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kelticwizard

Kyle Wilson

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DMaynard    69,141

Really? That you've ever seen?

Yes. I have never seen a CB who never turned his head around. And as far as I know, No Neck Williams only played baseball. Never football.

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Larz    59,445

maybe just have him stay on the jets sidelines and have a coach run with him and yell BALLLLLLLLLLLLLL

 

when its released ?

 

oh wait, most sidelines already do that

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Klecko73isGod    123,121

Yes. I have never seen a CB who never turned his head around. And as far as I know, No Neck Williams only played baseball. Never football.

 

Dude, he allowed one catch to a damn good WR. 

 

That's literally the only thing that matters. 

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Latinlawyer    2,248

Look the bottom line is that you don't pick a CB in the first round to play slot CB. The truth is the guy sucked on the outside and found a palatable home in the slot. However, I am now convinced that Trufant is a better and cheaper player than Wilson and there is no way re-sign him after the contract is over unless its for depth (2nd string slot cover CB).

 

LL
 

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Larz    59,445

Dude, he allowed one catch to a damn good WR. 

 

That's literally the only thing that matters. 

 

the PI's actually count, but wouldn't be called if he TURNED HIS DAMNED HEAD AROUND

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DMaynard    69,141

Dude, he allowed one catch to a damn good WR. 

 

That's literally the only thing that matters. 

Pass interference matters too. And I am talking about a 4 year career of stiffness, not this last game.

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JiF    125,359

Dude, he allowed one catch to a damn good WR. 

 

That's literally the only thing that matters. 

 

Which was probably the funniest part of this thread that has gone untouched, "he pretty much got shown up by Nicks"  really?  1 catch?  

 

Remember when Nicks had 10 catches for 109 yards on Devon McCourty in the SB?  You know, the guy selected ahead of Wilson?  How you define that outing for McCourty? 

 

the PI's actually count, but wouldn't be called if he TURNED HIS DAMNED HEAD AROUND

 

Oh, oops.  2 PI's, 1 of them being committed on his only reception of the game.  Thats like, totally shown up and stuff. 

Edited by JiF

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DMaynard    69,141

Which was probably the funniest part of this thread that has gone untouched, "he was pretty much got shown up by Nicks"  really?  1 catch?  

 

Remember when Nicks had 10 catches for 109 yards on Devon McCourty in the SB?  You know, the guy selected ahead of Wilson?  How you define that outing for McCourty? 

 

 

Oh, oops.  2 PI's, 1 of them being committed on his only reception of the game.  Thats like, totally shown up and stuff. 

Have you been watching Wilson the last 4 years? Particularly when he is on the outside playing man to man?

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Larz    59,445

you can tell who didn't watch the game, or doesn't understand basic corner play

 

he's a guaranteed big play for the offense. you know it comes up in scouting reports.  if you think it matters if he gives up a 35 yard catch or 35 yard PI, good for you

 

have a cookie

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NJ    132,734

Dude, he allowed one catch to a damn good WR. 

 

That's literally the only thing that matters. 

Right. Penalty yards are make believe. That's all this fool can do is grab a jersey or an arm because he's not focused on grabbing the ball or even deflecting it for that matter. Tough to do either when you don't know where it is. And even when he's halfway turned around on it he'd much rather interfere than grab the ball. (1st PI Sat night) 

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Larz    59,445

 

 

Oh, oops.  2 PI's, 1 of them being committed on his only reception of the game.  Thats like, totally shown up and stuff. 

 

actually yes, when you are close enough to interfere, don't get your head around, actually do interfere and the WR still makes the catch, that's like totes bad and stuff

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Klecko73isGod    123,121

Right. Penalty yards are make believe. That's all this fool can do is grab a jersey or an arm because he's not focused on grabbing the ball or even deflecting it for that matter. Tough to do either when you don't know where it is. And even when he's halfway turned around on it he'd much rather interfere than grab the ball. (1st PI Sat night) 

 

 

Smart people who know football disagree with you:

 

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NJ    132,734

Smart people who know football disagree with you:

 

Not so smart people who don't know so much about football give flowery praise to a corner about that allows 1 catch (when it was 2) and fails to mention the 3 PI penalties 2 of which would have been catches as well.  

 

The false read in those metrics will play out in exact proportion to how much Wilson is on the field this season.

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Latinlawyer    2,248

Anyone who was at the game or paid close attention on the TV coverage would have seen Kyle Wilson exposed as a bad CB.

 

1) He never turned his head around on plays.

2) He lacked closing speed.

3) He grabbed the WR when he was beat.

4) Committed 3 PI penalties.

 

If you are the Opposing QB and you see Wilson on the Outside....have your WR run a Fly or Streak and let it rip...one of three things will happen

 

1) You will get a PI against Wilson for considerable yardage.

2) You will gain considerable yardage through a completion.

3) You will overthrow your target and Kyle will clap like he caused the overthrow.

 

Kyle Wilson is a bad cover corner on the outside. He is marginally ok on the slot receivers. I still say Isiah Trufant is a better slot CB than Kyle. So that leaves Kyle as a Dime back or Special teamer.

 

LL

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JiF    125,359

Have you been watching Wilson the last 4 years? Particularly when he is on the outside playing man to man?

 

Yes, in fact, I have.  He always right there with his man, often doesnt get his eyes on the ball in time. I've also seen him get over 70% of the snaps on defense while playing secondary on the league best pass D.  

 

actually yes, when you are close enough to interfere, don't get your head around, actually do interfere and the WR still makes the catch, that's like totes bad and stuff

 

Why?  Do you get extra yards now for that even after you decline the penalty? 

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DMaynard    69,141

Yes, in fact, I have.  He always right there with his man, often doesnt get his eyes on the ball in time. I've also seen him get over 70% of the snaps on defense while playing secondary on the league best pass D.  

 

 

 

Correct. I did not say he was the worst CB I have ever seen, only the worst in ball awareness. To be fair, his speed and route detection (which he probably picked up from Revis) is actually very good. Rarely does anyone get much separation from him. And that is not insignificant. That causes the opposing QB to have a smaller window and sometime have to adjust his pass trajectory, which certainly cuts down on accuracy.

In the slot where the receivers are generally running underneath patterns and playing in a zone is where he can live without too much harm. On the outside in man to man, his one blatant weakness is horribly exposed.

Edited by DMaynard

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faba    117,904

Not only has he been terrible in coverage with penalties and getting beat- he stupidly contratulates himself for a poor throw by the QB

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DMaynard    69,141

Not only has he been terrible in coverage with penalties and getting beat- he stupidly contratulates himself for a poor throw by the QB

To be fair, like I just said, tight coverage can lead to poor throws. But so can pass rush pressure and just simply, bad throws. He should not act like he just made a great play. Turn your damn head around, Igor, and have a chance to go for the ball instead of hoping for a poor pass!!!

 

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NJ    132,734

To be fair, like I just said, tight coverage can lead to poor throws. But so can pass rush pressure and just simply, bad throws. He should not act like he just made a great play. Turn your damn head around, Igor, and have a chance to go for the ball instead of hoping for a poor pass!!!

 

I'm beyond hoping that he quits acting like an imbecile with his after the whistle, delusional antics. I just hope we can get somebody up to speed as a nickle and try him at safety or anywhere that minimizes his toast exposure.

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kelticwizard    9,531

. Rarely does anyone get much separation from him. And that is not insignificant. That causes the opposing QB to have a smaller window....

That's true, and I think Wilson is just playing the percentages.  If you turn your head to look for the ball, you will likely lose half a step or more in your running.  You might pick up the ball and be able to adjust to it and make a play, but that head turn might well mean the difference between the receiver getting separation or not.  And if that happens, coaches and fans will say the receiver beat Wilson, because when the ball hits the receiver he's half a step ahead of him.

 

So Wilson has adopted on purpose the style of keeping up with his man at all costs.  If the ball comes down late and the receiver slows down and starts adjusting you can look for the ball then.  Or if the ball is not short then you can always try to knock the ball out of the receiver's hands before he tucks it in.  If that doesn't happen, then by being right with the receiver you can say that it was simply a perfect pass.

 

But by all means stick with the receiver.  The Jets have the only corner in the league who follows the Woody Allen philosophy:  Eighty percent of anything is just being there.

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Larz    59,445

Yes, in fact, I have.  He always right there with his man, often doesnt get his eyes on the ball in time. I've also seen him get over 70% of the snaps on defense while playing secondary on the league best pass D.  

 

 

Why?  Do you get extra yards now for that even after you decline the penalty? 

 

 

its like in hoops when you whack a guy and he still scores.  thats bad.  I get it that you are the happy jets fan guy, but wilson is a huge liabality and will have a huge target on him.  

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JiF    125,359

its like in hoops when you whack a guy and he still scores.  thats bad.  I get it that you are the happy jets fan guy, but wilson is a huge liabality and will have a huge target on him.  

 

No, its actually not the same at all.  In basketball, you get an extra shot called a free throw.  If you make that free throw, you get a point.  You dont get extra yards for PI'ing on a reception unless that PI is short of the first down, which this play was not.  

 

If Kyle Wilson was a liability, the Jets wouldn consistently have the leagues best secondary.  He gets beat, just like every other corner in Football.  For some reason when it happens to him, Jets fans lose site of that.    Kyle isnt anything special but he's a good 3rd corner who can be the #2 if necessary. And thats ok.  Every team needs players like that. 

Edited by JiF

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Bleedin Green    73,963

No, its actually not the same at all.  In basketball, you get an extra shot called a free throw.  If you make that free throw, you get a point.  You dont get extra yards for PI'ing on a reception unless that PI is short of the first down, which this play was not.  

 

If Kyle Wilson was a liability, the Jets wouldn consistently have the leagues best secondary.  He gets beat, just like every other corner in Football.  For some reason when it happens to him, Jets fans lose site of that.    Kyle isnt anything special but he's a good 3rd corner who can be the #2 if necessary. And thats ok.  Every team needs players like that. 

 

I've come to realize that I think the issue isn't people's evaluation of Wilson's CB play as much as it is their evaluation of the CB play throughout the NFL.  Jets fans have certainly gotten spoiled over the years but the truth is that, with the exception of a handful of guys (which the Jets had the fortune of having 2 of for an extended period of time), the CB play out there is pretty damn bad.  Wilson is certainly a disappointment for his draft position, but he's also not as immeasurably bad as some view him to be.  When he (most likely) leaves the Jets next offseason, he may not be cashing in big time, but he'll certainly have teams interested and is going to find himself with a new nickel, if not #2, job somewhere in this league without question.

 

The kid certainly has his bad moments and has them more often than you'd like, but if you consider how much he's played, particularly last year, they're not nearly as much as you'd think based on many of these evaluations .  Call me crazy, but I'm going to go out on a limb that JN hasn't figured out the secret to 100% guaranteed success against the Jets defense before any of the league's OCs or QBs could.  It's not even that he's particularly great, it's just that when it comes to a #3 CB, you can do, and many teams have done, a lot worse.

Edited by Bleedin Green

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JiF    125,359

I've come to realize that I think the issue isn't people's evaluation of Wilson's CB play as much as it is their evaluation of the CB play throughout the NFL.  Jets fans have certainly gotten spoiled over the years but the truth is that, with the exception of a handful of guys (which the Jets had the fortune of having 2 of for an extended period of time), the CB play out there is pretty damn bad.  Wilson is certainly a disappointment for his draft position, but he's also not as immeasurably bad as some view him to be.  When he (most likely) leaves the Jets next offseason, he may not be cashing in big time, but he'll certainly have teams interested and is going to find himself with a new nickel, if not #2, job somewhere in this league without question.

 

The kid certainly has his bad moments and has them more often than you'd like, but if you consider how much he's played, particularly last year, they're not nearly as much as you'd think based on many of these evaluations .  Call me crazy, but I'm going to go out on a limb that JN hasn't figured out the secret to 100% guaranteed success against the Jets defense before any of the league's OCs or QBs could.  It's not even that he's particularly great, it's just that when it comes to a #3 CB, you can do, and many teams have done, a lot worse.

 

That's a very judicial way of putting it.

 

I think he's easily a #2 on most squads and I bet if we really searched around the league we could probably find a place where he might even be a #1. For example, he'd probably be the Jags #1 CB.  Not saying much, but just sayin.

 

I've done this exercise before in another thread, but like usual, it gets ignored.  But go look around the league at CB's selected 5 spots in front of him to 5 spots in back of him from the last 5 years, there's maybe 2 identifiable names that you could argue are good players/better than Wilson.

 

I even mentioned it in this thread, McCourty, who was taken before him, got bitch slapped in the SB by Nicks...and not to the tune of 1 reception like Wilson the other night.  Like truly, bitch slapped. 

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#27TheDominator    203,590

Anyone who was at the game or paid close attention on the TV coverage would have seen Kyle Wilson exposed as a bad CB.

 

1) He never turned his head around on plays.

2) He lacked closing speed.

3) He grabbed the WR when he was beat.

4) Committed 3 PI penalties.

 

If you are the Opposing QB and you see Wilson on the Outside....have your WR run a Fly or Streak and let it rip...one of three things will happen

 

1) You will get a PI against Wilson for considerable yardage.

2) You will gain considerable yardage through a completion.

3) You will overthrow your target and Kyle will clap like he caused the overthrow.

 

Kyle Wilson is a bad cover corner on the outside. He is marginally ok on the slot receivers. I still say Isiah Trufant is a better slot CB than Kyle. So that leaves Kyle as a Dime back or Special teamer.

 

LL

 

 

Wow.  I guess #3 happened a whole bunch last year because I don't remember teams throwing for much yardage or all these PI calls either.  I think the coverages will switch up when the season starts and even though his ball awareness isn't the best, he's fine.  You guys are spoiled by Revis and Cro.  

 

I agree that Trufant is very good in the slot, but he is also a fidget and would probably be destroyed by guys like Nicks. Trufant is also coming off a significant knee injury, so it remains to be seen if he will be the same.  

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HessStation    20,399

I never thought so and I think that Rex's display was one reason I started to doubt his ability to keep the good times rolling. Lots of people had third round grades on Wilson, yet Rex acted like we 'stole' Deion Sanders. Mistakes like Wilson in the draft have been what kept the Jets from progressing after two positive years.

Who were the "lots of people"?

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Greenseed4    1,342

Kyle Wilson's stats from Saturday night:

 

-Kickoff return for 21 yards.  However, he was 7-deep in the endzone, so got our would-be touch back to the 14 yard line.

-Got credit for a tackle on kickoff coverage. 

-(8:22) pass interference (H.Nicks) for 12 yards.

-(11:17)gave up reception (R.Randle) for 9 yards.

-(3:10) pass interference (H.Nicks) for 23 yards.

-(2:54) pass interference (H. Nicks) for 34 yards.  penalty declined because Nicks one-handed it. 

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Klecko73isGod    123,121

I've come to realize that I think the issue isn't people's evaluation of Wilson's CB play as much as it is their evaluation of the CB play throughout the NFL.  Jets fans have certainly gotten spoiled over the years but the truth is that, with the exception of a handful of guys (which the Jets had the fortune of having 2 of for an extended period of time), the CB play out there is pretty damn bad.  Wilson is certainly a disappointment for his draft position, but he's also not as immeasurably bad as some view him to be.  When he (most likely) leaves the Jets next offseason, he may not be cashing in big time, but he'll certainly have teams interested and is going to find himself with a new nickel, if not #2, job somewhere in this league without question.

 

The kid certainly has his bad moments and has them more often than you'd like, but if you consider how much he's played, particularly last year, they're not nearly as much as you'd think based on many of these evaluations .  Call me crazy, but I'm going to go out on a limb that JN hasn't figured out the secret to 100% guaranteed success against the Jets defense before any of the league's OCs or QBs could.  It's not even that he's particularly great, it's just that when it comes to a #3 CB, you can do, and many teams have done, a lot worse.

 

I also think some people focus on the one play they see in a game where a mistake is made, the announcers talk about, maybe show a replay and use the telestrater, maybe show multiple angles. Then based on that, they assume that player does that all the time.

 

Because, let's face it, how often does the average fan focus on a single QB in coverage. Hell, I'd say the camera only catches a particular non-QB player for about 25% of his snaps. 

 

But, that's the play they saw so Kyle Wilson must do that ALL the time. 

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Klecko73isGod    123,121

Kyle Wilson's stats from Saturday night:

 

-Kickoff return for 21 yards.  However, he was 7-deep in the endzone, so got our would-be touch back to the 14 yard line.

-Got credit for a tackle on kickoff coverage. 

-(8:22) pass interference (H.Nicks) for 12 yards.

-(11:17)gave up reception (R.Randle) for 9 yards.

-(3:10) pass interference (H.Nicks) for 23 yards.

-(2:54) pass interference (H. Nicks) for 34 yards.  penalty declined because Nicks one-handed it. 

 

 

Those aren't stats. Those are the results of 7 of the probably 35 or so plays Kyle Wilson was on the field for Saturday night. 

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