We did well considering who was there

[unbanmadmike1]

The guys i'm seeing Milliner compared to are Carlos Rodgers and Ike Taylor! Not Patrick Peterson or Richard Sherman. Would you take Carlos Rodgers or Ike Taylor at 9 overall? It's moronic.

[Smashmouth]

Have you read the New York Jets scouting reports on Milliner, or just some mock draft site?   6-1, 200 lb corners who run sub 4.4, who played on multiple national championship teams in the SEC are a dime a dozen?  The guy is a very good prospect, and is worthy of the 9th pick for sure.

 

Have you read the reports of 5 surgeries for Milliner ? Richardson having one on his shoulder this offseason as well ?  Reports I just read on Richardson is a weak upper body and balance issues. So lets add a weak upper body and a shoulder surgery ...this guy was probably an early second round possibility. 

 

The rest of the draft should be hilarious

[Smashmouth]

With that logic, NE had no business drafting Gronk or Hernandez, let alone both.

 

Sometimes you hit, sometimes you miss.  Wilson was a miss.

 

Your point may not be valid with NE since they win on average 12 games every year ....they can take the shot at two TE's yet still be a winning team.... Thing is they got very possibly two top 5 TE's that can both play all around and you can bet one will be traded for picks at some point and my guess is it will probably be Gronk to get the most picks possible and because Gronk is a bit of a head case

[unbanmadmike1]

With that logic, NE had no business drafting Gronk or Hernandez, let alone both.

 

Sometimes you hit, sometimes you miss.  Wilson was a miss.

Except they don't have an expantion level roster and can afford taking chances like that.

[Sperm Edwards]

Your point may not be valid with NE since they win on average 12 games every year ....they can take the shot at two TE's yet still be a winning team.... Thing is they got very possibly two top 5 TE's that can both play all around and you can bet one will be traded for picks at some point and my guess is it will probably be Gronk to get the most picks possible and because Gronk is a bit of a head case

 

 

That has nothing to do with anything.  The point is the same as the one being made.  The argument is that Jets shouldn't take a CB because they missed on one a few years ago.  New England did nothing BUT miss on every TE they drafted.  And it's not like Gronk didn't come without his risks either, which is why he was even available where he went.  

 

You take the player if you think he's your guy.  If you go into a draft thinking, "We can't take a player at position ____ because we missed on one a few years ago" then don't bother drafting.

 

Milliner was a top 10 pick.  If we took a CB who most people had slipping into the late teens or early twenties, then the opinion is justified.  

[unbanmadmike1]

That has nothing to do with anything.  The point is the same as the one being made.  The argument is that Jets shouldn't take a CB because they missed on one a few years ago.  New England did nothing BUT miss on every TE they drafted.  And it's not like Gronk didn't come without his risks either, which is why he was even available where he went.  

 

You take the player if you think he's your guy.  If you go into a draft thinking, "We can't take a player at position ____ because we missed on one a few years ago" then don't bother drafting.

 

Milliner was a top 10 pick.  If we took a CB who most people had slipping into the late teens or early twenties, then the opinion is justified.  

Half the draft guys think Hayden is better. He's definitely more of a playmaker.

[bitonti]

here are some random optimistic 1 liners

 

• 2 SEC guys in rd 1. 2 years ago I don't think they had 2 SEC guys on the whole roster.
• Dee Milliner and Sheldon Richardson were both 5 star recruits out of high school (elite athletes) 
• Dee Milliner and Sheldon Richardson both had quality production at the college game's highest level. 
• Both guys had top 10 grades. 
• Both guys will likely be instant starters.
• They stuck to their board and didn't reach for need.
• Alot of offensive skills still on the board after rd 1. 
• The defensive line could be the best in football (superunit)

[Matt39]

here are some random optimistic 1 liners

 

• 2 SEC guys in rd 1. 2 years ago I don't think they had 2 SEC guys on the whole roster.
• Dee Milliner and Sheldon Richardson were both 5 star recruits out of high school (elite athletes) 
• Dee Milliner and Sheldon Richardson both had quality production at the college game's highest level. 
• Both guys had top 10 grades. 
• Both guys will likely be instant starters.
• They stuck to their board and didn't reach for need.
• Alot of offensive skills still on the board after rd 1. 
• The defensive line could be the best in football (superunit)

 

negatives-

 

Wilson and Ellis are busts

[bitonti]

negatives-

 

Wilson and Ellis are busts

 

wilson maybe is only a nickel and that might be a bust.

 

but ellis and richardson aren't competing for the same snaps. Ellis is the goaline short yardage type. (pouha is still unsigned by the way)

 

both of these picks are for 3rd down defense which was a huge issue last year. the Jets obviously have many other issues but I like that they took two guys with much more solid 1st round grades than next best QB, WR, etc

[JustInFudge]

negatives-

 

Wilson and Ellis are busts

 

Wilson is far from a bust.

 

Are 3rd round picks considered busts these days? 

[stugotz81]

I'M Well aware, but did anyone tell you we currently have a pro bowl corner on the other side ? Also while we did probably need to address the position did we have to use the 9th pick ? Its as if we are in the same position as we were with Revis (player wise) yet with a player we all know will NOT be Revis. All this while the team has virtually NOTHING at OG, Safety, weak over all at the LB position, no pass rusher, and no skill players to speak of on offense.

Who cares if we have a pro bowler on the other side lol....does that even make any sense considering teams line up more than one wide receiver on almost every play...one good wide receiver and a bad corner(wilson) is enough to shtcan an entire game.  But at least our pro bowler on the other side is locking sht down???? hahahah that is ridiculous!!  We didnt draft him to be darelle revis for starters.....We drafted him to fill the position which we didnt have a legitimate starter at.....I want revis here more than anybody but it is what it is...he's gone so now we move forward with the next best thing which aint wilson by a mile....and we do have to address the other positions as well...im not blind to that...but to let a talent like Dee go by at #9 bc he may not be our #1 need is just foolish

[stugotz81]

They are in way worse shape at FS, G, RB and QB than they were at CB even before the draft. 

Oh yea, what FS or RB or QB were you drafting at #9? I wont even discuss drafting a guard at the #9 position.

[unbanmadmike1]

Oh yea, what FS or RB or QB were you drafting at #9? I wont even discuss drafting a guard at the #9 position.

Considering that two guards went in the top 10 of the draft because they were great prospects, it's very much worth talking about. 

[Integrity28]

Wilson is far from a bust.

 

Are 3rd round picks considered busts these days? 

 

*high five*

[Matt39]

Wilson is far from a bust.

 

Are 3rd round picks considered busts these days? 

 

when you barely had any picks those years and two years later youre turning around to take another DT...id say so.

 

Wilson is terrible

[Smashmouth]

Who cares if we have a pro bowler on the other side lol....does that even make any sense considering teams line up more than one wide receiver on almost every play...one good wide receiver and a bad corner(wilson) is enough to shtcan an entire game.  But at least our pro bowler on the other side is locking sht down???? hahahah that is ridiculous!!  We didnt draft him to be darelle revis for starters.....We drafted him to fill the position which we didnt have a legitimate starter at.....I want revis here more than anybody but it is what it is...he's gone so now we move forward with the next best thing which aint wilson by a mile....and we do have to address the other positions as well...im not blind to that...but to let a talent like Dee go by at #9 bc he may not be our #1 need is just foolish

 

 

Oh yea, what FS or RB or QB were you drafting at #9? I wont even discuss drafting a guard at the #9 position.

 

great job missing the point

[unbanmadmike1]

Wilson is far from a bust.

 

Are 3rd round picks considered busts these days? 

If you're drafting over a first round pick from 3 years ago because he's not even a starting caliber player, guess what. He's a bust.

[Sperm Edwards]

Except they don't have an expantion level roster and can afford taking chances like that.

 

I don't agree with the premise.  You don't pass up on a CB because Wilson isn't nearly worthy of the first round pick it cost to get him.  We missed on one CB.  NE missed on a bunch of TEs.  

 

Our same lead scouts (like Bradway) who placed round 1 value on Wilson - then universally referred to as a "steal" if your memory's bad - are the ones who scouted Revis and placed enough value on him to trade up to get him (keep in mind only in hindsight was there Revis and then everyone else 10 notches below him; he was picked at 14, not 5).  Again, sometimes you hit (and did they ever hit with Revis) and sometimes you don't.  I would argue Revis was a bigger hit than Wilson was a miss.  We picked at #25 that year.  We also had a huge hole at - wait for it - GUARD, and Grubbs was expected to be perfect value right around our pick without moving up & surrendering a 2.

[stugotz81]

Considering that two guards went in the top 10 of the draft because they were great prospects, it's very much worth talking about. 

yea thats what i thought in regards to what qb or rb or fs you were drafting at #9.  And to be honest...i dont care if we draft a guard who is a first ballot HOF one day....bc we will find one in free agency who can get the job done just as well...unfortunately that analogy doesn't work for qb or rb or even fs.

[stugotz81]

great job missing the point

what point did i miss?

[unbanmadmike1]

yea thats what i thought in regards to what qb or rb or fs you were drafting at #9.  And to be honest...i dont care if we draft a guard who is a first ballot HOF one day....bc we will find one in free agency who can get the job done just as well...unfortunately that analogy doesn't work for qb or rb or even fs.

Carl Nicks makes 7 million a year and Warmack and Cooper will BOTH probably be better than he is. Again, who would you rather have? Hutch or Carlos Rodgers? It's not even a question mark. You take the all pro caliber, difference making player every day of the week.

[hotcoles87]

wilson maybe is only a nickel and that might be a bust.

 

but ellis and richardson aren't competing for the same snaps. Ellis is the goaline short yardage type. (pouha is still unsigned by the way)

 

both of these picks are for 3rd down defense which was a huge issue last year. the Jets obviously have many other issues but I like that they took two guys with much more solid 1st round grades than next best QB, WR, etc

 

That's interesting-- I remember you mentioning that like a month and a half ago in another thread.  You are right-- 3rd down D is extremely important, and we're in 4 man fronts with 3+ CB on the field at least half the time anyway.  I'm getting excited about these guys.  Really like Richardson.  Nobody is really talking about what an athletic freak he is in his own right.  6-2 1/2, 300 lbs or so, ran a 4.88, benched 30 reps, jumped 32 inches, 34.5" arms, 10.5" hands, and plays fast.  Really good hustle too, which can be a major issue for big DT's.  I think him and Wilk as 3-4 ends in a base, with coples getting time as a stand up rusher, or 4-3 base end will work out just fine.  Think about our versitility on the DL.  If we can pickup one more true pass rusher, like Lemonier, Okafor, Collins, Moore, Montgomery, Washington, Buchanon etc, we're going to have an absurd line in 4 man fronts, and enough versitility to play them all in a variety of packages.  I'm pumped about our line.  If Milliner can play to his potential, we're going to do very well boys.

[Smashmouth]

what point did i miss?

 

If you bothered to read the post between all your LOL's and "Ridiculous" comments you would have realized that I stated the position of CB did need to be addressed just NOT with the 9th pick in the draft. Buffalo traded out and got a 1st 2nd and 3rd and 5th round pick. Of course the Jets with their heads in the sand were not proactive in calling the Rams and possibly getting that deal. The Bills would have probably drafted Manuel at 8 anyhow so we missed the boat there. I think if the Jets call the Rams they would have been insane not to take all those picks in place of  Austin since we have so many needs. Then we could have addressed both the cornerback position and the plethora of other holes on this football team. If the Jets wanted Austin and were blindsided by the bills/rams trade then it once again proves just how unprepared the Jets are and have historically been for the NFL draft. Why ?? because everyone and their mother knew the Rams were hot for Austin and the Bills knew they could still get Manuel at 16 ( no matter how bad or Good that pick might turn out to be)  

 

As for the point you missed its about accumulating picks and filling both the needs we're talking about here.

[slats]

Carl Nicks makes 7 million a year and Warmack and Cooper will BOTH probably be better than he is. Again, who would you rather have? Hutch or Carlos Rodgers? It's not even a question mark. You take the all pro caliber, difference making player every day of the week.

 

Lol. So the consensus top CB in the draft, a guy some referred to as the top defender in the entire draft, is neither all pro caliber, nor is he a difference maker. But both guards, both expected to be taken after Milliner, are all pro difference makers?

 

Whatever keeps that rant alive.

 

I'm grateful they passed on Warmack. Disappointed they couldn't trade down once or twice, but so glad they passed on any guard in the top ten.

[unbanmadmike1]

Lol. So the consensus top CB in the draft, a guy some referred to as the top defender in the entire draft, is neither all pro caliber, nor is he a difference maker. But both guards, both expected to be taken after Milliner, are all pro difference makers?

 

Whatever keeps that rant alive.

 

I'm grateful they passed on Warmack. Disappointed they couldn't trade down once or twice, but so glad they passed on any guard in the top ten.

Scouting reports were comparing Warmack and Cooper to hall of famers and Milliner to average players. You still can't get around that. Even reports that rated Milliner well.

[slats]

Scouting reports were comparing Warmack and Cooper to hall of famers and Milliner to average players. You still can't get around that. Even reports that rated Milliner well.

 

An above average CB is more valuable than an all pro guard. OG is the lowest valued starting position on an NFL roster. They were smart to pass on Warmack. They can land a perfectly capable starter in the later rounds - and the overall difference to the team will be minimal. Such is the value of a guard.

 

(and I know you'll now tell me that guards are impact players. spoiler alert - I'm not convinced)

[Smashmouth]

Scouting reports were comparing Warmack and Cooper to hall of famers and Milliner to average players. You still can't get around that. Even reports that rated Milliner well.

 

The big issue here is we could have traded out with the rams and filled needs we all know this team has, instead in typical Jets fashion we filled 2 spots that should have been filled in the middle and back end of this Draft and thats why the Jets suck ass and it seems nothing has changed

[JFtoLong]

The big issue here is we could have traded out with the rams and filled needs we all know this team has, instead in typical Jets fashion we filled 2 spots that should have been filled in the middle and back end of this Draft and thats why the Jets suck ass and it seems nothing has changed

 

The nail has been hit squarely on the head.

[unbanmadmike1]

An above average CB is more valuable than an all pro guard. OG is the lowest valued starting position on an NFL roster. They were smart to pass on Warmack. They can land a perfectly capable starter in the later rounds - and the overall difference to the team will be minimal. Such is the value of a guard.

 

(and I know you'll now tell me that guards are impact players. spoiler alert - I'm not convinced)

Untrue. There were a ton of above average CB's who ALL signed for less than Andy Levitre who isn't even as good as Cooper or Warmack.

[stugotz81]

Carl Nicks makes 7 million a year and Warmack and Cooper will BOTH probably be better than he is. Again, who would you rather have? Hutch or Carlos Rodgers? It's not even a question mark. You take the all pro caliber, difference making player every day of the week.

How about,  I wanted Dee instead of Warmack or Cooper allllll dayyyyy.  Not interested in Nicks or Hutch or Rodgers bc there different people on different teams and has no correlation to what the success of Dee will be on the NYJ.  

[HessStation]

An above average CB is more valuable than an all pro guard. OG is the lowest valued starting position on an NFL roster. They were smart to pass on Warmack. They can land a perfectly capable starter in the later rounds - and the overall difference to the team will be minimal. Such is the value of a guard.

 

(and I know you'll now tell me that guards are impact players. spoiler alert - I'm not convinced)

Is that why they went 7, 10 and 19 last night. Pugh probably ends up a guard. Give it up slats.

[stugotz81]

If you bothered to read the post between all your LOL's and "Ridiculous" comments you would have realized that I stated the position of CB did need to be addressed just NOT with the 9th pick in the draft. Buffalo traded out and got a 1st 2nd and 3rd and 5th round pick. Of course the Jets with their heads in the sand were not proactive in calling the Rams and possibly getting that deal. The Bills would have probably drafted Manuel at 8 anyhow so we missed the boat there. I think if the Jets call the Rams they would have been insane not to take all those picks in place of  Austin since we have so many needs. Then we could have addressed both the cornerback position and the plethora of other holes on this football team. If the Jets wanted Austin and were blindsided by the bills/rams trade then it once again proves just how unprepared the Jets are and have historically been for the NFL draft. Why ?? because everyone and their mother knew the Rams were hot for Austin and the Bills knew they could still get Manuel at 16 ( no matter how bad or Good that pick might turn out to be)  

 

As for the point you missed its about accumulating picks and filling both the needs we're talking about here.

LOL and that's ridiculous.  Dee was the best available at #9 to fill one of our needs. Its that simple.... Who knows if the Jets even spoke to the Rams or if the Rams even wanted to trade with us.....WHO KNOWS! But when it comes down to making the pick at #9 we needed cb and who better to fill that role than Dee considering his potential and talent level...not a damn guard! 

[unbanmadmike1]

How about, I wanted Dee instead of Warmack or Cooper allllll dayyyyy. Not interested in Nicks or Hutch or Rodgers bc there different people on different teams and has no correlation to what the success of Dee will be on the NYJ.

When Ducasse is getting whoever the QB is killed and RB"s tackled in the backfield every other play you can be very happy with yourself that the Jets don't have an All Pro guard.

[stugotz81]

When Ducasse is getting whoever the QB is killed and RB"s tackled in the backfield every other play you can be very happy with yourself that the Jets don't have an All Pro guard.

Yes, just as thrilled you woulda been watching Wilson chase a wide receiver down the field into the endzone all game. So you owe me for saving you that grief ............aaaaaaannnd I'm sure they will find a guard in the 2nd n 3rd round who will blow Ducasse out of the water so i'm not the least bit concerned 

[unbanmadmike1]

Yes, just as thrilled you woulda been watching Wilson chase a wide receiver down the field into the endzone all game. So you owe me for saving you that grief ............aaaaaaannnd I'm sure they will find a guard in the 2nd n 3rd round who will blow Ducasse out of the water so i'm not the least bit concerned 

Wilson was terrible last year and the Jets still had one of the best  pass D's in the NFL and if you're taking a guard in the 2nd thats yet another pick you aren't using on other positions where they are terrible.