Pac Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Damn right I am. Definitely interested to hear from Pac after yesterday's interesting turn of events. Vote: Pac what turn of events are you referring to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 I'll unvote for now to give everyone a chance to chime in, but at this point it's pretty elementary. We need to lynch one of the two of them today, without question. The real point of debate is which one. The rule of thumb says to lynch the counter-claimant but frankly it doesn't make one damn bit of sense for either of these guys to reveal as cop if scum (although Pac had already hit L-2, but he seemed to be getting ready to reveal even before that). The part I don't like about Pac's reveal is that as strange as his reaction seemed yesterday, it seems that much more strange if he was the cop. Not to mention, I can't think of one circumstance that makes sense to have scum sell one of their own out with a day two cop reveal after having one of their own lynched on day one. Best case scenario for them they're trading two of themselves for the cop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 what turn of events are you referring to? The whole AVM thing seemed a little odd to me, but obviously that's only a small part of the equation now. Definitely need to let everyone chime in this time around given the circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Unvote Wtf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 We need to lynch one of the two of them today, without question. The real point of debate is which one. Or we can kill neither. Pac, if you're really a cop, investigate me tonight. You'll find I'm telling the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 I have one random thought to throw out here, although I've already talked myself out of it, but just something to think about I guess. My problem is I don't see any reason it would make sense for either of these to be fake reveals. Unless, of course, Pac is scum and figured he was a dead man and was hoping to take out 80 before going down. Although I can't imagine that would possibly work (I'm sure most will probably favor lynching Pac over 80). I think he'd just as soon claim another role trying to either get out of the lynch all together or out another town power role, given 80 didn't say he had a guilty on Pac. So the question is, is it possible that there were two investigative roles in the game? The only reason I could see that would be in order to balance out the whole lack of info given on death situation. While I could see that, on the other hand, you think Nolder would have gotten rid of one of them once he added alignments to be revealed upon death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 So the question is, is it possible that there were two investigative roles in the game? Only one way to find out. Pac investigates me tonite, I investigate him. Lynch someone else today. We have mislynches to burn, I imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Or we can kill neither. Pac, if you're really a cop, investigate me tonight. You'll find I'm telling the truth. While I'd normally be opposed to this, I am starting to talk myself out of it, I'm as getting a bit paranoid about how badly we're going to **** ourselves over if it turns out you're both telling the truth and we proceed to lynch you both. Ugh. This is the situation where lack of info could certainly get us into trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 I have one random thought to throw out here, although I've already talked myself out of it, but just something to think about I guess. My problem is I don't see any reason it would make sense for either of these to be fake reveals. Unless, of course, Pac is scum and figured he was a dead man and was hoping to take out 80 before going down. Although I can't imagine that would possibly work (I'm sure most will probably favor lynching Pac over 80). I think he'd just as soon claim another role trying to either get out of the lynch all together or out another town power role, given 80 didn't say he had a guilty on Pac. So the question is, is it possible that there were two investigative roles in the game? The only reason I could see that would be in order to balance out the whole lack of info given on death situation. While I could see that, on the other hand, you think Nolder would have gotten rid of one of them once he added alignments to be revealed upon death. exactly.. if I was scum I'd claim Doc and then try and fight the counter claimiant - if there was one. I know full well that I'd likely be lynched when I claimed but wanted to get all that out there in the open ie investigation results and the idiocy of me fake claiming when it's shown that I'm town. 80 started to sway me these last couple posts but I can't get over the fact that he says Nolder called him a finder... My role PM has a pic of a guy that looks like Wyatt Earp and he says I'm the Sherrif. 2 cops in a 12 man game sounds crazy... With no guilties and no other hot leads I have to vote 80 on the fact that it's highly unlikey there are 2 cops and I don't think there's any chance Nolder called him a finder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 oh and I also thought I might be oppositte cop (or whatever it's called) but that was ruled out when both Leelou and BG came back clean.. that would mean they are both scum. In a 12 man game 4 scum seems out of whack.. not to mention I'd have to have hit scum on back to back investigation results which is highly unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetscode1 Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 oh and I also thought I might be oppositte cop (or whatever it's called) but that was ruled out when both Leelou and BG came back clean.. that would mean they are both scum. In a 12 man game 4 scum seems out of whack.. not to mention I'd have to have hit scum on back to back investigation results which is highly unlikely. So your saying you investigated Leelou nights 1 and BG night 2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetscode1 Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 what turn of events are you referring to? The whole AVM thing seemed a little odd to me, but obviously that's only a small part of the equation now. Definitely need to let everyone chime in this time around given the circumstances. The first question to come to mind... @ Pac, if you suspected 80 was scum posing as Cop why the quick vote on AVM, then a quick retreat (awaiting a counter claim which only you could claim), then a quick return to AVM...I'm guessing the normal response would have been to doubt AVM guilt since you doubted 80 could also be a Cop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetscode1 Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Only one way to find out. Pac investigates me tonite, I investigate him. Lynch someone else today. We have mislynches to burn, I imagine. Not sure I like this approach... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Why would Pac be surprised to see AVM flip scum? If scum false reveals Cop, it is imperative for them to hand town one of their scum mates for credibility. Otherwise they trade a scum member for 1 townie and the potential to ID the real Cop, no guarantee. Which would be stupid after losing Christine D1... So why try to stall the lynch on AVM? If Pac knew there wouldn't be a cop counter claim unless he himself made it, then stalling for AVM would have only allowed another potential claim/counter-claim scenario. Not sure how that benefits the town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 I'll answer the questions but at work.. have to chime in here and there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 If Pac is Sheriff, and 80 is lying. Then why was Pac talking about his theory that there is 3 scum and an SK during last night's night phase? If Pac knew Christine and AVM were both dead and scum, and his theory was that there was only 3 scum in the game, then presumably Pac's already got the 3rd scum member identified in 80. If Pac had counter-claimed at night after AVM's lynch, then at least the Doc could have self-protected. If Pac wasn't lying the worst case scenario is that scum shoots Pac, we lose the cop, but in doing so we see Pac's town alignment and come into D3 and lynch 80. Thus killing our 3rd scum in 3 lynches. By letting the Cop protect 80 on N2, Pac allows scum to take a shot at the rest of the crowd looking for the Doc. I don't see how any of this is pro-town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Also, IF Pac believed that there might be 2 investigative roles, as he says, then why not view 80 and vet this suspicion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 One reason I want to believe Pac is that on D1, JF80 talked about how he has a good read on Pac's scumtells... and yet he never viewed Pac. Instead 80's come back and given results on AVM and BG - the two people that yours truly singled out in the respective night phases he viewed them. Also, 80 only hopped on Pac and brought up knowing his scumtell AFTER I started FOS'ing Pac. Some of you might recall me remarking at Pac's defensiveness to a vote from 80 and FOS from the Ape being something he'd normally shrug off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 It makes NO sense to me that neither of these so-called cops viewed JC. I mean JC came out of D1 damn-near confirmed town, makes perfect sense to test that before assuming it and giving him a free ride. I'd have viewed JC. Not someone that was obviously going to be a lynch target after the N1 talk, in AVM. I guess I subscribe to the view the inactive / low-heat players philosophy. ****, if 80 was just going to follow my suspicions on every viewing... then why not view me to make sure I'm not taking him on a ride? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 So your saying you investigated Leelou nights 1 and BG night 2? Yes - that's why yesterday I had changed my mind on Leelou and mentioned my suspicion of BG. My will stated I was the cop and I looked at BG N2 in case I had died yesterday. The first question to come to mind... @ Pac, if you suspected 80 was scum posing as Cop why the quick vote on AVM, then a quick retreat (awaiting a counter claim which only you could claim), then a quick return to AVM...I'm guessing the normal response would have been to doubt AVM guilt since you doubted 80 could also be a Cop? The quick vote/unvote on AVM was a show for scum.. I still wasn't sure if there were going to be multiple cop claims (like the police academy game) but I didn't want scum to think I was scared of voting AVM which I figured might be a tipoff that I was cop. I know it sounds convoluted but it was a quick lynch and I had to make split decisions. I was hoping when I unvoted and asked for everyone to chime in that it would delay the lynch. Figured I'd counter if I saw no other cop claims and ask for Doc protect. You guys never let me get there though.. again... the reason I didn't IMMEDIATELY counter is because I doubted my sanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 I moved to Christine. EP and Leelou quickly followed. This is why EP is on the bubble for me, he's been so scummy he's got to be town, but BG just avoided the whole thing and Leelou came late with the bus after playing very clean D1 going back and forth with her votes between JC and EP and nobody else ... and that is why Leelou is in my top 3. I called her out as scum early D1, sticking to that. Revisiting vote movement. 80 was on EP, AVM, EP, Vic, Pac, JC, in order throughout D1. We know 80 to be bloodthirsty, so it strikes me odd he never voted for Christine. If we are to believe 80 is scum, Pac town, and Leelou, BG town based on Pac's results - then Brett, EP and JC are where we'll find the remaining scum. If we lynch 80 and get it right, then town should roll with Pac getting at least one more investigation with Doc protection. If we are to believe Pac is scum, 80 town, and BG town based on 80's results - then Brett, EP, Leelou or JC. We've still got some work to do. The pragmatic thing to do is lynch 80. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 If Pac is Sheriff, and 80 is lying. Then why was Pac talking about his theory that there is 3 scum and an SK during last night's night phase? because if 80 is scum then it would have been ridiculous for him to claim cop and give us AVM. They'd be gambling there isn't a real cop in the game and they could skate free. as far fetched as it sounds I thought it might be possible he's a rogue SK that figured he wasn't going to make it. but the lack of kills has changed my mind.. maybe there's 4 scum and the town is jacked. but I'll admit it doesn't explain why 80 would potentially give up 2 of their 3 remaining #'s. The reason I'm comfortable with my vote on 80 is because he said he was finder.. given our wild west theme and larping mod I doubt he wouldn't flavor the role pm up a tad by calling him deputy or something.. I'm Sherrif. 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 also.. if I'm lying why did I do an abrupt 180 on Leelou after a night phase and immediately ask 80 what he was called in his role PM to start off today.. I only had 1 vote at the time - there was no reason to think I would have piled up votes as quickly as I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 but I disagree with 80.. he or I should get lynched today. now that I've gotten a chance to say everything I wanted to I'm fine if it's me. ask yourselves though.. if 80 role PM really says "finder" why would he suggest lynching anyone other than me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 To go further on potential reasons why either one of them might be fake claiming, one reason I did think of as possible for 80. Given AVM's situation, it's possible the scum team knew he wasn't really going to be able to play, and knowing he was already going to get some heat going into D2, they may just figured they might as well sacrifice him while in turn essentially vetting one of their guys as the cop. Of course the issue with that is they would have had to realize sooner or later the real cop would counter-claim, which is obviously the hole in the logic there, but quite frankly none of the possible scenarios to explain this situation completely make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leelou Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 I think one of the two should be lynched today. I think 80 would be the better lynch after all the info, but I've been really sick all day and can't think clearly right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetscode1 Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Just started to think it through...but... 1. If 80 scum...very risky move to offer up AVM on Day 2 after losing Christine Day 1...doubt he could assume this would work...though his play otherwise came across slightly scum... 2. If Pac scum...why doesn't he just claim Doc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetscode1 Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 It makes NO sense to me that neither of these so-called cops viewed JC. I mean JC came out of D1 damn-near confirmed town, makes perfect sense to test that before assuming it and giving him a free ride. I'd have viewed JC. Not someone that was obviously going to be a lynch target after the N1 talk, in AVM. I guess I subscribe to the view the inactive / low-heat players philosophy. ****, if 80 was just going to follow my suspicions on every viewing... then why not view me to make sure I'm not taking him on a ride? Reminder to discuss at end game...thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Hi from my bed. I'm alive and hurting. I will be back tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 also.. if I'm lying why did I do an abrupt 180 on Leelou after a night phase and immediately ask 80 what he was called in his role PM to start off today.. I only had 1 vote at the time - there was no reason to think I would have piled up votes as quickly as I did. Technically you didn't do a 180. You told her you noticed her ninja hammer, and then last night you said you felt alright about her. Could easily be scum comments and not cop remarks. As for coming into today, you had to come in prepared to save your a$$. If 80 didn't give us a guilty on someone, it was obvious you were the lynch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 because if 80 is scum then it would have been ridiculous for him to claim cop and give us AVM. They'd be gambling there isn't a real cop in the game and they could skate free. as far fetched as it sounds I thought it might be possible he's a rogue SK that figured he wasn't going to make it. but the lack of kills has changed my mind.. maybe there's 4 scum and the town is jacked. but I'll admit it doesn't explain why 80 would potentially give up 2 of their 3 remaining #'s. The reason I'm comfortable with my vote on 80 is because he said he was finder.. given our wild west theme and larping mod I doubt he wouldn't flavor the role pm up a tad by calling him deputy or something.. I'm Sherrif. 100%. The reason you SHOULD be comfortable with your vote on 80 is because he claimed the role you are claiming. NOT because you are gaming the mod about the semantics of calling it finder vs. sheriff. Also, I remember a number of times early in my mafia career you chastising me about not "shouting my role from the rooftops" in my reveals. So I'm surprised you sort of lolly-gagged your way towards this counter-claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 To go further on potential reasons why either one of them might be fake claiming, one reason I did think of as possible for 80. Given AVM's situation, it's possible the scum team knew he wasn't really going to be able to play, and knowing he was already going to get some heat going into D2, they may just figured they might as well sacrifice him while in turn essentially vetting one of their guys as the cop. Of course the issue with that is they would have had to realize sooner or later the real cop would counter-claim, which is obviously the hole in the logic there, but quite frankly none of the possible scenarios to explain this situation completely make sense. You seem to be breezing right over the simplest of scenarios... that Pac is false claiming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I think one of the two should be lynched today. I think 80 would be the better lynch after all the info, but I've been really sick all day and can't think clearly right now. Too bad we have this dilemma, because crap posts like this make me want to take your head off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Just started to think it through...but... 1. If 80 scum...very risky move to offer up AVM on Day 2 after losing Christine Day 1...doubt he could assume this would work...though his play otherwise came across slightly scum... 2. If Pac scum...why doesn't he just claim Doc? 1. Agreed. 2. Not getting roles in coroner's reports might be tied to this, if Pac is lying. Otherwise, good question. It might be a case where Pac's willing to sacrifice himself for the Cop, if the 4th scum is buried deep. One scenario I just thought of is if Vic was the cop. Maybe they rolled the dice having 80 false-claim, then Pac tries to stall it for a counter-claim. One doesn't come. Then Pac counters today, meaning they've assumed there's no cop, and it will cost them their 3rd scum member, but the result is scum posing at cop and leading town through the rest of the game... ballsy, but you have to consider how desperate they probably are after 2 lynches, 2 scum. Reminder to discuss at end game...thanks in advance. What? How to use the finder role? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Hi from my bed. I'm alive and hurting. I will be back tomorrow. Glad your ok girly. Get some rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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