DMaynard Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I've have been thinking about how to stop Manning. Here is what I would do on every third and long (let's say 3rd and 7 yards or more). I don't think my idea is radically different than the third and long substitution defense the Jets play, but it really emphasizes getting the most speed and pass coverage ability on the field. My scheme is born fom several observations. First, I think we can agree we have a couple of d-lineman (Pouha, DeVito) who are great at stopping the run and are pretty much non factors rushing the passer. Second, we have several LBers who are much better at rushing the passer than defending passes (Harris, Pace, Taylor). Finally, we have several young backup CBs who are fast and have been playing well lately (Cole, Wilson, Coleman). So, taking a page from Parcells's theory of putting players in their best position to succeed, here is the what I would field on third and long: The initial look would be a 4-3. There would only be one true d-lineman on the field and no true LBers playing LB. At DE would be Pace and Taylor/Scott. At DT would be Harris and Ellis/Pryce. The "LBers" would be Cole, Wilson and Coleman. And of course, Revis and Cro at CB and Poole and Lowery at safety. I have no use for Eric Smith. This will give a quicker pass rush, much quicker short and middle field coverage with no LBers to pick on and lots of speedy options to send on blitzes. Of course the downside is, you are much weaker against a run. Who cares? I'd rather tempt the Colts to run on 3rd and long than have Manning throw the ball anyday. Even if they successfully run for 7 yards or more to pick up the first down half of the time (which I doubt), that is still better than Manning throwing the ball and completing his usual 65 to 70 % of the time. And more of those completions are going to go for 20 or more yards than a run. Whaddayathink? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE ILK Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I think they should just tell them how good they are, that oughta do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I think they should just tell them how good they are, that oughta do it! Yeah, as long as the Colts don't overhear him saying that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE ILK Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Yeah, as long as the Colts don't overhear him saying that. By them, I meant the Colts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonTime Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I've have been thinking about how to stop Manning. Here is what I would do on every third and long (let's say 3rd and 7 yards or more). I don't think my idea is radically different than the third and long substitution defense the Jets play, but it really emphasizes getting the most speed and pass coverage ability on the field. My scheme is born fom several observations. First, I think we can agree we have a couple of d-lineman (Pouha, DeVito) who are great at stopping the run and are pretty much non factors rushing the passer. Second, we have several LBers who are much better at rushing the passer than defending passes (Harris, Pace, Taylor). Finally, we have several young backup CBs who are fast and have been playing well lately (Cole, Wilson, Coleman). So, taking a page from Parcells's theory of putting players in their best position to succeed, here is the what I would field on third and long: The initial look would be a 4-3. There would only be one true d-lineman on the field and no true LBers playing LB. At DE would be Pace and Taylor/Scott. At DT would be Harris and Ellis/Pryce. The "LBers" would be Cole, Wilson and Coleman. And of course, Revis and Cro at CB and Poole and Lowery at safety. I have no use for Eric Smith. This will give a quicker pass rush, much quicker short and middle field coverage with no LBers to pick on and lots of speedy options to send on blitzes. Of course the downside is, you are much weaker against a run. Who cares? I'd rather tempt the Colts to run on 3rd and long than have Manning throw the ball anyday. Even if they successfully run for 7 yards or more to pick up the first down half of the time (which I doubt), that is still better than Manning throwing the ball and completing his usual 65 to 70 % of the time. And more of those completions are going to go for 20 or more yards than a run. Whaddayathink? We should play with 15 players, this way they will be still just a yard short.. Those 3rd and longs freakin kill me.. Lets do this J E T S!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I've have been thinking about how to stop Manning. Here is what I would do on every third and long (let's say 3rd and 7 yards or more). I don't think my idea is radically different than the third and long substitution defense the Jets play, but it really emphasizes getting the most speed and pass coverage ability on the field. My scheme is born fom several observations. First, I think we can agree we have a couple of d-lineman (Pouha, DeVito) who are great at stopping the run and are pretty much non factors rushing the passer. Second, we have several LBers who are much better at rushing the passer than defending passes (Harris, Pace, Taylor). Finally, we have several young backup CBs who are fast and have been playing well lately (Cole, Wilson, Coleman). So, taking a page from Parcells's theory of putting players in their best position to succeed, here is the what I would field on third and long: The initial look would be a 4-3. There would only be one true d-lineman on the field and no true LBers playing LB. At DE would be Pace and Taylor/Scott. At DT would be Harris and Ellis/Pryce. The "LBers" would be Cole, Wilson and Coleman. And of course, Revis and Cro at CB and Poole and Lowery at safety. I have no use for Eric Smith. This will give a quicker pass rush, much quicker short and middle field coverage with no LBers to pick on and lots of speedy options to send on blitzes. Of course the downside is, you are much weaker against a run. Who cares? I'd rather tempt the Colts to run on 3rd and long than have Manning throw the ball anyday. Even if they successfully run for 7 yards or more to pick up the first down half of the time (which I doubt), that is still better than Manning throwing the ball and completing his usual 65 to 70 % of the time. And more of those completions are going to go for 20 or more yards than a run. Whaddayathink? To play Devil's Advocate, Manning would just run the draw all day on you or he'd just stand back in the pocket and wait for your lesser players (Coleman, Lowery) to get themselves beat. You have to rush the passer from somewhere and, if you blitz the DB's, they're going to get leveled by the unoccupied OL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMaynard Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 To play Devil's Advocate, Manning would just run the draw all day on you or he'd just stand back in the pocket and wait for your lesser players (Coleman, Lowery) to get themselves beat. You have to rush the passer from somewhere and, if you blitz the DB's, they're going to get leveled by the unoccupied OL. Like I said, a draw, even against a smallish defense, is not going to gain 7 or more yards as successfully as Manning does passing. And I would not send more than 5 guys rushing the passer. With the positioning of the 4 down dline-men it should be fairly easy to send the one little guy away from the unoccupied O-lineman. We have not been getting much pressure rushing 6 or sometimes even 7 guys anyway. This defense would at least have more guys, and collectively much faster guys, in coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE ILK Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Like I said, a draw, even against a smallish defense, is not going to gain 7 or more yards as successfully as Manning does passing. And I would not send more than 5 guys rushing the passer. With the positioning of the 4 down dline-men it should be fairly easy to send the one little guy away from the unoccupied O-lineman. We have not been getting much pressure rushing 6 or sometimes even 7 guys anyway. This defense would at least have more guys, and collectively much faster guys, in coverage. I like it, it would be even better if we could get pressure straight through the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I've have been thinking about how to stop Manning. Here is what I would do on every third and long (let's say 3rd and 7 yards or more). I don't think my idea is radically different than the third and long substitution defense the Jets play, but it really emphasizes getting the most speed and pass coverage ability on the field. My scheme is born fom several observations. First, I think we can agree we have a couple of d-lineman (Pouha, DeVito) who are great at stopping the run and are pretty much non factors rushing the passer. Second, we have several LBers who are much better at rushing the passer than defending passes (Harris, Pace, Taylor). Finally, we have several young backup CBs who are fast and have been playing well lately (Cole, Wilson, Coleman). So, taking a page from Parcells's theory of putting players in their best position to succeed, here is the what I would field on third and long: The initial look would be a 4-3. There would only be one true d-lineman on the field and no true LBers playing LB. At DE would be Pace and Taylor/Scott. At DT would be Harris and Ellis/Pryce. The "LBers" would be Cole, Wilson and Coleman. And of course, Revis and Cro at CB and Poole and Lowery at safety. I have no use for Eric Smith. This will give a quicker pass rush, much quicker short and middle field coverage with no LBers to pick on and lots of speedy options to send on blitzes. Of course the downside is, you are much weaker against a run. Who cares? I'd rather tempt the Colts to run on 3rd and long than have Manning throw the ball anyday. Even if they successfully run for 7 yards or more to pick up the first down half of the time (which I doubt), that is still better than Manning throwing the ball and completing his usual 65 to 70 % of the time. And more of those completions are going to go for 20 or more yards than a run. Whaddayathink? Interesting. I think if I wanted to try some type of this variation, that I'd want my normal 4-3 personel on the line. Something like Pace/Pryce/Pouha/Taylor and still use Harris as MLB. Then I'd put your safeties at the OLB position and use our extra corners at safety. Pace/Pryce/Pouha/Taylor Pool/Harris/Lowery Coleman/Wilson or Pace/Pryce/Pouha/Taylor Lowery/Harris/Coleman Wilson/Pool This way they couldnt gash us on the draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 the thing is really just to keep mixing it up. if you take the same approach against horse face, he'll kill you no matter what it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoicsentry Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Ah yes, the vaunted 2-2-7 defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoicsentry Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Well here's one thing in all seriousness - I hope Calvin Pace shows up for real like he did last game. Dbs probably are some of our best pass rushers so I would go with a heavy DB look where you can send 2 like Ighedibo and Coleman after the QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 David Harris is not a pass rusher, and would be absolutely destroyed trying to play DT even in a subpackage. Not just destroyed...wrecked... The idea is there but I think what you're looking for is something more is something like Pace/Pryce/Pouha/Ellis or Taylor/Pryce/Ellis/Pace on the line...Harris at OLB, Scott at MLB, Pool playing up to the line at S, Coleman/Wilson at NB, and Cromartie and Revis outside, and Lowery back deep...or even Smith - Scott - Pool with Revis, Cromartie, Coleman/Wilson and then Lowery as the deep safety again. I'd like to try it out and hell they probably have done something similar at some point...but the one I posted rather than hoping Harris becomes the Justin Tuck-esque talent you're portraying him as. And really...what is the Bill Parcells theory of using players to their best abilities? Bill Parcells would not look at Davis Harris and go "that's a pass rusher." Also, I'm not sure that's a theory that's just common sense...which is why Harris has never played DT in this D and never will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Ah yes, the vaunted 2-2-7 defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neckdemon Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 To play Devil's Advocate, Manning would just run the draw all day on you or he'd just stand back in the pocket and wait for your lesser players (Coleman, Lowery) to get themselves beat. You have to rush the passer from somewhere and, if you blitz the DB's, they're going to get leveled by the unoccupied OL. i say you are banned from posting anything else until that avatar is removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMaynard Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 David Harris is not a pass rusher, and would be absolutely destroyed trying to play DT even in a subpackage. Not just destroyed...wrecked... The idea is there but I think what you're looking for is something more is something like Pace/Pryce/Pouha/Ellis or Taylor/Pryce/Ellis/Pace on the line...Harris at OLB, Scott at MLB, Pool playing up to the line at S, Coleman/Wilson at NB, and Cromartie and Revis outside, and Lowery back deep...or even Smith - Scott - Pool with Revis, Cromartie, Coleman/Wilson and then Lowery as the deep safety again. I'd like to try it out and hell they probably have done something similar at some point...but the one I posted rather than hoping Harris becomes the Justin Tuck-esque talent you're portraying him as. And really...what is the Bill Parcells theory of using players to their best abilities? Bill Parcells would not look at Davis Harris and go "that's a pass rusher." Also, I'm not sure that's a theory that's just common sense...which is why Harris has never played DT in this D and never will. I am not saying Harris is a DT. I am saying Harris, Pace, Taylor can rush the passer better than Pouha, DeVito. And as far as poor little Harris being destroyed by an o-lineman, he holds his own against them pretty well on run defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMaynard Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 Interesting. I think if I wanted to try some type of this variation, that I'd want my normal 4-3 personel on the line. Something like Pace/Pryce/Pouha/Taylor and still use Harris as MLB. Then I'd put your safeties at the OLB position and use our extra corners at safety. Pace/Pryce/Pouha/Taylor Pool/Harris/Lowery Coleman/Wilson or Pace/Pryce/Pouha/Taylor Lowery/Harris/Coleman Wilson/Pool This way they couldnt gash us on the draw. I like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 On some plays they should use a 2-9 defense. I'd stll keep the LBs in there, maybe put in Ihedigbo instead of Brian Thomas etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Ah yes, the vaunted 2-2-7 defense. I remember it. Marla Gibbs used to use it against Jackée with intermittent success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I am not saying Harris is a DT. I am saying Harris, Pace, Taylor can rush the passer better than Pouha, DeVito. And as far as poor little Harris being destroyed by an o-lineman, he holds his own against them pretty well on run defense. Yes...as an ILB...with DeVito, Pouha, and Scott in front of him. Harris at DT would get wrecked, and it's a poor gimmick at best to try him there. This is especially true since he's not actually a pass rusher or one of our best 3 pass rushers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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