Transformers Mafia

[Integrity28]

The way I read it, Pac started the metagaming in general, but in 2 posts of your own you state that I was apprehensive in the scum thread towards the end of the Predatard game, which I wasn't. However I was a bit apprehensive day 1...in the scum thread, and I suppose it showed a bit in the game thread as CTM seemed to notice, which is funny b/c I, in fact, had a feeling he was on to me during that time, funny I was right.

I was only clarifying as point as I orginally stated that Pac was doing was metagaming about my play early on in the Predatard game. However he was only referring to my play in general and then you compounded that by agreeing with him, er, however you kept mentioning it as if I was doing so towards the end, which i certainly was not. Semantics I suppose. My point was, for this games purposes, I read it wrong, at first view and just wanted to clarify my mistake, that it wasn't Pac but you speaking on behalf of my play end game. i.e. So I wouldn't have to hear Pac complain I was making sh*t up and mis-quoting.

Ah, I understand. Maybe "towards the end" for me, was not quite "end game" for you guys? I dunno. Since DPRs "now you guys all attack each other" plan effed up, and I died. Anyway, I just wanted it to be clear, I actually don't like all the metagaming that has been introduced - largely because unlike many of these no-life dooshes, I don't retain this crap in full detail. If I mis-spoke or remembered wrong I apologize.

Like I said, I don't like Pac's predatard case as a reason for voting you.

[AVM]

I'm catching up and writing a little synopsis of my thoughts and reasoning right now, if anyones watching and waiting for me to chime in.

[JustInFudge]

Will everyone shut the **** up with this metagame crap and vote that slime ball Brett.

Its time.

[JustInFudge]

I'm catching up and writing a little synopsis of my thoughts and reasoning right now, if anyones watching and waiting for me to chime in.

CANT WAIT!!!

[Pac]

Will everyone shut the **** up with this metagame crap and vote that slime ball Brett.

Its time.

metagaming is all the rage - you didn't hear?

personally I think it's a weak mans lament when trying to justify the indefensible.

[HessStation]

Will everyone shut the **** up with this metagame crap and vote that slime ball Brett.

Its time.

metagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemetagamemeta

VOTE: Brett

[Lily]

It's almost time for me to head out. I'll be back sometime after the doc, and my other plans. Probably around 8ish. (That's MST)

[HessStation]

It's almost time for me to head out. I'll be back sometime after the doc, and my other plans. Probably around 8ish. (That's MST)

Don't let the sun catch you crying.

[AVM]

Last night, I went through and checked AVM's posts. There really isn't a lot there of substance, but that's not a criticism, necessarily. How can I criticize for that?

However, this struck me as interesting, Not huge but interesting, at least to me.

AVM, if that was your reason for voting me, I'm talking now. Why is your vote still there? Is there something else you have concerns over?

Indeed you have, love. unvote

Namely because yes, you are talking, and secondly because there are far more pressing matters at hand right now. So here goes.

I want to go ahead and make sure no one thinks it was an "OMG I HATE THIS GUY U GUYZ SUK! I QUIT" rage crap. It wasn't a meltdown or anything stupid. Honestly, I think the smartest play right now is either to go with myself, Hess, or Brett. I still don't buy that Pac is scum, but I've been wrong many times before (and, theoretically speaking, if I were to be lynched and found town, be reminded that doesn't mean I was right about ANYTHING).

Take notice at everyone who reacted to my vote for me "dare," or rather, in some cases the people who didn't. One of the oddest players by many people admission, BG, came in and waffled again. Admittedly jumping to yet another train and even making a slight joke about it, in the kind of way that if I was scum, I'd do. BG worries me a lot right now. Brett also seems really opportunistic, but at the same time he did think he had a case on me in the first place, though it was extremely weak (even if I were to be scum). Say what you want but I'm sticking to what I believe (that Pac isn't scum), and not going to put a vote there. That's how we got here in the first place. Brett is a really smart player as we saw towards the end of the season last year, and his play is rather erratic.

I also don't like how Fire and Ice is playing (didn't finally vote for someone until asked to, for example), but she is new and I suppose we "started off on a bad foot" or what not. But that's definitely not a problem to look at today either, because she's possibly just adjusting to the new site. I just have a probably with these vets from other sites getting passes like they're new to the game as well.

Some of the others to stick out are the ones that wrote it off as nothing, though I'm admittedly not sure what to make of that. Fact is, it'd be foolish for no scum whatsoever to jump on me, but even more foolish for more than one to at this point. I put myself out there and was EXTREMELY easy, but a smart scum team would let the town jump on me for the most part, then scatter themselves around the middle up til the end of my lynch train. I really don't have a good read on Crusher whatsoever at this point, but he's generally your anti-CTM/Pac. As easy as they are to get lynched on day 1, he's just as hard (has no bearing on this game, just stating my opinion).

As for why I went after Lily? Everyone says I'm playing different and they way in which I carry out my playing style is VERY different this game, but I'm doing the same thing I do game after game. Target inactives. The most success I've had playing this game has been going after those quiet players on day 1 and getting them to talk. Just ask Sharrow, who I go after practically every game by the beginning of day 2.

If I had to take a shot right now, I'm going BG. Like I said, I don't feel great about Pac, and I'm not going to vote for myself obviously.

My top 3 right now (again, excluding Fire and Ice until I get a little more information I suppose):

BG (who currently doesn't have a train at all on him, so that'll offer me up to the I'm trying to distract people idea again)

Brett (who only has one, though I feel like we could get some steam in that direction)

Hess (who I feel least confident about of the 3, but better than Pac)

I've got a couple of "cases" I suppose you'd call them I'm working on, but I don't feel like they're ready quite yet to be honest. If you guys decide to come in my direction I'll share whatever I've got before a lynch vote.

I'm going to vote: Brett, though I'm willing to go in any of those 3 directions right now.

[Vicious89x]

Official Vote count:

Pac (4)- Verbal, Wombat, I28, Brett

Lily (1)- Jetscode

Hess (4)- Slats, Pac, CTM, Icemann

AVM (3)- BG, Lily, Crusher

Brett (3)- JiF, Hess, AVM

With 16 players, it takes 9 to lynch

[AVM]

Well, now Brett has 2 (3 counting me), he had only JiF on him while I was typing that up.

CANT WAIT!!!

I <3 you.

[HessStation]

Dude I already explained it's almost impossible for you to defend and decided to take my vote to AVM. For early day 1 your change in play stood out the most, now we are farther into it AVM and to a point Brett seem to be better choices. Im still 100% into throwing snow covered batteris at PAC though.

Phew. I changed my avatar saying thing just for you.

[Verbal]

Incidentally what information will my coroner report show you other than you've lynched an innocent? At this point remaining scum might be hesitant to oust me because they know damn well they're going to look shady when I flip clean.

I thought Bretts vote was a good place to stop as by that point there was certainly at least 1 scum on there. Going from memory the trend always seems to scum lobbing an early and/or middle vote on day 1 as they'd rather not shine the light on themselves too much.

This is a very good point, and perhaps attention should be paid to those who have moved off you for 'greener pastures'. I'm multi-quoting here, so I might become a hypocrite soon as I saw something that almost made me want to vote for them right then. Stay tuned.

I don't like all the metagaming that is going on. The defense for Pac is metagaming, and the cases on Hess and AVM are metagaming. There has also been some metagaming surrounding Lily. Can you guys make some actual cases?

Aaaaaand this was the post. Wombat, what Lily says below is very true. Your suspicions didn't strike me as actual cases. Besides, you've barely posted, and that's a lot coming from me. Huge FOS on you for asked others to do the work for you. Do you plan on hopping on the first train you deduce to be a "real" case?

Oh, and Wombat, feel free to make a case of your own. We won't mind, you know.

^This. See above.

Conclusion: I'm staying on Pac. Sticking to my guns.

[Verbal]

dm doesn't like them cause it's easy to manipulate..

This is true. I know a small handful of players who have enough control to change up styles and make metagaming work for them instead of against them. Not easy, but possible. And as those players are on DM (not all currently playing, though).....yes, we don't really use it much.

well from what I've noticed the majority of us are far too entrenched in our "styles" to switch up on a game by game basis. We don't play year round or multiple games simultaneously so I haven't noticed many "mixing it up" very often.

This is also true. Because of the nature of the timing here, it would be even more obvious if your style suddenly switched a little. On DM, subtle switches can go unnoticed for games on end.

[The Crusher]

Phew. I changed my avatar saying thing just for you.

I do have a handsome rack.

[HessStation]

There are at least some scum who jumped on AVM fast after his 'vote for me' rant.

[WWWWombat]

I think I am being active enough, especially given how useless most of this discussion is to me. What am I supposed to do when everyone is metagaming and I've only played 2 games with most of these people?

[AVM]

There are at least some scum who jumped on AVM fast after his 'vote for me' rant.

Don't be foolish enough to think there are many. I'd be willing to bet there's one, but it would be foolish for more. MAYBE two if they felt safe enough, because even Crusher alluded to the fact that it came off as "HEY KILL ME"

[AVM]

I think I am being active enough, especially given how useless most of this discussion is to me. What am I supposed to do when everyone is metagaming and I've only played 2 games with most of these people?

I know this will come off as me being a sarcastic a******, but the best you can. You didn't have a ton at the end last year (I think I may have only played one with you), and in all honesty I feel like we have multiple people changing up their game style (which I think is what you guys are referring to as metagaming). It's difficult for most anyone.

[Integrity28]

I think I am being active enough, especially given how useless most of this discussion is to me. What am I supposed to do when everyone is metagaming and I've only played 2 games with most of these people?

Well, you can start by calling Pac a ******* doosh.

[HessStation]

Don't be foolish enough to think there are many. I'd be willing to bet there's one, but it would be foolish for more. MAYBE two if they felt safe enough, because even Crusher alluded to the fact that it came off as "HEY KILL ME"

It was blood in water. I would guess it was more than one. Interesting you seemed quick to jump and defend.

[AVM]

It was blood in water. I would guess it was more than one. Interesting you seemed quick to jump and defend.

You've played scum just about as many times as I have. That's common sense, to me. It's also something I said in that novel I wrote. Scum won't have 2 or 3 on a train of 4, it's too condemning if I turn out to be a power roll.

[The Crusher]

This is true. I know a small handful of players who have enough control to change up styles and make metagaming work for them instead of against them. Not easy, but possible. And as those players are on DM (not all currently playing, though).....yes, we don't really use it much.

This is also true. Because of the nature of the timing here, it would be even more obvious if your style suddenly switched a little. On DM, subtle switches can go unnoticed for games on end.

On Dm blah blah blah blah. This all sounds like bullsh*t smoke screen crap the mafia is using to get the Town off purpose.

We go from scum hunting to discussing game mechanics? ******* Really? nothing suspicous their.

Brett or AVM or Hess this is the question. Pac get a pass cause everyone finally agreed his case was all about metagaming blah blah blah. pac is a caustic asswipe. Don;t need big words to describe him.

I like AVM's post makes pretty good sense. Fair enough. my only point was your VOTE ME I DONT CARE... that bothered me.

I have a hard time looking at the case on Brett cause any case started by JiF on Brett makes me worry as much as being envited to my anorexic cousin skinny's house for thanksgiving. I love her but the food at her house sucks because the skinny BITCH has a problem with food

Im going to unvote AVM because his explanation of the only thing I found guilty about him made sense. Could be a play, really bnot enough pressure to think he was losing it so ok with him for now.

Hess likes my t!ts and honestly can;t blame him. Truth is he has really done nothing to convince anyone of anything except make a couple jokes act a little less normal and his longest post is about what? Gee metagaming. He just hides his head in the sand joins in the metagaming talk and walla pressure off. nice.

AVM did well diffusing me for now.

Everyone who voted for Pac interest me.

unvote

So to me the choices are vote Brett cause Jif says so and the case on Brett is still kinda tuff for me but at the same time I will go back and look.

or Vote Hess and I think this would tell us a lot either way.

Can't imagine steam building up on anyone else. Though we still have alot of time until Vic's dealine.

[CTM]

hess we've been down this path before.. i applaud avm for trying it again (assuming he is innocent).. but last year we had several people do similiar and nab a handful of scum, I just can't imagine that many of them took the bait this time, I'm sure there was all kinds of it's a trap warnings going on in the scum threads, and lets see what the town does. Which is why i wanted to vote him right away..

Assuming avm is innocent, I did similiar things earlier in the game and didn't really "catch" anyone..

but one guy did vote for both of us, BG, meangin 2 times he is taking the easy way vote on day 1. Seems odd..

not sure what to make of it, but now that Hess is participating, i'll see where BG leads

unvote

vote BG

[The Crusher]

Don't be foolish enough to think there are many. I'd be willing to bet there's one, but it would be foolish for more. MAYBE two if they felt safe enough, because even Crusher alluded to the fact that it came off as "HEY KILL ME"

Dude you said it like to two or three different people. Was early in the game stood out.

[CTM]

You've played scum just about as many times as I have. That's common sense, to me. It's also something I said in that novel I wrote. Scum won't have 2 or 3 on a train of 4, it's too condemning if I turn out to be a power roll.

they did though.. last year when me and smc offered to kill each other in succession.. at one point 4 of the 5 voters were scum...

also jif with the batman stuff.. 2 or 3 of his voters were scum..

I don't think these tricks will work in the same ways as before.. definitely not as effectively.. if there was scum on your train.. it was 1.. I'd bet

[Vicious89x]

You've played scum just about as many times as I have. That's common sense, to me. It's also something I said in that novel I wrote. Scum won't have 2 or 3 on a train of 4, it's too condemning if I turn out to be a power roll.

MOD NOTE: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUSSSSSSSSSSIIIIIIIIIOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

[HessStation]

You've played scum just about as many times as I have. That's common sense, to me. It's also something I said in that novel I wrote. Scum won't have 2 or 3 on a train of 4, it's too condemning if I turn out to be a power roll.

Understood. But it depends on the scum team (mix of JN and DM etc) and how much they are/were interacting at that point. But yeah I think at least 1 for sure, very possibly 2 imo. And maybe not saying a vote for sure but more than one would have been pushing the subject. Unless your actually scum. Are you scum?

[The Crusher]

hess we've been down this path before.. i applaud avm for trying it again (assuming he is innocent).. but last year we had several people do similiar and nab a handful of scum, I just can't imagine that many of them took the bait this time, I'm sure there was all kinds of it's a trap warnings going on in the scum threads, and lets see what the town does. Which is why i wanted to vote him right away..

Assuming avm is innocent, I did similiar things earlier in the game and didn't really "catch" anyone..

but one guy did vote for both of us, BG, meangin 2 times he is taking the easy way vote on day 1. Seems odd..

not sure what to make of it, but now that Hess is participating, i'll see where BG leads

unvote

vote BG

Have you NOT voted for anyone mentioned yet this game?

[AVM]

Dude you said it like to two or three different people. Was early in the game stood out.

No no dude, I agree. By saying that I meant I pretty much said kill me...so people are going to jump on. We don't disagree on that point whatsoever. It's why I've written off you and Lily, at least for the moment.

[CTM]

Have you NOT voted for anyone mentioned yet this game?

bout half the game..

sorry.. pac defended well, hess is back active, never was really voting avm (just seeing what happenned).. haven't voted brett yet.. i voted ape first cause I like to. SO only 4 or 5 people or so..

I dunno, i just think it's interesting that BG took two lazy votes on day 1..

1) right after I voted pac for no other reason then admitted bandwagoning

2) for avm after he asked to be lynched..

[Vicious89x]

Official Vote count:

BG (1)- CTM

Pac (4)- Verbal, Wombat, I28, Brett

Lily (1)- Jetscode

Hess (3)- Slats, Pac, Icemann

AVM (2)- BG, Lily

Brett (3)- JiF, Hess, AVM

With 16 players, it takes 9 to lynch

[Bleedin Green]

I find it interesting how any mention of me as scummy by anyone in this game has been nothing but vague, wishy-washy ramblings. No real basis for anything, and zero citing of any type of support for these "feelings". It's pretty much why I haven't said much about it to this point, because there's really nothing for me to respond to. Frankly, I think AVM's entire response is nothing but complete horsecrap, and only makes me feel better about my vote. All he wrote was one long, drawn-out explanation about how his absurd play was really some brilliant trap set by him. Even if AVM isn't scum, all these things ever typically do is help us pick off a list of innocents with no real basis outside of some ridiculously flawed "gotcha" moment. As if there's no way town could possibly be voting him for his horrible play. The reason I voted for AVM is simple, he was playing a very peculiar game, and then it reeked as if he was trying to pull the "I dare you" card which has had a remarkable ability to bring trains to a screeching halt in many of our mafia games. The fact that he stuck with it for multiple posts, and had no interest in addressing it or anything else until just now after laying low didn't do the trick, says to me it was no misunderstanding.

As I said before, the one other person I was fine with moving onto was brett if the day started to flow in that direction, but AVM going there while already making excuses about how he's not his favorite vote in order to cover his a$$, it certainly makes me hesitate. So I see no reason to change my vote at this point.

[AVM]

they did though.. last year when me and smc offered to kill each other in succession.. at one point 4 of the 5 voters were scum...

also jif with the batman stuff.. 2 or 3 of his voters were scum..

I don't think these tricks will work in the same ways as before.. definitely not as effectively.. if there was scum on your train.. it was 1.. I'd bet

Fair enough, I'm just going off my experience I suppose

MOD NOTE: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUSSSSSSSSSSIIIIIIIIIOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

And no Hess, I am not scum

[The Crusher]

I find it interesting how any mention of me as scummy by anyone in this game has been nothing but vague, wishy-washy ramblings. No real basis for anything, and zero citing of any type of support for these "feelings". It's pretty much why I haven't said much about it to this point, because there's really nothing for me to respond to. Frankly, I think AVM's entire response is nothing but complete horsecrap, and only makes me feel better about my vote. All he wrote was one long, drawn-out explanation about how his absurd play was really some brilliant trap set by him. Even if AVM isn't scum, all these things ever typically do is help us pick off a list of innocents with no real basis outside of some ridiculously flawed "gotcha" moment. As if there's no way town could possibly be voting him for his horrible play. The reason I voted for AVM is simple, he was playing a very peculiar game, and then it reeked as if he was trying to pull the "I dare you" card which has had a remarkable ability to bring trains to a screeching halt in many of our mafia games. The fact that he stuck with it for multiple posts, and had no interest in addressing it or anything else until just now after laying low didn't do the trick, says to me it was no misunderstanding.

As I said before, the one other person I was fine with moving onto was brett if the day started to flow in that direction, but AVM going there while already making excuses about how he's not his favorite vote in order to cover his a$$, it certainly makes me hesitate. So I see no reason to change my vote at this point.

Good point. but what train was he trying to halt by doing it?