109 replies to this topic

[billo83]

That really cannot happen. We need MCElroy or Stanton or free ageny, draftee or tradee QB X here.

 

I'm with Sperm; there's no point to Sanchez. Get rid of him sooner rather than later and while 2013 will still suck(a given) at least you open up big cap room in 2014.

 

Idzik will pay lip service to the idea of ning in 2013 because that's the job. Wrecks will play along because whether he pulls an unlikely great season in 2013 and secures a Jets HC contract for 2014  or the team screws the pooch and he's looking for hisn ext DC gig next January, he has a reputation to maintain.We're going to be told this is a young team filled with young guys with promise learning on the job. It may even be true. That we can hope for.

 

What makes you think McSack is an NFL QB? If you think Sanchez is worthless, you don't replace him with someone just as worthless.

 

I could see maybe bringing Moore in, but any decent FA/Trade will cost too much in cap or compensation. Best route is to draft one or two this year and take a flyer on a UFA or two. Then let them battle it out in camp. If this is going to be a sucky season like you say, why not see if you can find the next Wilson.  

 

Saying it's going to be a sucky losing season is just another reason for keeping Sanchez another year. He's your stop gap while your draft picks learn the game, if he gets injured you don't care, and if he really sucks again who cares since it's just going to be a losing season anyway. You get something out of that 8.5 mil and maybe lightning will strikes and the light bulb goes on for Sanchez.

[Sperm Edwards]

And it's a much bigger cap hit than 8.5 if they cut him this year, no?

 

If it's going to cost me at least 8.5 million now matter what, I'd rather see what I  can get out of him. He's at rock bottom right now, so there's nowhere to go but up. Maybe with a new QB coach coach (Cavanuagh was worthless) and OC, and some decent receivers, juts maybe you'll get something out of him. Last season he was crippled with JV receivers, no protection, his favorite target and safety valve out for half the season, and an absolute moron calling the plays.

 

Now I'm not making excuses for Sanchez, nor am I a big of his. But given the circumstances of last season, I can't see him doing any worse and more that likely play better. So since it's already costing you a bundle, why not see what you can get out of him. I'd rather bring in legit competition and let Sanchez try to win the job. I'd rather see Sanchez on the roster than McSack given that it's costing 9 mil no matter what.

 

Yes, there is intense hatred of Sanchez, a lot of justified. However, I think a lot of the hatred is because of the riduculous salary he gets. I could tell from your comment that burns you. Well, blame Tanny 100% on that one. Is Sanchez supossed to turn that down, and say he's got to earn it first? Would you do that?

 

The difference is this year is already known to have no SB shot.  So there's no point in spreading the suck into a 2nd or 3rd year.  If there is legit competition, Sanchez loses the job.  If Sanchez wins the job, it wasn't legit competition.

 

There is no fixing him.  He isn't talented enough from the neck up, nor is his arm accurate enough, to be a good NFL QB.  This will not change.  You can't un-stupid him no matter who he's surrounded with.  

 

Do you seriously think we are superbowl contenders this year? There are stop-gap players or outright holes at half our starting positions.

 

• We have no starting QB. Sanchez does not count.  There are no good FA QBs and if there were any we couldn't afford them anyway.  And it's supposed to be this terrible pool of QB talent.  Doesn't mean none will be good, but the likelihood of any being average or better as rookies seems pretty slim.
• Neither of our 2 RBs seem to have any "it" factor.  I'm ok with that, but only if we have a serious passing game, which we don't.
• 1 starting WR may not even play and is a notorious douche.  The other starter can't catch or run routes, fast as he is.  Our slot receiver is pretty good.
• Our starting TE (Cumberland) is a backup TE.
• Our LT and C positions are set.  We're going to bring Howard back because he's a RFA and cheap, but not because he's so awesome.  As of today our 2 guards are Ducasse and I guess Schlauderaff - two backup/stopgap guys - until the draft.  They're both backups.
• Now even with that we might be able to get by if we had a really good QB.  But we don't.
• We have no starting OLBers except backup players starting due to lack of talent and money.  Presumably we'll draft one this year, but the other is going to be McEntyre or Sapp or someone similar.
• One of our starting ILBers is the NFL's most overpaid player this side of Mark Sanchez, and runs like a pregnant hippo expecting quintuplets.  The other is fast and would seem to look the part, but he hardly wowed as a rookie.
• We potentially have 2 great CBs. One of whom needs a big new contract extension right now - which will eat up some more of the minuscule cap space we have - or we'll have to trade him before the season.  The other is very good but had a great season in '12.  The next guy on the bubble is only good when the throw is off the mark or the receiver drops the pass and stinks otherwise.
• We have no starting safeties.  Josh Bush may be ok but he's never started.  
• Oh yeah, and the depth behind these guys is non-existent.  

The roster is in deep sh*t, we don't have the cap room to noticeably improve it, so we're not winning sh*t.  I'd like to not f*ck up 2014+ as much as possible.

[unbanmadmike1]

Holmes is talented, but--next to Sanchez--he's the guy who really destroyed the team for Rex. Not holding him--or Sanchez--accountable for screwing the team, particularly after last season's Philly game, turned the locker room. Sanchez exposed Tannenbaum, but Holmes is the one who exposed Rex.

this whole idea that Holmes destroyed the team is garbage. The only thing that destroyed the jets was not having any good players and the worst QB in the NFL. A wr can't destroy a team even if he wanted to.

[unbanmadmike1]

Sanchez is going to win the starting job.

if he does there wasn't a true competition.

[Maxman]

if he does there wasn't a true competition.

 

The difference is this year is already known to have no SB shot.  So there's no point in spreading the suck into a 2nd or 3rd year.  If there is legit competition, Sanchez loses the job.  If Sanchez wins the job, it wasn't legit competition.

 

There is no fixing him.  He isn't talented enough from the neck up, nor is his arm accurate enough, to be a good NFL QB.  This will not change.  You can't un-stupid him no matter who he's surrounded with.  

 

Do you seriously think we are superbowl contenders this year? There are stop-gap players or outright holes at half our starting positions.

 

• We have no starting QB. Sanchez does not count.  There are no good FA QBs and if there were any we couldn't afford them anyway.  And it's supposed to be this terrible pool of QB talent.  Doesn't mean none will be good, but the likelihood of any being average or better as rookies seems pretty slim.
• Neither of our 2 RBs seem to have any "it" factor.  I'm ok with that, but only if we have a serious passing game, which we don't.
• 1 starting WR may not even play and is a notorious douche.  The other starter can't catch or run routes, fast as he is.  Our slot receiver is pretty good.
• Our starting TE (Cumberland) is a backup TE.
• Our LT and C positions are set.  We're going to bring Howard back because he's a RFA and cheap, but not because he's so awesome.  As of today our 2 guards are Ducasse and I guess Schlauderaff - two backup/stopgap guys - until the draft.  They're both backups.
• Now even with that we might be able to get by if we had a really good QB.  But we don't.
• We have no starting OLBers except backup players starting due to lack of talent and money.  Presumably we'll draft one this year, but the other is going to be McEntyre or Sapp or someone similar.
• One of our starting ILBers is the NFL's most overpaid player this side of Mark Sanchez, and runs like a pregnant hippo expecting quintuplets.  The other is fast and would seem to look the part, but he hardly wowed as a rookie.
• We potentially have 2 great CBs. One of whom needs a big new contract extension right now - which will eat up some more of the minuscule cap space we have - or we'll have to trade him before the season.  The other is very good but had a great season in '12.  The next guy on the bubble is only good when the throw is off the mark or the receiver drops the pass and stinks otherwise.
• We have no starting safeties.  Josh Bush may be ok but he's never started.  
• Oh yeah, and the depth behind these guys is non-existent.  

The roster is in deep sh*t, we don't have the cap room to noticeably improve it, so we're not winning sh*t.  I'd like to not f*ck up 2014+ as much as possible.

 

It will be interesting to see if Marty agrees.  Some QBs have gotten better with time.  Rich Gannon jumps to mind. 

[Bugg]

What makes you think McSack is an NFL QB? If you think Sanchez is worthless, you don't replace him with someone just as worthless.

 

I could see maybe bringing Moore in, but any decent FA/Trade will cost too much in cap or compensation. Best route is to draft one or two this year and take a flyer on a UFA or two. Then let them battle it out in camp. If this is going to be a sucky season like you say, why not see if you can find the next Wilson.  

 

Saying it's going to be a sucky losing season is just another reason for keeping Sanchez another year. He's your stop gap while your draft picks learn the game, if he gets injured you don't care, and if he really sucks again who cares since it's just going to be a losing season anyway. You get something out of that 8.5 mil and maybe lightning will strikes and the light bulb goes on for Sanchez.

To echo Sperm-keeping Sanchez this year has a cost in 2014. Cuyt him now and you free up more cap room. If this is a 4-12/6-10 team, there's no point to overpaying Nacho sh*tbox one penny more.

 

To clarify-I don't hate him as a person, but with the money he is making at this piss poor level of production he's harming this franchise. Whether he is here or not the QB slot is going to be difficult. But perhaps you could audtion someone for 2014 now  and get an idea what QB X can do. Sanchez is not going to be here in 2014.

[bmd71]

What are the cap ramifications in 2014 if we cut Sanchez now as opposed to keeping him for this season?

[kelly]

Mark Sanchez sucks. The jets should cut him now and stopw asting their time. As a free agent he might not get an offer above NFL minimum to be msot teams' 3rd QB.

 

If the head caoch doesn't understand that,whatever he says to the press, it's past time to send him packing.

 

Also,after watching Wrecks's offenses have pussy offensive game plans week after week, who gives a sheet what he thinks about any QB. He needs to go get that DC position somewhere else. it's all he's good at. See ya, toesucker.

[TechJet]

Rex Ryan will never give Tebow a chance at QB the dude's much better off else where, leave the Ringling Bros "JETS circus behind and

get his career going again. Rex Ryan is a freaking JOKER!  

[SenorGato]

I might agree with the whole "dump Sanchez" thing if the whole thing wasn't built around "the Jets should tank 2013." Worse is that its not even written as a suggestion, but rather the known outcome (Jets arent winning in 2013). Jet fans and Cubs fans would get along entirely too well.

[dbatesman]

I might agree with the whole "dump Sanchez" thing if the whole thing wasn't built around "the Jets should tank 2013." Worse is that its not even written as a suggestion, but rather the known outcome (Jets arent winning in 2013). Jet fans and Cubs fans would get along entirely too well.

 

When the Jets and Cubs both make the playoffs this year, boy, will our faces be red.

[T0mShane]

When the Jets and Cubs both make the playoffs this year, boy, will our faces be red.

Power down some Acapulco Gold through a vaporizer and it all becomes possible.

[Larz]

i just hope they bring it minimum 4 guys to compete at camp

 

and that tebow and mcelsack are not invited

[billo83]

The difference is this year is already known to have no SB shot.  So there's no point in spreading the suck into a 2nd or 3rd year.  If there is legit competition, Sanchez loses the job.  If Sanchez wins the job, it wasn't legit competition.

 

There is no fixing him.  He isn't talented enough from the neck up, nor is his arm accurate enough, to be a good NFL QB.  This will not change.  You can't un-stupid him no matter who he's surrounded with.  

 

Do you seriously think we are superbowl contenders this year? There are stop-gap players or outright holes at half our starting positions.

 

• We have no starting QB. Sanchez does not count.  There are no good FA QBs and if there were any we couldn't afford them anyway.  And it's supposed to be this terrible pool of QB talent.  Doesn't mean none will be good, but the likelihood of any being average or better as rookies seems pretty slim.
• Neither of our 2 RBs seem to have any "it" factor.  I'm ok with that, but only if we have a serious passing game, which we don't.
• 1 starting WR may not even play and is a notorious douche.  The other starter can't catch or run routes, fast as he is.  Our slot receiver is pretty good.
• Our starting TE (Cumberland) is a backup TE.
• Our LT and C positions are set.  We're going to bring Howard back because he's a RFA and cheap, but not because he's so awesome.  As of today our 2 guards are Ducasse and I guess Schlauderaff - two backup/stopgap guys - until the draft.  They're both backups.
• Now even with that we might be able to get by if we had a really good QB.  But we don't.
• We have no starting OLBers except backup players starting due to lack of talent and money.  Presumably we'll draft one this year, but the other is going to be McEntyre or Sapp or someone similar.
• One of our starting ILBers is the NFL's most overpaid player this side of Mark Sanchez, and runs like a pregnant hippo expecting quintuplets.  The other is fast and would seem to look the part, but he hardly wowed as a rookie.
• We potentially have 2 great CBs. One of whom needs a big new contract extension right now - which will eat up some more of the minuscule cap space we have - or we'll have to trade him before the season.  The other is very good but had a great season in '12.  The next guy on the bubble is only good when the throw is off the mark or the receiver drops the pass and stinks otherwise.
• We have no starting safeties.  Josh Bush may be ok but he's never started.  
• Oh yeah, and the depth behind these guys is non-existent.  

The roster is in deep sh*t, we don't have the cap room to noticeably improve it, so we're not winning sh*t.  I'd like to not f*ck up 2014+ as much as possible.

 

Where did I ever say the Jets are going to be SB contenders are even inferred it? I have stated that it doesn't make sense to cut a guy when he is going to cost you 8.5 no matter what. and you might as well gamble on him to see if he turns the corner and get whatever you can out of him. That has nothing to do with being SB contenders so most of your rant has nothing to do with what I have been posting?

 

That being said, I find it funny that you KNOW for a fact that the Jets won't be SB contenders and that they will suck. I would have bet my last cent that the 1-15 Dolphins would only win 4-6 games the next season but they won the division on the heels of noodle arm Pennington. In other words, anything is possible in the NFL from one season to the next.

 

You also make a lot of assumptions about the roster, and Idz hasn't even had a chance to make his imprint on it yet. Lets wait until after the draft to even start talking about the roster for next season. It may be as bad as you say, vastly improved, or more than likely somewhere in between. 

 

I also find it interesting that you find no correlation between the severe drop off in offensive talent the last 2 seasons and the plunge Sanchez has taken. I'm not saying that Sanchez will be a great player with better talent around him, but certainly better than he has been.

 

A couple of things on the cap: from what I have read, Idz is very good with the cap and related matters. Don't you think that Idz can get that straightened out without cutting Sanchez right now? I certainly want to give him the chance to. IIRC, we didn't even spend to the cap limit last year leaving 2-3 million on the table. That's half the 2014 Sanchez charge you are up in arms about. Certainly a more compentent capologist would not leave 2-3 mil on the table and can manage Sanchez hit on 2014.

 

You also assume that Sanchez will be gone in 2014, but we have no idea what Idz is going to do. He may keep him for 2014 while grooming  a draft pick to take over in 2015. We just don't know his thinking at this point.

 

Also, Idz is going to want to field a competitive team. I don't think most GM's go into a season wanting to tank it. That's a losing mentality and can fester in the locker room.

 

At any rate, if Idz agreed with you, it most likely would have been done already. He probably believes he can get the cap straightened out without cutting Sanchez and absorbing 8.5 for absolutely nothing.

 

I really believe the intense hatred of Sanchez is driving a lot of this. I don't really blame you as I have had simiar feeling of Jets players in the past. But I just can't see cutting him now.

Edited by billo83, 23 February 2013 - 01:38 PM.

[T0mShane]

Idz?

[billo83]

To echo Sperm-keeping Sanchez this year has a cost in 2014. Cuyt him now and you free up more cap room. If this is a 4-12/6-10 team, there's no point to overpaying Nacho sh*tbox one penny more.

 

To clarify-I don't hate him as a person, but with the money he is making at this piss poor level of production he's harming this franchise. Whether he is here or not the QB slot is going to be difficult. But perhaps you could audtion someone for 2014 now  and get an idea what QB X can do. Sanchez is not going to be here in 2014.

 

I just posted about how a compentent capologist should be able to handle the 2014 charge and minimize the effect. IMO this isn't going to be a 4-6 win team. Rex's D alone should get you 5-6 wins. We had zero offense this year with a rash of injuires, 2 incompenent coaches in Cavanaugh and Sporano, a starting RT with very little experience, Sanchez worst season as a pro, and ultimateli a JV level WR corps. There really is nowhere to go but up on offense. I like the Marty hiring and he is a proven OC. I also have faith that Idz will improve the roster on O depsite the cap situation.

 

I didn't mean to infer that anyone hates Sanchez personally. I realize a big part of that is the stupid contract Tanny gave him, and can cause great anger. I hated O'brien his last few years and wanted him gone much sooner than they got rid of him, but the cap situation of course was different then.

 

As far as new QB's go, I'm in the camp of letting them learn for a season ot two before throwing them into the fire. If Sanchez is bad as you say, at least they can learn from his mistakes.

[billo83]

Idz?

Idzik, your future whipping boy. Sorry I hate to type, so I shorthand as much as possible. J.I.may have been confused with Jets Insider.

[Sperm Edwards]

Where did I ever say the Jets are going to be SB contenders are even inferred it? I have stated that it doesn't make sense to cut a guy when he is going to cost you 8.5 no matter what. and you might as well gamble on him to see if he turns the corner and get whatever you can out of him. That has nothing to do with being SB contenders so most of your rant has nothing to do with what I have been posting?

 

That being said, I find it funny that you KNOW for a fact that the Jets won't be SB contenders and that they will suck. I would have bet my last cent that the 1-15 Dolphins would only win 4-6 games the next season but they won the division on the heels of noodle arm Pennington. In other words, anything is possible in the NFL from one season to the next.

 

You also make a lot of assumptions about the roster, and Idz hasn't even had a chance to make his imprint on it yet. Lets wait until after the draft to even start talking about the roster for next season. It may be as bad as you say, vastly improved, or more than likely somewhere in between. 

 

I also find it interesting that you find no correlation between the severe drop off in offensive talent the last 2 seasons and the plunge Sanchez has taken. I'm not saying that Sanchez will be a great player with better talent around him, but certainly better than he has been.

 

A couple of things on the cap: from what I have read, Idz is very good with the cap and related matters. Don't you think that Idz can get that straightened out without cutting Sanchez right now? I certainly want to give him the chance to. IIRC, we didn't even spend to the cap limit last year leaving 2-3 million on the table. That's half the 2014 Sanchez charge you are up in arms about. Certainly a more compentent capologist would not leave 2-3 mil on the table and can manage Sanchez hit on 2014.

 

You also assume that Sanchez will be gone in 2014, but we have no idea what Idz is going to do. He may keep him for 2014 while grooming  a draft pick to take over in 2015. We just don't know his thinking at this point.

 

Also, Idz is going to want to field a competitive team. I don't think most GM's go into a season wanting to tank it. That's a losing mentality and can fester in the locker room.

 

At any rate, if Idz agreed with you, it most likely would have been done already. He probably believes he can get the cap straightened out without cutting Sanchez and absorbing 8.5 for absolutely nothing.

 

I really believe the intense hatred of Sanchez is driving a lot of this. I don't really blame you as I have had simiar feeling of Jets players in the past. But I just can't see cutting him now.

 

I was stating what I think they should do, not what I think they will do.  And I don't care what Idzik or Ryan would do anyway.  I don't have to do any PR ass-covering since I'm not the GM.  Idzik does, however.  Reading Rex's totally unenthusiastic and seemingly forced support for Sanchez, it seems he knows Sanchez is garbage also.  No one announces there will be competition at a position unless he thinks there's lots of room for improvement.  Notice he isn't saying there's going to be competition for Ferguson, Mangold, Cromartie, Revis (if he returns), Wilkerson, etc.  The reason is obvious.  He may be a silly man and lacking in certain areas as a HC, but he's not retarded.

 

Jets are absorbing $8.25M of new money to Sanchez in 2013 no matter what.  We have a mediocre to major mess of a roster situation in 2013 no matter what.  Why push some of it off to 2014? I think we can be contenders by 2014.  Having Sanchez on the team in 2013 only hurts that because it means he hits the cap significantly for yet another year no matter what we do after the '13 season.

 

It has nothing to do with personal feelings for Sanchez. My answer is because I don't give a crap about him at all.  He is bad for the team and having his cap hits spill over to 2014 is worse for the team.  Next year you'll see why, when we add a $2M player at a position instead of a $7M player because of Sanchez's dead cap space (and that's if we do nothing; restructure him a little and it's even worse).

 

Idzik cannot get this "straightened out" no matter how much of a chance you want to give him.  Sanchez stays in '13 and he hits the cap in '14.  Sanchez is shipped off in the spring and he doesn't.  There is no way around it because the Jets have already paid him so much in bonuses.  The choice is to have the cap hit for bonus money paid accelerate to 2013 or 2014.  I would choose 2013.

Sanchez sucks no matter who the receivers are.  If a guy is open he is open.  Whether a receiver's name is Clyde Gates or Antonio Cromartie or Larry Fitzgerald, the ball doesn't get delivered on-target on its own.  He cannot throw a football straight and cannot read coverage.  All he sees is his own receiver (and so does everyone else because of his idiotic stare-downs) and even when that receiver is open he still fails to throw a strike 80-90% of the time.

[billo83]

i just hope they bring it minimum 4 guys to compete at camp

 

and that tebow and mcelsack are not invited

Yes, he should be someone they cut now, if there is no cap effect. He is not an NFL caliber player.

 

Tebow is an interesting situation. I don't think they are going to get anything for him now in a trade. I really don't know the cap implications if they cut him, especially time wise. Can Marty get enough out of him and make it appear the Jets are going to keep him, and entice another team to offer a reasonable trade, or enough to justify keeping him on the roster? I hate to see us lose a 4th rounder for essentially nothing. Tebow was 100% misused by Sporano, and in the past shown he can be a play maker.

[Sperm Edwards]

What are the cap ramifications in 2014 if we cut Sanchez now as opposed to keeping him for this season?

 

For 2014, he's 100% off the cap if we cut him now.  

 

He counts $5M if we keep him and do nothing.  

 

He'll count more than $5M in '14 if we restructure his contract now to lower his '13 cap number.