Draft Rumors

[Lupz27]

4 minutes ago, Komba said:

The dumb media played up this year's class as being awful. And the same dumb media played up this year's RB class as being good when that's not the case either.

And you can't look at an entire class either.  You don't get to pick every one of them, you get to pick 1. Again, just off of memory I can point to two awful throws/decisions that Darnold made that Trubisky absolutely never made.  Darnold also doesn't see the field as seemlessly as Trubisky and move through reads like he does.

I can't scream about it any more. The last guy I thought highly about was Mariota and he is a star.  Last year I didn't like the top two guys and still don't like the top two guys even though the media tried like crazy to heap WAY too much praise on Wentz.  I don't think Goff and Wentz are trash, I just don't see super bowl winners for different reasons.

Having a chance at Trubisky and not doing everything possible to get him is rough... Cleveland (probably because of Hue) is going to do it right and trade up from 12.  And they will trade up ahead of us because they know we are also smart enough to take him.  

Lol Trubisky would be a 3rd rounder in next years draft, he knows it, hell everyone knows it, and that's why he declared for this years draft.  IF all the guys who will declare next year did this year you better believe Trubisky goes back to NC for another year.

[Beerfish]

It wouldn't even be that bad if Buffalo sold the farm to traded up and get one of these QBs.

[Lil Woody]

12 minutes ago, Komba said:

Ugh... Frustrates me when people just point to the next draft like it's a sure thing.  There were people saying that teams should just suck for Deshaun last year.

Nobody said sure thing.  Just blue chip prospects.  This year has nothing close to the talent level of those guys. All you have to do is watch them play. 

Also I can't recall anyone ever advocating for tanking for Watson. If anything people wanted to stand pat last year and try to get Lynch.  He's a good kid, but he's not a elite prospect by any stretch. People advocate tanking for top classes like Eli/Rivers, Winston/Marriota, hell even Stafford and Vick had the calls to tank. It's about getting a SHOT at elite talent at the QB position.  Settling for best available QBs in weak classes like this one yield you the Brady Quinns and Jake Lockers and the like.  Sure there is a chance you get a Prescott or Carr.  That's always a possibility, but the odds are extremely long.  I'd much rather attack the strength of a draft than it's weakness.  This QB class looks like a weakness.

And the idea that we could just throw draft picks at the problem if we don't have the worst record is laughable.  The team who holds the #1 next year is not going to be open to trading it at any price if they need a QB. Ask the Colts what they would have accepted as draft pick compensation for the #1 pick during the Luck draft. They wouldn't have traded it for anything that didn't include prying the pick from their cold dead hands. Luck didn't pan out as perfectly as everyone expected, but the kid is insanely talented and has an outstanding future.  People thought he'd be the next Peyton Manning.  He hasn't really gotten there yet.  But those expectations were absurd. He's exactly where he should be at this point in his career and if we can find a way to tank and secure \a prospect of that caliber....we have to do it.

[Komba]

Just now, Lupz27 said:

Lol Trubisky would be a 3rd rounder in next years draft, he knows it, hell everyone knows it, and that's why he declared for this years draft.  IF all the guys who will declare next year did this year you better believe Trubisky goes back to NC for another year.

Time will tell what happens... The cool thing is we get to see who's right.

[Komba]

Just now, Lil Woody said:

Nobody said sure thing.  Just blue chip prospects.  This year has nothing close to the talent level of those guys. All you have to do is watch them play. 

Also I can't recall anyone ever advocating for tanking for Watson. If anything people wanted to stand pat last year and try to get Lynch.  He's a good kid, but he's not a elite prospect by any stretch. People advocate tanking for top classes like Eli/Rivers, Winston/Marriota, hell even Stafford and Vick had the calls to tank. It's about getting a SHOT at elite talent at the QB position.  Settling for best available QBs in weak classes like this one yield you the Brady Quinns and Jake Lockers and the like.  Sure there is a chance you get a Prescott or Carr.  That's always a possibility, but the odds are extremely long.  I'd much rather attack the strength of a draft than it's weakness.  This QB class looks like a weakness.

And the idea that we could just throw draft picks at the problem if we don't have the worst record is laughable.  The team who holds the #1 next year is not going to be open to trading it at any price if they need a QB. Ask the Colts what they would have accepted as draft pick compensation for the #1 pick during the Luck draft. They wouldn't have traded it for anything that didn't include prying the pick from their cold dead hands. Luck didn't pan out as perfectly as everyone expected, but the kid is insanely talented and has an outstanding future.  People thought he'd be the next Peyton Manning.  He hasn't really gotten there yet.  But those expectations were absurd. He's exactly where he should be at this point in his career and if we can find a way to tank and secure \a prospect of that caliber....we have to do it.

I've watched each guy play... Numerous times.  And I've watched every game of Trubisky.  I can't say it loud enough that I fully believe that he's going to be a top 10 NFL QB. Time will tell, and I'm sure some people will make some excuses for why it happened.

And I didn't want Lynch.  Lynch is not going to be a good NFL player.  Knew Hack would be trash as well.   I did feel good about Prescott having a chance but he has a long way to go before proving he's a top 10 QB in this league.  His surroundings won't be perfect forever. 

One guy I was wrong on was Carr. Didn't think at all that he'd make it work.  

Trubisky will make it work... His qualities are just perfect for the NFL. I'm certain of it. So is Cleveland apparently (and perhaps Buffalo as well)

[Tinstar]

Funny, all this supposedly over a QB that's not good enough for a team that can't find and don't have a QB .

[Lupz27]

3 minutes ago, Komba said:

Time will tell what happens... The cool thing is we get to see who's right.

I can't wait for the future press conference in November after a reporter asks Mitch why he keeps under throwing seam, and out routes for Interceptions that lead to blow out losses, and he goes on a Ryan Leaf like tangent about his name being Mitchell not Mitch, what a douche.

[Komba]

15 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

I can't wait for the future press conference in November after a reporter asks Mitch why he keeps under throwing seam, and out routes for Interceptions that lead to blow out losses, and he goes on a Ryan Leaf like tangent about his name being Mitchell not Mitch, what a douche.

He doesn't care about the name thing.. Said it afterwards. His mom was bitching about it so he tried to be nice and try it.

And with you saying he'll do those things means you've never watched him.  Or perhaps watched him but had no idea what you were looking at.

[Lupz27]

7 minutes ago, Komba said:

He doesn't care about the name thing.. Said it afterwards. His mom was bitching about it so he tried to be nice and try it.

And with you saying he'll do those things means you've never watched him.  Or perhaps watched him but had no idea what you were looking at.

I've watched plenty of Mitch on tape, he doesn't have the arm strength some think, and others are on record as saying he losses zip on those routes like I've seen on tape, you can get away with it in college, but will get eaten alive in the NFL lacking the finish that he lacks on those throws.  If your looking for another Alex Smith type QB (that will take years to develop, and groom to understand he can't make those throws) then go ahead, and run a sh*tty short passing offense with him, and be average at best GL with that.

[C Mart]

51 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

Funny, all this supposedly over a QB that's not good enough for a team that can't find and don't have a QB .

fwiw.

	Ralph Vacchiano (@RVacchianoSNY)
2017 NFL Draft Preview: @TonyPauline and I discuss the QBs in the draft, and when/where they might go ... on.sny.tv/2pgBEqN pic.twitter.com/B9Eig54Qtu

 

 

[Beerfish]

11 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

I've watched plenty of Mitch on tape, he doesn't have the arm strength some think, and others are on record as saying he losses zip on those routes like I've seen on tape, you can get away with it in college, but will get eaten alive in the NFL lacking the finish that he lacks on those throws.  If your looking for another Alex Smith type QB (that will take years to develop, and groom to understand he can't make those throws) then go ahead, and run a sh*tty short passing offense with him, and be average at best GL with that.

Funny that you are such a huge mahommes fan when he does a ton of things that he won't get away with in the pros.

[Stark]

11 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

I've watched plenty of Mitch on tape, he doesn't have the arm strength some think, and others are on record as saying he losses zip on those routes like I've seen on tape, you can get away with it in college, but will get eaten alive in the NFL lacking the finish that he lacks on those throws.  If your looking for another Alex Smith type QB (that will take years to develop, and groom to understand he can't make those throws) then go ahead, and run a sh*tty short passing offense with him, and be average at best GL with that.

Yup... this is essentially what I have been saying too. I am not a Mitch fan either

[Jet9]

18 minutes ago, Komba said:

He doesn't care about the name thing.. Said it afterwards. His mom was bitching about it so he tried to be nice and try it.

And with you saying he'll do those things means you've never watched him.  Or perhaps watched him but had no idea what you were looking at.

 

With all due respect, you're coming off like a flaming fanboy. Kid started one year. And while I do not claim to be an expert, watching those highlight reels chock full of sh*tty hip hop in the background, I do not see anything special. Looks like he knows when to tuck it and run though, so there's that I guess.

[C Mart]

Former NFL Personnel Men: Look for Titans GM to Make Move

A pair of former NFL personnel men think Titans GM Jon Robinson could make another move in this year’s NFL Draft. Either way, they believe the Titans are in a good position.

NASHVILLE, Tenn. — In his first 15 months on the job, Titans general manager Jon Robinson has proven he’s not afraid to make a move.

A pair of former NFL executives believe he’ll look to keep wheeling and dealing in this year’s NFL Draft.

“Pardon the pun, but I think he should be put in jail for stealing,’’ long-time Cowboys personnel man Gil Brandt, with a chuckle, said of Robinson, referring to the GM’s successful trades since taking over. “I think he has done a marvelous job. I think what he did last year was great.

“I do think this: I think that after the success he’s had by trading down, it wouldn’t shock me to see him trade down in this particular draft. And I think this is a draft where beyond 10 and 12 in this draft, about 40 guys all look alike. And if there’s any possibility that you can move down and pick up an extra choice by moving down and still getting a player from the same plateau, I’m not sure why you wouldn’t consider doing it.”

Phil Savage, who worked in the NFL as a coach, scout and executive for 20 years, agreed with Brandt while offering praise for Robinson. Brandt and Savage made their comments during a pre-draft conference call on Wednesday afternoon for SIRIUSXM NFL Radio.

“I think Titans fans should be really pleased with what Jon has done,’’ said Savage, a former director of player personnel with the Ravens who also spent four years as general manager of the Browns. “He’s done it with a mixture of free agency, with some sort of under-the-radar signings like (center) Ben Jones last year and defensive lineman Sylvester Williams this year. He’s done it with the draft.

“But I would say keep an eye on that choice at five. Unless there is a player they are totally in love with, most likely a defensive back in my mind – I don’t think there is a wide receiver there to take at five. I would look for them to try and be on the move from that spot. … At a certain point from (picks) 10 to 50, in essence you are getting a very similar player in many ways.

“I think (the Titans) are in a position to have a strong draft at five and 18. If they stay put they are going to get two really good players. If they move down they may have an opportunity to pick up three or four really good players.”

The Titans are scheduled to make eight selections in the upcoming NFL Draft, including two picks -- No.5 and No.18 -- in the first round. Robinson has been clear since the beginning of the offseason he’s interested in making a move.

Robinson has made five trades since taking over last January:

• The Titans swapped fourth-round picks with the Eagles in exchange for running back DeMarco Murray, who was named a Pro Bowler in 2016 after finishing third in the NFL with 1,287 rushing yards.

• Robinson traded the No.1 pick of the draft to the Los Angeles Rams for the 15th overall pick in the draft, two second-round picks (43 and 45), and a third-rounder (76) in 2016. The Titans also received the Rams’ first-round pick (fifth overall) in 2017, along with a third-round compensatory pick (100).

• The Titans traded the 15th and the 76th overall pick, along with a second-round pick in 2017, to move up in the draft to land Michigan State tackle Jack Conklin with the eight overall pick. The Titans also received the Browns' sixth-round pick, No. 176. Conklin was named All-Pro in his first season.

• On the third day of last year’s draft, the Titans traded with the Broncos and acquired cornerbacks LeShaun Sims (5th round, 157) and Kalan Reed (seventh round, 253rd) in exchange for the 176th pick of the draft and a sixth round pick in 2017.

• Last August, the Titans traded receiver Dorial Green-Beckham to the Philadelphia Eagles in exchange for versatile offensive lineman Dennis Kelly.

Brandt, vice president of player personnel for the Dallas Cowboys from 1960-1989 who now hosts “Late Hits” weeknights on SiriusXM NFL Radio, said he believes four safeties will be drafted in the first round of this year’s draft, so teams looking for a safety could get one late in the first round. Brandt said the cornerback class is loaded, which makes moving back to get a good one attractive as well.

“There’s a lot of those corners who all look very much alike,’’ Brandt said. “So whenever you can get a 2-for-1, and have two chances to win the lottery instead of one, and you get a player you think is in the same plateau, make the move.”

Savage, who as the director of college scouting and later as the director of player personnel with the Baltimore Ravens helped assemble a roster that included 12 Pro Bowlers, said the Titans will have some nice options at the receiver position.

Clemson’s Mike Williams, Western Michigan’s Corey Davis and Washington’s John Ross are considered the top receivers in this year’s draft class, but Savage thinks East Carolina’s Zay Jones could be special as well.

“Just looking at the roster, the depth chart of the Titans receiver group, you would think that they would probably favor a bigger power forward type of guy,” Savage said. “A player that I really like and I think could be a combination of outside and inside – he’s just a playmaker – is Zay Jones. He is probably more of a second-round type of choice.

“There are some receivers in this draft that are going to plug in as a third wide out when teams go to their 11 personnel with the three wide receivers on the field and I think they’ll be able to contribute something this year.”

http://www.titansonline.com/news/article-4/Former-NFL-Personnel-Men-Look-for-Titans-GM-to-Make-Move/aa520938-118a-4931-979e-3558f87f9a04

 

[Lupz27]

6 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Funny that you are such a huge mahommes fan when he does a ton of things that he won't get away with in the pros.

See I disagree Mahomes is the exception not the rule IMO like Favre, his arm talent is just so special he will get away with it more then most like Vick got away with things because of his speed, and Favre got away with it because of arm talent.

[Tinstar]

10 minutes ago, C Mart said:

fwiw

http://SNY NFL Insider Ralph Vacchiano and Draft Analyst Tony Pauline take a close look at the quarterbacks available in the 2017 NFL Draft.

 

Link doesn't work

[Komba]

25 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

I've watched plenty of Mitch on tape, he doesn't have the arm strength some think, and others are on record as saying he losses zip on those routes like I've seen on tape, you can get away with it in college, but will get eaten alive in the NFL lacking the finish that he lacks on those throws.  If your looking for another Alex Smith type QB (that will take years to develop, and groom to understand he can't make those throws) then go ahead, and run a sh*tty short passing offense with him, and be average at best GL with that.

We just don't see things the same.  Time will tell who's right... 

[Komba]

6 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

See I disagree Mahomes is the exception not the rule IMO like Favre, his arm talent is just so special he will get away with it more then most like Vick got away with things because of his speed, and Favre got away with it because of arm talent.

Mahomes doesn't have the necessary pocket awareness or mind. Favre was no brain surgeon but he was good enough with reads.  I don't think Mahomes is.  I do like Mahomes' heart, but I just don't see the pocket awareness and decisiveness that usually makes for good NFL QB's.

 

[C Mart]

4 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

Link doesn't work

oops..I added Vaccahiano tweet above. thnx

[derp]

I think best case for the Jets if they want to move down with a team looking to jump up for Trubisky is someone decides they need Trubisky enough to get up to 2, the 49ers aren't willing to drop down to 10 or 12, and the Jets are more friendly in negotiations than the Titans.

Or teams at 2-5 have guys they want enough they're not willing to move down.

If Trubisky is your guy so much you want to move up for him I don't see why you'd wait all the way until pick six and risk another team going up higher. Think a team going up to get him moves up to 5 or earlier.

[Guilhermezmc]

Howard, Foster or McCaffrey and trade back in to the 1st for Mahomes.

 

[nyjbuddy]

31 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

See I disagree Mahomes is the exception not the rule IMO like Favre, his arm talent is just so special he will get away with it more then most like Vick got away with things because of his speed, and Favre got away with it because of arm talent.

After watching Gruden's Camp with Pat Mahomes II, I had to go back to the Brett Favre one from last year.  Mahomes may not be the ideal prospect but he is going to be a very exciting player to watch.  A lot of similarities in their games and arm talent.  Mahomes success will really be determined by the coaching staff and players around him.  Favre had Holmgren, Gruden, Reid, Mariucci, Sherman, Haskell, Lovat on his coaching staff. 

[SickJetFan]

1 hour ago, Dcat said:

a couple of guys evaluated several years of draft trades (a couple of years ago, I think).  It was shocking how close the regression line came to the draft values chart.  Amazingly close.  There are always some outliers...  particularly when future year 1st rounders get thrown around for big time round 1 trade ups, but other than those, yes... I believe in it because it seems the teams use something equivalent to it if not the Jimmy Johnson thing itself.  

Then jets have the advantage over tenn in trade with Cleveland 

[Larz]

Do it

[shuler82]

Makes no sense if I'm Cleveland. 

They're going to wait until the one team desperate for a QB is on the clock at #6 to make the trade? Why wouldn't they be looking to trade to get ahead of the Jets? 

Cleveland GM  "You promise that if you're on the clock, and the #1 ranked QB is sitting there, you'll trade the pick to us?"

Mac  "Absolutely"

Cleveland GM "You're not just saying that, right? No chance you're just telling us that so that we don't attempt to trade up ahead of you at #5 and take him before you can?"

Mac "No chance"

Cleveland GM : "okay! we trust you!"

[Dcat]

23 minutes ago, SickJetFan said:

Then jets have the advantage over tenn in trade with Cleveland 

but the idea is to get in-front of the Jets even though it will cost them more. This is why they will work with Tennessee before us.  They just have to wait and see what San Francisco does.  I doubt highly the 49ers take Trubisky.  Once 49ers take Thomas, Mac should make the first move to call Cleveland.  Otherwise Cleveland will jump ahead and we won't be getting that extra round 2 pick.  

[SickJetFan]

1 minute ago, Dcat said:

but the idea is to get in-front of the Jets even though it will cost them more. This is why they will work with Tennessee before us.  They just have to wait and see what San Francisco does.  I doubt highly the 49ers take Trubisky.  Once 49ers take Thomas, Mac should make the first move to call Cleveland.  Otherwise Cleveland will jump ahead and we won't be getting that extra round 2 pick.  

But if the jets already talking to them and framing a trade you think the jets would cross them?

[shuler82]

6 minutes ago, Dcat said:

but the idea is to get in-front of the Jets even though it will cost them more. This is why they will work with Tennessee before us.  They just have to wait and see what San Francisco does.  I doubt highly the 49ers take Trubisky.  Once 49ers take Thomas, Mac should make the first move to call Cleveland.  Otherwise Cleveland will jump ahead and we won't be getting that extra round 2 pick.  

They trade up to #6, and then Buffalo moves up to #5. That's why they'll wait. 

 

 

[Dcat]

2 minutes ago, SickJetFan said:

But if the jets already talking to them and framing a trade you think the jets would cross them?

I have no idea what you are talking about. If SFO takes Thomas, Mac calls Cleveland and asks what they would offer to move up to 6.  He's not going to tell them if he's going to take Trubisky or not.  And don't forget, Cleveland needs to move ahead of Buffalo too. If Mac says he'll take the 1.12 and the 2.01 and they say no, a good counter offer would be theit 1.12, 2.20 and 3.01.  If the Browns are interested in Trubisky, they'll do it.  They have a boatload of picks.  

[win4ever]

I wanted that the 12/33 pick for a long time because it makes a ton of sense for us and the Browns.  I'm not sure the Titans want to trade down, because they are a team on the upswing that needs a couple more players on defense to really have a shot at the playoffs.  Since Mariota is still relatively cheap, it'd be better for them to go for it in the next two years with as many studs as possible.  

This is something I wondered about before, but does pick 33 have more value now than in the past with the new draft format?

With only the first round being done on one day, it gives teams a whole night to evaluate their options based on their board.  So if someone ranked say 20th on your board falls, you have the whole night to think about trading up for him, rather than 15 mins  (or one hour- I don't remember the break time in the past).  Would that increase the value of pick 33 than in the past?  I know pick 32 is much more valuable because of the option year, but does that extra time get teams to pay up more if they want to move out.  

Perfect example would be when Jack dropped last year, as well as Smith, which not many people predicted.  If you were picking say 10th in the second round, how much would you have paid to get Jack, or Smith, if they were ranked highly on your board but it was too risky with the 10th pick in the first?  So does the extra time increase value?

[Dcat]

2 minutes ago, shuler82 said:

They trade up to #6, and then Buffalo moves up to #5. That's why they'll wait. 

 

 

yup. But they did sign Taylor to essentially a 2 year deal.  They can dump him after 2017, but that's $9 million in dead cap.  Doesn't seem to be the ideal situation where you trade away picks to move up.  Other teams might be in the trade up market for trubisky too.  Arizona, Houston.  Buffalo can be calling the Jets too after Tennessee takes either Hooker or Mike Williams.  

The whole point is that Mac should be able to find a willing trade back partner.  Browns or other teams.

[Beerfish]

3 minutes ago, Dcat said:

I have no idea what you are talking about. If SFO takes Thomas, Mac calls Cleveland and asks what they would offer to move up to 6.  He's not going to tell them if he's going to take Trubisky or not.  And don't forget, Cleveland needs to move ahead of Buffalo too. If Mac says he'll take the 1.12 and the 2.01 and they say no, a good counter offer would be theit 1.12, 2.20 and 3.01.  If the Browns are interested in Trubisky, they'll do it.  They have a boatload of picks.  

In your previous post you said the idea was to 'get ahead of the jets' his response was reasonable in he said if the jets have offered to trade the pick then cleve does not have to worry about the jets.

 

In any case these things will always happen of the floor, cleve is not trading unless their favored guy is there.  They have to have a price point mind though each rung up the ladder costs then more.

[SickJetFan]

Just now, Dcat said:

I have no idea what you are talking about. If SFO takes Thomas, Mac calls Cleveland and asks what they would offer to move up to 6.  He's not going to tell them if he's going to take Trubisky or not.  And don't forget, Cleveland needs to move ahead of Buffalo too. If Mac says he'll take the 1.12 and the 2.01 and they say no, a good counter offer would be theit 1.12, 2.20 and 3.01.  If the Browns are interested in Trubisky, they'll do it.  They have a boatload of picks.  

The whole point in jets talking to Cleveland about a trade for the 6th pick prior to draft is to frame a trade that would ensure jets don't pick the qb but rather give the pick to Cleveland so not sure why they need to jump ahead of jets instead of just making the deal.....so not sure what u are talking about.   Now if they think tenn will trade out with some other team to ruin deal that has no bearing on thinking jets will take the QB.

[Beerfish]

7 minutes ago, shuler82 said:

They trade up to #6, and then Buffalo moves up to #5. That's why they'll wait. 

 

 

And the jets also wait.  There has been more than one bizarro world draft where a guy they never thought would be there suddenly is.

[Dcat]

Just now, Beerfish said:

In your previous post you said the idea was to 'get ahead of the jets' his response was reasonable in he said if the jets have offered to trade the pick then cleve does not have to worry about the jets.

 

In any case these things will always happen of the floor, cleve is not trading unless their favored guy is there.  They have to have a price point mind though each rung up the ladder costs then more.

exactly.  Same is true for other teams.  They will wait until Tenn is OTC and then wait until Jets are OTC.  Thats the whole point.  Its not a matter of any teams trying to deceive another like the poster implied.