So, You're Telling Me The Jets Still Have a Chance.

[Villain The Foe]

Wait, so now trading Mike Glennon is akin to the Bucs letting Steve Young go to San Francisco ?  Is this akin to the NFL letting Warren Moon go to Canada ? 

 

What exactly are you on  ?

Why do you have so many questions? lol.

[Villain The Foe]

if the bucs were looking to deal glennon, why would they cut McCown?

Because McCown wasnt worth keeping for his salary, he had no trade value and he couldn't win them games. Glennon is worth keeping if it came to that given his $700K price tag, but he has trade value given what he's done at his age. He's shown potential. 

 

Also, people keep talking about McCown like he did something remotely respectable this past year. He won 1 game for the Bucs. He started off the season with a 4 game losing streak before getting hurt. When he returned from his injury he lost, then he finally won his first game, then proceeded to end the season on a 6 game losing streak. You cut a guy like that because he's shown that for the money you're paying him, that if he were to come in he couldn't win you games anyway. He went 1-10 on the season, and this is a guy that the coach sat Glennon down for. 6 of McCown's games he completed less than 53% of his passes, with 3 of those games being in the 40's and many of those down the stretch during that 6 game losing streak. It's ridiculous what they're doing over there honestly. 

[Tinstar]

Why do you have so many questions? lol.

I'm on a journey and I seek answers oh wise and powerful one.

[Villain The Foe]

I'm on a journey and I seek answers oh wise and powerful one.

Okay. Then I'll leave you with this. 

Look very closely at your Sig. Then tell me if Lovie Smith made a wise choice to remove Glennon from the line up when McCown was healthy. Better yet, tell me that during that 6 game losing streak you didnt get the feeling that Lovie was tanking that season to secure that #1 pick. 

 

When you ponder that, then you'll know why Smith kept Glennon out of those games after realizing his mistake with McCown. Lovie Smith doesnt want some other coaches QB. He wants his own QB. If Mike Glennon is not traded this year it wont matter because he simply wont be a Buc for long, and whomever gets him will be the lucky one. Then 7 years from now we'll be having the same conversation that we have today about passing on the opportunity to get Drew Brees. 

 

And please dont ask me if I'm comparing Glennon's game to Brees! lol. Im not, I'm only comparing the opportunity to acquire. 

[BroadwayJets]

Mike Glennon is the best QB in the league

[Lizard King]

Ew

[Lizard King]

Yesterday the Cleveland Browns signed Josh McCown to a 3 year, 14 million dollar deal with 6.25 Million fully guaranteed.

The Jets still have a Shot at Mike Glennon. Please discuss your mutual excitement!

Chad is available

[Villain The Foe]

Mike Glennon is the best QB in the league

Im not sure about that, but he's better than Geno Smith and Matt Simms. 

[Larz]

Please, dont get me wrong. Im in total agreement. I think getting rid of Glennon is the wrong decision and that drafting Winston would be a waste of a draft pick. I think Glennon is the guy that could get it done if they simply fix their offensive line and get some more playmakers on defense to help out David and McCoy. The direction that they seem to be going in isn't smart, but they seem to want to go that path anyway. Winston could be an overall better talent than Glennon in the long run, but that doesnt make Glennon a bad QB, nor does it make Glennon the problem of that offense. Watching the last two years of Tampa Bay games I am SURE that their offensive line is total trash, and they make some suspect calls at times on offense, but its usually because the Oline puts them in just terrible situations. 

 

The plan is to have Glennon there in case Winston busts is a last resort, it has to be if you're looking to spend the #1 pick on a guy. Meaning, you can have a adequate back up no matter who it is, but Winston is obviously the guy. If you're even remotely thinking the words bust and Winston in the same sentence then you shouldn't be drafting him. 

 

Glennon is available for trade, believe that. They're just looking for the right price. I just happen to think that Glennon is worth a shot. We've waisted a 1st on Sanchez, we used a 2nd rounder on Geno...we shouldn't be up in arms for a 3rd rounder when the guy mentioned has looked like an actual NFL QB in comparison to what we've drafted in the past. 

 

technically if you are going to go all ditka and give away a draft almost every player is available, I just think if you look at the mccown release it shows you the plan they have in place

 

draft a QB and keep glennon

[Tinstar]

Okay. Then I'll leave you with this. 

Look very closely at your Sig. Then tell me if Lovie Smith made a wise choice to remove Glennon from the line up when McCown was healthy. Better yet, tell me that during that 6 game losing streak you didnt get the feeling that Lovie was tanking that season to secure that #1 pick. 

 

When you ponder than, then you'll know why Smith kept Glennon out of those games after realizing his mistake with McCown. Lovie Smith doesnt want some other coaches QB. He wants his own QB. If Mike Glennon is not traded this year it wont matter because he simply wont be a Buc for long, and whomever gets him will be the lucky one. Then 7 years from now we'll be having the same conversation that we have today about passing on the opportunity to get Drew Brees. 

 

And please dont ask me if I'm comparing Glennon's game to Brees! lol. Im not, I'm only comparing the opportunity to acquire. 

Now I may be wrong, so feel free to correct me.  Am I to extrapolate from this that the Bucs organization believe they stood a better chance of winning games with Glennon under center than with McCown and therefore they kept Glennon on the bench and played the QB who gave them the best chance to win the 1st overall pick in 2015.

 

Genius, Pure Genius.  

 

 

Mike Glennon still is not worth a 3rd round pick.

[section314]

Now I may be wrong, so feel free to correct me.  Am I to extrapolate from this that the Bucs organization believe they stood a better chance of winning games with Glennon under center than with McCown and therefore they kept Glennon on the bench and played the QB who gave them the best chance to win the 1st overall pick in 2015.

 

Genius, Pure Genius.  

 

 

Mike Glennon still is not worth a 3rd round pick.

Think you nailed it. Exactly why Geno should play every down this year.

[Villain The Foe]

Now I may be wrong, so feel free to correct me.  Am I to extrapolate from this that the Bucs organization believe they stood a better chance of winning games with Glennon under center than with McCown and therefore they kept Glennon on the bench and played the QB who gave them the best chance to win the 1st overall pick in 2015.

 

Genius, Pure Genius.  

 

 

Mike Glennon still is not worth a 3rd round pick.

It wasnt just the Bucs, it was mainly Lovie Smith. 

 

Lovie came in and brought his own QB. When his QB got hurt during a 4 game losing streak to start the season he put Glennon in the game obviously. The 5 games Glennon started he went 1-4, however two of those games Glennon lost was lost in over time (Saints, Vikings) and a 3rd game being lost by the defense giving up points in the last seconds of the 4th qtr after Glennon got them the lead (Browns). 

 

For Lovie Smith to know this more than anyone, yet proceeded to let McCown play when in the 5 games leading up to week 17 McCown averaged a completion rate of 49% while throwing 4 TD's to 7 Int's is totally unexplainable outside of the thought that Smith was tanking to secure that #1 spot. Mike Glennon has NEVER had a stretch of games like that. He's has one game in his career where he completed less than 50 percent of his passes and that was his rookie season and they ended up winning that game on two Glennon TD passes. 

 

Lovie Smith imo doesnt want Glennon. The reason why? If I had to guess its simply because Glennon was the QB here when Lovie arrived, and Lovie wants to establish his own team and the QB spot is most important. 

No way in hell you watch McCown have an 8 game stretch like that and you feel like McCown can put you in a better position to win than Glennon. Lovie wasnt playing to win, he was playing to secure the top spot after he realized that McCown wasnt the answer. He wasnt going to let Glennon come in and potentially ruin his draft position to get either Winston or Mariota.

[smaxor5]

I'd do a cartwheel if we got Glennon.  He has showed nothing but promise with nothing but garbage around him.  I'm on team villain 100%.  A 3rd rounder is a steal for a QB that has already showed promise in the NFL and has the measurables...no NCAA player can claim that.

[The Troll]

Now I may be wrong, so feel free to correct me. Am I to extrapolate from this that the Bucs organization believe they stood a better chance of winning games with Glennon under center than with McCown and therefore they kept Glennon on the bench and played the QB who gave them the best chance to win the 1st overall pick in 2015.

Genius, Pure Genius.

Mike Glennon still is not worth a 3rd round pick.

Well, they pulled most of the starters at halftime of week 17 when they were winning, but left McCown in, so I guess that's your answer.

[bitonti]

the fact that we're even discussing McCown or Glennon shows how well and truly f--ked this team is at the QB position. 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

Ugh.

"If Glennon is that good, how come he didn't start? Why would they get rid of him?"

BECAUSE THEY'RE MORONS! You think a team that's won six games in two years has a firm grip on talent evaluation?

Compared to whom?

[RutgersJetFan]

Ew

 

Warm.

 

the fact that we're even discussing McCown or Glennon shows how well and truly f--ked this team is at the QB position. 

 

Warmer.

 

Compared to whom?

 

Yahtzee.

[Smashmouth]

UNCLE RICO ?

[Smashmouth]

[Smashmouth]

[jack48]

Better yet if he is that good why isn't he Tampas starter, why did he get beat out by every shred of competition tampa ever put in front of him?

His new coach wanted someone he knew.

[operaguy]

Any negotiation is made in the shadow of BATNA (best alternative to a negotiated agreement).  Assuming the Jets have a non-negligible chance of drafting Mariota and / or they consider current free agent QBs to be comparable to Glennon then the chance of Jets offering a third round pick (still pretty high value draft pick) should be considered low.  This is to say that until the BATNA becomes less attractive a third rounder will be too high.

If a trade occurs for Glennon it would probably occur after day one / two in the draft if the Jets are dissatisfied with the remaining board and free agency outcomes.  

[Villain The Foe]

I'd do a cartwheel if we got Glennon.  He has showed nothing but promise with nothing but garbage around him.  I'm on team villain 100%.  A 3rd rounder is a steal for a QB that has already showed promise in the NFL and has the measurables...no NCAA player can claim that.

The potential that Glennon has shown as a rookie and 2nd year player with an organization that hasn't shown that they value him and a offensive line that is one of the worst in the league and no offensive coordinator, I certain believe a 3rd rounder is a steal. We can spend 1st and 2nd round picks all day long on guys who have never played the pro game and people will go back and forth on how we "need" these guys. You have a guy in Glennon that has shown that with no protection and an inconsistent running game that he can put up points and wont kill you with knuckle headed turnovers. 

 

This is of course not sexy enough for Jet fans. We must make a splash all the time. 

[JohnnyLV]

In a couple years I'll be proven right. 

 

Trust me, I've been through this before. 

Incredibly unlikely. It is very very unlikely he starts this year, and at the end of his contract he will be looking to go somewhere and compete, and will wind up as a 2 again. He is too marginal a player that has already had a shot, to likely get another one.

[Villain The Foe]

Incredibly unlikely. It is very very unlikely he starts this year, and at the end of his contract he will be looking to go somewhere and compete, and will wind up as a 2 again. He is too marginal a player that has already had a shot, to likely get another one.

To argue this is futile. You could be right. 

However I heard these type of things plenty times with guys that I've backed intensely. A few names just from last year 

 

Jordan Matthews:I said that he was a top 5 WR to come out of the draft and was worth a 1st rounder. I was laughed at because everyone was on the Brandin Cooks bandwagon. Matthews ended the season a top 5 WR of last years class and is currently in the middle of taking Riley Cooper's job. Meanwhile Brandin Cooks didnt finish the year.

IK Enemkpali: IK made the team and showed great promise after I was told that there was no way in hell he'd make this team. Today IK is a favorite to watch this year.

Phillip Gaines: My favorite CB in last years draft (3rd rd. pick 87 by the chiefs) and I said he could be the best CB in the entire draft. I was told the usual, I was stupid. Today Phillip Gaines had a better year than every 1st round CB drafted last year outside of maybe Kyle Fuller and went from being a 3rd round pick to a Chiefs shutdown starting CB. 

Johnny Manziel: I didnt like him, half the board did. Last year before the draft I was obviously wrong, today I'm right. 

 

 

And though I'm tooting my own horn here, its not out of pompousness, unfortunately the people who are always telling me that Im wrong or I'm on drugs because of what I say never come back to toot the horn for me when Im right. 

 

With that said, Mike Glennon for a 4th or 3rd rounder I believe will change the course of this team's future at the QB position for the better. We'll see if the Jets or another team trades for him. If I'm wrong, I'll definitely hear about it. If I'm right no one will ever want to talk about it. 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

To argue this is futile. You could be right.

However I heard these type of things plenty times with guys that I've backed intensely. 3 names just from last year

Jordan Matthews:I said that he was a top 5 WR to come out of the draft and was worth a 1st rounder. I was laughed at because everyone was on the Brandin Cooks bandwagon. Matthews ended the season a top 5 WR of last years class and is currently in the middle of taking Riley Cooper's job. Meanwhile Brandin Cooks didnt finish the year.

IK Enemkpali: IK made the team and showed great promise after I was told that there was no way in hell he'd make this team. Today IK is a favorite to watch this year.

Phillip Gaines: My favorite CB in last years draft (3rd rd. pick 87 by the chiefs) and is the best CB in the entire draft. I was told the usual, I was stupid. Today Phillip Gaines had a better year than every 1st round CB drafted last year outside of maybe Kyle Fuller.

Johnny Manziel: I didnt like him, half the board did. Last year before the draft I was obviously wrong, today I'm right.

And though I'm tooting my own horn here, its not out of pompousness, unfortunately the people who are always telling me that Im wrong or I'm on drugs because of what I say never come back to toot the horn for me when Im right.

With that said, Mike Glennon for a 4th or 3rd rounder I believe will change the course of this team's future at the QB position for the better. We'll see if the Jets or another team trades for him. If I'm wrong, I'll definitely hear about it. If I'm right no one will ever want to talk about it.

The problem is that you form these general positive or negative impressions of players and then if you're not way off after one whole year you decide that you were 'right.' Close enough is a pretty forgiving standard when you're filling out your own scorecard.

[Villain The Foe]

The problem is that you form these general positive or negative impressions of players and then if you're not way off after one whole year you decide that you were 'right.' Close enough is a pretty forgiving standard when you're filling out your own scorecard.

As usual, there's a problem with what I'm doing. 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

As usual, there's a problem with what I'm doing.

Not for the most part. Frankly I think anything beyond like/don't like is basically nonsense given available information. It's a perfectly reasonable way to look at things. It doesn't give rise to a whole lot of opportunities to crow about being right because you're not setting out to draw testable conclusions, but that's only a problem to the extent that you make it one. You make it one.

[Tinstar]

To argue this is futile. You could be right. 

However I heard these type of things plenty times with guys that I've backed intensely. A few names just from last year 

 

Jordan Matthews:I said that he was a top 5 WR to come out of the draft and was worth a 1st rounder. I was laughed at because everyone was on the Brandin Cooks bandwagon. Matthews ended the season a top 5 WR of last years class and is currently in the middle of taking Riley Cooper's job. Meanwhile Brandin Cooks didnt finish the year.

IK Enemkpali: IK made the team and showed great promise after I was told that there was no way in hell he'd make this team. Today IK is a favorite to watch this year.

Phillip Gaines: My favorite CB in last years draft (3rd rd. pick 87 by the chiefs) and I said he could be the best CB in the entire draft. I was told the usual, I was stupid. Today Phillip Gaines had a better year than every 1st round CB drafted last year outside of maybe Kyle Fuller and went from being a 3rd round pick to a Chiefs shutdown starting CB. 

Johnny Manziel: I didnt like him, half the board did. Last year before the draft I was obviously wrong, today I'm right. 

 

 

And though I'm tooting my own horn here, its not out of pompousness, unfortunately the people who are always telling me that Im wrong or I'm on drugs because of what I say never come back to toot the horn for me when Im right. 

 

With that said, Mike Glennon for a 4th or 3rd rounder I believe will change the course of this team's future at the QB position for the better. We'll see if the Jets or another team trades for him. If I'm wrong, I'll definitely hear about it. If I'm right no one will ever want to talk about it. 

As far as I know, everyone thought  Mathews was going to be a top receiver, and he was. I never thought he was or should be drafted in the 1st round. Before his injury, Brandin Cooks was a large part of the saints offense and was greatly missed when he was gone. The fact that the kid got injured shouldn't lessen that fact. As far as I know, only Mike Mayock  thought  Johnny Manziel was a solid pick and top QB in the 1st round.

 

Finally, if Mike Glennon went to a team other than the NY Jets and did well it would have very little bearing on how he would have done as a Jets. The guy is simply not worth a 3rd or 4th round pick. The Bucs would be stupid not to trade him if a team offered that high a pick for that player.

 

 

I didn't think IK was much of a prospect, and I still don't. Maybe I am wrong. I preferred  Jarvis Landry in the 3rd over spending a 1st round p[ick on OBJ. It's just how I use the draft. You made some solid preferences, great  for you. Here's hoping you do so again.

[Villain The Foe]

Not for the most part. Frankly I think anything beyond like/don't like is basically nonsense given available information. It's a perfectly reasonable way to look at things. It doesn't give rise to a whole lot of opportunities to crow about being right because you're not setting out to draw testable conclusions, but that's only a problem to the extent that you make it one. You make it one.

Saying that you like/dont like a player is perfectly reasonable. Saying that you feel that a guy is worth spending a 3rd rounder on is also reasonable. Being in disagreement with someone is reasonable. Telling someone that they're stupid, a druggie on LSD/Meth, a drunkard etc. isn't reasonable, yet I haven't seen you during any of those conversations on this forum approach them like you're approaching me right now, given their unreasonable position for nothing more than my unpopular opinion. And lets be serious, this is routine here. And I would never say that I have never said anything crazy to anyone here, but I've also apologized if I felt like I took things too far in the public forum, and made sure to leave that apology IN the public forum. This is not something I take personally, its something that I make sure to remind people of when I am right. Thats how I respond to their unreasonable position. You making it seem like I make it a big deal is a bit off. If I felt like it I could present you with numerous threads of me making a statement and being responded to in such a way, and I never see you making a comment about it. But the forum is "public" so those convo's aint hard to find. 

 

So yes, when I read things like that I make sure to bring it up when the individual that I spoke highly of showed to be good. When I dont see anyone such as yourself commenting when individuals attack character instead of debating the topic, it makes me feel that when someone confronts me about whats reasonable or what "I'm making something out to be" its to be taken with a grain of salt. 

 

In otherwords, I hear you. But know that I'll be watching for your appearance when people that are making unreasonable comments to reasonable opinions pop up with their usual bull.

[smaxor5]

To argue this is futile. You could be right. 

However I heard these type of things plenty times with guys that I've backed intensely. A few names just from last year 

 

Jordan Matthews:I said that he was a top 5 WR to come out of the draft and was worth a 1st rounder. I was laughed at because everyone was on the Brandin Cooks bandwagon. Matthews ended the season a top 5 WR of last years class and is currently in the middle of taking Riley Cooper's job. Meanwhile Brandin Cooks didnt finish the year.

IK Enemkpali: IK made the team and showed great promise after I was told that there was no way in hell he'd make this team. Today IK is a favorite to watch this year.

Phillip Gaines: My favorite CB in last years draft (3rd rd. pick 87 by the chiefs) and I said he could be the best CB in the entire draft. I was told the usual, I was stupid. Today Phillip Gaines had a better year than every 1st round CB drafted last year outside of maybe Kyle Fuller and went from being a 3rd round pick to a Chiefs shutdown starting CB. 

Johnny Manziel: I didnt like him, half the board did. Last year before the draft I was obviously wrong, today I'm right. 

 

 

And though I'm tooting my own horn here, its not out of pompousness, unfortunately the people who are always telling me that Im wrong or I'm on drugs because of what I say never come back to toot the horn for me when Im right. 

 

With that said, Mike Glennon for a 4th or 3rd rounder I believe will change the course of this team's future at the QB position for the better. We'll see if the Jets or another team trades for him. If I'm wrong, I'll definitely hear about it. If I'm right no one will ever want to talk about it. 

It's very strange that we both liked Jordan Mathews and Philip Gaines from last years draft.  Those were literally my 2 favorite players.  I didn't want to take Mathews with our first that year since I thought he'd be there at our second pick.

[smaxor5]

As far as I know, everyone thought  Mathews was going to be a top receiver, and he was. I never thought he was or should be drafted in the 1st round. Before his injury, Brandin Cooks was a large part of the saints offense and was greatly missed when he was gone. The fact that the kid got injured shouldn't lessen that fact. As far as I know, only Mike Mayock  thought  Johnny Manziel was a solid pick and top QB in the 1st round.

 

Finally, if Mike Glennon went to a team other than the NY Jets and did well it would have very little bearing on how he would have done as a Jets. The guy is simply not worth a 3rd or 4th round pick. The Bucs would be stupid not to trade him if a team offered that high a pick for that player.

 

 

I didn't think IK was much of a prospect, and I still don't. Maybe I am wrong. I preferred  Jarvis Landry in the 3rd over spending a 1st round p[ick on OBJ. It's just how I use the draft. You made some solid preferences, great  for you. Here's hoping you do so again.

Staying healthy is part of the evaluation process whether you like it or not.  One thing people were worried about with Cooks was his size (as in, is he too small to stay healthy).  The fact that he couldn't stay on the field and Jordan Mathews was a workhorse in the slot is absolutely worth talking about if you're going to compare them...by that logic we should all still be fans of the Dee Milner pick...

[Villain The Foe]

It's very strange that we both liked Jordan Mathews and Philip Gaines from last years draft.  Those were literally my 2 favorite players.  I didn't want to take Mathews with our first that year since I thought he'd be there at our second pick.

I wanted to trade down into the 20's and pick up Matthews towards the tail end of the 1st round. Given our position last year, I didnt expect Matthews to be on the board by the time our pick came around in the 2nd and that's pretty much what happened. I also wanted Phillip Gaines in the 3rd round, though I was very surprised that he even lasted that long. I figured someone would pick that guy up in the 2nd round given what he showed on film. When we got to the 3rd round and I heard "The Jets draft, Cornerback..." I seriously thought we had drafted Phillip Gaines. Then the guy completed the sentence and said "Dexter McDougal". Phillip Gaines had a great year for the Chiefs last year. I think dude will be one of the premiere shutdown Corners in a couple short years. 

[Villain The Foe]

Staying healthy is part of the evaluation process whether you like it or not.  One thing people were worried about with Cooks was his size (as in, is he too small to stay healthy).  The fact that he couldn't stay on the field and Jordan Mathews was a workhorse in the slot is absolutely worth talking about if you're going to compare them...by that logic we should all still be fans of the Dee Milner pick...

Thank you. 

[#27TheDominator]

To argue this is futile. You could be right. 

However I heard these type of things plenty times with guys that I've backed intensely. A few names just from last year 

 

Jordan Matthews:I said that he was a top 5 WR to come out of the draft and was worth a 1st rounder. I was laughed at because everyone was on the Brandin Cooks bandwagon. Matthews ended the season a top 5 WR of last years class and is currently in the middle of taking Riley Cooper's job. Meanwhile Brandin Cooks didnt finish the year.

IK Enemkpali: IK made the team and showed great promise after I was told that there was no way in hell he'd make this team. Today IK is a favorite to watch this year.

Phillip Gaines: My favorite CB in last years draft (3rd rd. pick 87 by the chiefs) and I said he could be the best CB in the entire draft. I was told the usual, I was stupid. Today Phillip Gaines had a better year than every 1st round CB drafted last year outside of maybe Kyle Fuller and went from being a 3rd round pick to a Chiefs shutdown starting CB. 

Johnny Manziel: I didnt like him, half the board did. Last year before the draft I was obviously wrong, today I'm right. 

 

 

And though I'm tooting my own horn here, its not out of pompousness, unfortunately the people who are always telling me that Im wrong or I'm on drugs because of what I say never come back to toot the horn for me when Im right. 

 

With that said, Mike Glennon for a 4th or 3rd rounder I believe will change the course of this team's future at the QB position for the better. We'll see if the Jets or another team trades for him. If I'm wrong, I'll definitely hear about it. If I'm right no one will ever want to talk about it. 

 

We all get guys right and guys wrong.  It is much easier to forget the ones we got wrong.  IIRC, you were pretty high on Colt Lyerla and I know for a fact you did not want to "waste" #18 on Odell Beckham Jr, who was "not even the best WR on his team"