Scott Dierking Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 There I said it. And it will draw fire from the Rex lovers as they will point to "record" and point to "winning seasons", etc. I am tired of all the "Rex is the greatest head coach in Jets history", because: 1. the Jets history sucks and 2. It is just not true When Walt Michaels coached the Jets he inherited a truly horrible and miserable team from the Lou Holtz year. That team scored 169 points, and allowed 383. Both numbers were 26th in a 28 team league. They were 3-11. It was a team that transitioned from Joe Namath to Richard Todd, as Holtz tried to run the option with Todd, with huge shoulder pads on him. What people tend top forget about this time period is that teams did not traditionally make great strides or jumps year to year. This was the dynasty era, where there was no free agency, the great teams stayed great, and you had to rely on draft acumen in order to get better. Michael's first year also produced a 3-11 mark, as his predecessor. But you saw progress. The Jets played a number of close games in December, only to fall short. But you saw the seeds being planted. You could envision the progress. Walt Michaels, who was primarily a defensive guy had a fellow by the name of John Idzik (Sr.) as his offensive coordinator. And Richard Todd, who was not much of a pro style qb, made progress. he learned. And began to take control of the offensive team. The jets did not have any great running back, they used a rb by committee mode. You began to see a click between Todd and Wesley Walker and Caster and Barkum. 1978 saw a huge leap in productivity for the jets. The Idzik offense finished 3rd in points scored! In mid-year, it looked like the Jets really had something, but they faltered in an OT loss to Cleveland, and then lost to Dallas. Demerits for Michaels there. They still did not have their defense under the defensive minded Michaels I think the 1979 team underperformed. There were close losses and the pieces for Michaels defense were just coming together. 1980 was an abortion at 4-12. I can't remember all of the details for the slide, but it was a definite mis-step. 1981 and 1982 were the zenith years for Michaels and the Jets. One could almost make the argument they were the best team in the NFL during that period. Michaels did not bring them to the promised land, so there are more demerits. '81 ended in a painful painful playoff loss where they fell behind huge early, only to miss on a giant comeback late, and we all know the '82 debacle in Miami. Was Walt Michael a great or perfect head coach? No! he had mis-steps with the team. he also inherited a horrid squad. One that had a qb who was not ready, was totally mis-used and devoid of confidence from Lou Holtz. And he developed that qb with his staff. He also architected a defense that Rex Ryan would be envious of. Ignore the records, because they are skewed because of how teams are built now. Look at what was given to each coach, and evaluate what they did with those squads and how the needle rose under MIchaels, and is falling under Rex. My opinion is that Michaels> Ryan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Fire Rex hire Walt Michaels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Your point? Firing Walt Michaels was a major blunder. Even with his alleged drunken tirade considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted December 11, 2013 Author Share Posted December 11, 2013 Your point? Firing Walt Michaels was a major blunder. Even with his alleged drunken tirade considered. My point is, as many have tried to prop Ryan up, is that "he is the best coach in jets history". I don't buy it. It has no grounding today as to what the team does with rex, but is more an historical visit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 My point is, as many have tried to prop Ryan up, is that "he is the best coach in jets history". I don't buy it. It has no grounding today as to what the team does with rex, but is more an historical visit. Dick Kotite > Al Groh discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted December 11, 2013 Author Share Posted December 11, 2013 Dick Kotite > Al Groh discuss. The poster or the coach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bergen Jet Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Michaels was so good that he ended up coaching in the USFL and never sniffed the NFL again. In all seriousness, he did well with what he had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted December 11, 2013 Author Share Posted December 11, 2013 Michaels was so good that he ended up coaching in the USFL and never sniffed the NFL again. He was blackballed, if you want to believe the rumors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bergen Jet Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 He was blackballed, if you want to believe the rumors. I was an active fan by then. I actually liked Joe Walton in the beginning as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 The poster or the coach? Dick Kotite vs Limolady > than any coach the Jets ever had. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted December 11, 2013 Author Share Posted December 11, 2013 I was an active fan by then. I actually liked Joe Walton in the beginning as well... Walton was a decent enough coach, but he also was divisive and the team quit on him. The players viewed him as a team ownership extension when their were rifts between NFL and players at the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowmoe57 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Dick Kotite > Al Groh discuss. Well he did coach the team for twice as long. Other than that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Walton was a decent enough coach, but he also was divisive and the team quit on him. The players viewed him as a team ownership extension when their were rifts between NFL and players at the time Walton was another risk averse scared to pass idiot. The Jets had a pretty good team in 1986 and should have advanced to the AFC title game(Gastineau and scared playcalls). . No gimme they would've beaten the Broncos in Denver but we'll never know. Walton was blackballed because he liked his pops and had a falling out with the Jets' front office man, Jim Kensil. Does make the point if you don't have a great QB, you cna t least develope or find one.Gannon, Testaverde, Warner, and in Michaels' case Pat Ryan. Instead Wrecks throws up his hands and has them run the Wildcat. GTFOH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 My point is, as many have tried to prop Ryan up, is that "he is the best coach in jets history". I don't buy it. It has no grounding today as to what the team does with rex, but is more an historical visit. Yeah... we get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 My point is, as many have tried to prop Ryan up, is that "he is the best coach in jets history". I don't buy it. I've been trying to follow along on this great debate, and I'm pretty certain that not one person has said that Rex is the best coach in Jets' history. But your rebuttal to this imaginary stance has been outstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 My point is, as many have tried to prop Ryan up, is that "he is the best coach in jets history". I don't buy it. It has no grounding today as to what the team does with rex, but is more an historical visit. and as an example you give a defensive minded coach the team stupidly fired too early? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Michaels was a good coach. It was just as stupid of Leon to fire him, as it would be for Woody to fire Rex. Actually you made a good choice as a comparison, and a strong argument to not fire Rex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted December 11, 2013 Author Share Posted December 11, 2013 I've been trying to follow along on this great debate, and I'm pretty certain that not one person has said that Rex is the best coach in Jets' history. But your rebuttal to this imaginary stance has been outstanding. It is no "debate" just an opinion. There is nothing to get your birkenstocks in a lather about. You are really a defensive, reactionary guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted December 11, 2013 Author Share Posted December 11, 2013 Michaels was a good coach. It was just as stupid of Leon to fire him, as it would be for Woody to fire Rex. Actually you made a good choice as a comparison, and a strong argument to not fire Rex Except, that Michaels teams were excelling at the team of firing, and Rex's teams are failing. Little difference there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 if message boards existed in 1980, Walt Michaels would have been toast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted December 11, 2013 Author Share Posted December 11, 2013 if message boards existed in 1980, Walt Michaels would have been toast And Draftdaddy would be trumpeting Darrol Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Scott doesn't like Rex, there's some breaking news for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted December 11, 2013 Author Share Posted December 11, 2013 Scott doesn't like Rex, there's some breaking news for you. I thought it was an interesting historical perspective, that is all. Back to mongering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 I've been trying to follow along on this great debate, and I'm pretty certain that not one person has said that Rex is the best coach in Jets' history. But your rebuttal to this imaginary stance has been outstanding. I've seen people say "Rex has given us the best period of Jets football in their history", which I guess could be extrapolated into "Rex is the best coach in Jets history". Either statement redefines sadness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizard King Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 I, for one, appreciated the history lesson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetfan13 Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 I agree SD, and I am a big Rex supporter. Problem with Michaels was he didn't get along with the front office. He spoke his mind and even though he put a winning team on the field, the ownership at that time wouldn't put up with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Except, that Michaels teams were excelling at the team of firing, and Rex's teams are failing. Little difference there No,lots of difference there. He had an NFL QB, not a great one, but one who belonged in the league. He also had the the Sack Exchange, Freeman McNeil, Bruce Harper, Wesley Walker, Jerome Barkum, Mickey Schuler, and lo and behold Scott Dierking. Yep little difference there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Except, that Michaels teams were excelling at the team of firing, and Rex's teams are failing. Little difference there If actually winning six games with this collection of offensive "talent" is failing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted December 11, 2013 Author Share Posted December 11, 2013 No,lots of difference there. He had an NFL QB, not a great one, but one who belonged in the league. He also had the the Sack Exchange, Freeman McNeil, Bruce Harper, Wesley Walker, Jerome Barkum, Mickey Schuler, and lo and behold Scott Dierking. Yep little difference there If you asked anyone in teh league at the time, Richard Todd did not belong in the league as he was being used. Michaels picked up a shell of a qb who was abused by Holtz (literally) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizard King Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 No,lots of difference there. He had an NFL QB, not a great one, but one who belonged in the league. He also had the the Sack Exchange, Freeman McNeil, Bruce Harper, Wesley Walker, Jerome Barkum, Mickey Schuler, and lo and behold Scott Dierking. Yep little difference there So, assuming that there is no "perfect" trial period for a head coach (different situations), do you tie the life of the coach to the success of the GM? Rex's window should have probably gotten longer now on this premise since Idzik is going to need a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizard King Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 If you asked anyone in teh league at the time, Richard Todd did not belong in the league as he was being used. Michaels picked up a shell of a qb who was abused by Holtz (literally) Yes. When I was young going to games, Richard Todd was almost as bad as a curse word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 If you asked anyone in teh league at the time, Richard Todd did not belong in the league as he was being used. Michaels picked up a shell of a qb who was abused by Holtz (literally) Actually, Michaels ****ed up Todd way more than Holtz did, benching him for Matt Robinson in '78 and pretty much destroying his confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted December 11, 2013 Author Share Posted December 11, 2013 Actually, Michaels ****ed up Todd way more than Holtz did, benching him for Matt Robinson in '78 and pretty much destroying his confidence. How did Todd manage to come back and prosper under Michaels then? Ok genius, help us all out here. I laid my opinion on the line here-Why don't y ou go ahead and rank Jet HC's in order as you see them. Then we can all post dopey emoticons and little snippets to mock you. Go ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 So, assuming that there is no "perfect" trial period for a head coach (different situations), do you tie the life of the coach to the success of the GM? Rex's window should have probably gotten longer now on this premise since Idzik is going to need a few years. IDK. I guess it depends on the performance of the HC, and how his players react to him. Rex has been given two rookie QB's, not only rookie QB's, but bad rookie QB's. Coming into this year most of the pundits had the Jets as the worst team in the NFL talent wise. 2-4 wins. He's got 6 wins with 3 games to go. I'm not terribly involved in the keep Rex, fire Rex debate, but I think he has earned an extension. JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted December 11, 2013 Author Share Posted December 11, 2013 Actually, Michaels ****ed up Todd way more than Holtz did, benching him for Matt Robinson in '78 and pretty much destroying his confidence. And, if you wanted to be accurate, Todd was INJURED in 1978. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.jpg.02d5a086ca7ed80fc66faf3bb6f878c7.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.