Walt Michaels > Rex Ryan

[The Crusher]

I've been trying to follow along on this great debate, and I'm pretty certain that not one person has said that Rex is the best coach in Jets' history. But your rebuttal to this imaginary stance has been outstanding.

 

 

He could lose in shadow boxing by a split decision. 

[Matt39]

Walt Michaels is still alive fwiw. 

[Scott Dierking]

Walt Michaels is still alive fwiw. 

Pretty hard to believe, as I knew that he had debilitating back pain in the '80's 

 

I am not clear of the split between he and Idzik and how that evolved. It would be nice for the team to bring him back for a day.

[Matt39]

Pretty hard to believe, as I knew that he had debilitating back pain in the '80's 

 

I am not clear of the split between he and Idzik and how that evolved. It would be nice for the team to bring him back for a day.

 

Unfortunately my first memories of this team was my father screaming JOE MUST GO. Missed out on Michaels and AJ Duhe.

[flgreen]

If you asked anyone in teh league at the time, Richard Todd did not belong in the league as he was being used.

 

Michaels picked up a shell of a qb who was abused by Holtz (literally)

 

C'mon   in 1982 Todd had 14 TD's and 8 interceptions.   Last year Sanchez had 13 TD's and 18 interceptions.  This year Smith has 9 TD's and 20 interceptions.  (WOW)   Not even close to the same level of suckiness.

 

What do you think the Jets record would be it Smith had a comparable TD to pick ratio as Todd had?  Would you be screaming for Rex's head?  

[JiFtheOracle]

There I said it. And it will draw fire from the Rex lovers as they will point to "record" and point to "winning seasons", etc.

 

I am tired of all the "Rex is the greatest head coach in Jets history", because:

1. the Jets history sucks and

2. It is just not true

 

When Walt Michaels coached the Jets he inherited a truly horrible and miserable team from the Lou Holtz year. That team scored 169 points, and allowed 383. Both numbers were 26th in a 28 team league. They were 3-11. It was a team that transitioned from Joe Namath to Richard Todd, as Holtz tried to run the option with Todd, with huge shoulder pads on him.

 

What people tend top forget about this time period is that teams did not traditionally make great strides or jumps year to year. This was the dynasty era, where there was no free agency, the great teams stayed great, and you had to rely on draft acumen in order to get better.

 

Michael's first year also produced a 3-11 mark, as his predecessor. But you saw progress. The Jets played a number of close games in December, only to fall short. But you saw the seeds being  planted. You could envision the progress.

 

Walt Michaels, who was primarily a defensive guy had a fellow by the name of John Idzik as his offensive coordinator. And Richard Todd, who was not much of a pro style qb, made progress. he learned. And began to take control of the offensive team. The jets did not have any great running back, they used a rb by committee mode. You began to see a click between Todd and Wesley Walker and Caster and Barkum.

 

1978 saw a huge leap in productivity for the jets. The Idzik offense finished 3rd in points scored! In mid-year, it looked like the Jets really had something, but they faltered in an OT loss to Cleveland, and then lost to Dallas. Demerits for Michaels there. They still did not have their defense under the defensive minded Michaels

 

I think the 1979 team underperformed. There were close losses and the pieces for Michaels defense were just coming together.

 

1980 was an abortion at 4-12. I can't remember all of the details for the slide, but it was a definite mis-step.

 

1981 and 1982 were the zenith years for Michaels and the Jets. One could almost make the argument they were the best team in the NFL during that period. Michaels did not bring them to the promised land, so there are more demerits. '81 ended in a painful painful playoff loss where they fell behind huge early, only to miss on a giant comeback late, and we all know the '82 debacle in Miami.

 

Was Walt Michael a great or perfect head coach? No! he had mis-steps with the team. he also inherited a horrid squad. One that had a qb who was not ready, was totally mis-used and devoid of confidence from Lou Holtz. And he developed that qb with his staff. He also architected a defense that Rex Ryan would be envious of.

 

Ignore the records, because they are skewed because of how teams are built now. Look at what was given to each coach, and evaluate what they did with those squads and how the needle rose under MIchaels, and is falling under Rex.

 

My opinion is that Michaels> Ryan.

 

Neat.  Thanks for posting.

 

I wasnt around for Walt Michael's or Weeb.  So that said, Rex is the best Head Coach we've had in my lifetime.

 

I rate him over Parcells because while Parcells was a great Head Coach, he was never a long term solution for the Jets and he ultimately ****ed us over, like he does every team he coaches.

 

So while it might not be impressive considering the coaching history with the Jets, Rex is the best I've got to watch.

[Klecko73isGod]

How did Todd manage to come back and prosper under Michaels then?

 

Ok genius, help us all out here. I laid my opinion on the line here-Why don't y ou go ahead and rank Jet HC's in order as you see them. Then we can all post dopey emoticons and little snippets to mock you. Go ahead.

 

1. Weeb Ewbank

2. Everybody else. 

[Scott Dierking]

1. Weeb Ewbank

2. Everybody else. 

Lame

[Klecko73isGod]

How did Todd manage to come back and prosper under Michaels then?

 

Ok genius, help us all out here. I laid my opinion on the line here-Why don't y ou go ahead and rank Jet HC's in order as you see them. Then we can all post dopey emoticons and little snippets to mock you. Go ahead.

 

LMFAO Why are you so angry?

[Klecko73isGod]

And, if you wanted to be accurate, Todd was INJURED in 1978.

 

To be fair... I was 7. 

[Scott Dierking]

C'mon   in 1982 Todd had 14 TD's and 8 interceptions.   Last year Sanchez had 13 TD's and 18 interceptions.  This year Smith has 9 TD's and 20 interceptions.  (WOW)   Not even close to the same level of suckiness.

 

What do you think the Jets record would be it Smith had a comparable TD to pick ratio as Todd had?  Would you be screaming for Rex's head?  

1982 was not Todd's first year in the league.

 

There is something to be said about HC's developing qb's too. Using them correctly. Rex does not get absolved from qb development. he was part in parcel with the pick as it was announced.

[Klecko73isGod]

If you asked anyone in teh league at the time, Richard Todd did not belong in the league as he was being used.

 

Michaels picked up a shell of a qb who was abused by Holtz (literally)

 

Do you know what "literally" means or do you have some proof that Richard Todd was sanduskied by Lou Holtz?

[Klecko73isGod]

Lame

 

Sorry I didn't meet your impossibly high standards. I'll honestly try harder next time. 

[Scott Dierking]

LMFAO Why are you so angry?

I am not. But when you counter dialogue with sill emoticons or 1 line punch lines, you come off as, let's say a little ill informed. 

 

I gave you the chance to make your case, and now you are saying you were too young to remember.

 

Step aside in that case. You are not well enough informed. It is ok. Jif handled it properly.

[Scott Dierking]

Do you know what "literally" means or do you have some proof that Richard Todd was sanduskied by Lou Holtz?

Holtz threw him into an option set. That was abuse. Smart ass

[Klecko73isGod]

I am not. But when you counter dialogue with sill emoticons or 1 line punch lines, you come off as, let's say a little ill informed. 

 

I gave you the chance to make your case, and now you are saying you were too young to remember.

 

Step aside in that case. You are not well enough informed. It is ok. Jif handled it properly.

 

Good for JiF!!! HEY EVERYBODY!!! There IS a poster worthy of Scott Dierking's ridiculous standards of what is acceptable posting on a message board.

 

YAY JIF!!!! JIIF FOR PRESIDENT!!! WOOOOOOHOOOO!!!!

 

Seriously? My goal was to come off like I don't give a crap and make a mockery of yet another "I hate Rex" thread. 

[CTM]

I am not. But when you counter dialogue with sill emoticons or 1 line punch lines, you come off as, let's say a little ill informed. 

 

 

"a little ill informed" is an upgrade for Klacko, he should stand down in fear of losing this new prestigious designation.

[JiFtheOracle]

Good for JiF!!! HEY EVERYBODY!!! There IS a poster worthy of Scott Dierking's ridiculous standards of what is acceptable posting on a message board.

 

YAY JIF!!!! JIIF FOR PRESIDENT!!! WOOOOOOHOOOO!!!!

 

Seriously? My goal was to come off like I don't give a crap and make a mockery of yet another "I hate Rex" thread. 

 

Would you really vote for me for President?

[Klecko73isGod]

"a little ill informed" is an upgrade for Klacko, he should stand down in fear of losing this new prestigious designation.

 

Yeah, I'm totally not comfortable with that. 

[Klecko73isGod]

Would you really vote for me for President?

 

Of course I would buddy! (pats Jif on head)

[#27TheDominator]

Holtz threw him into an option set. That was abuse. Smart ass

 

 

Wasn't Todd an option QB?  

[Scott Dierking]

Wasn't Todd an option QB?  

Holtz would bring Todd in on 3rd and shorts-Guess what the jets were going to run????? While that may have worked at Bama, the NYJ were not set up as a veer offense (remember, they still had a line that was trying to protect Namath's knees), the defenses were sitting on the edge for Todd and killing him.

[slats]

It is no "debate" just an opinion. There is nothing to get your birkenstocks in a lather about. 

 

You are really a defensive, reactionary guy.

I wear Chacos, buddy.

I liked Walt Michaels, too, and thought he didn't deserve to be fired when he was. But he endured three and four win seasons, failing to finish above .500 for four straight years. In his fourth year, he went 4-12 with Lam Jones and Derrick Gaffney at WR, and I'm certain that was all Walt Michaels' fault. In real time, I really can't imagine you defending the guy as he was about to embark on his fifth year.

[T0mShane]

Neat. Thanks for posting.

I wasnt around for Walt Michael's or Weeb. So that said, Rex is the best Head Coach we've had in my lifetime.

I rate him over Parcells because while Parcells was a great Head Coach, he was never a long term solution for the Jets and he ultimately ****ed us over, like he does every team he coaches.

So while it might not be impressive considering the coaching history with the Jets, Rex is the best I've got to watch.

You're an absolute clown.

[bitonti]

and by the way the "pre salary cap" thing cuts both ways. You can't pry away stars from other teams but you also aren't losing your stars every year. Modern coaches have to deal with 15-25% roster churn every year, whether they are good or bad. 

[T0mShane]

and by the way the "pre salary cap" thing cuts both ways. You can't pry away stars from other teams but you also aren't losing your stars every year. Modern coaches have to deal with 15-25% roster churn every year, whether they are good or bad.

I've got an idea to fix this: make it so QB salaries don't count against the cap. It's stupid to have a $20 million dollar quarterback but, as a result, have him protected by bargain basement OLmen.

[Klecko73isGod]

I've got an idea to fix this: make it so QB salaries don't count against the cap. It's stupid to have a $20 million dollar quarterback but, as a result, have him protected by bargain basement OLmen.

 

That's a terrible idea.

[Maxman]

I, for one, appreciated the history lesson.

 

It was more a revisionist history lesson.  Because we all know Lou Holtz was run out of town unfairly.  Is it Lou's fault that the Jets players took so long to learn the fight song?  I think not.

[Maxman]

I've got an idea to fix this: make it so QB salaries don't count against the cap. It's stupid to have a $20 million dollar quarterback but, as a result, have him protected by bargain basement OLmen.

 

Owners would never go for that.  QBs would be making 40 million if that happened.

[Jetsfan80]

1.  Weeb Ewbank

2.  Bill Parcells

 

Where's the debate?

[flgreen]

It was more a revisionist history lesson.  Because we all know Lou Holtz was run out of town unfairly.  Is it Lou's fault that the Jets players took so long to learn the fight song?  I think not.

The Wednesday Video: Alex Karras Sings NY Jets Fight Song

By Jeff Freier on Oct 5 2011, 11:01a +

 

In 1976, the New York Jets hired Lou Holtz as their coach. He came from a college background, and, of course, returned to college for a long successful career. But his one year running Gang Green did not go so well, as the team went 3-11. Holtz didn't even make it through the full schedule as he resigned before the final game. One of Holtz's failed experiments was an attempt to bring a college-like atmosphere and enthusiasm to the pros. He even went so far as to write a fight song for the team, which with all the hand-wringing and finger-pointing surrounding this year's edition, maybe that's just what the 2011 Jets need. With the Jets taking on the New England Patriots this weekend, here's a look back at a Jet-Pats game from October 18, 1976. In the opening segment of theMonday Night Football broadcast, Alex Karras warbles a version of the tune (around the 4:00 mark), and it's no mystery why this song never caught on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54sYDyCJHj0#t=14

 

 

[JiFtheOracle]

You're an absolute clown.

 

 

I've got an idea to fix this: make it so QB salaries don't count against the cap. It's stupid to have a $20 million dollar quarterback but, as a result, have him protected by bargain basement OLmen.

 

And I'm the clown...

 

what a dbag

[bitonti]

1.  Weeb Ewbank

2.  Bill Parcells

 

Where's the debate?

 

the debate is who to put at #3. It's obviously Rex. SD created this thread to make a case for Walt Michaels.

[CTM]

the debate is who to put at #3. It's obviously Rex. SD created this thread to make a case for Walt Michaels.

 

that's like arguing which of the porkers jif has banged is third hottest, it's the blond ftr

 

 

 

[Sperm Edwards]

I like how, despite the first line of the post, we've seen this thread "draw fire" from nobody.

 

Michaels was an imperfect coach.  Not the best we've ever had and not the worst we've ever had.  The highest his team reached was the AFCCG with a crappy QB.

Ryan was and is an imperfect coach.   Not the best we've ever had and not the worst we've ever had.  The highest his team reached was the AFCCG with a crappy QB.

 

This is a controversial thread to no one.  Particularly since Walt wasn't passed over for the job by Ryan.