Do The Jets Lack Heart?

[MikeJetsWord]

During the game this weekend, Kris Jenkins was commenting on the game on Facebook as he was watching, and this one comment really hit me, mostly because he was a member of that locker room and really knows what it is like... Anyway, he said:

"Jets got rid of the players with the heart. End of story!!!!"

That really got me thinking... If you take a look at some of the players we lost this offseason:

Kris Jenkins, Tony Richardson, Damien Woody, Braylon Edwards, James Ihedigbo, Shaun Ellis etc.. These were definitely some players that played with fire and passion. Now heart doesn't make up for talent, but when you have a coach that coaches with tons of emotion, you need someone else to convey that emotion in the locker room. Bart can do it, but he is just one person. I think you can see the difference in the way that we play-- and I believe we are missing a lot of leadership with these types of players gone.

Now I don't think that is the only reason we are bad-- there are certainly many reasons from lack of depth and key injuries, but I think it is a one of the ways we are fundamentally different than last year, and its absolutely a regression.

[Larz]

if tanny didn't roll the dice not having any quality o-line depth we're not having this discussion. when you can't run it, the O loses swagger and it just spirals from there

[JiFtheOracle]

if tanny didn't roll the dice not having any quality o-line depth we're not having this discussion. when you can't run it, the O loses swagger and it just spirals from there

This is kind of where I'm at with it. I was defending Tanny and I still dont think you could have predicted some of the outcomes, but I agree. If this Oline is playing at the level of that past couple years we arent having this conversation. The Oakland game was an anomaly defensively. That wont happen again. This OL is a mess though.

[Integrity28]

Ihedigbo and T-Rich were definitely locker room guys, D-Wood too I think.

Ellis wasn't from all I can remember ever reading about him. Jenkins, well... I don't really count him, was he ever even in the locker room? Edwards is gone because he was the same selfish sorta dude as K Rhodes.

The 3 guys mentioned above are about the only "heart" guys we lost.

Meh.

[Larz]

Ihedigbo and T-Rich were definitely locker room guys, D-Wood too I think.

Ellis wasn't from all I can remember ever reading about him. Jenkins, well... I don't really count him, was he ever even in the locker room? Edwards is gone because he was the same selfish sorta dude as K Rhodes.

The 3 guys mentioned above are about the only "heart" guys we lost.

Meh.

and t-rich and woody are out of the league. so we're down to ihedigbo

[Midget Love 20]

To a degree I'll agree with big Jenks bc losing guys like Dig, Cotchery, Ellis, T-Rich and Woody will def hurt us. All of those guys left for differing reasons and it seems that there isn't the same chemistry in the locker room as other years. But it doesn't help that our o-line can't open up holes and we've got 0 offensive identity

[JiFtheOracle]

Ihedigbo and T-Rich were definitely locker room guys, D-Wood too I think.

Ellis wasn't from all I can remember ever reading about him. Jenkins, well... I don't really count him, was he ever even in the locker room? Edwards is gone because he was the same selfish sorta dude as K Rhodes.

The 3 guys mentioned above are about the only "heart" guys we lost.

Meh.

Jim Leonhard has enough heart to go around for everyone.

[stoicsentry]

Do the Jets lack heart? No.

Mangold, Revis and Scott for starters.

[Jetsfan80]

Jim Leonhard has enough heart to go around for everyone.

And grit, don't forget about grit. Lunchpail. Gym rat. Student of the game.

[RutgersJetFan]

Of course they do. Bottom line is if you're going to switch out the character/locker room guys, you do it in the interest of talent, you don't move laterally for guys who bring the same skillsets and check out mid-game. The Plax experiment in particular is quite the kick in the dick right now. He didn't pull a Haynesworth on Sunday, but for a WR that's about as close as you can get.

[#27TheDominator]

Of course they do. Bottom line is if you're going to switch out the character/locker room guys, you do it in the interest of talent, you don't move laterally for guys who bring the same skillsets and check out mid-game. The Plax experiment in particular is quite the kick in the dick right now. He didn't pull a Haynesworth on Sunday, but for a WR that's about as close as you can get.

Exactly what "character/locker room guys" did they "switch out"? Burress is a dog, but he replaces Edwards, so that's a push. Those other guys were ollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllld. That's why they are gone.

[RutgersJetFan]

Exactly what "character/locker room guys" did they "switch out"? Burress is a dog, but he replaces Edwards, so that's a push. Those other guys were ollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllld. That's why they are gone.

Everyone the OP mentioned, not playing semantics with the rest. Edwards was nowhere near the disaster that Plax is. Not even close and that is nowhere near a push. Defenses aren't accounting for him at all and he quit on at least 3-4 balls on Sunday that he literally had dead to rights.

Bottom line is that the offense is actually worse than it was during the 2009 season. Worse. That is unreal. Especially considering that offense wasn't that good either. You can go ARod and list names if you want, but the results say differently. Reality says there's been one real upgrade and that's Santonio, and his production this year speaks volumes about the other guys on the field. That's about it. To even try and argue that personnel doesn't play a part in this at all is just stupid.

[bLguerriero1]

if ur in the nfl... u have heart

[RutgersJetFan]

if ur in the nfl... u have heart

[bLguerriero1]

if ur in the nfl, u had heart at one time

[Jets62]

After watching the first 4 games, lacking heart has nothing to do with it. They look like a team that was just put together over-nite. This problem comes from the top, but Rex Ryan brainwashed Tanney into thinking they are the best team in football. I cant count how many times Rex told anybody who would listen he took the Jets to 2 AFC Championships. He sat on his laurels, brimming with pride& over-confidence, instead of upgrading the team& strive to get better. Total lack of coaching&preperation is hurting this team,not lack of heart.

[#27TheDominator]

Everyone the OP mentioned, not playing semantics with the rest. Edwards was nowhere near the disaster that Plax is. Not even close and that is nowhere near a push. Defenses aren't accounting for him at all and he quit on at least 3-4 balls on Sunday that he literally had dead to rights.

Bottom line is that the offense is actually worse than it was during the 2009 season. Worse. That is unreal. Especially considering that offense wasn't that good either. You can go ARod and list names if you want, but the results say differently. Reality says there's been one real upgrade and that's Santonio, and his production this year speaks volumes about the other guys on the field. That's about it. To even try and argue that personnel doesn't play a part in this at all is just stupid.

Oh please. The results are worse so they must not have any heart! Edwards was a ******* total dog for most of 2009. So it's not a push, Plaxico has been worse. Big deal. The offensive line has sucked. Is that heart? I don't think so.

In 2009 they had two, count 'em two, 3 game losing streaks. In 2010 they put up 9 points against the Patriots and Dolphins and those teams both had sh*tty defenses. They got shut out by the Packers. This sh*t will play out and they will get better or they won't, but they aren't exactly in unchartered territory here.

[RutgersJetFan]

In 2009 they had two, count 'em two, 3 game losing streaks. In 2010 they put up 9 points against the Patriots and Dolphins and those teams both had sh*tty defenses. They got shut out by the Packers. This sh*t will play out and they will get better or they won't, but they aren't exactly in unchartered territory here.

What is it exactly that you're arguing here anyways? That this is acceptable? This has been a good enough amount of time that this shouldn't be an issue anymore. They should be in uncharted territory. They should be more talented, deeper, and better, but they're not. They're thinner, and thus far, worse. That is unacceptable and reflective of a sh*t job. The players that were brought in for replacements for the ones they lost aren't better and for the most part, play and act like douchebags on the field. If you want to get all pissy because someone refers to that as "heart," I don't know what to tell you. But it's synonymic bullsh*t the same.

[stoicsentry]

What is it exactly that you're arguing here anyways? That this is acceptable? This has been a good enough amount of time that this shouldn't be an issue anymore. They should be in uncharted territory. They should be more talented, deeper, and better, but they're not. They're thinner, and thus far, worse. That is unacceptable and reflective of a sh*t job. The players that were brought in for replacements from the ones they lost aren't better and for the most part, play and act like douchebags on the field. If you want to get all pissy because someone refers to that as "heart," I don't know what to tell you. But it's synonymic bullsh*t the same.

Wow, way to not give the FO the benefit of the doubt for winning 4 playoff games in the past 2 years...

[TNJet]

No they lack a pro bowl center and a good offensive coordinator at the moment.

[jason423]

The problem for Jenkins making such a comment is the fact that almost every player he is discussing was on the team that collapsed in 2008 and the one that nearly collapsed in 2009. So its not like those guys were out there busting their asses when the chips were down either. They were losing to inferior teams in spectacular fashion. If he is talking about losing guys who dont quit on a play then maybe hes right. The WRs quit badly on the interceptions. Westerman quit on the TD run. But its a few players here and there on a few plays. The issues with the Jets boil down to the fact that Rex thinks he has two different teams under him. He has his defense and he has those other guys that he hopes dont screw it up for his defense. He expects the offense to more or less police themselves under a young coach with absolutely no head coaching experience. Then when the offense plays badly he gets all mad at certain guys for almost no reason at all. They should have seen some of these problems coming in the preseason. I went to one practice and on that day it was apparent that the receivers needed a ton of work with Sanchez and that the line stunk. The other reports from the rest of the camp and the garbage that we saw in the preseason games said the same thing. But Rex just seems to pay such limited attention to that side of the ball that nothing was addressed. Im sure the excuses will be that they couldnt go use the dorms and bond, but the reality is that they are completely unprepared on one side of the football and on the other side teams finally realized its pointless to waste downs throwing anywhere near Revis. That has nothing to do with heart it has to do with one of the few negatives Rex has and one that he sadly never seems to want to change.

[#27TheDominator]

What is it exactly that you're arguing here anyways? That this is acceptable? This has been a good enough amount of time that this shouldn't be an issue anymore. They should be in uncharted territory. They should be more talented, deeper, and better, but they're not. They're thinner, and thus far, worse. That is unacceptable and reflective of a sh*t job. The players that were brought in for replacements for the ones they lost aren't better and for the most part, play and act like douchebags on the field. If you want to get all pissy because someone refers to that as "heart," I don't know what to tell you. But it's synonymic bullsh*t the same.

I'm pissy because you guys are acting like it's the end of the world when the team has a couple of sh*tty games. Do you know how many teams haven't looked like complete sh*t? The Ravens looked like pigs against the Titans. The Steelers against the Ravens. The Giants against the Redskins and for much of the Cardinals game. The Eagles have looked horrific almost the entire year. The Packers are the only team that is rolling well right now and they looked like sh*t plenty of last year before they went on a roll and won the whole thing. The Jets are playing poorly. They are dealing with injuries, camp was short and they have to make some adjustments. I'm not happy with the way they are playing but this whole George Steinbrenner of the 1990's attitude is ridiculous. Fire this guy! Cut that guy! The GM sucks we aren't undefeated!

[RutgersJetFan]

I'm pissy because you guys are acting like it's the end of the world when the team has a couple of sh*tty games. Do you know how many teams haven't looked like complete sh*t? The Ravens looked like pigs against the Titans. The Steelers against the Ravens. The Giants against the Redskins and for much of the Cardinals game. The Eagles have looked horrific almost the entire year. The Packers are the only team that is rolling well right now and they looked like sh*t plenty of last year before they went on a roll and won the whole thing. The Jets are playing poorly. They are dealing with injuries, camp was short and they have to make some adjustments. I'm not happy with the way they are playing but this whole George Steinbrenner of the 1990's attitude is ridiculous. Fire this guy! Cut that guy! The GM sucks we aren't undefeated!

Albeit a lame way to frame the side you disagree with, this is a great narrative regardless. You should write books.

[#27TheDominator]

Albeit a lame way to frame the side you disagree with, this is a great narrative regardless. You should write books.

Lame? I am reading posts questioning the heart of the team, looking to put the OC and GM's heads on a platter and claiming Rex has lost the team because the team isn't undefeated and I'm lame? Were the last two seasons successful? They went through tougher times during those years and this is a ****ed up year from the start. Sorry if I will give them a little more rope than you.

[RutgersJetFan]

Lame? I am reading posts questioning the heart of the team, looking to put the OC and GM's heads on a platter and claiming Rex has lost the team because the team isn't undefeated and I'm lame?

Yeah, you really are. You're extrapolating points and making sh*t up. This is the Sanchez debate from a week ago all over again.

[#27TheDominator]

Yeah, you really are. You're extrapolating points and making sh*t up. This is the Sanchez debate from a week ago all over again.

Maybe I am. I should go to sleep. Was I making sh*t up in the Sanchez debate?

[Il Mostro]

When does the thread about the Jets lacking testicles start? This crapola is getting wackier by the day.

[JiFtheOracle]

And grit, don't forget about grit. Lunchpail. Gym rat. Student of the game.

I set the joke up and you get more rep than me? This place I tell ya.

[rillo]

Nope, lack of the depth and dumbass playing on offense. Throw in piss poor blocking from the oline too.

[THE ILK]

I just hope they don't lack wins.

[Sperm Edwards]

Exactly what "character/locker room guys" did they "switch out"? Burress is a dog, but he replaces Edwards, so that's a push. Those other guys were ollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllld. That's why they are gone.

In the past these "character/locker room guys" were mockingly referred to as "boy scouts" and the calls were to replace them with physically-talented players, leadership-quality be damned. Now that the FO has gone that route by parting with players who were either old, unproductive, injured, or whose dollars were out of proportion to what they offer, they're getting killed for not doing what they got killed for doing in the not-so-distant past.

It still happens, in this thread as well. Take Leonhard. CLEARLY the guy's a team leader. The insinuation, by the mocks of referring to him as gritty and lunchpail and such, is that we'd be better off with someone else in his place. As soon as we do, those same people will be complaining about the lack of leadership and the team chemistry ruined since his departure.

[JiFtheOracle]

In the past these "character/locker room guys" were mockingly referred to as "boy scouts" and the calls were to replace them with physically-talented players, leadership-quality be damned. Now that the FO has gone that route by parting with players who were either old, unproductive, injured, or whose dollars were out of proportion to what they offer, they're getting killed for not doing what they got killed for doing in the not-so-distant past.

It still happens, in this thread as well. Take Leonhard. CLEARLY the guy's a team leader. The insinuation, by the mocks of referring to him as gritty and lunchpail and such, is that we'd be better off with someone else in his place. As soon as we do, those same people will be complaining about the lack of leadership and the team chemistry ruined since his departure.

Great post and you can use this logic for about 5 different conversations that are taking place around here.

And while I set that joke up about Leonhard, I was trying to be serious before that and starting listing the names of players...his came first and then I laughed at this whole thread and just went the joke route.

[Sperm Edwards]

Great post and you can use this logic for about 5 different conversations that are taking place around here.

And while I set that joke up about Leonhard, I was trying to be serious before that and starting listing the names of players...his came first and then I laughed at this whole thread and just went the joke route.

I wasn't talking to you, you filthy bitch.

[Jetsfan80]

I set the joke up and you get more rep than me? This place I tell ya.

There, I just gave you a rep. Now you only lost to me by 1.

[Bleedin Green]

Frankly, call it heart or whatever the hell you want, but on the offensive side of the ball, things are definitely headed in a very dangerous direction. There's no doubt there are some talent issues on offense, such as both starters and depth on the OL and there's no doubt that Plax is a significant downgrade from Braylon, but that said, this offense is still far more talented than how they are performing. The OL seem to have no idea what they, or the guy next to them are doing, the WRs are quitting on routes assuming they even know what their route is supposed to be, and I don't think we really need to discuss Sanchez any further at this point. While I'll admit he's far from the sole problem with this offense, the bottom line is no matter how much Rex loves the guy, it's getting to the point that Schotty's going to have to go very, very soon. Between what's happening on the field and more and more players, both past and present, coming out of the woodwork taking shots at him it looks like the offense has lost complete faith in him and are quitting on him. Of course that's no excuse for these players to act like this, and there's plenty of blame to go around (including of course Rex) and it's not all on Schotty, but he's the only one who you can really do anything about anytime soon, because there's no feasible replacement options for Sanchez or any other starting player, be it OL, WR or RB. Something needs to light a fire under these guys asses, and unless the Jets can pull a breakout offensive performance out of their a$$ in the very near future to get everyone back in gear, a change is going to have to be made, and with the bye week soon approaching, that certainly seems to be as good of a time as any.