PatriotReign37 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 You don't go into a season saying a guy who's in the bottom 1/3rd is your unquestioned starter, nor with the mentality that you're going to run the ball to the Super Bowl. The question/fear is that Rex's idea of how to win is antiquated. This is more the issue of this thread, as opposed to Sanchez. While I think he's terrible, and the numbers pretty much back that up, it really goes beyond him. The problem is that if the opposing team gets up by a couple of TDs youre screwed because you have to pass to get back in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeet Ulrich Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Oh give me a break. Were it not for an overtime turnover on special teams, Alex Smith may very well be in the Superbowl right now. Were it not for Lee Evans or Billy Cundiff, the Ravens might very well be there with Joe Flacco as well. It was not Brady who put the Pats over the top, nor Eli that did it for the Giants. GROUND N POUND all the way. The problem is the 49ers had everything go right for them this year and they simply didn't get it done. They had an elite defense, elite special teams, Alex Smith minimized his errors, they won 13 games and had HFA throughout the playoffs and the reason they lost that game last night(yeah Kyle Williams could have bailed them out) was that Smith was totally inept. He couldn't hit the broad side of a barn last night. You have to play almost perfectly every week for this brand of football to win in today's NFL. It's not a smart way to build a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatriotReign37 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I did not want the Pats ant the Giants to go the SB. And these are the very 2 teams going there. Also how unfair is this. JETS had to play against Peyton, Brady and Ben last season in the playoffs. This season the Pats had to play against Tebow, Flacco so far! Peyton Manning was hurt last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I'm not saying fire rex or anything like that. I'd fire Tannenbaum tomorrow if I had the ability, but that's another story. I just think we're better off looking for a QB that can take a game on his shoulders than building an offense that you think doesn't require one. We keep seeing the same thing over and over again in the NFL, yet we're trying to be the statistical anomaly. There are plenty of good QBs in this league not named Brees, Rodgers, Manning, and Brady. Build a great team around a good QB and we're fine. Try to build an elite team around a crap QB, and you end up with what we've got. A team that when clicking perfectly, can contend, but if all the other factors aren't playing at a high level, you're dead. We saw that twice today. This is such bullsh*t. Eli, Big Ben, and Brady are the only guys consistently getting to SB. Then there are Rodgers and Brees. Building a great team around a good QB will get you to the same place Snchez did--losing to an elite QB in AFCCG. Elite QBs are a rare breed. Jets dont hve one and wont see a SB until they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 The problem is the 49ers had everything go right for them this year and they simply didn't get it done. They had an elite defense, elite special teams, Alex Smith minimized his errors, they won 13 games and had HFA throughout the playoffs and the reason they lost that game last night(yeah Kyle Williams could have bailed them out) was that Smith was totally inept. He couldn't hit the broad side of a barn last night. You have to play almost perfectly every week for this brand of football to win in today's NFL. It's not a smart way to build a team. Yep, spot on, if im harbaugh, i get Peyton and they win 3 straight SB's with that killer def Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 So if the Niners don't fumble away the game do you still post this thread? You mean like the Saints fumbled it away last week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 The problem is the 49ers had everything go right for them this year and they simply didn't get it done. They had an elite defense, elite special teams, Alex Smith minimized his errors, they won 13 games and had HFA throughout the playoffs and the reason they lost that game last night(yeah Kyle Williams could have bailed them out) was that Smith was totally inept. He couldn't hit the broad side of a barn last night. You have to play almost perfectly every week for this brand of football to win in today's NFL. It's not a smart way to build a team. Yep, and being elite everywhere else but QB is impossible to sustain in salary cap era. Players and coaches start to get poached when you succeed. Usually there's a mix of vets and rookies, and the vets start to decline (like Bart Scott) Also, the niner's aren't even playing today if the Saints beat St Louis OR don't turn it over 5 times last week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 when did Eli suck besides 2004? thats right he never did #hater In 07 the year the Giants won the Bowl Eli was 23 tds 20 picks and 13 fumbles.. A completion rate of 56.1 and rating of 73.9 if Sanchez did that Jet fans would say he sucks.. Last year he threw 25 picks and he didn't get to a 60% completion till his 5th year.. Look at his stats yourself.. http://www.jt-sw.com...nsf/ID/08510245 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Yep, and being elite everywhere else but QB is impossible to sustain in salary cap era. Players and coaches start to get poached when you succeed. Usually there's a mix of vets and rookies, and the vets start to decline (like Bart Scott) Also, the niner's aren't even playing today if the Saints beat St Louis OR don't turn it over 5 times last week. Or you retain your previously-cheaper veterans at market price and can't afford appropriate depth behind/around them. Then the other fill-in and found-money type players aren't there because of how many draft picks were traded away to acquire veterans (almost all of whom needed new mega-contracts upon acquisition). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFlaJets Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 In 07 the year the Giants won the Bowl Eli was 23 tds 20 picks and 13 fumbles.. A completion rate of 56.1 and rating of 73.9 if Sanchez did that Jet fans would say he sucks.. Last year he threw 25 picks and he didn't get to a 60% completion till his 5th year.. Look at his stats yourself.. http://www.jt-sw.com...nsf/ID/08510245 After all the years of watching Jets fans trying to justify the worth of our starting QB because of him having the best completion rating among all active starting QBs that we would have learned. Give me a guy who completes two passes for a hundred yards over one who goes 8-11 for 99 yards-we've seen what that offensive philosophy gets you...a nice comfy spot on your couch watching another Jets-less Super Bowl game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 In 07 the year the Giants won the Bowl Eli was 23 tds 20 picks and 13 fumbles.. A completion rate of 56.1 and rating of 73.9 if Sanchez did that Jet fans would say he sucks.. Last year he threw 25 picks and he didn't get to a 60% completion till his 5th year.. Look at his stats yourself.. http://www.jt-sw.com...nsf/ID/08510245 He threw a ton of picks last year - and some horribly ugly like the lefty throw - but by mid-season I'd already lost count of how many of those picks were strikes that hit his receivers in stride in the hands or facemask first before bouncing up in the air into the waiting arms of a defender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Yep, and being elite everywhere else but QB is impossible to sustain in salary cap era. Players and coaches start to get poached when you succeed. Usually there's a mix of vets and rookies, and the vets start to decline (like Bart Scott) Also, the niner's aren't even playing today if the Saints beat St Louis OR don't turn it over 5 times last week. Exactly my point and why EY's point about great team plus good QB is such BS. Not only are elite units hard to sustain year in year out, there really are no great teams sans great QB out there. Jets are sunk unless they get an elite QB. Going the Hasselbeck route is a waste of time because he'll lose once he faces an elite QB in postseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 After all the years of watching Jets fans trying to justify the worth of our starting QB because of him having the best completion rating among all active starting QBs that we would have learned. Give me a guy who completes two passes for a hundred yards over one who goes 8-11 for 99 yards-we've seen what that offensive philosophy gets you...a nice comfy spot on your couch watching another Jets-less Super Bowl game I agree if you meant a QB that plays the best when the chips are down.. The Pats won yesterday because Evans dropped a td and their kicker missed a easy fg.. Same old Ravens?? Or if the Pats can't be good being lucky works too.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Kyle Williams doesnt muff those punts and the Niners win though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Oh give me a break. Were it not for an overtime turnover on special teams, Alex Smith may very well be in the Superbowl right now. Were it not for Lee Evans or Billy Cundiff, the Ravens might very well be there with Joe Flacco as well. It was not Brady who put the Pats over the top, nor Eli that did it for the Giants. GROUND N POUND all the way. This. I'm not going to for a second argue that having elite QB is a the best recipe for a SB birth. It is. No doubt. But if you dont have one, there is no questions the G&P + great D is the 2nd best recipe. Mark Sanchez sucks. No doubt. But what else is out there? Finding an elite QB is probably the hardest thing to do in the game. I mean, how many top overall QB's are busts? Even guys like Aikman and Bradshaw were never mind blowing QB's who threw for 4k 30+ TD's. The only one who've really panned out that way are the Mannings. Truth is, the Saints, Packers, Pats all got lucky. Sucks. We're ****ed and stuck with Sanchez but its not like the Jets dont try to find the franchise Qb. They've just struck out, like the other 28 teams in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I didn't bother actually reading the thread yet, but trying to make this point after yesterday is absolutely laughable. Those two games could not have possibly had less to do with the "elite" (which Eli is not) QBs on either teams. Brady played like absolute garbage, and Eli wasn't much better. A combination of blind luck, horrendously awful special teams and crappy officiating decided those 2 games more than anything. Of course, none of this is to say that the Jets don't need a serious upgrade at QB, and it isn't an important part to a team, but the football we watched yesterday was the furthest example you could possibly get from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYGiantFan10 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I didn't bother actually reading the thread yet, but trying to make this point after yesterday is absolutely laughable. Those two games could not have possibly had less to do with the "elite" (which Eli is not) QBs on either teams. Brady played like absolute garbage, and Eli wasn't much better. A combination of blind luck, horrendously awful special teams and crappy officiating decided those 2 games more than anything. Of course, none of this is to say that the Jets don't need a serious upgrade at QB, and it isn't an important part to a team, but the football we watched yesterday was the furthest example you could possibly get from that. what does eli need to do to be "elite" in your opinion, very curious to hear this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I didn't bother actually reading the thread yet, but trying to make this point after yesterday is absolutely laughable. Those two games could not have possibly had less to do with the "elite" (which Eli is not) QBs on either teams. Brady played like absolute garbage, and Eli wasn't much better. A combination of blind luck, horrendously awful special teams and crappy officiating decided those 2 games more than anything. Of course, none of this is to say that the Jets don't need a serious upgrade at QB, and it isn't an important part to a team, but the football we watched yesterday was the furthest example you could possibly get from that. Yep. IF the other teams didnt choke the SB would be featuring Alex Smith and Joe Flacco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 The problem is the 49ers had everything go right for them this year and they simply didn't get it done. They had an elite defense, elite special teams, Alex Smith minimized his errors, they won 13 games and had HFA throughout the playoffs and the reason they lost that game last night(yeah Kyle Williams could have bailed them out) was that Smith was totally inept. He couldn't hit the broad side of a barn last night. You have to play almost perfectly every week for this brand of football to win in today's NFL. It's not a smart way to build a team. Yahtzee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 what does eli need to do to be "elite" in your opinion, very curious to hear this I just think Eli is far too inconsistent of a player to fall into that group. Don't get me wrong, he's certainly quite good, but absolutely not on the level of the likes of Rodgers, Brady, Peyton or Brees. For all of the praise that Eli gets for his 4th quarter antics, the truth is he wouldn't need to do it so often if he wasn't a complete no-show for the first 3 quarters as often as he is. Granted every QB has their rough patches, but Eli's one of those guys that you hardly ever see a complete game out of and it's one of the many reasons the Giants, much like the Jets, can never seem to put away their opponents regardless of if they are really that much of a better team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Yep. IF the other teams didnt choke the SB would be featuring Alex Smith and Joe Flacco. Exactly, and particularly in Flacco's case he essentially threw what should have been the game-winner. As for the 49ers, the refs took away a fumble from them that was all but certain to have won the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Two elite Head Coaches too. That probably has something to do with what everyone is dancing around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 Oh give me a break. Were it not for an overtime turnover on special teams, Alex Smith may very well be in the Superbowl right now. Were it not for Lee Evans or Billy Cundiff, the Ravens might very well be there with Joe Flacco as well. It was not Brady who put the Pats over the top, nor Eli that did it for the Giants. GROUND N POUND all the way. Blah, blah, blah... They're not. The elite QBs are. Just like our team, they peaked at losing in the Championship game. Make the excuses all you want, the results don't lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack48 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I hope Rex was watching. He may not get a QB but he better find an elite pass rush. Even the Pats got good pressure on the QB yesterday. And SF killed Eli. i see the Giants winning this because Eli is 10 times physically tougher than Brady, and the Giants will punish Brady. If we must go to a 4-3 to generate some real pass rush, then we should do it. Belichicken is mostly 4-3 these days. I realize that would be more of an overhaul, with our slow linebackers, but we will not get back unless we can knock down these elite QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 So if the Niners don't fumble away the game do you still post this thread? Perhaps not. But that's exactly the point. When you have a very good QB, you overcome mistakes. When you don't. You find a way to lose at some point. Last week, it took Alex Smith's teams 5 turnovers to beat an elite QB. This week, they gave some back. Law of averages. Simple math. Alex Smith = Done. Eli = Not done. Facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious89x Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 While I don't disagree with the OP, I'd love to get a good QB. That'd be a big upgrade from what we have now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious89x Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Also to people saying KYLE WILLIAMS my counter argument is DREW BREES. The Saints had 5 turnovers. 5 effing turnovers. Yet they lost the game on a last minute TD. You think the Jets hang around in a game like that after 5 turnovers? Meanwhile Alex Smith had the greatest game of his career and everything went right for the niners. Relying on breaks < Elite QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 This is such bullsh*t. Eli, Big Ben, and Brady are the only guys consistently getting to SB. Then there are Rodgers and Brees. Building a great team around a good QB will get you to the same place Snchez did--losing to an elite QB in AFCCG. Elite QBs are a rare breed. Jets dont hve one and wont see a SB until they do. What happened today, to both teams, was the equivalent of Doug Brien. Their QBs didn't get much done all game (well, more then Pennington, but still not a ton), and one or two big mistakes is what gets remembered. Late in the 4th Quarter, the 9ers were 0-10 on 3rd down conversions. Has a team ever won like that? You need a miracle. The guys you listed are a rare breed. But, with a few tweaks to our team, and a guy like Philip Rivers who's been given almost no help (Sporoles, Turner, LT, most of the defense, V Jack holdout at one point, all working against him), Culter who may never have been elite, but is always in the conversation with the bears until he's gotten hurt, Schaub who took the Texans pretty far until he got hurt, I'd even consider Romo, and I think Stafford is making his way into the conversation but isn't there yet and lets see what happens with Cam Newton... I think any one of those guys, with a Rex Ryan defense, and we're a real competitor. Not a team that needs Peyton Manning to be taken out of a game to even make the playoffs one year and everything to go right for us to win, including a miracle drop that everyone forgets by Alge Crumpler in everyone's favorite game of the last decade or a timely kick return by your CB to get you to the cusp of FG range to move on. Any one of those guys mentioned, save perhaps the last two, and you're looking at the losing teams winning yesterday, based on what the rest of their team did. EDIT TO ADD: I'd be ok building around Matt Ryan too, I think. I haven't seen enough of him play to make a complete judgment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 Also to people saying KYLE WILLIAMS my counter argument is DREW BREES. The Saints had 5 turnovers. 5 effing turnovers. Yet they lost the game on a last minute TD. You think the Jets hang around in a game like that after 5 turnovers? Meanwhile Alex Smith had the greatest game of his career and everything went right for the niners. Relying on breaks < Elite QB Exactly. As I said, it's the law of averages with mid and low level QBs. One game you get 5 turnovers and barely win. The next game you give up two stupid ones and you lose. But, you also lost because you went 2-12 on 3rd down, or something like that. The saying goes, it's better to be lucky then good. But I'll take my chances with good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 What happened today, to both teams, was the equivalent of Doug Brien. Their QBs didn't get much done all game (well, more then Pennington, but still not a ton), and one or two big mistakes is what gets remembered. Late in the 4th Quarter, the 9ers were 0-10 on 3rd down conversions. Has a team ever won like that? You need a miracle. The guys you listed are a rare breed. But, with a few tweaks to our team, and a guy like Philip Rivers who's been given almost no help (Sporoles, Turner, LT, most of the defense, V Jack holdout at one point, all working against him), Culter who may never have been elite, but is always in the conversation with the bears until he's gotten hurt, Schaub who took the Texans pretty far until he got hurt, I'd even consider Romo, and I think Stafford is making his way into the conversation but isn't there yet and lets see what happens with Cam Newton... I think any one of those guys, with a Rex Ryan defense, and we're a real competitor. Not a team that needs Peyton Manning to be taken out of a game to even make the playoffs one year and everything to go right for us to win, including a miracle drop that everyone forgets by Alge Crumpler in everyone's favorite game of the last decade or a timely kick return by your CB to get you to the cusp of FG range to move on. Any one of those guys mentioned, save perhaps the last two, and you're looking at the losing teams winning yesterday, based on what the rest of their team did. The Niners are very similar to the Jets first 2 years of Rex they have no WR's at some point you expected the Giants to load up on Vernon Davis and they did then Smith had no where to go with the football. I think Jim Harbaugh is a smart HC and we will most definetely add a WR this offseason he has a young defense so no reason the only real weakness on the 49ers should be addressed. This was obviously a Defensive game and Williams did in fact lose the game for the Niners . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious89x Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 The Niners are very similar to the Jets first 2 years of Rex they have no WR's at some point you expected the Giants to load up on Vernon Davis and they did then Smith had no where to go with the football. I think Jim Harbaugh is a smart HC and we will most definetely add a WR this offseason he has a young defense so no reason the only real weakness on the 49ers should be addressed. This was obviously a Defensive game and Williams did in fact lose the game for the Niners . BUT THEY HAD BRAYLON!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 BUT THEY HAD BRAYLON!!!!!!!!!!!!! BUT BRAYLON GOT HURT. Mark my words the niners are not stupid like the Jets they will get a real WR this offseason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious89x Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 BUT BRAYLON GOT HURT. Mark my words the niners are not stupid like the Jets they will get a real WR this offseason Ooo boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Ooo boy. wtf is wrong with you ? Yopu want rep here ya go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 The Niners are very similar to the Jets first 2 years of Rex they have no WR's at some point you expected the Giants to load up on Vernon Davis and they did then Smith had no where to go with the football. I think Jim Harbaugh is a smart HC and we will most definetely add a WR this offseason he has a young defense so no reason the only real weakness on the 49ers should be addressed. This was obviously a Defensive game and Williams did in fact lose the game for the Niners . So, going 2-12 on 3rd down is irrelevant? They drafted Crabtree very highly very recently and he had a decent, though not spectacular year. They brought in a legitimate deep threat (who got hurt, which essentially caused the Kyle Williams issues) and they brought in a WR who everyone here killed our FO for letting go because of how good he was. So, while I appreciate your infatuation with WRs, I'm not sure your point holds up. The mistakes of a back-up punt returner put the nail in the coffin. But the offensive's overall lack of production besides big plays to Vernon Davis was what really lost that game. When your team can't survive losing Ted Ginn, there are bigger problems. And, unfortunately, this week, their defense couldn't muster 5 turnovers like they needed last week just to eek out a win. Sorry to go math on you, but outside of elite QBs, everyone regresses to the mean. That's exactly what you saw yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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