Vicious89x Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Sorry but Smith did it the previous week vs New Orleans and actully went punch for punch with Drew Brees. The Giants Defense was playing lights out yesterday and for the last 5 weeks a lot different than the Saints . it was obvious to me Smith had no one to throw the ball too after the Giants took Davis out of the game. The niners should have gone to the run in OT because the D-line of the Giants had to be a bit wore down at that stage of the game. Gore was 16 for 74 in that game and i think he would have gashed the Giants in OT especially since the niners had already gained 150 yards rushing up to that point . I think for as much pressure as Smith was under he did a great job not turning over the ball. When you see the great passes Smith made this year in the playoffs you have to ask yourself what would he have done with a better group of WR's. Mark my words the niners go big after WR"S this offseason No he didn't. Drew Brees had to overcome 5 turnovers. Drew Brees is the reason that team had the lead with 2 minutes to go. Please tell me you see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 No he didn't. Drew Brees had to overcome 5 turnovers. Drew Brees is the reason that team had the lead with 2 minutes to go. Please tell me you see that. Brees also threw 2 picks...the Graham play was all Jimmy Graham and Sproles took a short pass the distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Watching Welker on the podium now. With the smirk on his face. Yeah. Go Giants!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious89x Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Brees also threw 2 picks...the Graham play was all Jimmy Graham. I guess my premise is very simply: Elite QB's can overcome a teams failures and shortcomings much more simply than a team overcoming a QB failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I guess my premise is very simply: Elite QB's can overcome a teams failures and shortcomings much more simply than a team overcoming a QB failure. Not arguing that...but I think if you put the right pieces around a decent enough QB you can get there. The Niners and Ravens both pretty much choked yesterday. Its the more difficult route obviously...but actually getting an elite QB is even harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious89x Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Not arguing that...but I think if you put the right pieces around a decent enough QB you can get there. The Niners and Ravens both pretty much choked yesterday. Its harder than having elite QB play because like you said you need breaks....but actually getting an elite qb is even more difficult. And I agree too- but I think we'd need to have a decent QB under center, which we simply do not have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 And I agree too- but I think we'd need to have a decent QB under center, which we simply do not have. True. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Keeping it real simple Jets are not winning SB with sanchez at QB, So for us old folk, 1969 may be it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 No he didn't. Drew Brees had to overcome 5 turnovers. Drew Brees is the reason that team had the lead with 2 minutes to go. Please tell me you see that. The fact is Brees did overcome the turnovers that put them behind in the first half. But please tell me you saw Brees throw 2 Ints contributing to that mess and Smith throw 0 . Also at the end two times Smith drove his team up the field with go ahead scores. Keep trying to figure out a way to put Smith down NO takes the the lead 24 -23 on the Sproles TD Smith drives his team 80 yards to take the lead back 29-24 Brees hits Graham for 66 yards 32 -29 Smith Drives his team 85 yards to win the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious89x Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 The fact is Brees did overcome the turnovers that put them behind in the first half. But please tell me you saw Brees throw 2 Ints contributing to that mess and Smith throw 0 . Also at the end two times Smith drove his team up the field with go ahead scores. Keep trying to figure out a way to put Smith down NO takes the the lead 24 -23 on the Sproles TD Smith drives his team 80 yards to take the lead back 29-24 Brees hits Graham for 66 yards 32 -29 Smith Drives his team 85 yards to win the game. Of course I did. I also saw him slap around that Niners defense. Niners D > NO D Saying smith looked great agains NO's defense is like saying any QB looked marvelous against the Patriots defense. Those units are just not the strength of their team. The fact you think Alex Smith and Mark Sanchez are good QB's pretty much cements your legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatriotReign37 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I guess my premise is very simply: Elite QB's can overcome a teams failures and shortcomings much more simply than a team overcoming a QB failure. Something to think about. The Ravens did not allow more than 2 - 10+ play drives per game all season. Yesterday, even with Brady playing poorly, NE had 5 - 10+ play drives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Of course I did. I also saw him slap around that Niners defense. Niners D > NO D Saying smith looked great agains NO's defense is like saying any QB looked marvelous against the Patriots defense. Those units are just not the strength of their team. The fact you think Alex Smith and Mark Sanchez are good QB's pretty much cements your legacy. Im not really concerned what you think about my QB assessment Im just pointing out what happened. I think its painfully obvious the Jets lack talent across the board on offense and lack speed when it comes to the niners I think they have more talent than us but lack a Big WR that can make plays for them. Alex Smith is the least of the Niners problems on offense and he will prove that next year. Sanchez will prove it as well if the Jets ever decide to surround him with talent just like all the other Young and elite QB's opf the league seem to benifit from. Honestly I dont expect much from the Jets because they seem to be heading down the road of the early to mid 90's but the Niners will most definetely get WR's this year. You can copy and paste this post and stick it in my face next year if you like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious89x Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Something to think about. The Ravens did not allow more than 2 - 10+ play drives per game all season. Yesterday, even with Brady playing poorly, NE had 5 - 10+ play drives. I'm pretty much of the belief Belichek know's he's got Brady and that offense can score. All he needs is for his D is to get 1-2 big stops a game or just force field goals and they're gonna win. It's not the early 2000's Patriots team where Brady was asked to do just enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious89x Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Im not really concerned what you think about my QB assessment Im just pointing out what happened. I think its painfully obvious the Jets lack talent across the board on offense and lack speed when it comes to the niners I think they have more talent than us but lack a Big WR that can make plays for them. Alex Smith is the least of the Niners problems on offense and he will prove that next year. Sanchez will prove it as well if the Jets ever decide to surround him with talent just like all the other Young and elite QB's opf the league seem to benifit from. Honestly I dont expect much from the Jets because they seem to be heading down the road of the early to mid 90's but the Niners will most definetely get WR's this year. You can copy and paste this post and stick it in my face next year if you like Eh, I don't care to dance and say I told ya so. Just obvious we have very different opinions/assesments. MINE HAPPEN TO BE RIGHT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Eh, I don't care to dance and say I told ya so. Just obvious we have very different opinions/assesments. MINE HAPPEN TO BE RIGHT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 The hitting the WR in stride argument is ridiculuos. Why does Sanchez have to hit his WR perfectly in stride all the time when even the so called Elite QBs dont do this all the time? Stopped reading here. Sanchez almost never does it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious89x Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Stopped reading here. Sanchez almost never does it. Is SRH the new TL;DR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsnts725 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 The problem is the 49ers had everything go right for them this year and they simply didn't get it done. They had an elite defense, elite special teams, Alex Smith minimized his errors, they won 13 games and had HFA throughout the playoffs and the reason they lost that game last night(yeah Kyle Williams could have bailed them out) was that Smith was totally inept. He couldn't hit the broad side of a barn last night. You have to play almost perfectly every week for this brand of football to win in today's NFL. It's not a smart way to build a team. THIS. great post bro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Is SRH the new TL;DR? Excuse me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Yeah but according to Football Outsiders we were better. No, what FO says is that, when adjusted for opponent, the Jets ranked 2nd and SF 3rd. Another factor is that DVOA normalizes fumble recoveries to the league average percentage, which hurts SF, as they lead the league in defensive fumble recoveries. They also have the Jets as having the 29th worst variance in weekly DVOA, which means their performance was wildly inconsistent, while SF was 7th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTJ06 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Stopped reading here. Sanchez almost never does it. nonsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 nonsense The idea that the post you quoted is false is nonsense. Sanchez almost never hits guys in stride, especially this past year. While much of that can be blamed on how the system was designed and called, it's still something he's going to have to do more often in the long run. Hopefully Sporano hooks him up and calls more easy reads and in stride pass-n-catches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE ILK Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Ground and Pound in 2012! I did it my way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Kyle Williams doesnt muff those punts and the Niners win though. Good point, and if NO didn't have 2 ST's fumbles last week SF wouldn't have been playing at all.. And the championship game would be an Elite QB versus a very good QB Yep. IF the other teams didnt choke the SB would be featuring Alex Smith and Joe Flacco. Kyle Williams doesnt muff those punts and the Niners win though. You guys are missing the point, anything can happen in 1 game. The fact is that having an elite QB gets you into games like this more frequently, offering you more opportunities to win them. Just look at SB history, the last team that didn't have a big time QB to win a SB was almost 10 years ago, and that guy (Brad Johnson) was a probowler that year. If either the 49'ers or Ravens had their own elite, QB, they'd have won handidnly anyway, so it makes the point that way too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Couldnt separate at all yesterday. You had all 22 footage of the game? Neat.. Where can I get it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Sanchez had a crappy year without question, but the "still playing with Rivers" argument is silly. Rivers sucked this year (not as bad as Sanchez, of course) and Sanchez went 11-5 last year and the Jets went to the AFCCG. So, guess what, the Jets were "still playing" last year this past weekend. The point is not about "still playing." It's about winning and elite QBs are dominating that in the age of parity. Every team without an elite QB is starting at the wrong place. For the Jets, they have to keep chasing the elite QB, be it Peyton, if Brees somehow has a falling out with NO, drafting high in 1st round, or trying to find a way to spur Sanchez into a leap in play. All of these options are low in probability. fwiw, I think you need a QB that at least gives you a punchers chance. Eli is very good, not elite, but in the top 25% of the league (top 8).. Most importantly however is that on any given day he can play as well as almost any QB in the league, regardless of cicumstance. Have a guy like that with a great defense and run game and you're good to go imo.. My big issue with Pennington was that you just didn't have that chance at all, it was hopeless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 You had all 22 footage of the game? Neat.. Where can I get it? When something doesnt fit your argument, you can always go the 22 angle. Never fails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Of course you need competent QB play, but if you've watched these playoffs both the Giants and Patriots defenses have outplayed their QB's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 On the topic of elite vs non-elite QBs, I think you can get to a SB without a top level QB. You can probably even win one. The 2005 Steelers did not have elite level play from the position. The 2007 Giants didn't either, though Eli got red hot in the playoffs. Id say from 2000-2003 you didnt really have elite play. Brady became an elite name, but he wasnt elite in 2001 and Im not sure he was in 2003 either. He was in 2004 which is really when his game took off to the next level. Granted the game is more even now than it was early in the decade, thus making the QB have bigger impact, but I think it can be done. I don't have the 07 stats handy, but Rothlisberger played great during the 05 playoff run (up till the SB), and was enough of an upgrade over Tommy Maddux to instantly turn a 5 win team into a 15 win team, with almost no other changes.. Again, Steelers don't even get in there in 05 without Rothlisbergers ELITE play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 When something doesnt fit your argument, you can always go the 22 angle. Never fails. Then i guess it never fails that you talk out of your a$$ regularly. You or smash or anyone else that makes this argument have no idea if receivers are open, they don't show that view on TV and you weren't there.. And if you're adopting the opinion of the announcers, then you should re think that. There was a play yesterday that Flacco got sacked, and they showed the over head view with Phill Simms commentary that nobody was open, but of course, the overhead view clearly showed 2 open players. The fact is that you have to watch these plays several times to determine if nobody's open, as it's tough to do in real time, particularly when tendency is to watch the ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Then i guess it never fails that you talk out of your a$$ regularly. You or smash or anyone else that makes this argument have no idea if receivers are open, they don't show that view on TV and you weren't there.. And if you're adopting the opinion of the announcers, then you should re think that. There was a play yesterday that Flacco got sacked, and they showed the over head view with Phill Simms commentary that nobody was open, but of course, the overhead view clearly showed 2 open players. The fact is that you have to watch these plays several times to determine if nobody's open, as it's tough to do in real time, particularly when tendency is to watch the ball I didnt need yesterday to realize Crabtree is a bum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Good point, and if NO didn't have 2 ST's fumbles last week SF wouldn't have been playing at all.. And the championship game would be an Elite QB versus a very good QB You guys are missing the point, anything can happen in 1 game. The fact is that having an elite QB gets you into games like this more frequently, offering you more opportunities to win them. Just look at SB history, the last team that didn't have a big time QB to win a SB was almost 10 years ago, and that guy (Brad Johnson) was a probowler that year. If either the 49'ers or Ravens had their own elite, QB, they'd have won handidnly anyway, so it makes the point that way too I'm not missing the point at all. I get what having an elite QB does for you. lol But if you dont, ground and pound and defense is the next best thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Giants defense since Week 15 is playing at an elite level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I'm not missing the point at all. I get what having an elite QB does for you. lol But if you dont, ground and pound and defense is the next best thing. Sure, cause it's not easy to get an elite QB.. But if a guy like Manning comes free and the Jets don't make a hard pitch for him I'll be just about done with rex.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoicsentry Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 The problem is the 49ers had everything go right for them this year and they simply didn't get it done. They had an elite defense, elite special teams, Alex Smith minimized his errors, they won 13 games and had HFA throughout the playoffs and the reason they lost that game last night(yeah Kyle Williams could have bailed them out) was that Smith was totally inept. He couldn't hit the broad side of a barn last night. Really? I would have thought two special teams turnovers in the championship game contributed to the loss, also. What, given that one of them was in sudden death... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.