Post: Jets considering "completely shaking up their franchise"

[JustInFudge]

I agree that this roster is decent. We've all seen our share of Jets teams that were actually filled with crap talent and this isn't it. We lack playmakers on offense, but that didn't stop Manning from making Blair White and Jacob Tamme actually look good.

Truly the voice of reason. . The roster is solid. The core is damn good. Jets fans expect pro-bowlers are every position. Have the Jets botched some sh*t? Absolutely, same as every team in the NFL. The difference between the elite teams and the NY Jets is not the roster, its the QB.

[T0mShane]

Think the Rex effect was actually a real thing prior to last season. But how last year ended made the Jets look like a bunch of whiny bitches with coaches who can't control a locker room.

No, no. I mean the Rex Effect that causes free agents to flock to Florham Park.

[ZachEY]

Really? Because of a player who's never taken a single down in the NFL?

lol - you guys are cracking me up these days.

So, you'd rather go into next season with the Jets and Sanchez or the Colts and Luck?

[SMC]

It's certainly not all fantastic, but it's not nearly as bad as you're trying to paint it either. The problem with the Jets roster is that when you look player by player, it's really all or nothing. There are some really top notch players on this roster that are amongst the best in the league at their positions, and a number of other really high quality starters, but the problem is the starters at those "other positions", which outside of Slauson at LG, is really awful. The Jets have some of the very worst starters in the entire league at both safety positions, RT, and of course most importantly of all, QB. Three of those positions teams can find a respectable starter with a second or third day pick, or a low dollar FA, but in the long run they'll only make so much of a difference. A team can be the most talented in the league at all but one position, but it won't matter if the exception is QB.

LOL, BG. Then that equates to a crappy roster. You have less than a handful of elite players and the others are close to awful. That's not assembling a good team.

[Jetsfan80]

So, you'd rather go into next season with the Jets and Sanchez or the Colts and Luck?

C. Jets and Peyton Manning or [insert list of 10-12 possible other options @ QB]

[Jetsfan80]

LOL, BG. Then that equates to a crappy roster. You have less than a handful of elite players and the others are close to awful. That's not assembling a good team.

Who cares? Scheme makes up for most of our deficiencies. If we could just get a QB who doesn't throw the ball to linemen we would win the AFC East every year.

[ZachEY]

C. Jets and Peyton Manning or [insert list of 10-12 possible other options @ QB]

Manning is really the only viable option that unseats Sanchez. Even though better QBs can be found, we won't get them. Plus, I'd take my chances going forward with Colts and Luck over Jets and Jason Campbell.

[HessStation]

Rex gets fired, Sparano canned, and Peyton leads us to the promised land.

LOL +1!!!

[T0mShane]

Truly the voice of reason. . The roster is solid. The core is damn good. Jets fans expect pro-bowlers are every position. Have the Jets botched some sh*t? Absolutely, same as every team in the NFL. The difference between the elite teams and the NY Jets is not the roster, its the QB.

They have no QB and no pass rusher. If you're scoring the roster on a sliding scale, then it's not a great roster. You can't win a title without both of those things. It's nice to have a center and an ILB and a fancy pair of corners, but the only thing those guarantee you is that you'll compete. It's the QB and pass rush that take you from "solid" to "elite."

[Jetsfan80]

Manning is really the only viable option that unseats Sanchez. Even though better QBs can be found, we won't get them. Plus, I'd take my chances going forward with Colts and Luck over Jets and Jason Campbell.

Well, Jets and Jason Campbell = new (young) QB in 2013-14, at least. As long as Sanchez no longer has the starting job by, say, Week 13 the latest, he's as good as gone and our future looks brighter by default.

[SMC]

Truly the voice of reason. . The roster is solid. The core is damn good. Jets fans expect pro-bowlers are every position. Have the Jets botched some sh*t? Absolutely, same as every team in the NFL. The difference between the elite teams and the NY Jets is not the roster, its the QB.

How do you go from JVOR saying the roster is "decent" to equate that with "the roster is solid"?

There are 45 players active on gameday, 24 start. The core of "damn good" is 4 players (Revis, Mangold, Dbrick, Harris). Four out of 24. There shouldn't be expectation of pro-bowlers at every position. But there should be expectations that the roster isn't filled with players who are one of the worst in the NFL.

[SMC]

Who cares? Scheme makes up for most of our deficiencies. If we could just get a QB who doesn't throw the ball to linemen we would win the AFC East every year.

Exactly. Peyton makes the Jets better without question. I've never denied that.

I was simply talking about the roster outside the QB position and with so many holes, how can it be called "solid" or "very talented"?

Again, this is the Jets' holes:

No speed at WR

Oline can't pass or run block

TEs can't block

No speed at LB

No pass rush

Crappy Punter

Crappy Kicker

How does that equate with a "solid" or "very talented" roster?

[Jetsfan80]

How do you go from JVOR saying the roster is "decent" to equate that with "the roster is solid"?

There are 45 players active on gameday, 24 start. The core of "damn good" is 4 players (Revis, Mangold, Dbrick, Harris). Four out of 24. There shouldn't be expectation of pro-bowlers at every position. But there should be expectations that the roster isn't filled with players who are one of the worst in the NFL.

it speaks volumes that, despite your opinion that our roster is by and large pretty sh*tty, we still make the playoffs this past season if our QB production is maybe 3-5 spots better.

THAT is the Rex effect.

[SMC]

it speaks volumes that, despite your opinion that our roster is by and large pretty sh*tty, we still make the playoffs this past season if our QB production is maybe 3-5 spots better.

THAT is the Rex effect.

I agree. That's why I said the following above.

No, the Jets were a mediocre football team with a genius Defensive Coordinator masquerading as a HC and one of the worst players in the league at the most important position in all of sports.

On a 53 man roster filled mostly with Jags or outright bums, the Jets have 4 elite players and an elite defensive mind as HC. Rex's defensive scheme is the main reason the Jets have gone to 2 AFC championship games in 3 years and have a winning record over that span.

[JustInFudge]

Well, the Knicks are a playoff seed, something the Jets weren't this year.

And, Peyton makes the Jets better without question because his greatness can carry a mediocre squad like the Jets have.

It's remarkable how you extoll the virtues of this Jets roster.

No speed at WR

Oline can't pass or run block

TEs can't block

No speed at LB

No pass rush

Crappy Punter

Crappy Kicker

Yeah, besides all that the Jets are "a very talented football team."

The Knicks have a losing record, the Jets did not. lmfao. They were 8-5 at one point. Not bad for that miserable roster you are referring to. lmfao

Again, Peyton makes the Jets better. That's without question. The issue between me and JiF is that he thinks this is a very talented roster which defies reality. Being "decent" is not being "very talented."

Defies reality? You're in moron land right now.

So, you'd rather go into next season with the Jets and Sanchez or the Colts and Luck?

I think the Jets are much more talented Football team. The Colts were awful this year because of the loss of one player. I like the Jets team better. I like Colts QB better purely based on hype/hope. I also hope Sanchez can improve.

They have no QB and no pass rusher. If you're scoring the roster on a sliding scale, then it's not a great roster. You can't win a title without both of those things. It's nice to have a center and an ILB and a fancy pair of corners, but the only thing those guarantee you is that you'll compete. It's the QB and pass rush that take you from "solid" to "elite."

I understand that completely...which is while I'll maintain that Jets roster is solid and add a few pieces (QB, pass rusher) they are elite. If you are 2 positions away from getting to the elite level - you have a solid roster.

How do you go from JVOR saying the roster is "decent" to equate that with "the roster is solid"?

There are 45 players active on gameday, 24 start. The core of "damn good" is 4 players (Revis, Mangold, Dbrick, Harris). Four out of 24. There shouldn't be expectation of pro-bowlers at every position. But there should be expectations that the roster isn't filled with players who are one of the worst in the NFL.

You are in lala land. No a reasonable person to debate with.

[billo83]

How do you go from JVOR saying the roster is "decent" to equate that with "the roster is solid"?

There are 45 players active on gameday, 24 start. The core of "damn good" is 4 players (Revis, Mangold, Dbrick, Harris). Four out of 24. There shouldn't be expectation of pro-bowlers at every position. But there should be expectations that the roster isn't filled with players who are one of the worst in the NFL.

How is the roster full of players that are one of the worst in the NFL. Hunter and Smith I agree. I don't anticipate either starting next year. Who else?

[Bleedin Green]

How do you go from JVOR saying the roster is "decent" to equate that with "the roster is solid"?

There are 45 players active on gameday, 24 start. The core of "damn good" is 4 players (Revis, Mangold, Dbrick, Harris). Four out of 24. There shouldn't be expectation of pro-bowlers at every position. But there should be expectations that the roster isn't filled with players who are one of the worst in the NFL.

Oh give me a break. Your response to my post was a tad over-dramatic and this is even worse. My earlier point wasn't that everyone on the Jets not amongst the elite in the NFL are garbage, and trying to make that point is just nonsense. The problem is that the "lower tier" starters, which every team has, are real low on the Jets. It's far from the majority, but it causes issues. The biggest issue is caused when one of them is the QB. There's definitely plenty of room to improve the roster (beyond just QB), but that goes for every team in the NFL. I'm pretty sure there's just a little more to this team than 4 players and 1 coach. Call me crazy, but I would think there's got to be at least a few players worth a damn amongst the other 49 on the active roster, don't you think?

[SMC]

Defies reality? You're in moron land right now.

I think the Jets are much more talented Football team. The Colts were awful this year because of the loss of one player. I like the Jets team better. I like Colts QB better purely based on hype/hope. I also hope Sanchez can improve.

I understand that completely...which is while I'll maintain that Jets roster is solid and add a few pieces (QB, pass rusher) they are elite. If you are 2 positions away from getting to the elite level - you have a solid roster.

You are in lala land. No a reasonable person to debate with.

LOL. The Jets lack the 2 MOST IMPORTANT POSITIONS IN FOOTBALL (Elite QB & Pass rush) but the roster is still solid. And, oh, they can just find that anywhere and they'll be elite.

You're the one in lala land.

"Hey, the patient will be just fine if she wasn't brain dead and her heart worked on it's own."

[Smashmouth]

One part of the article talks about Signing Peyton the other talks about shaking up the team and going for a complete rebuild which then makes no sense to get Manning. opposite sides of the spectrum if you ask me.

When I think shake up, "if" those words are being used by the franchise, I think philosophy change. We could see a change on both the offensive and defensive side of the ball.

For instance they did Hire Dunbar from the Vikings who has spent most if not all of his time working with 4-3 style Defensive lines. The Jets do have an abunsance of young DL so it would not be out of the question to see the Jets take a different path with the defense. Much different techniques used to teach DL in each system so my question is why would they hire Dunbar if they were not looking to make a change ? Just a thought.

On offense they may be looking to get away from ground and pound and go more to a passing attack (like most of the league) which means 2 possible scenarios

1. they sign Manning..... but i think this would be a mistake considering the holes this team has and little money to fix them. We may win more games during the season but I do not think this helps us vs the elite type defenses you will meet in the playoffs since we will not be able to surround Manning with the weapons needed to succeed and he will certainly be effected by our poor pass protecting. Yes I do believe he will be a large improvement over Sanchez in recognizing certain things but keep in mind Peyton has had just as much trouble with elite defenses throughout his career in the playoffs as any other QB would. For all his greatness in the middle of his career, certain top defenses gave him fits in the playoffs just like they gave us fits.

or

2. the Jets Keep Sanchez and spend some money on some elite talent to surround him. The jets have obviously ignored the skill positions on the offensive side of the ball via the draft. I dont belive signing has beens and one time wonders is a fix and if you want to make a large improvement you need to start with the draft. This does not mean loading up on WR's and RB in the middle rounds that never pans out this means spending a pick on a Calvin Johnson/Andre Johnson. Larry Fitz type guy and stop the same old hope we get lucky bullsh*t since we haven't got lucky yet, not once. I want the Jets to finally go after a elite type talent that defenses will have to prepare for and one that can open up the offense and NO Santonio Holmes is not that guy.

If the Jets do go for the complete rebuild the question becomes do they give up on Sanchez or try to build around him with young talent ? if this is the case we will be seeing trades for draft picks and players getting dumped this year and next to free up cap space. Then we have to ask will this just destroy Sanchez' development completely ?

Honestly Im not sure what direction this team goes nor do I know which will be the best, but I think we can all agree something needs to happen because this team as it stands now cant beat a winning team and we would be looking at a 7-9 6-10 this upcomming season as it stands now

[T0mShane]

I understand that completely...which is while I'll maintain that Jets roster is solid and add a few pieces (QB, pass rusher) they are elite. If you are 2 positions away from getting to the elite level - you have a solid roster.

You're being Semantic Suzy now. The Jets are a "solid" roster in the same way a Buick with no steering wheel or transmission is a "solid" car.

[HessStation]

So could cutting Sanchez saving 9M and renegotiating contracts get Manning and Wayne? Is the OL good enough? If so I could go with the offense adding Manning, Wayne and having a complete defensive draft.

My two biggest questions would be is the OL good enough as is and how much will they miss Pouha bc he'll be gone in this scenario.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

SMC, have you not watched our defense perform the last 3 seasons? It's not by accident that we were #1, #3, and #5 in total defense (YPG) the past three seasons, respectively. Against the pass (Passing YPG) they were #1, #6, and #5 the past three seasons, respectively. Against the run (rushing ypg) they were #8, #3, and #13, respectively, the past three seasons.

Rex has many flaws, but the man and/or his staff knows how to coach a defense. I don't think there's many better than him at it. You also know that you don't blind scheme a defense into those kind of numbers for 3 years. Teams catch on too much for that to be possible. Our defense doesn't have Ware or remotely competent safeties, but they get the job done. They are stout in the front seven, which isn't as sexy as the Giants rush, but they do their jobs and do them well.

[Smashmouth]

LOL. The Jets lack the 2 MOST IMPORTANT POSITIONS IN FOOTBALL (Elite QB & Pass rush) but the roster is still solid. And, oh, they can just find that anywhere and they'll be elite.

You're the one in lala land.

"Hey, the patient will be just fine if she wasn't brain dead and her heart worked on it's own."

You think the Jets roster is solid ? We have some solid core players but the roster is far from solid. We have aging LB's, No Safties, Crappy skill players on Offense, holes on the O-Line and to be honest over the past year our offense went from tough to dreadfully soft.

[HessStation]

Also having Greene aka the worst hands of any starting RB in the NFL, probably doesn't help land Manning.

[HessStation]

You think the Jets roster is solid ? We have some solid core players but the roster is far from solid. We have aging LB's, No Safties, Crappy skill players on Offense, holes on the O-Line and to be honest over the past year our offense went from tough to dreadfully soft.

Every roster has that including the Pats and Giants. Be realistic.

[SMC]

How is the roster full of players that are one of the worst in the NFL. Hunter and Smith I agree. I don't anticipate either starting next year. Who else?

Oh give me a break. Your response to my post was a tad over-dramatic and this is even worse. My earlier point wasn't that everyone on the Jets not amongst the elite in the NFL are garbage, and trying to make that point is just nonsense. The problem is that the "lower tier" starters, which every team has, are real low on the Jets. It's far from the majority, but it causes issues. The biggest issue is caused when one of them is the QB. There's definitely plenty of room to improve the roster (beyond just QB), but that goes for every team in the NFL. I'm pretty sure there's just a little more to this team than 4 players and 1 coach. Call me crazy, but I would think there's got to be at least a few players worth a damn amongst the other 49 on the active roster, don't you think?

Okay, I'll conceed that I was given to hyperbole.

At best I'll call the roster decent like JVOR said, but there are just far too many holes to claim it is "solid" or very talented.

Peyton and great QBs will mask those holes.

[SMC]

You think the Jets roster is solid ? We have some solid core players but the roster is far from solid. We have aging LB's, No Safties, Crappy skill players on Offense, holes on the O-Line and to be honest over the past year our offense went from tough to dreadfully soft.

JiF is calling it solid. I'm disagreeing with him. Pay attention, Smash. Thnx!

[Jets Voice of Reason]

Oh give me a break. Your response to my post was a tad over-dramatic and this is even worse. My earlier point wasn't that everyone on the Jets not amongst the elite in the NFL are garbage, and trying to make that point is just nonsense. The problem is that the "lower tier" starters, which every team has, are real low on the Jets. It's far from the majority, but it causes issues. The biggest issue is caused when one of them is the QB. There's definitely plenty of room to improve the roster (beyond just QB), but that goes for every team in the NFL. I'm pretty sure there's just a little more to this team than 4 players and 1 coach. Call me crazy, but I would think there's got to be at least a few players worth a damn amongst the other 49 on the active roster, don't you think?

Exactly. The Jets have utter crapola at RT, QB, and both safety spots. Everything else is serviceable at the worst.

I'd personally LOVE a better pass rusher. It'd greatly benefit the defense. That said, we have corners that can cover and stout run defenders up front. That's something that's being totally discounted here. We are a good defense that is one or maybe two elite pass rushers away from being an elite defense.

[SMC]

SMC, have you not watched our defense perform the last 3 seasons? It's not by accident that we were #1, #3, and #5 in total defense (YPG) the past three seasons, respectively. Against the pass (Passing YPG) they were #1, #6, and #5 the past three seasons, respectively. Against the run (rushing ypg) they were #8, #3, and #13, respectively, the past three seasons.

Rex has many flaws, but the man and/or his staff knows how to coach a defense. I don't think there's many better than him at it. You also know that you don't blind scheme a defense into those kind of numbers for 3 years. Teams catch on too much for that to be possible. Our defense doesn't have Ware or remotely competent safeties, but they get the job done. They are stout in the front seven, which isn't as sexy as the Giants rush, but they do their jobs and do them well.

JVOR, what does that have to do with my point on the roster?

Again, Rex is a BRILLIANT defensive mind. That is without question. His scheme is why the Jets have had a top 6 D the last 3 years and a winning record overall in that span.

[Smashmouth]

Every roster has that including the Pats and Giants. Be realistic.

Uh...... no every roster does not have that sorry Hess. The Pats Defense improved and they are very young in a lot of areas. Im positive we are not in that position. The Giants have an elite Defensive line which when hot can carry a defense they have done it on 2 SB runs now while the Jets have elite corner play they cant defend the middle of the field due to slow old LB's and Slow crappy Safties

[Smashmouth]

LOL. The Jets lack the 2 MOST IMPORTANT POSITIONS IN FOOTBALL (Elite QB & Pass rush) but the roster is still solid. And, oh, they can just find that anywhere and they'll be elite.

You're the one in lala land.

"Hey, the patient will be just fine if she wasn't brain dead and her heart worked on it's own."

JiF is calling it solid. I'm disagreeing with him. Pay attention, Smash. Thnx!

Were you being sarcastic with the roster is still soild I bolded ? It looks like to me all your calling for is an elite QB and a passrusher.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

JVOR, what does that have to do with my point on the roster?

Again, Rex is a BRILLIANT defensive mind. That is without question. His scheme is why the Jets have had a top 6 D the last 3 years and a winning record overall in that span.

My point was that our defense is still good despite having the safety issues. It's talented beyond Revis and Harris. We have a good defensive core, even if it needs a facelift in some areas.

The offense is where we need a serious infusion of talent, but really, it's missing like 3 players other than Manning. A RT, a guard to replace Moore in the long-term, and a #1 WR with size and speed. And seeing how this conversation is based on why Manning would find it appealing here, it's really not terribly far away since two of those 3 things are not premium NFL positions.

[bbatelli]

What about 2 years from now with no cap room and no manning? We would be at square one, no?

Yeah, but what about 7 years from now when we're back to square one, huh? What then?

[JustInFudge]

You're being Semantic Suzy now. The Jets are a "solid" roster in the same way a Buick with no steering wheel or transmission is a "solid" car.

No the Jets are solid as in, they have a solid roster.

Whatever, we can all agree to disagree on this. They are lacking a pass rush and QB. Sucks. So are a lot of teams. Fill those 2 spots, the team is elite IMO. We can go in circles on this, but I dont really care to. SMC is lala land these days.

At least you maintain a stable position, all day, every day. lol

[SMC]

My point was that our defense is still good despite having the safety issues. It's talented beyond Revis and Harris. We have a good defensive core, even if it needs a facelift in some areas.

The offense is where we need a serious infusion of talent, but really, it's missing like 3 players other than Manning. A RT, a guard to replace Moore in the long-term, and a #1 WR with size and speed. And seeing how this conversation is based on why Manning would find it appealing here, it's really not terribly far away since two of those 3 things are not premium NFL positions.

The Jets D is solid, without question, but that's because of Rex. Rex can take a college team, play them in the NFL, and still have a top 10 defense. He's that good.

I disagree on good defensive core, but not so strongly as it's worth debating. Rex overcomes a lot. And, I agree with you on the O, but will point out that a #1 WR with size and speed is pretty difficult to find. The Jets came close with Braylon, but let him go to re-sign Asstonio and bring in Plaxasaurus.