How Bad is Ducasse, Really?

[#27TheDominator]

I'm watching the replay. Charting his plays.

First Drive RT

1.Roll out. He slides inside. No grade. Nice completion to Cumberland

2.Run up the middle. Pancakes his guy. Actually not a pancake, he just threw the guy to the floor on the outside

3. McElroy sacked by a complete breakdown on the left side. 2 three guys got in. Ducasse held his own with his guy.

4. Pass play He was getting pushed back Driven into McElroy's face. .

[gsnts725]

false starts have been a problem for him =/

[Maxman]

I'm watching the replay. Charting his plays.

First Drive RT

1.Roll out. He slides inside. No grade. Nice completion to Cumberland

2.Run up the middle. Pancakes his guy. Actually not a pancake, he just threw the guy to the floor on the outside

3. McElroy sacked by a complete breakdown on the left side. 2 three guys got in. Ducasse held his own with his guy.

4. Pass play He was getting pushed back Driven into McElroy's face. .

#3 -- who messed up on that sack. I remember going oh no and then remembering that he was on the right side (tackle) and the jail break was on the left. But I don't know whose fault it was.

[#27TheDominator]

2nd Drive:

1.Run he threw his guy outside. Cleared him from the play but didn't finish the guy off and he contributed to the tackle

2. Looked like a screen. He picked up the DE and the OLB rushed and there was a sack. The majority of the line pulled to the Jets right but I can't tell who was supposed to get the pass. Maybe the back blew it? Maybe they didn't slow the rush down? McElroy seemed too scared to look. Disaster all around, but not particularly his fault.

3.Pass. He threw his guy wide with his hands McElroy had enough time, might have needed to step up because of Ducasse but he overthrew Campbell by a decent amount. Fair job.

As usual the 4th play is a punt.

[#27TheDominator]

#3 -- who messed up on that sack. I remember going oh no and then remembering that he was on the right side (tackle) and the jail break was on the left. But I don't know whose fault it was.

Looked like the LG. It may have been Kroul or Canfield. It seemed like the G helped inside, the T had a man outside and they just blitzed the gap and neither of them moved. Maybe it was a delayed blitz after they had selected their men.

[Maxman]

I don't think Kroul was on the field then. I am not 100% sure though. I didn't tape it. I am curious because I want every player that was remotely involved in that play to be cut. Immediately.

[#27TheDominator]

3rd Drive By this time the chatroom was abuzz with how bad Ducasse is and how he should be cut. IMO this is simply because nobody knows anybody else's name and they are all UDFA so they are allows to suck

Moved to LT

1. Run play. He mauled his guy and dove him back but the tackle was made behind him

2. Inside Run. He pushed outside. Looked a little lost. Didn't contribute to th eplay ond way or the other.

3. Pass play He tossed his guy on the floor. Guy tried a wide rush and he pushed him in the helmet and dumped him. There was a breakdown inside and it looked like they hit McElroy's foot as he threw ball was tipped at the line.

PUNT Fumbled RIght back at it

[#27TheDominator]

@LT

1. Blocked outside i was a rollout right complete to Mulligan so his job was adequate but meaningless. First Down!

2. Pass handled the outside rush. caught by Campbell. 7yards This is apparently the play where McElroy hit his hand on the helmet of the RG and screwed his thumb up. Probably very badly.

3. 2nd and 3. Run. He did not hold up at the point of attack. Tried to toss his guy the G got crushed too, so he basically threw his guy into Powell for the tackle. Bad Job

4, Pass He handled the speed rush. Not particularly well. He was pushing the guy outside and there was enough time for Willy to complete the TD to SMcKnight.

That's 4 drives and he has driven his man to the ground as many times as he's done anything wrong. If I were grading him so far it would be B-/C+

[Ghost]

Honestly, I'd take Adrian Jones over him.

[#27TheDominator]

I don't think Kroul was on the field then. I am not 100% sure though. I didn't tape it. I am curious because I want every player that was remotely involved in that play to be cut. Immediately.

Taylor, Canfield or Kroul. Taylor played LG next when Ducasse was at LT. Not sure if that makes it more or less likely he was at LG then. Taylor is normally a center, so it wouldn't be surprising that he or Kroul would blow an assignment. I think my Dad taped it and I'm going out on the Island tomorrow. I will try to check.

1. LT Wild Cat to other side. good block , but useless. Good gain, but holding on Mulligan

2. Run McKnight. I lost Ducasse, who sarted playing RT on the next play. McKnight didn't go far the play was weak

3. He's now playing RT again. Pass he mauled his guy pretty good.

4. Pass. Handled his guy well. Stunt went outside him, but there was plenty of time for the G and McKnight to get over. Willy tripped on the carpet and it was a sack.

I find it hard to believe they would swap hiim side to side on a drive, but I can swear he was at LT for the wildcat play. Maybe I made a mistake. If he was at RT he must have done a good job because they play rolled..

[#27TheDominator]

Honestly, I'd take Adrian Jones over him.

First of all, Adrian Jones was a starting tackle on a playoff team and he started for a number of years. We would probably all be happy if our project were at that level right now. Second, watch him. I'm almost to the half and he's had about 3 bad plays and zero very bad plays unless you want to count the one running play.

RT 00:52 left

1. Pass play. NOthing. CBS botched the coverage showing Vince Young limp. WIlly got the pas off so it couldn't be too bad.

2. False start. That was all on him

3. Pass play. wide rush he pushed the guy outside but it seemed WIlly was in trouble. OTOH, WIlly stepped up and threw a 20 yard pass to Kerley.

4. Short pass to Joe McKnight. Quick hitter. I saw very little good or bad

5. False start again. That is all him. The first time I saw the game I thought Landolt jumped but I think he jumped because of Ducasse

6. Pass play. WIde rush destroyed his guy. Threw him on the floor almost hit Willy in the feet while he stepped up. After dumping his guy picked up an LB too.

7. Pass picked up and absorbed the rush well. Nice pass to CUmberland.

8. Pass. Absorbed the rush. Complete to Cumberland.

Folk missed a long FG. HALFTIME

[BornJetsFan1983]

penalty king Ducasse

[#27TheDominator]

Second Half@LT

1. Reverse. He ran downfield Depalma got 8 yards

2. Run. He chipped his guy, but the blocking scheme seemed odd. He seemed to do fine, but the play was a bust 2-3 yards and Joe McKnight spit it up.

[Bleedin Green]

Thanks for doing all of this Dom. Despite the constant whining going on in the chat room I really was not seeing what people were complaining so much about tonight, because I didn't see him doing anything real horrible outside of a couple of false starts. Granted I wasn't watching the guy every play, so it's cool to see this kind of breakdown.

Frankly, sometimes I don't get where some of these things are coming from. Ducasse had an admittedly horrid game against the Texans, and has played significantly better in every game since then, but it's as if most people around here don't care about that and the moment the Texans game ended completely stopped watching his play and kept repeating over and over how he was the worst player ever. I'm by no means convinced that he's the answer on the OL or will ever gain a starting job, and he's got a long way to go, but I'm also not going to say everything the guy does is terrible because of how he played 4 games ago. To be honest, since then, over these past 3 games, he's probably been the Jets best backup OL, for whatever that's worth.

[#27TheDominator]

Thanks for doing all of this Dom. Despite the constant whining going on in the chat room I really was not seeing what people were complaining so much about tonight, because I didn't see him doing anything real horrible outside of a couple of false starts. Granted I wasn't watching the guy every play, so it's cool to see this kind of breakdown.

Frankly, sometimes I don't get where some of these things are coming from. Ducasse had an admittedly horrid game against the Texans, and has played significantly better in every game since then, but it's as if most people around here don't care about that and the moment the Texans game ended completely stopped watching his play and kept repeating over and over how he was the worst player ever. I'm by no means convinced that he's the answer on the OL or will ever gain a starting job, and he's got a long way to go, but I'm also not going to say everything the guy does is terrible because of how he played 4 games ago. To be honest, since then, over these past 3 games, he's probably been the Jets best backup OL, for whatever that's worth.

The thing that makes me happy is that the closer I am looking the better I feel about him. He seems to use his hands alot against the speed rush and he played OT all night so I would feel more comfortable if needed to get some time there. I would expect him to do much better with better/more consistent linemates. The false starts were his downfall tonight, but that may have been his first 2 minute drill and they didn't really hurt too much.

[#27TheDominator]

Tannenbaum is in the booth so they will probably make me miss half the plays.

LT

1. Pass rode his guy way wide. RT let his guy in and Willy hit as he threw. Incomplete to Campbell.

2. Run smacked his guy pretty good run was off RG and Powell put the ball on the floor.

3. Pass. Rush ran right into him and drove him back. He wrapped the guy up. Might have been a hold. Willy rolled away and threw to Josh Baker. Incomplete -this was the play that looked almost like a simultaneous catch. Worst job he's done in a while.

[#27TheDominator]

LT

1. Run he kicked his guy out well but Powell didn't get much going in the middle

2. Run stood his guy up, but again tough sledding for Powell

3. Pass picked up the rush well stood the guy up and stopped him cold. Incomplete to Josh Baker short of the 1st down anyway.

[#27TheDominator]

Now he's out. I'd liek to see him playing some guard. I'll have to go back and watch some of those to see how his drive blocking looks because you don't see much of that with him at tackle.

[Smashmouth]

Now put in Mario Williams or any starting defense and I bet you would find some real issues. Hes basicly playing aganist players who are fighting for their football lives so its hard to evaluate in that situation. What he did vs the Texans was more like what you might see if this kid ever touches the field during the season.

[haggis]

Tanny is a UMass guy, have to believe there was a little sentimental pick with Ducasse.

[Maxman]

Damn #27 thanks for breaking that many plays....

[bitonti]

im glad this thread got started. Vlad does a good job, and will be the first man in at every OL position except center. He will be the 6th OL, swing tackle, and possibly tackle eligible OL. After a year or two in that role he should be ready for more. Btw he looked very good at LT his old college position... Vlad will be fine.

[Klecko73isGod]

Thanks for doing all of this Dom. Despite the constant whining going on in the chat room I really was not seeing what people were complaining so much about tonight, because I didn't see him doing anything real horrible outside of a couple of false starts. Granted I wasn't watching the guy every play, so it's cool to see this kind of breakdown.

Frankly, sometimes I don't get where some of these things are coming from. Ducasse had an admittedly horrid game against the Texans, and has played significantly better in every game since then, but it's as if most people around here don't care about that and the moment the Texans game ended completely stopped watching his play and kept repeating over and over how he was the worst player ever. I'm by no means convinced that he's the answer on the OL or will ever gain a starting job, and he's got a long way to go, but I'm also not going to say everything the guy does is terrible because of how he played 4 games ago. To be honest, since then, over these past 3 games, he's probably been the Jets best backup OL, for whatever that's worth.

I think a lot of fans have a very bad habit of letting their first impressions of a player inform their opinion completely and never really give the guy a break after that. Ducasse had a bad preseason game and almost got two QBs killed. For some, that seems to mean he can never be good. Forget him ever developing into a good player. He is worthless and will always suck even if he develops into a 10-time Pro Bowler.

These are pretty much the same people who think Brett Ratliff never got a fair shot to start.

[Obrien2Toon]

great thread, and thanks for putting the time in to put it down.

I was mostly watching the Wisconsin and Rutgers games.

And figured Ducasse was brutal again after seeing most of the other posts.

[JerryK]

I like this analysis of Ducasse, thanks Dominator for breaking down those drives. I have a few questions about guys who seem to be FULL of false starts.

-Is it simply a mental error? If so, disregard the next questions.

-Do repeated false starts show us a player admitting weakness?

----Is he only able to maul his man when he gets a time advantage? i.e. He can't beat them with strength/skill?

[#27TheDominator]

Now put in Mario Williams or any starting defense and I bet you would find some real issues. Hes basicly playing aganist players who are fighting for their football lives so its hard to evaluate in that situation. What he did vs the Texans was more like what you might see if this kid ever touches the field during the season.

Gee, no quality starting LTs have trouble with Mario WIlliams, do they? Of course the level of competition is lower, but he is not supposed to be mauling starters yet and from the chat room you would think he was getting crushed on every play. He wasn't. I wouldn't say he was dominating though he physically dumped his man to ground at least 3 times, but he generally held his own.

I like this analysis of Ducasse, thanks Dominator for breaking down those drives. I have a few questions about guys who seem to be FULL of false starts.

-Is it simply a mental error? If so, disregard the next questions.

-Do repeated false starts show us a player admitting weakness?

----Is he only able to maul his man when he gets a time advantage? i.e. He can't beat them with strength/skill?

In this case they both came during the 2 minute drive a couple of plays apart. They were also from the shotgun which meant he was playing RT in a 2 point stance and further off the line. He might have been uncomfortable there or having some trouble with the snap count, not being able to look in at the ball, etc. I don't think it is a sign of weakness, Klecko used to do it constantly. After the second one you could hear Vlad scream "****!" and he demonstrably upset. The following play he tossed his guy down on the floor like a rag doll. Some guys are like mistake hitters in baseball. They are on the edge with the count and sometimes they guess wrong. I don't think that's Vlad, I just think he's inexperienced and trying to get an edge.

[slats]

Bump.

Good read for the Ducasse haters.

[JiFtheOracle]

Nice breakdown Dom. Vlad is fine, Wilson is fine...we just have a bunch of fans who think they know more than they do.

[faba]

It is not helping him switching back from tackle to guard- we need to keep him at guard seems best suited by far for that

[#27TheDominator]

It is not helping him switching back from tackle to guard- we need to keep him at guard seems best suited by far for that

Disagree. I understand why you say that Faba, but they have no viable backup tackle. I think the plan was for Turner to be the backup G/C and Vlad to be the backup T. The problem is that with the truncated camp and Moore, Mangold and then Turner getting hurt, Vlad hasn't had the chance to concentrate at T. He may be better suited to G, but it is more importanto the team that he play T.

[#27TheDominator]

Disagree. I understand why you say that Faba, but they have no viable backup tackle. I think the plan was for Turner to be the backup G/C and Vlad to be the backup T. The problem is that with the truncated camp and Moore, Mangold and then Turner getting hurt, Vlad hasn't had the chance to concentrate at T. He may be better suited to G, but it is more importanto the team that he play T.

I was going to edit it, but I like importanto! I don't mind quoting my own post since that is what I did for 60% of this thread anyway.

[JetsFanInDenver]

Thats what i do not understand why there are so many Ducasse h8r's!

Granted Vlad was pretty awful in the first pre-season game. But over the pre-season he has shown signs of improvement.

Granted yesterday he was playing against the 2nd/3rd stringers and its was not a Pro-Bowl worthy performance. But there is noticeable improvement. Will be interesting to see how he fares over the season. My guess is he improves as the season goes on.

P.S: Would like to know what people thought of Slauson at this time last year!

[THE ILK]

P.S: Would like to know what people thought of Slauson at this time last year!

You don't remember the Faneca fellatio?

[Smashmouth]

Gee, no quality starting LTs have trouble with Mario WIlliams, do they? Of course the level of competition is lower, but he is not supposed to be mauling starters yet and from the chat room you would think he was getting crushed on every play. He wasn't. I wouldn't say he was dominating though he physically dumped his man to ground at least 3 times, but he generally held his own.

Dom I hear you.... most LT's will have issues with Williams but the rookie on the Texans raped Ducasse at RT then they moved him to LG and he got raped there as well vs first teamers. Seriously would you be comfortable with Ducasse coming in during the regular season if something happened to Hunter or Slauson ? One really bad O-Lineman can blow up an entire offense and thats just straight up. Defensive coordinators would attack this kid relentlessly and Sanchez would be taking hits at an alarming rate or running for his life.

Im not saying completely give up on the kid Im saying we need to get someone thats a capable back up, now I think the Jets are taking way to many chances with a SB caliber team that window only stays open for so long.

[Smashmouth]

Thats what i do not understand why there are so many Ducasse h8r's!

Granted Vlad was pretty awful in the first pre-season game. But over the pre-season he has shown signs of improvement.

Granted yesterday he was playing against the 2nd/3rd stringers and its was not a Pro-Bowl worthy performance. But there is noticeable improvement. Will be interesting to see how he fares over the season. My guess is he improves as the season goes on.

P.S: Would like to know what people thought of Slauson at this time last year!

Listen to what your saying. You acknowledge he was terrible vs first teamers (which he was) and that he didnt do that great vs 2nd and 3rd teamers but he improved. So that being said exactly how did he improve ? During the season not only will he have to deal with starters but he will have to deal with Defensive coordinators exploiting his every weakness. You confortable with that or do we need to get another lineman in here ? Like right freakin now ! Lets get seriosu here guys this is not a rebuilding team here this is a team built to win now Imagine this kid playing O-Line vs the Steelers in the playoffs ....come on man.

So yeah maybe some improvement but still light years away.