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49'ers apparently want to trade up to the 13th spot


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  It's a rumor.  There might be some truth to it, there might be BS from teams trying to trade down.  Nothing has come out of the 49ers camp.   

The other rumors, not from the 49ers camp, is that they'd give up 31 & 34 and nothing else for 13 or 14.   

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But that would mean we got a #1 and a #2 and a #3 for Revis.  Or if we traded SF's high #2 for a #1 next year then it would be two #1's and a #3 for Revis.     Gee, you mean the #13 pick has more va

Teh **** are you talking about?   We are talking about the value of compensation. We didn't make a player-for-player trade, we made a player-for-picks trade, and people are unhappy about the amount

They're nervous about not re-signing Justin Smith to superdollars after this year and want to get his replacement a year before he leaves rather than forcing the position in round 1 of next year's dra

lately me too. Jets get Austin at 9, Eifert at 13 and declare the offense open for business. 

 

Or.  Austin/Patterson, BAP pass rusher, Ertz in the 2nd and call the offense open for business?

 

Or and probably better yet.  Austin/Patterson, BAP pass rusher, Warford, Kelce, Gillislee late and really call the offense open for business.

 

I clearly need to be in the board room on draft day.

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That would be nice but if you look at the trades from last year most of the teams moving back got less than the chart value.

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000d5d828a1a27/article/nfl-draft-trade-tracker-details-of-all-the-moves

 

The trades looks to be in range points wise as your rarely going to have a trade that going to perfectly add up. Those who take less value are those who are all for trading down and if we're in the mold of trading down no matter what then we will most likely like those team settle quickly rather than those who have the mind set of stay put unless they get an above market offer.

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http://walterfootball.com/draftchart.php

 

 

If they were interested in trading up the #13, they probably will need to do:

 

NYJ #13 and 1st in 2013

 

for 

 

SF #31 in 2013 and 1st in 2014 at the very minimum 

 

That's what I was thinking, but they have so many 2013 picks that they may part with those more readily. Plus the Chiefs' second is a pretty appealing pick for yet another trade to net a future first.

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But that would mean we got a #1 and a #2 and a #3 for Revis.  Or if we traded SF's high #2 for a #1 next year then it would be two #1's and a #3 for Revis.  

 

Gee, you mean the #13 pick has more value than the #26 pick even though they're both 1st round picks? I'm not buying it.  Jets suck.

 

 

This is what I hated about the Abraham trade.  I understand and support holding out for a first, but I don't like the fact that they let the Falcons screw around to get the last pick in the round and ship it to us like they were doing us a favor.  

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Or.  Austin/Patterson, BAP pass rusher, Ertz in the 2nd and call the offense open for business?

 

Or and probably better yet.  Austin/Patterson, BAP pass rusher, Warford, Kelce, Gillislee late and really call the offense open for business.

 

I clearly need to be in the board room on draft day.

 

I don't even care about BAP pass rusher. Rex's D has always been about scheme pressure. Dewan Landry gets sacks on a blitz.  plus with Rex being a lame duck Idzik might have a new coach who wants a different type of pass rusher. 

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With so many teams looking to trade down this year, the team trading down will likely get lesser value.

 

If we miss out on Eifert, #39 seems like a good spot to grab Ertz from Stanford.

 

I see those teams 10-20 with bigger needs. Bears may be one of those teams that may pull the trigger but I see them looking more into a RT or WR. If the Bears don't take him then he may slide down to Houston/Packers who may instead rather a WR. I would take that gamble in allowing him to slide to the 31st pick If we had it.

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I know you are being facetious, but it is amazing how many people don't get this.

 

 Not really about numbers.     I mean guys like Marino and Rodgers were taken in the 20s,  guess they were worth less than guys in the teens.

Hell I guess Mangold is worth far less than DBrick, even though Dbrick was taken at 4 and Mangold at 29.       If you go by just the numbers,  4 is worth more than 29.  But if you go by actual players  taken,  Mangold has been a far better player than DBrick.       

 

 It's always about players.   Teams that get caught up in  looking at this pick is worth this, so lets trade for this and this, instead of looking at what their scouts and their staff think are good players and where they might land, are teams that wind up being like the Jets.    Always rebuilding.

Edited by pedro55
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I don't even care about BAP pass rusher. Rex's D has always been about scheme pressure. Dewan Landry gets sacks on a blitz.  plus with Rex being a lame duck Idzik might have a new coach who wants a different type of pass rusher. 

 

That's nice but I care.  I'd like to have a player who can get a consistent pass rush without having to blitz a safety.  Now, more than ever since Revis isnt around to give Rex that type of blitzing flexibility.

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That's nice but I care.  I'd like to have a player who can get a consistent pass rush without having to blitz a safety.  Now, more than ever since Revis isnt around to give Rex that type of blitzing flexibility.

DPR is a nice to have. the offense is a tire fire. 

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 Not really about numbers.     I mean guys like Marino and Rodgers were taken in the 20s,  guess they were worth less than guys in the teens.

Hell I guess Mangold is worth far less than DBrick, even though Dbrick was taken at 4 and Mangold at 29.       If you go by just the numbers,  4 is worth more than 29.  But if you go by actual players  taken,  Mangold has been a far better player than DBrick.       

 

 It's always about players.   Teams that get caught up in  looking at this pick is worth this, so lets trade for this and this, instead of looking at what their scouts and their staff think are good players and where they might land, are teams that wind up being like the Jets.    Always rebuilding.

 

 

Teh **** are you talking about?

 

We are talking about the value of compensation. We didn't make a player-for-player trade, we made a player-for-picks trade, and people are unhappy about the amount of picks we got. My point is that the value of the 1st rounder we got, is more than the handful of picks people wanted. 

 

Picks are like currency.

 

I'm saying we bought Revis for a crisp dollar bill, while others are saying they would have preferred getting a quarter, a dime and a nickel. Sure, it's more pieces of currency, but not nearly as much value.

 

I'm not sure why you keep trying to correct me saying "it's not about numbers, it's about players". You aren't actually saying anything. Of course it's about players. But at this point in time, where we are assessing whether we got good compensation for Revis, there is absolutely no way to make the argument about players. I don't give a sh*t where Rodgers was drafted, you aren't backing up your point.

 

Veteran players, even great ones, rarely fetch a 1st round pick in trade... especially a high first rounder. That first rounder can be "broken" like a dollar bill into smaller change, but it'll be the equivalent of a dollar, and not the pennies on the dollar that some fans are upset we didn't get because they wanted "more" picks, rather than high value picks. 

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I don't even care about BAP pass rusher. Rex's D has always been about scheme pressure. Dewan Landry gets sacks on a blitz.  plus with Rex being a lame duck Idzik might have a new coach who wants a different type of pass rusher. 

 

Yeah, I'm starting to really think the same thing. I'm thinking all offense early. And def one of the big Guards. 

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I'm thinking along best case scenario...if they could trade back from 9 to the early 20's and then get another 2nd round pick...then you go something like:

 

1. Chance Warmack

1. Tyler Eifert

2. Jonathan Franklin 

2. DeAndre Hopkins 

3. Brian Winters

4. Safety

5. Safety

6. DL

7. LB

 

That would make me super happy. 

Edited by HessStation
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Teh **** are you talking about?

 

We are talking about the value of compensation. We didn't make a player-for-player trade, we made a player-for-picks trade, and people are unhappy about the amount of picks we got. My point is that the value of the 1st rounder we got, is more than the handful of picks people wanted. 

 

Picks are like currency.

 

I'm saying we bought Revis for a crisp dollar bill, while others are saying they would have preferred getting a quarter, a dime and a nickel. Sure, it's more pieces of currency, but not nearly as much value.

 

I'm not sure why you keep trying to correct me saying "it's not about numbers, it's about players". You aren't actually saying anything. Of course it's about players. But at this point in time, where we are assessing whether we got good compensation for Revis, there is absolutely no way to make the argument about players. I don't give a sh*t where Rodgers was drafted, you aren't backing up your point.

 

Veteran players, even great ones, rarely fetch a 1st round pick in trade... especially a high first rounder. That first rounder can be "broken" like a dollar bill into smaller change, but it'll be the equivalent of a dollar, and not the pennies on the dollar that some fans are upset we didn't get because they wanted "more" picks, rather than high value picks. 

 

  I don't care what people value a draft pick at because most of that is BS.   In the end it is about the players they draft.   And I think they have a better chance at drafting a good player at #13 then they would if they got some 2nd, 4th and 5th rounder.   And who knows what they would have received next year.  

I'm ok with the trade.  Of course we all would have liked more draft picks, but #13 and a 3rd next year is fine as long as they draft well.

 

 To me it's about who they draft.   Adding points to this pick or that pick don't mean anything if the team can't draft.  If they got a 1,2,3,4 and a 1,2,3,4 next season and all those guys sucked because they can't draft,  who cares what point values those picks amount to.

Edited by pedro55
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  I don't care what people value a draft pick at because most of that is BS.   In the end it is about the players they draft.   And I think they have a better chance at drafting a good player at #13 then they would if they got some 2nd, 4th and 5th rounder.   And who knows what they would have received next year.  

I'm ok with the trade.  Of course we all would have liked more draft picks, but #13 and a 3rd next year is fine as long as they draft well.

 

 To me it's about who they draft.   Adding points to this pick or that pick don't mean anything if the team can't draft.  If they got a 1,2,3,4 and a 1,2,3,4 next season and all those guys sucked because they can't draft,  who cares what point values those picks amount to.

 

Uh, that's probably why people value the #13 higher than some 2nd, 4th, and 5th rounder. 

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  I don't care what people value a draft pick at because most of that is BS.   In the end it is about the players they draft.   And I think they have a better chance at drafting a good player at #13 then they would if they got some 2nd, 4th and 5th rounder.   And who knows what they would have received next year.  

I'm ok with the trade.  Of course we all would have liked more draft picks, but #13 and a 3rd next year is fine as long as they draft well.

 

 To me it's about who they draft.   Adding points to this pick or that pick don't mean anything if the team can't draft.  If they got a 1,2,3,4 and a 1,2,3,4 next season and all those guys sucked because they can't draft,  who cares what point values those picks amount to.

 

Everything about the draft, is contingent upon them drafting well. That is a given, you don't have to keep saying it. I think we ALL agree that they cannot waste picks.

 

I think I get what you are trying to say, but the discussion of "did we get enough compensation for Revis" is one thing, the "if we don't draft well, then trading Revis was a waste" is another.

 

Ultimately, we got enough compensation, all things considered... and where the pick lies in the draft DOES matter, it's not debatable. You can't say "well so and so was taken here, and so and so was taken there, so..." that's an argument informed by hindsight and how players matriculated. That's not he conversation we are having. Early picks are worth more than later picks. Period. That's all we are talking about. 

 

Uh, that's probably why people value the #13 higher than some 2nd, 4th, and 5th rounder. 

 

LOL, yeah... sigh.

 

  I'm happy they got the 13th pick and now its on Idzik to draft well.   

 

Me too. *high five*

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I'm thinking along best case scenario...if they could trade back from 9 to the early 20's and then get another 2nd round pick...then you go something like:

 

1. Chance Warmack

1. Tyler Eifert

2. Jonathan Franklin 

2. DeAndre Hopkins 

3. Brian Winters

4. Safety

5. Safety

6. DL

7. LB

 

That would make me super happy. 

 

Deandre Hopkins looking like a sure thng to go anywhere from 16-32. If not earlier. but i like where your head is at

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 Not really about numbers.     I mean guys like Marino and Rodgers were taken in the 20s,  guess they were worth less than guys in the teens.

Hell I guess Mangold is worth far less than DBrick, even though Dbrick was taken at 4 and Mangold at 29.       If you go by just the numbers,  4 is worth more than 29.  But if you go by actual players  taken,  Mangold has been a far better player than DBrick.       

 

 It's always about players.   Teams that get caught up in  looking at this pick is worth this, so lets trade for this and this, instead of looking at what their scouts and their staff think are good players and where they might land, are teams that wind up being like the Jets.    Always rebuilding.

 

Of course the quality of the player is the ultimate deciding factor in how it impacts the team, but that does not dictate the value that a pick possesses at the time of the trade, before the draft even occurs.  It's impossible to evaluate that way, because there are way too many other variables at play there.  There's absolutely no way to know what player the team who traded away the pick would have taken, or even what player the team will end up picking, and how either of those players will turn out, at the time the trade is made.

 

If it turns out Idzik makes horrible use of those picks, that is an obvious issue with him and he will deservedly get crap for that, but that has no impact on what value Tampa felt those picks held when they gave them up, as in all likelihood, they wouldn't have even done the same thing with those picks that the Jets will.  Just look at the Jets last year, it wouldn't matter if the picks the Broncos got for Tebow last year turned out to be absolutely colossal busts who never played a single snap, that would do nothing to change the fact that it was a horrendous trade for the Jets.  Just like if the Jets had traded Revis to Tampa for a 7th round pick, and that 7th rounder turned into a CB better than Revis from day one, it wouldn't change the fact that the deal they agreed to was still absolutely moronic.

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oh lord i hope we didnt just trade revis to draft a ****in cb. wre need to score some god damned points!!!!

I am the first one to say I want a WR in round 1, I am even willing to go 2 WR's in round 1. I was just stating something i saw.

 

I am the biggest Patterson fan out there.

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Yeah, I'm starting to really think the same thing. I'm thinking all offense early. And def one of the big Guards. 

Our next coach might want 4-3 all the time. I dont think rex has any input on picks.  That is why I roar when I read these little blurbs about who Rex loves in the draft.  If by coincidence they both are on the same page........

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Of course the quality of the player is the ultimate deciding factor in how it impacts the team, but that does not dictate the value that a pick possesses at the time of the trade, before the draft even occurs.  It's impossible to evaluate that way, because there are way too many other variables at play there.  There's absolutely no way to know what player the team who traded away the pick would have taken, or even what player the team will end up picking, and how either of those players will turn out, at the time the trade is made.

 

If it turns out Idzik makes horrible use of those picks, that is an obvious issue with him and he will deservedly get crap for that, but that has no impact on what value Tampa felt those picks held when they gave them up, as in all likelihood, they wouldn't have even done the same thing with those picks that the Jets will.  Just look at the Jets last year, it wouldn't matter if the picks the Broncos got for Tebow last year turned out to be absolutely colossal busts who never played a single snap, that would do nothing to change the fact that it was a horrendous trade for the Jets.  Just like if the Jets had traded Revis to Tampa for a 7th round pick, and that 7th rounder turned into a CB better than Revis from day one, it wouldn't change the fact that the deal they agreed to was still absolutely moronic.

 

  If you're talking about next years draft or a late round pick, I agree.   But the 13th pick, the Jets have to have a plan on who they want to take.  And if they trade down come draft day, they need to know why they want to trade down.  '

Obviously in the end the Bucs gave into the fact that Revis was better than anybody they could draft at #13.  The Jets should already know who they might take with that pick, otherwise it is just trading a number that means nothing.

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  If you're talking about next years draft or a late round pick, I agree.   But the 13th pick, the Jets have to have a plan on who they want to take.  And if they trade down come draft day, they need to know why they want to trade down.  '

Obviously in the end the Bucs gave into the fact that Revis was better than anybody they could draft at #13.  The Jets should already know who they might take with that pick, otherwise it is just trading a number that means nothing.

 

What are you debating? 

 

The Jets are unlikely to make a move out of 9 or 13 until they're on the clock. They'll know who they like there, and who they expect to still be available in the 30-40 range. They'll have their whole draft board out in front of them, and see the next 31 best players available according to their scouting, and make the move based on that - just like any other team in the league would do. 

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  If you're talking about next years draft or a late round pick, I agree.   But the 13th pick, the Jets have to have a plan on who they want to take.  And if they trade down come draft day, they need to know why they want to trade down.  '

Obviously in the end the Bucs gave into the fact that Revis was better than anybody they could draft at #13.  The Jets should already know who they might take with that pick, otherwise it is just trading a number that means nothing.

 

I'm pretty sure they know who their top ranked player would be at #13.  And if they traded that pick down to #18 or #23 or #31 they will have a list at least that long.  Whoever is the top ranked player on their list is who they should take.  Trading Revis doesn't change that.

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Round 1
 #
Value Round 2 
#
Value Round 3
#
Value Round 4 
#
Value Round 5 
#
Value Round 6 
#
Value Round 7 
#
Value 1 3000 33 580 65 266 97 112 129 43 161 27 193 14 2 2600 34 570 66 260 98 108 130 42 162 27 194 14 3 2200 35 560 67 255 99 104 131 41 163 26 195 13 4 1800 36 550 68 250 100 100 132 40 164 26 196 13 5 1700 37 540 69 245 101 96 133 40 165 25 197 13 6 1600 38 530 70 240 102 92 134 39 166 25 198 12 7 1500 39 520 71 235 103 88 135 39 167 25 199 12 8 1400 40 510 72 230 104 86 136 38 168 24 200 11 9 1350 41 500 73 225 105 84 137 38 169 24 201 11 10 1300 42 490 74 220 106 82 138 37 170 23 202 11 11 1250 43 480 75 215 107 80 139 37 171 23 203 10 12 1200 44 470 76 210 108 78 140 36 172 23 204 10 13 1150 45 460 77 205 109 76 141 36 173 22 205 9 14 1100 46 450 78 200 110 74 142 35 174 22 206 9 15 1050 47 440 79 195 111 72 143 35 175 21 207 9 16 1000 48 430 80 190 112 70 144 34 176 21 208 8 17 950 49 420 81 185 113 68 145 34 177 21 209 8 18 900 50 400 82 180 114 66 146 33 178 20 210 7 19 875 51 390 83 175 115 64 147 33 179 20 211 7 20 850 52 380 84 170 116 62 148 32 180 19 212 7 21 800 53 370 85 165 117 60 149 32 181 19 213 6 22 780 54 360 86 160 118 58 150 31 182 19 214 6 23 760 55 350 87 155 119 56 151 31 183 18 215 5 24 740 56 340 88 150 120 54 152 31 184 18 216 5 25 720 57 330 89 145 121 52 153 30 185 17 217 5 26 700 58 320 90 140 122 50 154 30 186 17 218 4 27 680 59 310 91 136 123 49 155 29 187 17 219 4 28 660 60 300 92 132 124 48 156 29 188 16 220 3 29 640 61 292 93 128 125 47 157 29 189 16 221 3 30 620 62 286 94 124 126 46 158 28 190 15 222 3 31 600 63 276 95 120 127 45 159 28 191 15 223 2 32 590 64 270 96 116 128 44 160 27 192 15 224 2
 

 

Edited by FoxJet
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Round 1

 #

Value Round 2 

#

Value Round 3

#

Value Round 4 

#

Value Round 5 

#

Value Round 6 

#

Value Round 7 

#

Value 1 3000 33 580 65 266 97 112 129 43 161 27 193 14 2 2600 34 570 66 260 98 108 130 42 162 27 194 14 3 2200 35 560 67 255 99 104 131 41 163 26 195 13 4 1800 36 550 68 250 100 100 132 40 164 26 196 13 5 1700 37 540 69 245 101 96 133 40 165 25 197 13 6 1600 38 530 70 240 102 92 134 39 166 25 198 12 7 1500 39 520 71 235 103 88 135 39 167 25 199 12 8 1400 40 510 72 230 104 86 136 38 168 24 200 11 9 1350 41 500 73 225 105 84 137 38 169 24 201 11 10 1300 42 490 74 220 106 82 138 37 170 23 202 11 11 1250 43 480 75 215 107 80 139 37 171 23 203 10 12 1200 44 470 76 210 108 78 140 36 172 23 204 10 13 1150 45 460 77 205 109 76 141 36 173 22 205 9 14 1100 46 450 78 200 110 74 142 35 174 22 206 9 15 1050 47 440 79 195 111 72 143 35 175 21 207 9 16 1000 48 430 80 190 112 70 144 34 176 21 208 8 17 950 49 420 81 185 113 68 145 34 177 21 209 8 18 900 50 400 82 180 114 66 146 33 178 20 210 7 19 875 51 390 83 175 115 64 147 33 179 20 211 7 20 850 52 380 84 170 116 62 148 32 180 19 212 7 21 800 53 370 85 165 117 60 149 32 181 19 213 6 22 780 54 360 86 160 118 58 150 31 182 19 214 6 23 760 55 350 87 155 119 56 151 31 183 18 215 5 24 740 56 340 88 150 120 54 152 31 184 18 216 5 25 720 57 330 89 145 121 52 153 30 185 17 217 5 26 700 58 320 90 140 122 50 154 30 186 17 218 4 27 680 59 310 91 136 123 49 155 29 187 17 219 4 28 660 60 300 92 132 124 48 156 29 188 16 220 3 29 640 61 292 93 128 125 47 157 29 189 16 221 3 30 620 62 286 94 124 126 46 158 28 190 15 222 3 31 600 63 276 95 120 127 45 159 28 191 15 223 2 32 590 64 270 96 116 128 44 160 27 192 15 224 2

 

 

dude

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According to that chart 31 and 34 would be a slight overpay. I would immediately looked to flip one of the early seconds for a 2014 first, I think. 

 

I noted that would be all for it if someone's willing to do it.  Then we'll have ended up with two #1s and a #3 for Revis.

 

And you never know how high that might be.  Could get really lucky and have it turn into a top 10 pick (to go along with our own naturally-earned top 5 pick, lol).  Worst case is it's only 5-8 slots higher than this year's pick but a year later, though in a supposedly better draft.  

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I noted that would be all for it if someone's willing to do it.  Then we'll have ended up with two #1s and a #3 for Revis.

 

And you never know how high that might be.  Could get really lucky and have it turn into a top 10 pick (to go along with our own naturally-earned top 5 pick, lol).  Worst case is it's only 5-8 slots higher than this year's pick but a year later, though in a supposedly better draft.  

 

Yeah I would say that after the first handful of picks in the first round there's another dropoff in talent.

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