Morrissey Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 the best player on a bad team can win the "Ted Williams Award" ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrissey Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Since Pedro didn't win the MVP in 1999, then no pitcher should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 I'm voting Verlander. The hot argument is this he's gotten 732 outs as a pitcher while the most PAs for a player in the AL is 702. I like it so I use it. Here! Now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gun Of Bavaria Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Verlander is the MVP. Isn't even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Verlander is the MVP. Isn't even close. No he's not. And it isnt really even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn306 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 I said Verlander a month ago and I am going to stay with him. I know alot of folks don't consider a pitcher to be an MVP candidate but to me without Verlander the Tigers probably don't make the post season. 10-0 in his last 10 starts 24 wins this season ERA under 2.30 Teams are hitting 190 against him this year. He should get Cy Young and MVP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonEJet Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Verlander is the MVP. Isn't even close. Why? Because you're a Tigers fan? No he shouldn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 I said Verlander a month ago and I am going to stay with him. I know alot of folks don't consider a pitcher to be an MVP candidate but to me without Verlander the Tigers probably don't make the post season. 10-0 in his last 10 starts 24 wins this season ERA under 2.30 Teams are hitting 190 against him this year. He should get Cy Young and MVP They don't make the post season without Cabrera either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 I said Verlander a month ago and I am going to stay with him. I know alot of folks don't consider a pitcher to be an MVP candidate but to me without Verlander the Tigers probably don't make the post season. 10-0 in his last 10 starts 24 wins this season ERA under 2.30 Teams are hitting 190 against him this year. He should get Cy Young and MVP As good as Verlander's been, he's not close to being as dominant as Pedro was in 1999 and nobody even suggested Pedro should be MVP that year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 As good as Verlander's been, he's not close to being as dominant as Pedro was in 1999 and nobody even suggested Pedro should be MVP that year. Right, because he finished with the most 1st place votes and second overall in a close vote in which two asswipes left him off their ballot completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Right, because he finished with the most 1st place votes and second overall in a close vote in which two asswipes left him off their ballot completely. I just don't remember anyone clamoring for him like they are for Verlander this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 As good as Verlander's been, he's not close to being as dominant as Pedro was in 1999 and nobody even suggested Pedro should be MVP that year. So Bautista is ruled out because he is on a bad team even though he has the best numbers, but Verlander is discounted because his numbers don't rival someone from 1999? Do you mean to contradict yourself or are you accidentally wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 So Bautista is ruled out because he is on a bad team even though he has the best numbers, but Verlander is discounted because his numbers don't rival someone from 1999? Do you mean to contradict yourself or are you accidentally wrong? How is that a contradiction? They are two separate issues. And you should be on my side because I defended a Red Sox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 How is that a contradiction? They are two separate issues. And you should be on my side because I defended a Red Sox. True, but I am not on your side in this one. You argued Bautista's numbers didn't matter because his team was awful. I would argue it doesn't matter how historically great Verlander's numbers are because of how valuable he has actually been to his team. When Pedroia won he didn't have the best numbers that season or historically, but he meant so much to his team, he was the choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 True, but I am not on your side in this one. You argued Bautista's numbers didn't matter because his team was awful. I would argue it doesn't matter how historically great Verlander's numbers are because of how valuable he has actually been to his team. When Pedroia won he didn't have the best numbers that season or historically, but he meant so much to his team, he was the choice. Pedrioa had great numbers from a position that generally doesn't carry great offensive production. That's why he won...not because he "meant so much to his team." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 True, but I am not on your side in this one. You argued Bautista's numbers didn't matter because his team was awful. I would argue it doesn't matter how historically great Verlander's numbers are because of how valuable he has actually been to his team. When Pedroia won he didn't have the best numbers that season or historically, but he meant so much to his team, he was the choice. You just made my argument for Granderson, thank you. I'm philosophically opposed to starting pitchers winning the MVP. Only appearing in 33-36 games can't make you nearly as impactful as an everyday player. Plus they have the Cy Young, which is pretty much the MVP for pitchers (which is why CC got robbed last year, I don't give a rats a$$ what Hernandez's ERA was.) If a pitcher is going to win it, it should be a closer. Closing out half or more of your team's wins is unquestionable more valuable to me than winning as many as 25 games. I hate Dennis Eckersly but his MVP was well deserved. Without him, that A's team wouldn't have gone anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Pedrioa had great numbers from a position that generally doesn't carry great offensive production. That's why he won...not because he "meant so much to his team." Then why didn't Cano win last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Then why didn't Cano win last year? The year Pedrioa won there really was no clear cut guy. Hamilton was by far the best player last year. Sort of like Bautista is this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 I just don't remember anyone clamoring for him like they are for Verlander this year. Well, I suppose that your recollection of what popular opinion was 12 years ago trumps the actual voting results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 they have the Cy Young, which is pretty much the MVP for pitchers (which is why CC got robbed last year, I don't give a rats a$$ what Hernandez's ERA was.. No, the Cy Young award is for the best pitcher. If you want to penalize pitchers for only affecting the outcome of 1/5 of their team's games with respect to MVP consideration, then you can't penalize them for lack of run support or what happens during the 4/5 of games when they sit on the bench and eat sunflower seeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Well, I suppose that your recollection of what popular opinion was 12 years ago trumps the actual voting results. Never said it did, I just don't remember it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 No, the Cy Young award is for the best pitcher. If you want to penalize pitchers for only affecting the outcome of 1/5 of their team's games with respect to MVP consideration, then you can't penalize them for lack of run support or what happens during the 4/5 of games when they sit on the bench and eat sunflower seeds. Who said you could? Hernandez had a .500 record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Who said you could? Hernandez had a .500 record. Cmon, Kleck....wins are a terrible statistic for gauging a pitchers performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Cmon, Kleck....wins are a terrible statistic for gauging a pitchers performance. Then Verlander getting 25 wins is meaningless and should have no impact on the MVP race. GRANDERSON IS THE MVP!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Who said you could? Hernandez had a .500 record. AL SP Run support in 2010 (Qualified pitchers) 1. Phil Hughes (9.60) 7. CC Sabathia (7.31) . . . 43 (and dead last). Felix Hernandez (3.75) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Then Verlander getting 25 wins is meaningless and should have no impact on the MVP race. AL SP Run support in 2011 (Qualified pitchers) 2. Ivan Nova (8.94) 12. CC Sabathia (6.98) . . 30 (out of 43). Justin Verlander (5.53) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Then Verlander getting 25 wins is meaningless and should have no impact on the MVP race. GRANDERSON IS THE MVP!!! There isnt a pitcher this year that should win the MVP. Verlander would have won the Cy Young with 15 wins(although Weaver is close) Bautista is the MVP because he's having easily the best season...but we've been over this already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 There isnt a pitcher this year that should win the MVP. Verlander would have won the Cy Young with 15 wins(although Weaver is close) Bautista is the MVP because he's having easily the best season...but we've been over this already. WRONG!!!! Bautista is the Hank Aaron Award winner. Curtis Granderson is the MVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Curtis Granderson is the MVP. A .270 hitter who ranks 4th in Offensive WAR and 5th in OPS while batting 2nd for a team that ranks 2nd in the league in runs and OBP.... not impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 A .270 hitter who ranks 4th in Offensive WAR and 5th in OPS while batting 2nd for a team that ranks 2nd in the league in runs and OBP.... not impressed. Throw all of your nerd stats out the window. Granderson has produced 212 runs this year. Is anyone even close? Runs win games my friend. Sabremetric this MFer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Throw all of your nerd stats out the window. Granderson has produced 212 runs this year. Is anyone even close? Runs win games my friend. Sabremetric this MFer! BTW, Pedroia only produced 183 runs in his MVP year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Throw all of your nerd stats out the window. Granderson has produced 212 runs this year. Is anyone even close? Runs win games my friend. Sabremetric this MFer! OPS isn't even close to a nerd stat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 OPS isn't even close to a nerd stat. Does OPS wins games like run production does? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Does OPS wins games like run production does? All a batter can control is getting on base. Getting on base is the most valuable thing a player can do. Runs created is a team driven stat. So yes, yes it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Throw all of your nerd stats out the window. Granderson has produced 212 runs this year. Is anyone even close? Runs win games my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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