Jets decisions are terrible & drafting worse

[jgb]

great posts, sperm. i don't want people to get carpal tunnel scrolling through them twice by quoting them but nicely done. fun read

[j4jets]

I don't think he went best-available this year. I think he did that in 2013 (at least earlier-on), and expected that to continue in 2014. But 2014 was as needs-based as a draft gets, from top to bottom.

 

I agree there. Pryor wasn't anyones BPA until maybe late in the 1st. I hope he turns out to be BPA though.

[j4jets]

If you can't identify talent, drafting for need probably isn't going to get you anywhere, either. 

 

Thats the point. None of this works if u can't identify talent. If u can identify talent and still go for need, you only get short term success. 

[#27TheDominator]

The pro-Rex movement is officially dumber than the pro-Herm movement was. Not even close at this point.

 

 

Don't lump me in with that moronic ****. I will fight you in the parking lot!

[Sperm Edwards]

I agree there. Pryor wasn't anyones BPA until maybe late in the 1st. I hope he turns out to be BPA though.

 

No doubt. The only one I think was really arguable as pure BPA was Amaro (depending on one's board). Or anyway, it's one where the possibility of BPA and need coincided.

 

But then McDougle couldn't have been anyone's BPA, even if the Jets convinced themselves he had the highest ceiling of those remaining (at a value position that gets brownie points for being just that in a BPA system). But they had a real hole at CB.

 

Then next, they drafted a punt returner with full-time starter prospects still available. Or maybe they picked him up to groom behind Kerley for a year then take his job so the slot receiver would make $500K/year for the next 4 years instead of $4M per. 

 

Then they had to go back to WR because they still had a gaping hold opposite Decker.

 

Then they went back to the OL because Colon was always supposed to be a stopgap and it didn't look like they had 2 starters between Winters and Aboushi (nor Campbell, if he was worth mentioning at all). Maybe not even 1.

 

It went on like that. LBer drafted because we needed a backup to allow Ryan to use Bellore without worrying about getting his important backup injured.

 

Then another CB prospect for competition with McDougle, and maybe someone to groom behind Wilson who's a FA after this year anyway.

 

Then backup QB with similar skill set to the QB drafted last year.

 

Need right down the line. Maybe Reilly in the 7th was BPA, as he could have been drafted much earlier without surprising any hobbyist draftniks.

 

 

I don't follow NCAA so I just go by reading what others write. So it's hard for me to comment at the time they're drafted, since at the time I don't usually know much of anything about these players. It's also convenient for me because I get to play the hindsight game in which I'm always right. lol

[j4jets]

No doubt. The only one I think was really arguable as pure BPA was Amaro (depending on one's board). Or anyway, it's one where the possibility of BPA and need coincided.

 

But then McDougle couldn't have been anyone's BPA, even if the Jets convinced themselves he had the highest ceiling of those remaining (at a value position that gets brownie points for being just that in a BPA system). But they had a real hole at CB.

 

Then next, they drafted a punt returner with full-time starter prospects still available. Or maybe they picked him up to groom behind Kerley for a year then take his job so the slot receiver would make $500K/year for the next 4 years instead of $4M per. 

 

Then they had to go back to WR because they still had a gaping hold opposite Decker.

 

Then they went back to the OL because Colon was always supposed to be a stopgap and it didn't look like they had 2 starters between Winters and Aboushi (nor Campbell, if he was worth mentioning at all). Maybe not even 1.

 

It went on like that. LBer drafted because we needed a backup to allow Ryan to use Bellore without worrying about getting his important backup injured.

 

Then another CB prospect for competition with McDougle, and maybe someone to groom behind Wilson who's a FA after this year anyway.

 

Then backup QB with similar skill set to the QB drafted last year.

 

Need right down the line. Maybe Reilly in the 7th was BPA, as he could have been drafted much earlier without surprising any hobbyist draftniks.

 

 

I don't follow NCAA so I just go by reading what others write. So it's hard for me to comment at the time they're drafted, since at the time I don't usually know much of anything about these players. It's also convenient for me because I get to play the hindsight game in which I'm always right. lol

 

The hindsight game is easy. Commenting at the time of the draft is a piece of cake. Bash all the picks and in our case, you are guaranteed to get almost all ur calls right...as long as we have Boobway as our scout leader. 

[T0mShane]

Don't lump me in with that moronic ****. I will fight you in the parking lot!

 

 

I'm sorry, Dom. However, the PHM (Pro-Herm Movement) was at least self-aware. The PRM has reached a point of peak idiocy.

[southparkcpa]

If you can't identify talent, drafting for need probably isn't going to get you anywhere, either. 

Now Now...Tanny went to UMASS and scouted Vlad Ducasse.  He somehow missed the undrafted wide receiver Victor Cruz.  

 

Jets management is the real problem.   We have below average talent because we have below average short term thinkers at the helm.

 

Giants, Pats, Ravens, Steelers, GB. All have management that thinks long term.

 

That type of management would never bring in Tebow or have sat with Pennington for as long as we did.

[Sperm Edwards]

The hindsight game is easy. Commenting at the time of the draft is a piece of cake. Bash all the picks and in our case, you are guaranteed to get almost all ur calls right...as long as we have Boobway as our scout leader.

Well this game may seem easy to you...now that you have the benefit of hindsight. 

[Sperm Edwards]

Now Now...Tanny went to UMASS and scouted Vlad Ducasse.  He somehow missed the undrafted wide receiver Victor Cruz.  

 

Jets management is the real problem.   We have below average talent because we have below average short term thinkers at the helm.

 

Giants, Pats, Ravens, Steelers, GB. All have management that thinks long term.

 

That type of management would never bring in Tebow or have sat with Pennington for as long as we did.

 

Much like missing Colston who, like the Jets, were practicing at Hofstra all season.

 

That's ok. It's not like the Jets ever found any receivers from Hofstra before so there's no point in looking, right?

[Scott Dierking]

He has other claims to fame. Just not ones that are looked upon favorably, starting with the hire of Herm Edwards (though that may or may not have been a deal Woody J made with the league so he would get the team despite being the #2 bidder).

WHAT????

 

 

Al Groh was the first coach under Woody Johnson.

 

I don't mind an agenda, but lets get facts straight.

[SickJetFan]

The pro-Rex movement is officially dumber than the pro-Herm movement was. Not even close at this point.

 

That must put the pro-Idziot movement into short bus, window licker category?

[#27TheDominator]

I'm sorry, Dom. However, the PHM (Pro-Herm Movement) was at least self-aware. The PRM has reached a point of peak idiocy.

 

If you are talking Mehta, fine.  To me it is more the Anti-Rex Movement going overboard.  I don't think guys like Slats and I have approached peak idiocy.  We have not yet begun to fight! The guy deserves to be fired. The team isn't winning and hasn't won, but they (you?) want to discredit all accomplishments as Jets coach and act like the guy can't coach D.  That is silly.  You can fire a guy without discrediting every single thing he did. 

 

I really wonder if/how long for Rex to get another HC gig.  His attitude and genetics kept him from getting one for a long time and this was not a successful tenure.  OTOH, Whisenhunt got another gig, why the hell shouldn't Rex?

[Jetster]

The whole BPA is complete BS unless your staring at an Andrew Luck, Calvin Johnson, Julio Jones types.

Belichick traded out of a pick that could have been Clay Mathews.

17 teams passed on Aaron Rogers!

The draft is an inexact science. Would the Jets have been better off with an Olineman? Benjamin?, Jordan Mathews?

Who the hell cares when they are taken if they help your team.

If a Jet scout thinks Bryce Petty could be a Better QB than Mariota or Winston should we wait until the 2nd round & watch another team take him at the middle or end of the 1st round (where Rogers was taken).

We need LBs really bad! Davis needs another guy with him to make the field smaller for opposing offenses.

Chris Borland was a player I wanted for the Jets. He was the 77th player taken & is playing lights out for the 49ers.

Jets will be in one of those picks, (6), probably that are really no better than having pick 15.

If BPA is another Dlineman are we taking him? Not a bad idea if your trading someone but Rex has just been stacking these guys up like firewood, ridiculous, and we STILL don't have an edge rusher!

Can't wait for this whole crew to be jettisoned out of here. They haven't drafted any better than anyone here could have drafted.

[SickJetFan]

 

Author = Manish Mehta.  I can't take a journalist seriously when he knows Idzik and has such a personal ax to grind with him. 

 

What good would Revis have done to the 2014 Jets? Used up $12M (or more) of next year's flexibility just to do it? We weren't winning a SB with or without him. Even NE only signed him because they viewed themselves as contenders without him and a favorite with him, have unsuccessfully tried to fill the position for years, and the Brady window was closing.  The Jets and Patriots were in totally different positions when Tampa cut Revis.

 

Further, if one wants to use past injuries as a predictor of future injuries, as many have stated with Milliner/McDougle after they were injured, Revis was as likely to miss the entire season to injury as either of the 2 Jets CBs that missed the entire season. Probably more so. The actual result is merely using hindsight to play know-it-all. 

 

Somehow I doubt Mehta would have written this article if Revis re-injured his knee and missed the season, or had/faked another nagging hammy injury that caused him to miss games an play like crap, and if Milliner and/or McDougle didn't. Even if Idzik did re-sign Revis (assuming that it was allowed, and also assuming Revis didn't already have a deal in place with NE, which are 2 massive assumptions), had we re-signed him for some $13M or more for the year, and it was Revis who missed the season after injuring his knee again, there's little doubt Mehta would have repeatedly crucified him in the paper for not having the foresight to predict that as well.

 

 

I think the Jets should do a full housecleaning, but so should the Daily News. It would be one thing if he was smart and controversial, and that caused Jets fans discomfort to hear inconvenient but irrefutable truths. Mehta is not smart and controversial, though. He's just petty and childish, and frankly is using his position like a wimpy bully.  If the owner doesn't want Revis back, and was the one who spearheaded Revis's departure in the first place, Mehta knows perfectly well Idzik can't respond and throw the team owner under the bus to absolve himself, or his 50/50 prospect of returning becomes zero.  And Mehta knows that is the case, because he wrote about it himself:

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/jets-fans-revis-reaches-one-year-12-million-deal-rival-patriots-article-1.1719829

"...Woody Johnson spearheaded a divorce with one of the best players in franchise history..."

"John Idzik [...] was hired, in part, because he agreed with owner Woody Johnson’s belief to trade Ryan’s best player..."

 

Anyone (like Mehta) who parrots the alleged opinion that Revis wanted to come back here IMO is willfully ignoring what Revis really meant: he wanted the Jets to pay him more than anyone else would pay him, on a $13 million 1-year deal (or more, if there was a bidding war, which Revis also surely wanted). And the Jets were supposed to do this during an offseason in which they don't even know if they will have a starter-worthy QB come September. That's if he actually wanted to come back here at all, and didn't just want the Jets to make him an offer so he could get even with Woody by telling the Jets to go f*ck themselves.

 

 

There are plenty of good reasons to justify moving on from Idzik at the end of the season. This is not one of them.

What good would Revis have done to the 2014 Jets?  made them a little more watchable - we have had less on this team with revis and done better

Used up $12M (or more) of next year's flexibility just to do it?  Idziot wasted 7 million of that on Harvin at 1-7?

 

the rest I didnt read cause I dont like whats his name from daily news either but i would have liked us to sign Revis back esp at the point we were at.

[Scott Dierking]

What good would Revis have done to the 2014 Jets?  

Allowed teams to REALLY exploit Kyle Wilson.

[SickJetFan]

Allowed teams to REALLY exploit Kyle Wilson.

like they already didnt?

[vincenzo69]

Allowed teams to REALLY exploit Kyle Wilson.

Please I can't wait for that clown to finally go away.

[vincenzo69]

Who needs Darrelle Revis and Desean Jackson when you can have D'Mitri Patterson and Jacoby Ford?

 

 

[southparkcpa]

Much like missing Colston who, like the Jets, were practicing at Hofstra all season.

 

That's ok. It's not like the Jets ever found any receivers from Hofstra before so there's no point in looking, right?

Not sure your point....  I, as a financial professional could look at Vlad and tell you he sucks.

 

How do you not even notice Cruz???  I know it happens but that is the legacy of the JETS.

We are too busy trying to get Tebow.

[Anthony Jet]

Dunbar job is pretty easy given players he gets to coach.

agreed, not saying he isn't a good coach, but really he has a ton of 1st rounders to coach up

[Sperm Edwards]

What good would Revis have done to the 2014 Jets?  made them a little more watchable - we have had less on this team with revis and done better

Used up $12M (or more) of next year's flexibility just to do it?  Idziot wasted 7 million of that on Harvin at 1-7?

 

the rest I didnt read cause I dont like whats his name from daily news either but i would have liked us to sign Revis back esp at the point we were at.

Not a good enough reason. Jets were a building team. Revis is a temporary final piece to a puzzle, not a building block.

If the team couldn't push unspent $ to the next year then your argument has value.

This is a hit piece on Idzik, in continuation of Mehta's crusade against him, not a real push for Revis. Revis is an excuse for another anti-Idzik article. Can't you see that?

If they cut Harvin in February, do you think he was a good $7m pickup for a 1-7 team? He made them a little more watchable, right?

[Sperm Edwards]

Not sure your point....  I, as a financial professional could look at Vlad and tell you he sucks.

 

How do you not even notice Cruz???  I know it happens but that is the legacy of the JETS.

We are too busy trying to get Tebow.

 

We used to practice at Hofstra. Colston used to practice at Hofstra. We should have had a distinct advantage in scouting him, over other teams who only got to see live games. Since we had the opportunity for more exposure to this player (not to mention what is, or should be, more familiarity with their coaches) one would think they should have seen something in him before the Saints did.

 

Now Colston WAS one of the last players chosen, meaning everyone passed on him multiple times. But our 7th round pick was Titus Adams, so it just never sit well.

[jgb]

Lets face it Jets need everything except DL and are only good at drafting/developing DLinemen. So basically we are screwed.

[Sperm Edwards]

I don't mind an agenda, but lets get facts straight.

 

Oh, calm yourself with the agenda stuff. I seriously just forgot about Groh's timing for a minute. The league was very interested in seeing Herm Edwards hired as an NFL HC and was a very poor fit for this roster, on top of being wholly unqualified.

[southparkcpa]

We used to practice at Hofstra. Colston used to practice at Hofstra. We should have had a distinct advantage in scouting him, over other teams who only got to see live games. Since we had the opportunity for more exposure to this player (not to mention what is, or should be, more familiarity with their coaches) one would think they should have seen something in him before the Saints did.

 

Now Colston WAS one of the last players chosen, meaning everyone passed on him multiple times. But our 7th round pick was Titus Adams, so it just never sit well.

BUT...its not like we drafted someone from Hofstra that was a 6-4 muff diver that barely played high school ball.  The VLAD draft bothers me more.

[Sperm Edwards]

Lets face it Jets need everything except DL and are only good at drafting/developing DLinemen. So basically we are screwed.

Maybe the DL drafting was all Bradway over-scouting the position after all.

With two productive, recent 1st round picks entrenched at DE (one a first-team all-pro), and a system that valued safeties who were good in coverage, in round 1 he drafted another DE in Bryan Thomas over Ed Reed (or guards Simmons or Gurode, since we were starting JP Machado).

Trading up for Robertson (before it was even known he'd be available in that slot, which only made it worse). Two first rounders and a fourth rounder and millions extra in cap space were used for this trade-up.

It didn't start in 2009 (though there was a lapse of it when Tannenbaum+Mangini era, when we started Robertson at NT plus picked up veterans Kimo von A-hOel and Coleman to make up for the inability and reluctance to draft a DE to play opposite Ellis. Then finally used 2 more picks on Jenkins after a couple of years of Robertson at nose.

Hmmm...

[southparkcpa]

WHAT????

 

 

Al Groh was the first coach under Woody Johnson.

 

I don't mind an agenda, but lets get facts straight.

and Al Groh bolted after one year.   I wonder why ???  It looks like it was to coach his Alma Mater but he had a pretty stacked team  and  maybe he saw the "REAL" Woody. The Woody that J and J saw and locked out of the company.

[slats]

and Al Groh bolted after one year.   I wonder why ???  It looks like it was to coach his Alma Mater but he had a pretty stacked team  and  maybe he saw the "REAL" Woody. The Woody that J and J saw and locked out of the company.

The players hated him and completely quit on him down the stretch. He was our Ray Handley. He just quit before he could get fired.

[#27TheDominator]

We used to practice at Hofstra. Colston used to practice at Hofstra. We should have had a distinct advantage in scouting him, over other teams who only got to see live games. Since we had the opportunity for more exposure to this player (not to mention what is, or should be, more familiarity with their coaches) one would think they should have seen something in him before the Saints did.

 

Now Colston WAS one of the last players chosen, meaning everyone passed on him multiple times. But our 7th round pick was Titus Adams, so it just never sit well.

 

 

Colston was drafted.  They may well have thought that they would have first shot at him as an UDFA.  IIRC, he was also a noted troublemaker in school.  I'm pretty sure that BIt had posted some character issues that were floating.  That was the peak of the Mangini character era.  Everybody was team captain and eagle scout.

 

As for Cruz, you can't get every player.  I am not surprised that he ended up with the Giants.  Cruz does not time particularly well, was kicked out of UMASS twice.  Having UMASS contacts might have been what steered us away.  He is also fairly small.  I have met him a few times and generally felt he was a "little guy" and I'm 5'9" and a puffy 190.  I'm sure his frame needed filling out and he had some growing up to do.  The story is that the Giants are the only team that offered him a deal, so we are not the only team that passed on him as an UDFA.  

 

Ducasse is on his second contract.  He was not a good pick, but the idea he is some unheard of bust is a bit overstated.  He is a reserve lineman and a spot starter.  

[Sperm Edwards]

BUT...its not like we drafted someone from Hofstra that was a 6-4 muff diver that barely played high school ball.  The VLAD draft bothers me more.

And it should bother you. It should bother you even more that we were supposedly considering Vlad in round one if we didn't get so lucky to have draft day steal Kyle Wilson just fall into our laps.

 

They should both bother you. Doesn't have to be one or the other. The Jets have shown themselves capable of missing out on more than 1 prospect.

 

Just saying, when they scouted Vlad, they were probably on the UMass campus like once during the season (if even that), once at their pro day, and the rest was seeing Vlad at the combine plus watching live game film. Don't forget Cruz wasn't even invited to the combine. Everyone had equal access to seeing Cruz at UMass, and no one (including the Giants) drafted him. It's not like the Jets had a scout in the stands at any UMass games (unless they have like 100 scouts), or were on the UMass campus all the time throughout the season, or that Cruz put up gaudy numbers there.

 

If Cruz didn't jump off the screen when watching game film, there's no particular reason they should have known enough to use a draft pick on him. Scouting Vlad doesn't mean they were at UMass with an opportunity to watch the whole team practice all season long.

 

Colston bothered me more because they had the opportunity to see him far more than they did Cruz. The Jets were in a unique position to scout Colston. For a kid who was such an instant success, who practiced in Hempstead, it's harder for me to accept.

[southparkcpa]

And it should bother you. It should bother you even more that we were supposedly considering Vlad in round one if we didn't get so lucky to have draft day steal Kyle Wilson just fall into our laps.

 

They should both bother you. Doesn't have to be one or the other. The Jets have shown themselves capable of missing out on more than 1 prospect.

 

Just saying, when they scouted Vlad, they were probably on the UMass campus like once during the season (if even that), once at their pro day, and the rest was seeing Vlad at the combine plus watching live game film. Don't forget Cruz wasn't even invited to the combine. Everyone had equal access to seeing Cruz at UMass, and no one (including the Giants) drafted him. It's not like the Jets had a scout in the stands at any UMass games (unless they have like 100 scouts), or were on the UMass campus all the time throughout the season, or that Cruz put up gaudy numbers there.

 

If Cruz didn't jump off the screen when watching game film, there's no particular reason they should have known enough to use a draft pick on him. Scouting Vlad doesn't mean they were at UMass with an opportunity to watch the whole team practice all season long.

 

Colston bothered me more because they had the opportunity to see him far more than they did Cruz. The Jets were in a unique position to scout Colston. For a kid who was such an instant success, who practiced in Hempstead, it's harder for me to accept.

Colston would have had Sanchez throwing to him...  he'd be out of the league by now.  

[Sperm Edwards]

Colston was drafted.  They may well have thought that they would have first shot at him as an UDFA.  IIRC, he was also a noted troublemaker in school.  I'm pretty sure that BIt had posted some character issues that were floating.  That was the peak of the Mangini character era.  Everybody was team captain and eagle scout.

 

As for Cruz, you can't get every player.  I am not surprised that he ended up with the Giants.  Cruz does not time particularly well, was kicked out of UMASS twice.  Having UMASS contacts might have been what steered us away.  He is also fairly small.  I have met him a few times and generally felt he was a "little guy" and I'm 5'9" and a puffy 190.  I'm sure his frame needed filling out and he had some growing up to do.  The story is that the Giants are the only team that offered him a deal, so we are not the only team that passed on him as an UDFA.  

 

Ducasse is on his second contract.  He was not a good pick, but the idea he is some unheard of bust is a bit overstated.  He is a reserve lineman and a spot starter.  

 

Yeah I was going to include Titus Adams having a degree in business administration in my reply. Jets core values.

 

I'm far less pissed about Cruz than Colston. Or more correctly, I'm more likely to give the Jets a pass because no one drafted him, including the Giants. You'd like to see them see something in players who were ultimately talented ("look under every rock" as they claim) but I'm more upset because of hindsight and because we really could have used him.

 

Colston was on campus (for more than 1 year). Colston was scouted. Colston was invited to the combine (giant man of a pass-catcher, who they should have been familiar with, ran a 4.5 40). 

[Sperm Edwards]

Colston would have had Sanchez throwing to him...  he'd be out of the league by now.  

 

Actually it would have been Pennington, and then Favre, before Sanchez. Perhaps that changes what they did before the '09 draft. Maybe they change their minds and trade up a year later, to get Ryan, after all. Not that Ryan is headed for Canton, but we nearly got to the SB, twice, with far worse.

[#27TheDominator]

Actually it would have been Pennington, and then Favre, before Sanchez. Perhaps that changes what they did before the '09 draft. Maybe they change their minds and trade up a year later, to get Ryan, after all. Not that Ryan is headed for Canton, but we nearly got to the SB, twice, with far worse.

 

 

That point holds true for Cruz though.  He came out in 2010.