Hope for Sanchez? Who knows, but...

[CrazyCarl40]

Easy to say when they failed with Sanchez.

There is no doubt in my mind you would have made the exact same statement if he was the QB of the Giants and they went 6-10 or 7-9 with him instead of Eli.

Bad QB play affects the receivers, the OL, the ground game, the defense, and the plays called from the sideline. He made everyone worse by being a bad QB. You cannot possibly say what would not have happened if the Jets had a good QB instead of a bad one.

All that said, doesn't bad coaching lead to bad QB play especially in a quarterback that is young and inexperienced.

[Jetsfan80]

All that said, doesn't bad coaching lead to bad QB play especially in a quarterback that is young and inexperienced.

He looked just as bad in Week 17 of his 3rd season as he did Week 1 of his first. Maybe a big chunk of that was on Schottenheimer but at some point, the QB must be the bigger problem. Just how much should a glorified QB coach be holding a QB's hand before he's ready to grow into a real NFL QB?

[Lupz27]

You should get a job coming up with conspiracy theories. No one on the Jets, Sanchez included, has even slightly hinted that any of this had any effect on him other than reducing turnovers and seeing improvement in his play.

Or is it your assertion that throwing 5 picks against Buffalo and blowing a sure-thing win all by himself (after blowing the whole game against the Saints 2 weeks earlier) would have helped his confidence more than not throwing picks and winning football games? No offense, but it's an understatement to say that's far-fetched logic.

A QB needs to learn not to throw interceptions and blow football games with unnecessary risks. You think the proper way to coach a QB is to not teach him this until years later, and to let him blow game after game? That red-yellow-green was instrumental in the best game of his pro career, which was the playoff game against the Bengals.

It worked for Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Aaron Rodgers, I'm sure others, Peyton holds the rookie record for INT's, Eli won 1 game in the 9 games he started his rookie season, and Aaron Rodgers while having decent stats, made plenty of mistakes his first year starting leading his team to a 5 win season, these QB's were afforded the chance to fail, the Jets never did that with Sanchez, they pulled him in at every hiccup, some where big hiccups. Would Sanchez be considered a top QB, probably not, but I think he would be much better, and you would have a better body of work to judge him on.

The proper way to teach him is not years later that's not what I'm saying, you teach him in the film room the week after the game, show him what he did wrong, or show him what he saw wrong, and then tell him keep playing your game, and fix what I'm teaching you, the Jets just pulled the plug on him instead.

And no the Bengals game was not the best game of his career, that would be the Patriots playoff game, were Sanchez led the Jets to victory, answering every Brady score in the 2nd half, with beautiful perfectly placed passes on multiple occasions, LT's TD, perfect lead pass, Holmes TD, placed only where Holmes can get it, Holmes did the rest, Edwards, beast TD, he placed the ball inside perfectly where BE could use his body to shield off MCCourtey, and the best throw off them all, and the play that turned the tide for good, the perfectly led ball to Cotchery in stride, setting Cotchery up for the big YAC. But I'm sure you want to forget plays like this in these big spots to further prove your opinion. Because that's what it is an opinion, just like mine is an opinion, were both entitled to them, the difference is your trying to pass yours off as fact.

Fact Mark Sanchez has the most playoff wins 4 in NYJ history!

Fact Mark Sanchez holds the record for single season TD's from a QB in NYJ history!

Fact Mark Sanchez has 10 4th quarter comebacks in 3 seasons!

I'm sure you have a multitude of facts to argue your OPINION, as I do to argue my OPINION.

But don't get it confused with your OPINION being fact, just as I won't mine.

[CrazyCarl40]

He looked just as bad in Week 17 of his 3rd season as he did Week 1 of his first. Maybe a big chunk of that was on Schottenheimer but at some point, the QB must be the bigger problem. Just how much should a glorified QB coach be holding a QB's hand before he's ready to grow into a real NFL QB?

No, he didn't. Sanchez has gotten at least a little better from 2009 until today. The problem is that Sanchez was handed everything and earned nothing. We had a super bowl caliber team with a rookie QB in 2009 and 2010. That falls squarely on the shoulders of management. We wasted a season on Favre and now we are in a vicious cycle with the supposed QB of the future who doesn't seem to be ready to take the next step. But, he at least needs one more season. There just are not any better options.

[Jetsfan80]

No, he didn't. Sanchez has gotten at least a little better from 2009 until today. The problem is that Sanchez was handed everything and earned nothing. We had a super bowl caliber team with a rookie QB in 2009 and 2010. That falls squarely on the shoulders of management. We wasted a season on Favre and now we are in a vicious cycle with the supposed QB of the future who doesn't seem to be ready to take the next step. But, he at least needs one more season. There just are not any better options.

Favre had us at 8-3, 1st place in the AFC, until he got hurt. And he did it without Rex Ryan's defense and a legitimate running game. Just saying. If Sanchez being "a little better" since 2009 is good enough for you, I'll leave it at that.

[CrazyCarl40]

Favre had us at 8-3, 1st place in the AFC, until he got hurt. And he did it without Rex Ryan's defense and a legitimate running game. Just saying. If Sanchez being "a little better" since 2009 is good enough for you, I'll leave it at that.

And he was a billion years old and was a bandaid on a gaping hole. And all of that led to where we are now. Period.

When you draft a QB high you expect there to be bumps in the road early on. Jets fans have an issue with it because The rest of the team has been of a championship quality. So we blame the biggest piece of the equation holding us back, but it really is a gross mismanagement of the team and the roster than it is terrible play by Sanchez. Rex and Tanny put him there and made him the face. Some of the blame has to fall on their fat shoulders.

[Scott Dierking]

No question is that simple and I know you know better.

Is Sanchez "performing well" in a game like the 2nd Bills game? By the numbers he had 4 TD's and 0 INT's in the red zone.

Was he the one instrumental on the play when Keller was standing still all by himself in the back of the EZ with no one within 10 yards of him?

How about on the next TD when Plaxico had his man beat by 5 yards (and the pass was still thrown a little behind him).

Next TD Keller had his man beat and would have walked in if Sanchez led him. Instead Sanchez threw behind him, Keller had to break stride to catch it, then as a result had to break a wrapped-up tackle to get into the EZ.

4th TD was the result of Plaxico fully extending to make a 1-handed catch on a pass thrown out of bounds over his wrong shoulder. The TD Sanchez did a nice job of scrambling and made a perfect throw to Holmes (who was open by a 5 yards as well, but a perfect throw is a perfect throw).

The stats say he was better than Aaron Rodgers. The eyes say he did nothing that Brooks Bollinger couldn't have done.

Stupid stats They make everything so murky

[KSJets]

"borderline retarded?" Me thinks thou art generous.

I was trying to be nice. Truth be told, I think you can hand a Madden controller to a chimp and he can pick better plays to run than Schotty managed..

[Lupz27]

Favre had us at 8-3, 1st place in the AFC, until he got hurt. And he did it without Rex Ryan's defense and a legitimate running game. Just saying. If Sanchez being "a little better" since 2009 is good enough for you, I'll leave it at that.

2008 the Jets rushed for 2003 yards good for 9th in the league, YPC 4.7, good for 5th in the league, yes the D stunk compared to 09, but the Jets had a elite rushing game in 2008. Not to mention Schotty had to scrap his whole playbook because Favre told him it was way to complicated, and confusing, and needed to be simplified, but when it's Sanchez who needs it done this way it's because he sucks, the jets had to simplify it for him he will never be good. The Jets accommodated Favre, to change the playbook to his strengths, mostly because he demanded it, the Jets never did this for Sanchez.

The 2008 season falls on the Jets coaching staff they didn't adjust once Favre got injured, and they dumped failed to dump the biggest culprit in Schotty, he is now gone, hopefully Sparano will prove me wrong, and right the ship, and hopefully Rex will heed Steve Young's advice about the offense.

[Sperm Edwards]

All that said, doesn't bad coaching lead to bad QB play especially in a quarterback that is young and inexperienced.

Bad QB's lead to bad QB play with good coaching or bad.

[Sperm Edwards]

It worked for Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Aaron Rodgers, I'm sure others, Peyton holds the rookie record for INT's, Eli won 1 game in the 9 games he started his rookie season, and Aaron Rodgers while having decent stats, made plenty of mistakes his first year starting leading his team to a 5 win season, these QB's were afforded the chance to fail, the Jets never did that with Sanchez, they pulled him in at every hiccup, some where big hiccups. Would Sanchez be considered a top QB, probably not, but I think he would be much better, and you would have a better body of work to judge him on.

The proper way to teach him is not years later that's not what I'm saying, you teach him in the film room the week after the game, show him what he did wrong, or show him what he saw wrong, and then tell him keep playing your game, and fix what I'm teaching you, the Jets just pulled the plug on him instead.

And no the Bengals game was not the best game of his career, that would be the Patriots playoff game, were Sanchez led the Jets to victory, answering every Brady score in the 2nd half, with beautiful perfectly placed passes on multiple occasions, LT's TD, perfect lead pass, Holmes TD, placed only where Holmes can get it, Holmes did the rest, Edwards, beast TD, he placed the ball inside perfectly where BE could use his body to shield off MCCourtey, and the best throw off them all, and the play that turned the tide for good, the perfectly led ball to Cotchery in stride, setting Cotchery up for the big YAC. But I'm sure you want to forget plays like this in these big spots to further prove your opinion. Because that's what it is an opinion, just like mine is an opinion, were both entitled to them, the difference is your trying to pass yours off as fact.

Fact Mark Sanchez has the most playoff wins 4 in NYJ history!

Fact Mark Sanchez holds the record for single season TD's from a QB in NYJ history!

Fact Mark Sanchez has 10 4th quarter comebacks in 3 seasons!

I'm sure you have a multitude of facts to argue your OPINION, as I do to argue my OPINION.

But don't get it confused with your OPINION being fact, just as I won't mine.

The fact is we average losing 2 games per season when the defense holds the other team to 10 points.

For all the Eli stat comparisons, that has never happened once in his entire NFL career.

Or do you think that's just my opinion?

[Lupz27]

The fact is we average losing 2 games per season when the defense holds the other team to 10 points.

For all the Eli stat comparisons, that has never happened once in his entire NFL career.

Or do you think that's just my opinion?

Nope I think that's fact, and like I posted it's one of the facts your using to form your opinion, and I'm sure your also using other things like eye test ect... To form the opinion. I am doing the same to form mine.

[Sperm Edwards]

Nope I think that's fact, and like I posted it's one of the facts your using to form your opinion, and I'm sure your also using other things like eye test ect... To form the opinion. I am doing the same to form mine.

Whatever. With that line of thinking we should pick up Henne and Croyle and Clausen and Russell on the cheap and see what we could do about re-signing Clemens.

Surely all of these guys failed due to bad coaching and just weren't fortunate enough to walk into the NFL's #1 defense and #1 rushing game and #1 OL with just about the #1 special teams unit. We should bring them all in and the best among them should be our starting QB.

[Lupz27]

Whatever. With that line of thinking we should pick up Henne and Croyle and Clausen and Russell on the cheap and see what we could do about re-signing Clemens.

Surely all of these guys failed due to bad coaching and just weren't fortunate enough to walk into the NFL's #1 defense and #1 rushing game and #1 OL with just about the #1 special teams unit. We should bring them all in and the best among them should be our starting QB.

Which one of those QB's has even 1 playoff win? 10 4th quarter comebacks, and is the franchise leader for TD's in a season by a QB, for any team they played for? That's right none of them so yea I'll stick with forming a positive opinion of Sanchez, off of these, and my other reasons that lead me to believe Sanchez could turn into a solid NFL QB, while those QB's would have no reason to be considered IMO.

[Sperm Edwards]

Which one of those QB's has even 1 playoff win? 10 4th quarter comebacks, and is the franchise leader for TD's in a season by a QB, for any team they played for? That's right none of them so yea I'll stick with forming a positive opinion of Sanchez, off of these, and my other reasons that lead me to believe Sanchez could turn into a solid NFL QB, while those QB's would have no reason to be considered IMO.

But I thought it was because of coaching.

[NYGiantFan10]

Is it there any truth to the rumor of the jets looking into vince young

[sg3]

Is it there any truth to the rumor of the jets looking into vince young

go back to whatever Midget Circlejerk you came from and leave us alone, already

Respectfully requested, of course

[Scott Dierking]

Surely all of these guys failed due to bad coaching and just weren't fortunate enough to walk into the NFL's #1 defense and #1 rushing game and #1 OL with just about the #1 special teams unit. We should bring them all in and the best among them should be our starting QB.

Let's just say that you come off as a little bit more than disingenuous when you throw out clouded stat rankings like these, but then choose to cherry pick analysis of a clouded stat like Red Zone offensive efficiency.

No question is that simple, and you should know better

[Sperm Edwards]

Let's just say that you come off as a little bit more than disingenuous when you throw out clouded stat rankings like these, but then choose to cherry pick analysis of ai clouded stat like Red Zone offensive efficiency.

No question is that simple, and you should know better

Red zone efficiency is surely Schottenheimer's fault.

[Scott Dierking]

Red zone efficiency is surely Schottenheimer's fault.

I don't understand. The subject matter is Sanchez. Why must you deflect?

[Jet27]

Red zone efficiency is surely Schottenheimer's fault.

This past year was a perfect storm for our Jets and we ended up being 8-8. The reality is there were 3 games that decided and made our season what it was and those games were the Raiders, Bronocs and Giants. People may not want to hear this but our offense scored enough points to win. The defense did not do or live up to Rex's estimation of what his D is. Whose to blame?....Looking back at this past season, lets just turn the page and be done with it and look forward to 2012.

[Sperm Edwards]

I don't understand. The subject matter is Sanchez. Why must you deflect?

You're asking about the team's red-zone offense efficiency. Mentioning the OC who called all those red zone plays is defecting?

Or are you asking about Sanchez's red zone efficiency as though he's a one-man show while 10 other guys on offense - as well as the coaches on the sideline - close their eyes, curl up into fetal position, and suck their thumbs until the play is over?

[Scott Dierking]

You're asking about the team's red-zone offense efficiency. Mentioning the OC who called all those red zone plays is defecting?

Or are you asking about Sanchez's red zone efficiency as though he's a one-man show while 10 other guys on offense - as well as the coaches on the sideline - close their eyes, curl up into fetal position, and suck their thumbs until the play is over?

If that is going to be the criteria the problem is not Sanchez, it is the entire Jet offense.

You can't cherry pick problems on the offense and point to one man, and then say that successes on offense are team achievements.

[GATA]

You might notice that Sanchez's stats in his first three years are also remarkably similar to Brees'. Ain't saying, just saying.

It's funny you mention this because Brian Schittyheimer at the end of the season told Sanchez to read Brees' book.

Telling him to look at how at the beginning of his career Brees was even benched a couple of times by the chargers.

Now look at his past yr. Or Look at an Eli M.

[Sperm Edwards]

If that is going to be the criteria the problem is not Sanchez, it is the entire Jet offense.

You can't cherry pick problems on the offense and point to one man, and then say that successes on offense are team achievements.

I'm not saying that at all. I'm mocking the notion that keeps getting thrown around here, that his failures are due to Schottenheimer and his successes are despite Schottenheimer.

And success on an easy TD throw, with plenty of time to throw it, to players who have no one within 5-10 yards of them is not something I primarily credit the QB for.

[Scott Dierking]

I'm not saying that at all. I'm mocking the notion that keeps getting thrown around here, that his failures are due to Schottenheimer and his successes are despite Schottenheimer.

And success on an easy TD throw, with plenty of time to throw it, to players who have no one within 5-10 yards of them is not something I primarily credit the QB for.

I have not been one of those that lays the blame on Schotty.

Sanchez has many things that he needs to improve upon. Some on this board have asked to point to one, just one thing that he has done well. Well, this year he improved in the Red Zone, and actually flourished there.

And, to dismiss that success by saying "wide open receivers" don't count, and to insinuate all the Jet redzone TD's were in that vain is simply ridiculous. And, did a well acted out play action pass help those receivers get wide open? Does the QB get credit at all in those situations.

The fact remains, some of the smallest windows are in the Red =zone and mistakes are amplified. For that sake, successes should be amplified.

Does that mean Sanchez will be an All Pro QB in the future? Of course not. He has many things to work on.

But, it does show there is a body of work that can be built off of. An important body of work. That is something that some here do not seem capable of acknowledging.

If you can not acknowledge that bit of success, then you are just agenda ridden, and we should discount all your ideas o the subject.

[RutgersJetFan]

It's gonna be a loooooong offseason.

[Scott Dierking]

It's gonna be a loooooong offseason.

This off season will be much shorter than last, as we will not be dealing with a lockout

[The Crusher]

It's gonna be a loooooong offseason.

If Sanchez stays the season will be over by December so you might as well start working on another degree.,

[RutgersJetFan]

If Sanchez stays the season will be over by December so you might as well start working on another degree.,

To paraphrase a colleague: This season was over April 25, 2009.

[The Crusher]

To paraphrase a colleague: This season was over April 25, 2009.

yeah but he lost back to back AFC championships. I think if we give him time to develop and surround him with talent he could lose a couple more before it's all said and done. Jets fans sooo negative.

[RutgersJetFan]

yeah but he lost back to back AFC championships. I think if we give him time to develop and surround him with talent he could lose a couple more before it's all said and done. Jets fans sooo negative.

Well said. Especially since he incorporated throwing multiple INT's to defensive linemen into his arsenal at the end of the year. Look out league. Nay, look out world.

[The Crusher]

Well said. Especially since he incorporated throwing multiple INT's to defensive linemen into his arsenal at the end of the year. Look out league. Nay, look out world.

Hopefully Shotty took that play with him when he left.

[Sperm Edwards]

I have not been one of those that lays the blame on Schotty.

Sanchez has many things that he needs to improve upon. Some on this board have asked to point to one, just one thing that he has done well. Well, this year he improved in the Red Zone, and actually flourished there.

And, to dismiss that success by saying "wide open receivers" don't count, and to insinuate all the Jet redzone TD's were in that vain is simply ridiculous. And, did a well acted out play action pass help those receivers get wide open? Does the QB get credit at all in those situations.

The fact remains, some of the smallest windows are in the Red =zone and mistakes are amplified. For that sake, successes should be amplified.

Does that mean Sanchez will be an All Pro QB in the future? Of course not. He has many things to work on.

But, it does show there is a body of work that can be built off of. An important body of work. That is something that some here do not seem capable of acknowledging.

If you can not acknowledge that bit of success, then you are just agenda ridden, and we should discount all your ideas o the subject.

Fair enough as to why you brought up this one stat.

But you are rewording what I said. I never said all of his RZ touchdowns are to wide open guys. What I did was point to his best RZ game of his NFL career as an example of how you can't merely rely on stats to prove anything. Those were easy plays (the first 3 in particular) any HS QB could do with ease. You have to watch the game and watch what he does before hailing a play as being a success due to him (or any one player).

[Scott Dierking]

Fair enough as to why you brought up this one stat.

But you are rewording what I said. I never said all of his RZ touchdowns are to wide open guys. What I did was point to his best RZ game of his NFL career as an example of how you can't merely rely on stats to prove anything. Those were easy plays (the first 3 in particular) any HS QB could do with ease. You have to watch the game and watch what he does before hailing a play as being a success due to him (or any one player).

The RZ analysis is for the entire year, not just one game.

Sanchez was proficient in this area, any way you want to slice or dice it.

Does that mean he is on the primrose path? Of course not. But, for those that say his accuracy can never be improved, he proved in a number of spots (ok, let's discuss your Buff game), that he can fit the ball. That is all. And that s a start.

Much more to accomplish