why not play Kerley as the 2

[Jetknowledge]

Could he be a better #2 ? Maybe, but Football 101 in West Coast Offense is slot WRs are GOLD. Thats the route that is virtually always there if a QB leads the WR with the 3 and 5 step drop. Kerley has more value to Jets w/West Coast Off as a slot WR than he would as a #2.

I hear your thoughts, but in this system its the slot thats gold.

You realize Jerry Rice got most of his YAC yards as motion to the slot, catching a 3-5 yd slant route over the middle and then taking off, BUT the QB had to hit the WR in STRIDE, thats KEY (something Sanchez could never do and was his downfall as a WCO QB) It forces coverage to middle and hopefully allows single coverage on the 'out' WRs. Game has changed. The slot WR is on field all the time and the so is the Nickel CB. So what was once a 2 WR and 2 CB league , isnt anymore.

But WTF do I know..Go JETS, bleed green is all I care about

Your right, but if we only have 2 receivers on the field i feel better knowing it Decker and Kerley.

[SouthernJet]

Your right, but if we only have 2 receivers on the field i feel better knowing it Decker and Kerley.

??

 

They will be, w/Kerley in slot. the other out WR would be considered the 3rd best WR on field. With MM's Offesne the slot is a starter

[#27TheDominator]

Doesn't really matter much.  If Kerley stays healthy, wherever he lines up he'll be a favorite target for Geno.  Geno's performance last year was highly correlated with whether or not Kerley was on the field.  He should be 2nd on the team in targets when all is said and done.

 

More important will be Geno himself taking a step forward and, perhaps, getting SOMETHING out of Hill, the only guy on the roster capable of taking the top off a defense.  Geno throws a nice deep ball so it would be nice for someone to get open on deep routes and either make a play or draw a flag.  You know, like the rest of the offenses in the league can do from time to time.

 

I agree with this post in general, but why do you say that Hill is the only guy on the roster capable of taking the top off a defense?  Ford should certainly be able to, Gates also to some extent.  Enunwa isn't far off and they have been talking about splitting Johnson out and he should also have that capability.  Having multiple burners is nice.  Even when they suck, they still force the D to adjust.  

 

*Saalim Hakim does not appear to be an NFL WR but he also should be capable of taking the top off a D. 

[Kleckineau]

Could he be a better #2 ? Maybe, but Football 101 in West Coast Offense is slot WRs are GOLD. Thats the route that is virtually always there if  a QB leads the WR with the 3 and 5 step drop. Kerley has more value to Jets w/West Coast Off as a slot WR than he would as a #2. 

I hear your thoughts, but in this system its the slot thats gold.

You realize Jerry Rice got most of his YAC yards as motion to the slot, catching a 3-5 yd slant route over the middle and then taking off, BUT the QB had to hit the WR in STRIDE, thats KEY (something Sanchez could never do and was his downfall as a WCO QB)  It forces coverage to middle and hopefully allows single coverage on the 'out' WRs. Game has changed. The slot WR is on field all the time and the so is the Nickel CB. So what was once a 2 WR and 2 CB league , isnt anymore.

 

But WTF do I know..Go JETS, bleed green is all I care about

,Thank you for the accurate analysis. Since you bring up Rice, to the guys here that say Kerley is too slow to play wide out (silly opinion), FWIW, Rice's 40 time was something like 4.7 and that was when he was young. I'd also add he probably would have had a hard time breaking 5 seconds during the 2nd half of his career.  (no I am not saying Kerley is Rice so need for anyone go there ☺)

Point is, playing the position is so much more than straight ahead speed.

I know you arent saying it but those saying Kerley is slow to play wide out is just silly  

[#27TheDominator]

JERRY RICE RAN A ******* 4.59!!!! 

 

CAN I STOP HEARING THIS FARCICAL MYTH REPEATED AD NAUSEUM?

 

He ran a 4.59 at the combine.  Those are hand-timed and he was from a small school and did not have the level of sprint training these guys have now.  There are plenty of people that claim he was a sub 4.5 guy which was plenty fast back then, but let's ignore that.  Pre-draft Bill Walsh described him as John Jefferson with speed.  A 5.0?  Give me a ******* break.  I could never sniff 4.59 and I can still break that now and I am 47. 

[Jetsfan80]

JERRY RICE RAN A ******* 4.59!!!! 

 

CAN I STOP HEARING THIS FARCICAL MYTH REPEATED AD NAUSEUM?

 

He ran a 4.59 at the combine.  Those are hand-timed and he was from a small school and did not have the level of sprint training these guys have now.  There are plenty of people that claim he was a sub 4.5 guy which was plenty fast back then, but let's ignore that.  Pre-draft Bill Walsh described him as John Jefferson with speed.  A 5.0?  Give me a ******* break.  I could never sniff 4.59 and I can still break that now and I am 47. 

 

And he was perfect for the WCO because he was a superb route runner with the best hands ever.  Doesn't mean he could play like Megatron.  Two very different receivers who are both great at what they do/did but he was no straight-line speed burner. 

[Jetsfan80]

I agree with this post in general, but why do you say that Hill is the only guy on the roster capable of taking the top off a defense?  Ford should certainly be able to, Gates also to some extent.  Enunwa isn't far off and they have been talking about splitting Johnson out and he should also have that capability.  Having multiple burners is nice.  Even when they suck, they still force the D to adjust.  

 

*Saalim Hakim does not appear to be an NFL WR but he also should be capable of taking the top off a D. 

 

No one on the roster has the size/speed combo Hill has.  If he ever figures it out he has the highest ceiling by far.  But a lot of the evidence points to him not figuring it out.  Falling in love with measurables has certainly gotten teams into trouble in the past.

[#27TheDominator]

No one on the roster has the size/speed combo Hill has.  If he ever figures it out he has the highest ceiling by far.  But a lot of the evidence points to him not figuring it out.  Falling in love with measurables has certainly gotten teams into trouble in the past.

 

 

Yes.  It is much more palatable to take a flyer on UDFAs like Nick Taylor, Saalim Hakim, and Jeremy Reeves because of their sick speed than trading up in the second.

[Jetsfan80]

Yes.  It is much more palatable to take a flyer on UDFAs like Nick Taylor, Saalim Hakim, and Jeremy Reeves because of their sick speed than trading up in the second.

 

Yet some people here preferred Tannenbaum to Idzik......

[Kleckineau]

JERRY RICE RAN A ******* 4.59!!!! 

 

CAN I STOP HEARING THIS FARCICAL MYTH REPEATED AD NAUSEUM?

 

He ran a 4.59 at the combine.  Those are hand-timed and he was from a small school and did not have the level of sprint training these guys have now.  There are plenty of people that claim he was a sub 4.5 guy which was plenty fast back then, but let's ignore that.  Pre-draft Bill Walsh described him as John Jefferson with speed.  A 5.0?  Give me a ******* break.  I could never sniff 4.59 and I can still break that now and I am 47. 

So you are on record saying that you are presently, at age 47, a fraction of a second slower than Jerry Rice, the greatest receiver of all time, was in his prime? Really?☺☺ Darrell Green runs a sub 5.0 at age 50 so you are as fast as him.

The record shows Rice ran a 4.68 at the combine and was slowed substantially by major reconstructive knee surgery later in his career.

Still the best football player ever.

Also as a Jets fan you should know Blair Thomas ran a 4.4 and the Jets took him with the second pick in 1990, and Emmitt Smith ran a 4.7

[#27TheDominator]

So you are on record saying that you are presently, at age 47, a fraction of a second slower than Jerry Rice, the greatest receiver of all time, was in his prime? Really?☺☺

The record shows he ran a 4.68 and was slowed by major reconstructive knee surgery later in his career. Still the best football player ever.

 

WHAT ******* RECORD SHOWS 4.68??!??!  THAT IS A ******* FALLACY. 

 

 

 

Rice, for the record, ran the dash in 4.59 seconds, according to the late Bill Walsh. (Rice bristled at the thought of recording something above 4.6 seconds

http://www.49ers.com/news/article-2/Baalke-Jerry-Rice-Puts-40-yard-Dash-in-Perspective/2263a098-32f5-4926-8768-94ca0606c4e5

\

 

 

 

“We timed Jerry in the 40 nine times,” said former Dallas Cowboys general manager Gil Brandt, “and he never got under 4.55.”

 

I am not going to do any more research on the topic.  Go search it.  I had a post about it in the last year or so that had ever source under the sun.  I don't think anybody ever actually timed Rice over 4.6 and some said he ran in the 4.4s, but 4.71!!  4.71 is a wikipedia number made up by some idot who added .1 to 4.6 instead of subtracting it and cited ever since.  Boldin ran the 4.71, but he is big.  Oh and Fitzgerald did not run a 4.63 at the combine.  He didn't even workout.  He ran a 4.47 at his pro day.  

[SouthernJet]

I just had to peek in. Any thread title that has the number 2 in it's title gets my juicing flowing, so to speak 

 

Carry on

 

[Jetknowledge]

??

They will be, w/Kerley in slot. the other out WR would be considered the 3rd best WR on field. With MM's Offesne the slot is a starter

True, but an example.

The pistol has 5 line men, 1 qb, 2 backs with a 3 rd or a tight end, and 2 receivers out wide. And i want those 2 receivers to be Decker & Kerley

[Jetknowledge]

I personally think hill is better suited for the slot, he's big, athletic, and fast.

A match up nightmare for nickel corners and, if the safety has to respect him, the tight ends, and Decker Kerley will have 1 on 1s against the number 2 corner which he can capitalize off of.

[Kleckineau]

JERRY RICE RAN A ******* 4.59!!!! 

 

CAN I STOP HEARING THIS FARCICAL MYTH REPEATED AD NAUSEUM?

 

He ran a 4.59 at the combine.  Those are hand-timed and he was from a small school and did not have the level of sprint training these guys have now.  There are plenty of people that claim he was a sub 4.5 guy which was plenty fast back then, but let's ignore that.  Pre-draft Bill Walsh described him as John Jefferson with speed.  A 5.0?  Give me a ******* break.  I could never sniff 4.59 and I can still break that now and I am 47. 

Who is timing you when you run a 4.7?

 

 

[Kleckineau]

I personally think hill is better suited for the slot, he's big, athletic, and fast.

A match up nightmare for nickel corners and, if the safety has to respect him, the tight ends, and Decker Kerley will have 1 on 1s against the number 2 corner which he can capitalize off of.

Slot receivers need to catch with their hands so they dont break stride. Hill never learned that part.

[kelticwizard]

As one of the people in the linked 49er article said, nobody ever saw anyone run down Jerry Rice once he had the ball.  While it's true that field speed is sometimes different from track speed, there usually is some correlation between the two. If Jerry Rice ran a 4.7 40 yard dash, people would be running him down at least sometimes.

 

Incidentally, Rice was known especially for the yards after catch-catching the ball on a short or medium route and taking it upfield.  But if Rice was not that fast to begin with, he wouldn't be able to catch those medium routes so often because he would be covered tighter-the CB wouldn't have to worry about Rice getting behind him so much.

[#27TheDominator]

Who is timing you when you run a 4.7?

 

When I ran a 4.7?  The coaches.  Can't run one now, but I was sub-5.0 in Italy and that was the 2010-2011 season. 

[#27TheDominator]

As one of the people in the linked 49er article said, nobody ever saw anyone run down Jerry Rice once he had the ball.  While it's true that field speed is sometimes different from track speed, there usually is some correlation between the two. If Jerry Rice ran a 4.7 40 yard dash, people would be running him down at least sometimes.

 

Incidentally, Rice was known especially for the yards after catch-catching the ball on a short or medium route and taking it upfield.  But if Rice was not that fast to begin with, he wouldn't be able to catch those medium routes so often because he would be covered tighter-the CB wouldn't have to worry about Rice getting behind him so much.

 

There was another metric that the 49ers supposedly loved, the so-called "flying 20" or last 20 yards.  Rice supposedly was super fast in the flying 20.  Apparently it is not so great at predicting NFL success.  Remember Jets studs Ben Obamanu and Eron Riley?  Ugh.

 

http://www.nfldataconsultants.com/2012/12/29/the-flying-20-on-trial/

[kelticwizard]

Eron Riley has been playing in Canada the last couple of years, along with David Clowney.  So his pro career is still alive somewhat.  Never know-players do come back from Canada sometimes and make good.  Not holding my breath, but......

[SouthernJet]

True, but an example.

The pistol has 5 line men, 1 qb, 2 backs with a 3 rd or a tight end, and 2 receivers out wide. And i want those 2 receivers to be Decker & Kerley

well have Idzik fire MM and get a new OC with a new offense........... come on man

[Jetknowledge]

Slot receivers need to catch with their hands so they dont break stride. Hill never learned that part.

What the consequences if they have that glue stuff on there gloves?

[AFJF]

Eron Riley has been playing in Canada the last couple of years, along with David Clowney.  So his pro career is still alive somewhat.  Never know-players do come back from Canada sometimes and make good.  Not holding my breath, but......

 

Brandon Browner played in Canada for a few years after going undrafted, getting moved to S by the Broncos and then cut.

[#27TheDominator]

Brandon Browner played in Canada for a few years after going undrafted, getting moved to S by the Broncos and then cut.

 

 

AND WE WILL NEVER WIN BECAUSE WE DIDN'T SIGN HIM!  

[AFJF]

AND WE WILL NEVER WIN BECAUSE WE DIDN'T SIGN HIM! 

 

LOL

[#27TheDominator]

Hill can and does catch with his hands.  He is just not a comfortable guy and has a tendency to jump and body catch.  Sometimes that is just confidence and sometimes it is being awkward.  This board posts as if Stephen Hill has horrible hands and drops the ball every time he is touched.  He doesn't.  He is tough and hardworking, and can make the tough catch.  Unfortunately, he is maddeningly inconsistent.  Cris Carter's rookie year he was the same age Hill was last year.  Carter had 5 catches.  Through his first 2 seasons Cris Carter had 44 catches, HIll has 45.  Carter did have considerably more yardage and TDs, but it is not like he never struggled.  I am worried and don't count on Hill because of what bothers Villain.  He just does not look the part.  He does not move right.  OTOH, this board loved (loves?) Braylon Edwards who had many of the same flaws. 

[AFJF]

Hill can and does catch with his hands.  He is just not a comfortable guy and has a tendency to jump and body catch.  Sometimes that is just confidence and sometimes it is being awkward.  This board posts as if Stephen Hill has horrible hands and drops the ball every time he is touched.  He doesn't.  He is tough and hardworking, and can make the tough catch.  Unfortunately, he is maddeningly inconsistent.  Cris Carter's rookie year he was the same age Hill was last year.  Carter had 5 catches.  Through his first 2 seasons Cris Carter had 44 catches, HIll has 45.  Carter did have considerably more yardage and TDs, but it is not like he never struggled.  I am worried and don't count on Hill because of what bothers Villain.  He just does not look the part.  He does not move right.  OTOH, this board loved (loves?) Braylon Edwards who had many of the same flaws. 

 

Yep...Rod Smith had John Elway at QB and caught 22 passes in his first two seasons.  A lot of people on this board would have cut him following those two seasons.

[Kleckineau]

What the consequences if they have that glue stuff on there gloves?

Hill could take a bath in that sticky sh!t and it wouldn't make a difference in his performance.

[PatsFanTX]

Seriously?

He's clearly the most reliable option outside of Decker.

Height is an excuse since guys such as steve smith, d Jackson, & Wes welker consistently produce.

He can compete and make big plays in clutch situations. For example the Oakland game last year.

He's only getting better and produces from any where on the field.

Why not give him a shot on the outside since Marty and sanjay claim they have so much faith in him?

You have an above average slot receiver.

Why the hell would you want to put him on the outside?

[slats]

Hill can and does catch with his hands.  He is just not a comfortable guy and has a tendency to jump and body catch.  Sometimes that is just confidence and sometimes it is being awkward.  This board posts as if Stephen Hill has horrible hands and drops the ball every time he is touched.  He doesn't.  He is tough and hardworking, and can make the tough catch.  Unfortunately, he is maddeningly inconsistent.  Cris Carter's rookie year he was the same age Hill was last year.  Carter had 5 catches.  Through his first 2 seasons Cris Carter had 44 catches, HIll has 45.  Carter did have considerably more yardage and TDs, but it is not like he never struggled.  I am worried and don't count on Hill because of what bothers Villain.  He just does not look the part.  He does not move right.  OTOH, this board loved (loves?) Braylon Edwards who had many of the same flaws.

I've been supportive of Hill all these years, but I have to say I'm disappointed that he hasn't flown out of the gates this preseason. I really wanted to see a jump in his performance, and we haven't. I was watching the Giant game at a bar on the beach while an exciting bingo event was taking place, so I really wasn't focused, and yet I swear I saw Hill drop two passes. It's frustrating. Coming into the season, I thought he was a lock to make the roster - and front runner to start. Now I don't even know about the roster part. Might be wiser to keep a young guy who does something on specials.

[Larz]

I've been supportive of Hill all these years, but I have to say I'm disappointed that he hasn't flown out of the gates this preseason. I really wanted to see a jump in his performance, and we haven't. I was watching the Giant game at a bar on the beach while an exciting bingo event was taking place, so I really wasn't focused, and yet I swear I saw Hill drop two passes. It's frustrating. Coming into the season, I thought he was a lock to make the roster - and front runner to start. Now I don't even know about the roster part. Might be wiser to keep a young guy who does something on specials.

 

one was well defended.  He did his usual "bambi can't get his body in position to fight for the ball" thing, but I would score that one a PD and not a drop.

[#27TheDominator]

I've been supportive of Hill all these years, but I have to say I'm disappointed that he hasn't flown out of the gates this preseason. I really wanted to see a jump in his performance, and we haven't. I was watching the Giant game at a bar on the beach while an exciting bingo event was taking place, so I really wasn't focused, and yet I swear I saw Hill drop two passes. It's frustrating. Coming into the season, I thought he was a lock to make the roster - and front runner to start. Now I don't even know about the roster part. Might be wiser to keep a young guy who does something on specials.

 

one was well defended.  He did his usual "bambi can't get his body in position to fight for the ball" thing, but I would score that one a PD and not a drop.

 

I don't know that either was technically a drop.  OTOH, they were balls he had a chance at and did not get.  I agree that he is frustrating and not successful.  

[Patriot Killa]

Kelly won't be playing #2. He won't be able to get separation properly. The reason smaller #2's like Jackson get open and are elite is because they can get separation with their elite speed. Kerley on the field is pretty fast but he can't do the things Jackson can do. Why do you think Welker isn't a solid 2? He isn't fast enough.

[Matt39]

The slant Hill ran that was broken up by DRC was a piss poor effort. He has no idea how to shield his body from defenders or extend for the football. He's a lost cause.

[Drums]

The slant Hill ran that was broken up by DRC was a piss poor effort. He has no idea how to shield his body from defenders or extend for the football. He's a lost cause.

And the guy jumps every time he tries to catch it.  I haven't seen him catch one pass in stride.  He's either stopped or in mid air.  And It's not because of the throws.