Is Dave Chappelle a comedy legend?

[Bruce Banner]

Red Foxx was so much more than Sanford and Son. He was a standup, writer and early innovator. He approached topics that were taboo and used language that opened the door for guys like Carlin and Pryor. He was a rebel who was also able to crossover into mainstream media and had one of the earliest true black comedy hits in TV history. Chappelle was funny. Not an innovator. Not a groundbreaker. You want to call him hall of fame worthy, I'll agree to that. But you guys are throwing around the word LEGEND way too freely.

Like I said, he's Flip Wilson.

[DMaynard]

I am impressed by sheer brilliance, not longevity. Give me Gale Sayers, you can have Curtis Martin. The Rick James bit alone makes this guy one of the best ever.

[CTM]

I don't think this emphasizes how good it was though. Chappelle's Show was the premier sketch comedy show of the 2000's. SNL still held some weight as the Ferrell/Quinn years were coming to a close, but the phenomenon that was Chappelle's Show had just a ridiculously huge impact. I was an undergrad for both seasons, and it was really unbelievable the amount of quotes you'd constantly be hearing on any given night in every setting. You'd be playing darts at the corner pub and hear out of the corner of your ear; "Correction, I had sex with Katie." Then the next morning you'd stumble into class and hear someone else throwing out "Yo Dave, gimme yo' sandwich." Everyone watched it, and I can't say the same for any sketch show from the past decade.

Not only that, but when Killin' 'Em Softly made the rounds, it was the same story. For anyone under the age of 30 or so, I just can't see how you wouldn't put him up along the all-time greats. You know exactly how big he was, and how influential his specials and shows were. If Dave Chappelle announced that a HBO special was coming out next week with new material, you'd watch it and memorize as many lines as you could off the first viewing so you could text them to your buddies as soon as it was over. If he was starting back up Chappelle's Show, you'd TiVO every episode and would be discussing with your friends how souped you were for its return. If he was starting a new show, you'd be watching. If you flipped through your TV right now, and the scene in Half Baked where he was dressed like the Jamaican dude was on, or singing the Samson song, you'd stop flicking through immediately and pause for at least that. If Killin' 'Em Softly or For What It's Worth was on, you'd not only stop to watch, but you'd hit the record button for your DVR as well. Who cares that he's spent so much time off the grid, I'd rather watch repeats of him than a new David Cross routine any day of the week. I don't know if anybody has ever completely deconstructed taboos better in the history of comedy. He is and will always be one of the all-time greats.

For comedians that have emerged in my lifetime, after Chris Rock, I really can't think of anyone else who had as big of an impact on American culture than Chappelle. You people are insane. And terrorists don't take black hostages.

I think your post inadvertantly hit on why he isn't a legend. Mass appeal. Everyone in high school/college knew about him, a lot of older people really didn't. I'm only a few years older then you (i think) and I never saw the show until recently, and was never really hooked partly cause I don't get a lot of the references (i couldn't pick lil john out of a 2 person line up, some skits are hilarious though)

When i was in high school, dice man was the same way. Everyone was quoting his jokes and doing immpressions, but I don't know that I'd consider him a legend.

[CTM]

I am impressed by sheer brilliance, not longevity. Give me Gale Sayers, you can have Curtis Martin. The Rick James bit alone makes this guy one of the best ever.

I thought Charlie Murphy's deadpan retelling of the story (and the cuts to the real Rick James) was the funniest part of that skit. The "I'm Rick James bitch" phenomenon is kind of dumb to me..

[RutgersJetFan]

I think your post inadvertantly hit on why he isn't a legend. Mass appeal. Everyone in high school/college knew about him, a lot of older people really didn't.

Meh, it's this really odd mentality that people carry over into all things, but most notably comedy and music from what I've noticed, "well, I've never heard of him (or them), so he can't be that big." Meanwhile the album's in the top 5, or the show's the #1 show on a major cable network. But hey, you've never heard of him, so he can't be all that big or have had mass appeal. Call it the Jewish-grandmother mentality that permeates pop culture.

[CTM]

Same could be said for Bill Hicks, without question a legend and one of the greats. It's this really odd mentality that people carry over into all things, but most notably comedy and music, "well, I've never heard of him (or them), so he can't be that big." Call it the Jewish-grandmother mentality that permeates pop culture. Besides, elder folk always dismiss the new groundbreakers. DAMN YOU KIDS AND YOUR COMEDY THESE DAYS!!!

That isn't what i meant really. Chapelle is 1000x funnier, but Dane Cook would be someone that i think a lot of College kids liked, but most adults thought was awful, perhaps a better example. There's just a lot of what was in that show that I either didn't get the references or thought was too sophmoric for anyone but kids to be enthralled by. (That being said, there's plenty of funny stuff as well)

Why was Chappelle ground breaking? I don't see how his show was all that different then say In Living Color, which pre-dates chapelle by a ton

[RutgersJetFan]

Why was Chappelle ground breaking? I don't see how his show was all that different then say In Living Color, which pre-dates chapelle by a ton

He turned modern racial taboos into catch phrases. He took modern outlooks on bigotry and racism and turned them not into sketches. Nobody took them on better than Chappelle, and nobody's really had the balls to do it since the show ended. Richard Pryor, Murphy, all greats...but their bits dealing with social issues, though still hilarious, just aren't on today. (Pryor himself stated that the torch had been passed to Chappelle right before he died). I guess one can argue that Rock has, but even if it is the case, taking 2nd to Rock can't really be a knock against anybody. I also can't agree with it not being different than In Living Color, Chappelle's Show was so much more racially & politically oriented and abrasive. Ask a Black Dude, the Racial Draft, Tron Carter's Law & Order, "Know what's so great about 'Skeet?' White people don't know what it means yet," The Niggar Family...you really could just go on and on. He was the only person capable of taking Wayne Brady and turning him in to everything that square, white America usually despises, yet making them love him for it in the process. He took Joe Rogan and got him to spoof his own show by commentating on how a crackhead would do it. He made 3 lines from Lil' John' the most popular catchphrases in America for a solid year.

Look at clips from a few recent standup shows he did. What comedian aside from Chappelle ever takes pop culture and puts it in the context of hilarious socio-racial problems? Nobody. None.

"What you need to do is visualize some roast beef and mashed potatoes with gravy."

[SenorGato]

He turned modern racial taboos into catch phrases. He took modern outlooks on bigotry and racism and turned them not into sketches. Nobody took them on better than Chappelle, and nobody's really had the balls to do it since the show ended. Richard Pryor, Murphy, all greats...but their bits dealing with social issues, though still hilarious, just aren't on today. (Pryor himself stated that the torch had been passed to Chappelle right before he died). I guess one can argue that Rock has, but even if it is the case, taking 2nd to Rock can't really be a knock against anybody. I also can't agree with it not being different than In Living Color, Chappelle's Show was so much more racially & politically oriented and abrasive. Ask a Black Dude, the Racial Draft, Tron Carter's Law & Order, "Know what's so great about 'Skeet?' White people don't know what it means yet," The Niggar Family...you really could just go on and on. He was the only person capable of taking Wayne Brady and turning him in to everything that square, white America usually despises, yet making them love him for it in the process. He took Joe Rogan and got him to spoof his own show by commentating on how a crackhead would do it. He made 3 lines from Lil' John' the most popular catchphrases in America for a solid year.

Look at clips from a few recent standup shows he did. What comedian aside from Chappelle ever takes pop culture and puts it in the context of hilarious socio-racial problems? Nobody. None.

"What you need to do is visualize some roast beef and mashed potatoes with gravy."

You're killin' it...mega rep.

As far as this generation goes, no comedian has walked the ground Chappelle's comedy walks on so well.

If he's not a legend now, he's a legend in the making. There's still one or two big shows in him.

[The Crusher]

This -- you don't walk away from 50 million --

but I loved his show though.

He probably had the same agents as Mevis. I h8t those focking guys.

[FreeMarketChampion]

Sadly he is a bitter loser and an overt racist that has lost his sanity.

So ...NO.

{MEMO SENT!]

[CTM]

He turned modern racial taboos into catch phrases. He took modern outlooks on bigotry and racism and turned them not into sketches. Nobody took them on better than Chappelle, and nobody's really had the balls to do it since the show ended. Richard Pryor, Murphy, all greats...but their bits dealing with social issues, though still hilarious, just aren't on today. (Pryor himself stated that the torch had been passed to Chappelle right before he died). I guess one can argue that Rock has, but even if it is the case, taking 2nd to Rock can't really be a knock against anybody. I also can't agree with it not being different than In Living Color, Chappelle's Show was so much more racially & politically oriented and abrasive. Ask a Black Dude, the Racial Draft, Tron Carter's Law & Order, "Know what's so great about 'Skeet?' White people don't know what it means yet," The Niggar Family...you really could just go on and on. He was the only person capable of taking Wayne Brady and turning him in to everything that square, white America usually despises, yet making them love him for it in the process. He took Joe Rogan and got him to spoof his own show by commentating on how a crackhead would do it. He made 3 lines from Lil' John' the most popular catchphrases in America for a solid year.

Following in the footsteps of what came before him isn't ground breaking, it's evolution. In living Color was on a major network in the 90's, of course they weren't going to be able to push boundaries as far, but they touched on the same subjects repeteadly, the public just wasn't ready for anything stronger. (At the end of the Black or White spoof video, where they change the song to "Am I Black or White" Michael Jackson gets arrested and says " i must be black" which elicits an audible groan from the audience). But they had Anton the drunk bum (very much the comedic father of Tyrone the crackhead), Oswald Bates the educated convict, the Homeboy shopping Network (stolen goods), Homey D Clown, etc.. The onyl real difference I see between the two is Chapelle is more vulgar, which 10 years time and being on cable TV afforded him..

Look at clips from a few recent standup shows he did. What comedian aside from Chappelle ever takes pop culture and puts it in the context of hilarious socio-racial problems? Nobody. None.

"What you need to do is visualize some roast beef and mashed potatoes with gravy."

I'd disagree with that, but I'm not familiar enough with Chappelle's stand up to understand the difference between him and any other black comedian who talks about these issues. The parts I've heard don't seem particularly unique to me

[RutgersJetFan]

I'd disagree with that, but I'm not familiar enough...

Lol...I give up.

[RutgersJetFan]

If he's not a legend now, he's a legend in the making. There's still one or two big shows in him.

That's the thing though, big shows aren't what makes or breaks a legend. It's different for everyone. There's no set parameters that one has to meet. I'm willing to bet that somewhere around 75-80% of people wouldn't know who Bill Hicks was if you took a random survey on the street. Yet that still doesn't change the fact that you'd probably get slapped silly if you tried arguing otherwise in the company of those knowing what they're actually talking about.

[CTM]

Lol...I give up.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, mostly. Your statment: "What comedian aside from Chappelle ever takes pop culture and puts it in the context of hilarious socio-racial problems? Nobody. None." seems kind of silly or to narrowly defined to be meaningful. The clip you posted isn't particularly original, clever or funny in a way that it would make the case of the originality you're claiming. Putting "white people" problems in the context of larger problems of different demographics is ground well covered.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, mostly. Your statment: "What comedian aside from Chappelle ever takes pop culture and puts it in the context of hilarious socio-racial problems? Nobody. None." seems kind of silly or to narrowly defined to be meaningful. The clip you posted isn't particularly original, clever or funny in a way that it would make the case of the originality you're claiming. Putting "white people" problems in the context of larger problems of different demographics is ground well covered.

So who in your mind is a revolutionary comic?

[dbatesman]

Dunno what the "legend" parameters are, but I've seen plenty of Chappelle and I still agree with Chan. Chappelle's stuff is always astute, mostly funny, and sporadically brilliant, but it's nothing new. Putting a sly twist on shopworn material and filtering it through the sketch medium doesn't qualify him as anything more than a rich man's Robert Smigel. The pop culture thing has a lot more to do with media saturation than Chappelle himself; if we're giving props for inventing catch phrases for white people, then Geico is the greatest comedy legend of them all.

[CTM]

So who in your mind is a revolutionary comic?

Good tactic. I'm not a comedy historian, so it's hard to say which conteporary comedians are "revolutionary" with any confidence. I just know when I watch Chapelle it doesn't feel new or differnt to me, it's funny, but in a similiar vein to things I've heard before. I could see saying his show was ground breaking for how far it went, but that seems more like opportunism, never before would a black comedian been given that freedom (and it wouldn't happen still today on network tv).

[SenorGato]

That's the thing though, big shows aren't what makes or breaks a legend. It's different for everyone. There's no set parameters that one has to meet. I'm willing to bet that somewhere around 75-80% of people wouldn't know who Bill Hicks was if you took a random survey on the street. Yet that still doesn't change the fact that you'd probably get slapped silly if you tried arguing otherwise in the company of those knowing what they're actually talking about.

This...this is true.

This sounds like a generational issue...one group saying "we've seen it done before" the younger group screaming back "not like this you haven't." To me, he's the funniest motherf*cker alive and his stuff legitimately hits home for me and many I grew up with. So in THAT case...then as a comedian he's one of those guys who can be described as the "voice of a generation"...but that's f*ckin lofty and implies more than any comedian could possibly want to see themselves as.

[CTM]

This...this is true.

This sounds like a generational issue...one group saying "we've seen it done before" the younger group screaming back "not like this you haven't." To me, he's the funniest motherf*cker alive and his stuff legitimately hits home for me and many I grew up with. So in THAT case...then as a comedian he's one of those guys who can be described as the "voice of a generation"...but that's f*ckin lofty and implies more than any comedian could possibly want to see themselves as.

This is kind of what i was saying in my first post.

[SenorGato]

This is kind of what i was saying in my first post.

Yes well the generational gap got in the way again.

Does "there's no original ideas anymore" hold water in stand up?

[#27TheDominator]

Red Foxx was so much more than Sanford and Son. He was a standup, writer and early innovator. He approached topics that were taboo and used language that opened the door for guys like Carlin and Pryor. He was a rebel who was also able to crossover into mainstream media and had one of the earliest true black comedy hits in TV history. Chappelle was funny. Not an innovator. Not a groundbreaker. You want to call him hall of fame worthy, I'll agree to that. But you guys are throwing around the word LEGEND way too freely.

I never said a bad thing about Redd Foxx other than that Sanford & Son was a sh*tty show in comparison with Chappelle's Show. You mentioned Rock had to "cross over" and the fact is, Chappelle crossed over the day that show came out. Foxx may have been groundbreaking, but his show was fairly lame and leans more toward selling out than crossing over. I disagree on Chappelle, but that's fine. You think he'll be forgotten, I think people will be saying "I'm Rick James, bitch!" for generations. I met an Italo-Philipino kid over here (his nickname is Gomez, but that's a whole 'nother story) who asked me if I knew Dave Chappelle as soon as he found out I was American. They don't even show the comedy central show over here.

[SenorGato]

I never said a bad thing about Redd Foxx other than that Sanford & Son was a sh*tty show in comparison with Chappelle's Show. You mentioned Rock had to "cross over" and the fact is, Chappelle crossed over the day that show came out. Foxx may have been groundbreaking, but his show was fairly lame and leans more toward selling out than crossing over. I disagree on Chappelle, but that's fine. You think he'll be forgotten, I think people will be saying "I'm Rick James, bitch!" for generations. I met an Italo-Philipino kid over here (his nickname is Gomez, but that's a whole 'nother story) who asked me if I knew Dave Chappelle as soon as he found out I was American. They don't even show the comedy central show over here.

Chappelle, like many smart Americans, has a huge following overseas.

[#27TheDominator]

Chappelle, like many smart Americans, has a huge following overseas.

Like Jerry Lewis? Talk about groundbreaking, cutting edge comedy!

[SenorGato]

Like Jerry Lewis? Talk about groundbreaking, cutting edge comedy!

Jerry does it for the kids.

[Morrissey]

Who the hell is Red Foxx?7

[SenorGato]

Who the hell is Red Foxx?7

Many/most of the dirty jokes of your parents generation are Red Foxx jokes.