Snell41 Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 When a player you're interested his the free agent market his agents work to get him the best deal possible. The market bears his value based on the offers received from teams. If a GM really wants the player, he pays a little more than other teams offer in simple terms. That's Free Agency in a nutshell. Having said that, Ryan Fitzpatrick has been on the market selling his services as a starter for months now. He has received zero offers. The market has spoken. He has greatly overstated his value. Now mind you if he fielded offers as a backup I'm sure he'd get plenty of offers. So that's your market value for the player. We should not be offering him anything more than a higher end backup QB value in the 4-5m range, and because we can imply he would likely be the starter for us, add in incentive clauses that he can earn if he is the starter. How the hell people are talking about giving the guy 10m a year or more for multiple years is mind numbingly stupid. Have you all lost your minds? The guaranteed money nothing to do with how he played last year, nor how you think he may play (that's what incentives are for), it is market value. Fitz's only leverage is retirement, and frankly if that's where his head is at then by all means go ahead. What some of you guys are advocating is to pay millions more than the market value of the player. Deals like that are what kill franchises and make them look like the senile Al Davis Raider days. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainejet Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Well, I don't see anyone claiming the Jets should pay Fitz more, do you? I don't believe anyone disagrees with what you're saying. But I do believe the Jets should reach out to Fitz agent and give Fitz an official deadline. It would be nice to see Fitz involved in things like OTA's and what not. In order for Fitz to have a chance at repeating his 2015 numbers he should be involved with all of the offseason meetings, training camp, etc. This could theoretically be prolonged right up until the day before the regular season starts. I think the Jets will not allow this thing to draw out that long. I figure right Fitz should have been given a deadline of today where OTA's start tomorrow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIJetsFan Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 14 minutes ago, Mainejet said: Well, I don't see anyone claiming the Jets should pay Fitz more, do you? I don't believe anyone disagrees with what you're saying. But I do believe the Jets should reach out to Fitz agent and give Fitz an official deadline. It would be nice to see Fitz involved in things like OTA's and what not. In order for Fitz to have a chance at repeating his 2015 numbers he should be involved with all of the offseason meetings, training camp, etc. This could theoretically be prolonged right up until the day before the regular season starts. I think the Jets will not allow this thing to draw out that long. I figure right Fitz should have been given a deadline of today where OTA's start tomorrow? Yes, almost 33% in the poll would pay Fitz 10m+. Now that IS nuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainejet Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 1 minute ago, LIJetsFan said: Yes, almost 33% in the poll would pay Fitz 10m+. Now that IS nuts Really? I did not know that. And yes that is nuts. But like I said, I still think today should be Fitz deadline to sign. OTA's start to morrow and it's important to have your starting QB around for those things. I would give Fitz an ultimatum if I were Mac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupz27 Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 The real issue is how fans forgot how bad Ryan Fitzpatrick really is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainejet Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 6 minutes ago, Lupz27 said: The real issue is how fans forgot how bad Ryan Fitzpatrick really is! Actually, the real issue is you forgetting how bad Geno sucks. You're stuck in 1st gear. Fitz fans have evolved to know that Geno is garbage and our BEST chances for winning in 2016 is with Fitz as our QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonehands Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 If you ran a poll, you could get 33% to say that boogers taste good. Smart people know he ain't worth $10 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupz27 Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 36 minutes ago, Mainejet said: Actually, the real issue is you forgetting how bad Geno sucks. You're stuck in 1st gear. Fitz fans have evolved to know that Geno is garbage and our BEST chances for winning in 2016 is with Fitz as our QB. What does Geno have to do with my opinion on Fitz? Think Geno is a career backup QB JUST like Fitz, but he is already under contract for less than 2 mill while Fitz wants 10+, and he sucks as bad if not worse then Geno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainejet Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 5 minutes ago, Lupz27 said: What does Geno have to do with my opinion on Fitz? Think Geno is a career backup QB JUST like Fitz, but he is already under contract for less than 2 mill while Fitz wants 10+, and he sucks as bad if not worse then Geno. NOT true and all you need to do is look at his 2015 stats to know that. Fitz granted has been pretty bad his entire career, but last season, however, was great effort that resulted in legitimately good numbers. Geno cannot say the same. He's had 2 seasons and he was TERRIBLE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupz27 Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Just now, Mainejet said: NOT true and all you need to do is look at his 2015 stats to know that. Fitz granted has been pretty bad his entire career, but last season, however, was great effort that resulted in legitimately good numbers. Geno cannot say the same. He's had 2 seasons and he was TERRIBLE. So if you look at 11 examples of something, and see 10 horrible years, and 1 good year you conclude that the 10 bad years were the exception not the 1? Makes sense, more great rational thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ylekram Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 1 hour ago, Snell41 said: When a player you're interested his the free agent market his agents work to get him the best deal possible. The market bears his value based on the offers received from teams. If a GM really wants the player, he pays a little more than other teams offer in simple terms. That's Free Agency in a nutshell. Having said that, Ryan Fitzpatrick has been on the market selling his services as a starter for months now. He has received zero offers. The market has spoken. He has greatly overstated his value. Now mind you if he fielded offers as a backup I'm sure he'd get plenty of offers. So that's your market value for the player. We should not be offering him anything more than a higher end backup QB value in the 4-5m range, and because we can imply he would likely be the starter for us, add in incentive clauses that he can earn if he is the starter. How the hell people are talking about giving the guy 10m a year or more for multiple years is mind numbingly stupid. Have you all lost your minds? The guaranteed money nothing to do with how he played last year, nor how you think he may play (that's what incentives are for), it is market value. Fitz's only leverage is retirement, and frankly if that's where his head is at then by all means go ahead. What some of you guys are advocating is to pay millions more than the market value of the player. Deals like that are what kill franchises and make them look like the senile Al Davis Raider days. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk you started a thread on this subject because 1 guy thinks fitz should be paid like a starter? 1 guy out of this entire message board? wouldn't it just be easier to address this 1 guy directly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ylekram Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 5 minutes ago, Lupz27 said: So if you look at 11 examples of something, and see 10 horrible years, and 1 good year you conclude that the 10 bad years were the exception not the 1? Makes sense, more great rational thinking. Fitzpatrick had 10 horrible years? really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ylekram Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 1 hour ago, LIJetsFan said: Yes, almost 33% in the poll would pay Fitz 10m+. Now that IS nuts whats nuts is your statement. the poll clearly says $8m+, which is what the jets have "reportedly" offered fitz. the op threw in $10M+ for ha-has Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainejet Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 8 minutes ago, Lupz27 said: So if you look at 11 examples of something, and see 10 horrible years, and 1 good year you conclude that the 10 bad years were the exception not the 1? Makes sense, more great rational thinking. What's even less rational is to look at two HORRIBLE years and a totally disgusting instance of selfishness and then conclude...... "That's the guy to lead this team." OVER the guy coming off career numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blocker Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Since I think the Jets ultimately will pay Fitz $10 mil (or even more?), I expect a lot of backtracking around here when that happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupz27 Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 2 minutes ago, Mainejet said: What's even less rational is to look at two HORRIBLE years and a totally disgusting instance of selfishness and then conclude...... "That's the guy to lead this team." OVER the guy coming off career numbers. If both were getting paid what they are alla G Smith $ I'd still disagree, but would get on board without a peep, but when you start talking 8, 9, 10+ million for Fitz, and under 2 million for Geno I'll take Geno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 55 minutes ago, Stonehands said: If you ran a poll, you could get 33% to say that boogers taste good. Smart people know he ain't worth $10 million. Hold on one damn second! Are we talking our own boogers... or anyone's? Makes a big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupz27 Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 2 minutes ago, Big Blocker said: Since I think the Jets ultimately will pay Fitz $10 mil (or even more?), I expect a lot of backtracking around here when that happens. That 10 million will cost you Mo Wilk, and the out lash will be so outrageous after Fitz starts the season 0-7 it might cost Macc his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangers9 Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 2 hours ago, Snell41 said: When a player you're interested his the free agent market his agents work to get him the best deal possible. The market bears his value based on the offers received from teams. If a GM really wants the player, he pays a little more than other teams offer in simple terms. That's Free Agency in a nutshell. Having said that, Ryan Fitzpatrick has been on the market selling his services as a starter for months now. He has received zero offers. The market has spoken. He has greatly overstated his value. Now mind you if he fielded offers as a backup I'm sure he'd get plenty of offers. So that's your market value for the player. We should not be offering him anything more than a higher end backup QB value in the 4-5m range, and because we can imply he would likely be the starter for us, add in incentive clauses that he can earn if he is the starter. How the hell people are talking about giving the guy 10m a year or more for multiple years is mind numbingly stupid. Have you all lost your minds? The guaranteed money nothing to do with how he played last year, nor how you think he may play (that's what incentives are for), it is market value. Fitz's only leverage is retirement, and frankly if that's where his head is at then by all means go ahead. What some of you guys are advocating is to pay millions more than the market value of the player. Deals like that are what kill franchises and make them look like the senile Al Davis Raider days. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk There is no evidence that there were zero offers. Obviously most NFL teams this season have their starters and Fitz is ours. So the market has dried up for starting Qbs. He could sign a backup deal too if he thinks the Jets are low balling him. Maybe he'd rather be a highly paid backup than a lowly paid starter. Also he got underpaid in 2015. He was signed as a backup and ended up being the starter. How's about some compensation for that one. Put yourself in the same position even though it's millions of bucks. Does the manager of a Burger King want french fry maker money and he has to run the place. Or does he expect manager money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blocker Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 25 minutes ago, Lupz27 said: That 10 million will cost you Mo Wilk, and the out lash will be so outrageous after Fitz starts the season 0-7 it might cost Macc his job. Let me guess - Smith Fan, right? There are four errors in your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangers9 Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 28 minutes ago, Lupz27 said: That 10 million will cost you Mo Wilk, and the out lash will be so outrageous after Fitz starts the season 0-7 it might cost Macc his job. The exact opposite.Mac has a problem if he goes with Geno (because of money) and the teams regresses again. Our last 4-12 who was the starting Qb,. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snell41 Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 you started a thread on this subject because 1 guy thinks fitz should be paid like a starter? 1 guy out of this entire message board? wouldn't it just be easier to address this 1 guy directly? One guy? Go through the Fitz threads buddy. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snell41 Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 There is no evidence that there were zero offers. Obviously most NFL teams this season have their starters and Fitz is ours. So the market has dried up for starting Qbs. He could sign a backup deal too if he thinks the Jets are low balling him. Maybe he'd rather be a highly paid backup than a lowly paid starter. Also he got underpaid in 2015. He was signed as a backup and ended up being the starter. How's about some compensation for that one. Put yourself in the same position even though it's millions of bucks. Does the manager of a Burger King want french fry maker money and he has to run the place. Or does he expect manager money. I clearly said he'd probably have offers as a highly paid backup. If that's what he wants then by all means. As for being paid for last years performance, the market has set that value. He had a one year deal, performed, and went to the market to see what it would net him. It's obviously not much or we'd be facing real offers and would have had to sh*t or get off the pot weeks ago. As for fry cook analogy, if he's worth more than fry cook money he'd be offered more. Look if we pay anymore in salary/SB than a high end backup we are overpaying for no reason. If we want to compensate him for performance above backup funds then put it in performance guarantees. That way if he gets injured, plays like crap, or a young guy steps up we're not paying through the nose for Fitz. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ylekram Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 14 minutes ago, Snell41 said: One guy? Go through the Fitz threads buddy. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk been thru the fitz threads. must of missed the "multiple" posters claiming Fitzpatrick should be paid like a top starter. would you care to enlighten me? just thread titles and page numbers would suffice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snell41 Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 been thru the fitz threads. must of missed the "multiple" posters claiming Fitzpatrick should be paid like a top starter 10-12 is not top starter Money, 16 seems to be the benchmark given Osweiler and Bradfords deals. There are plenty of people throwing around the 10m+ figure. Even using your 8m figure the message still stands. He's not worth that amount. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ylekram Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 2 minutes ago, Snell41 said: 10-12 is not top starter Money, 16 seems to be the benchmark given Osweiler and Bradfords deals. There are plenty of people throwing around the 10m+ figure. Even using your 8m figure the message still stands. He's not worth that amount. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 8m a year is too much? the jets gm doesn't think so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupz27 Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 22 minutes ago, Rangers9 said: The exact opposite.Mac has a problem if he goes with Geno (because of money) and the teams regresses again. Our last 4-12 who was the starting Qb,. The bigger question is who was the supporting cast for the QB that season? Geno won all 3 games he and Decker played together 100% healthy, now there is Marshall, and Forte also. Again I don't love G Smith, but when you look at Fitz body of work, and how much it will cost to get him here Geno starts looking pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snell41 Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 8m a year is too much? the jets gm doesn't think so You know that for sure? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Reports are the jets offer is near 10 million. We have no idea what's going on. Let's not pretend we do Nobody here would take back up money to start. Fitz knows woody wants him, so he is waiting the jets out This could go into august Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ylekram Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 2 minutes ago, Snell41 said: You know that for sure? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk of course not. mac and I don't talk regularly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangers9 Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 8 minutes ago, Lupz27 said: The bigger question is who was the supporting cast for the QB that season? Geno won all 3 games he and Decker played together 100% healthy, now there is Marshall, and Forte also. Again I don't love G Smith, but when you look at Fitz body of work, and how much it will cost to get him here Geno starts looking pretty good. Geno had weapons. He had Ivory. Amaro. A good O-line. I don't agree that it was a disastrous roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 14 minutes ago, Snell41 said: 10-12 is not top starter Money, 16 seems to be the benchmark given Osweiler and Bradfords deals. There are plenty of people throwing around the 10m+ figure. Even using your 8m figure the message still stands. He's not worth that amount. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk paying Osweiler and Bradford 16 + is what's stupid. Low end starter money is around 10 mil per top end is around 20mil . what's killing Fitz right now is his age and the sh*tty teams he's played for in the past. Teams simply do not want to pay Fitz starter money hoping he will fit into their system at age 33 that's dumb and that's why he's getting no offers. Teams looking to pay in the 7-10 range know its a waste of time because that's the range the Jets are currently in and its obvious Fitz will stay with the Jets if we match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cant wait Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 5 minutes ago, Rangers9 said: Geno had weapons. He had Ivory. Amaro. A good O-line. I don't agree that it was a disastrous roster. lol amaro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupz27 Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 4 minutes ago, Rangers9 said: Geno had weapons. He had Ivory. Amaro. A good O-line. I don't agree that it was a disastrous roster. Yeah playing with Nelson, Kerley, Rookie TE Amaro, John Connor, and C Ivory as targets is a good supporting cast? SMH if you think 2014 roster and coaching was good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cant wait Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 3 minutes ago, Smashmouth said: paying Osweiler and Bradford 16 + is what's stupid. Low end starter money is around 10 mil per top end is around 20mil . what's killing Fitz right now is his age and the sh*tty teams he's played for in the past. Teams simply do not want to pay Fitz starter money hoping he will fit into their system at age 33 that's dumb and that's why he's getting no offers. Teams looking to pay in the 7-10 range know its a waste of time because that's the range the Jets are currently in and its obvious Fitz will stay with the Jets if we match. Fitz's age wouldn't be an issue if he had talent. He's a bottom of the barrel starter and one lucky year doesn't change that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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