 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aec4 Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Have to agree with this Class A reply here. Dungy couldn't win with Dungy's players. Dungy would have had a career of winning nothing if he didn't walk into a situation with a young veteran Peyton Manning (not to mention some "pretty good" WR's and RB's and a solid OL, particularly at LT, C, and RG). No one gets to just walk into a situation with a QB like that. Dungy has a good eye for talent, and genuinely seems like a great guy on a personal level. But frankly I'd take Gruden over him as a game-day coach, miserable rat-bastard guy that he probably is. I don't think it's that far-fetched to suggest Gruden would have had at least the same success as Dungy, if not better, had he walked into Dungy's situation in Indy. Only thing I'd say is Dungy had the brains to walk into INDY and leave the offense ALONE. I don't know if Gruden would have done the same.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boynton Beach Jets Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Gruden would be a bad fit with the Jets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Only thing I'd say is Dungy had the brains to walk into INDY and leave the offense ALONE. I don't know if Gruden would have done the same.. Not true. The offense took a HUGE step backward when Dungy got there, from the NFL's #2 offense they dropped to DungyHerm mediocrity with the #17 offense in 2002. Only after seeing the result of "Dungy's stamp on the offense" did they go back to the way things were. But Gruden had the brains to walk into Tampa Bay and leave the defense alone. Other than it got better than it ever was under Dungy, and gave up a full 5 points per game less than they did in 2001. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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