ZachEY Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 What is the fact that I'm not seeing? That the way you've constructed your argument and used arithmetic is illogical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Um...just now when you said it was "silly math" It's statistical fact that refutes your opinion of Rex, who by the way, is gone now. I've moved on, I wish you and the others could do the same. Your math may be right, but the analysis you provide it in being something of importance is silly. Woody Johnson has tried to play the "beat only the Patriots' game, and it failed miserably in Mangini. You don't build a team by what they do against one coach or qb only. That is stupid. If we were to do that, as I said, hire Tom Coughlin. He knows how to beat BB better than RR ever dreamed of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Your math may be right, but the analysis you provide it in being something of importance is silly. Woody Johnson has tried to play the "beat only the Patriots' game, and it failed miserably in Mangini. You don't build a team by what they do against one coach or qb only. That is stupid. If we were to do that, as I said, hire Tom Coughlin. He knows how to beat BB better than RR ever dreamed of. With Defense.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Hey guys, Eric Mangini was 3-4 against Bill Bellichick and Tom Brady. The answer is right under our noses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embrace the Suck Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Not even his record, I just took another look at it and I was dead wrong....he was even like four games over .500 one season. He's our man! That would be 12-4 in the NFL and I'd be fine with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Your math may be right, but the analysis you provide it in being something of importance is silly. Woody Johnson has tried to play the "beat only the Patriots' game, and it failed miserably in Mangini. You don't build a team by what they do against one coach or qb only. That is stupid. If we were to do that, as I said, hire Tom Coughlin. He knows how to beat BB better than RR ever dreamed of. I think it's a good idea to be able to beat the best team in your own division. If you can do that, you should be able to beat other teams en route to the playoffs. That's just me though. I guess it'd be cool if we beat a bunch of mediocre teams to get in the playoffs then get steamrolled by Brady and co. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 That would be 12-4 in the NFL and I'd be fine with that. Slow down now...that was in the minors...but I'm still pumped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Your math may be right, but the analysis you provide it in being something of importance is silly. Woody Johnson has tried to play the "beat only the Patriots' game, and it failed miserably in Mangini. You don't build a team by what they do against one coach or qb only. That is stupid. If we were to do that, as I said, hire Tom Coughlin. He knows how to beat BB better than RR ever dreamed of. That the Jets played the patriots significantly more than any other team in the league during that tenure is the biggest problem. There's also no consideration for other teams in the argument. Coughlin, as you say, probably has a better percentage. I'd imagine Harbaugh does too. But the overall math is destroyed by teams that played the Pats once, maybe twice, and lost that small sample size. Further, I'd bet there are teams that have played them once or twice and won at a better "rate" than the Jets, and there's no effort to find those coaches or put forth that argument either. Only once you've looked at each team/coach individually vs. the Pats, and controlled for number of times played, home field advantage, etc. could you make that kind of argument, at which point, we'd reach your above point of "who cares?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Hey guys, Eric Mangini was 3-4 against Bill Bellichick and Tom Brady. The answer is right under our noses. This. This is exactly why your #math makes no sense, AFJF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I think it's a good idea to be able to beat the best team in your own division. If you can do that, you should be able to beat other teams en route to the playoffs. That's just me though. I guess it'd be cool if we beat a bunch of mediocre teams to get in the playoffs then get steamrolled by Brady and co. Look at all the divisions that Rex won, with that stellar BB record Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Mart Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 It's all in this thread Scott....stop focusing only on what I say and listen to what the Marrone supporters are saying. This is what I said. Jesus. Talk about cherry picking: If you're basing a decision just on a record Parcells & Walsh would have been fired after 2 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embrace the Suck Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Slow down now...that was in the minors...but I'm still pumped. Well as long as you're pumped... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Hey guys, Eric Mangini was 3-4 against Bill Bellichick and Tom Brady. The answer is right under our noses. I know you loved and miss Mangini, but the guy couldn't do as much as Rex did and he had a HOF QB. Rex beat the Pats in route to the playoffs and then beat the Pats in the playoffs in their yard. Sorry...Rex was better than him too. I know it doesn't make sense, but it's true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I know you loved and miss Mangini, but the guy couldn't do as much as Rex did and he had a HOF QB. Rex beat the Pats in route to the playoffs and then beat the Pats in the playoffs in their yard. Sorry...Rex was better than him too. I know it doesn't make sense, but it's true. I was not overly obsessed with EM. He had his chance and failed. YET, he has RR in the all important "recored vs BB and TB". Yup, Rex's hardware assortment is difficult to argue against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I know you loved and miss Mangini, but the guy couldn't do as much as Rex did and he had a HOF QB. Rex beat the Pats in route to the playoffs and then beat the Pats in the playoffs in their yard. Sorry...Rex was better than him too. I know it doesn't make sense, but it's true. You're like one of those Japanese soldiers on a tiny island in the Pacific who still think WWII is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 That the Jets played the patriots significantly more than any other team in the league during that tenure is the biggest problem. There's also no consideration for other teams in the argument. Coughlin, as you say, probably has a better percentage. I'd imagine Harbaugh does too. But the overall math is destroyed by teams that played the Pats once, maybe twice, and lost that small sample size. Further, I'd bet there are teams that have played them once or twice and won at a better "rate" than the Jets, and there's no effort to find those coaches or put forth that argument either. Only once you've looked at each team/coach individually vs. the Pats, and controlled for number of times played, home field advantage, etc. could you make that kind of argument, at which point, we'd reach your above point of "who cares?" Of course the teams that face him once or twice will have guys w/ better percentages. That's why it does make sense to look at what percentage of their games they win as a whole. In every game they played in the six years Rex was here, they won 77% of them. That's a lot. Rex was better against them than the rest of the league combined. I'm sure Marrone will be a huge upgrade though. His 0-3 record vs. Brady is a fluke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberjet Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Doesn't matter who you take over or what their former status was, to be a great coach, you have to have a great record. No other way it can be. #logic Can't agree with this. BB was 36-44 with 4/5 losing seasons with Cleveland. He was a loser before the Pats success. Parcells was 3-8 with Air Force and 12-19 with Giants in his 1st 2 years. Almost quit, got fired after 2 years. Would you have hired Parcells if the Giants released him after 2 years?Would you have hired BB after the Cleveland debacle?. Would you have hired Tom Coughlin after 3 losing seasons with the Jaguars? Agree that the sample size for Marrone is small but I see no evidence he is a loser but do see potential as a winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I was not overly obsessed with EM. He had his chance and failed. YET, he has RR in the all important "recored vs BB and TB". Yup, Rex's hardware assortment is difficult to argue against. You wished to compare Rex to EM. I showed Rex was better, so you then want to change the discussion...shocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Can't agree with this. BB was 36-44 with 4/5 losing seasons with Cleveland. He was a loser before the Pats success.Parcells was 3-8 with Air Force and 12-19 with Giants in his 1st 2 years. Almost quit got fired after 2 years.Would you have hired Parcells if the Giants released after 2 years. Would you have hired BB after Cleveland. Would you have hired Tom Coughlin after 3 losing seasons with the Jaguars. Agree that the sample size for Marrone is small but I see know evidence he is a loser but do see potential as a winner. It was sarcasm-Poorly laid out, I understand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor99 Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 That would be 12-4 in the NFL and I'd be fine with that. That's 10-6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 You wished to compare Rex to EM. I showed Rex was better, so you then want to change the discussion...shocking. Rex is gone, He can't make you look silly anymore. Unless you keep this up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Of course the teams that face him once or twice will have guys w/ better percentages. That's why it does make sense to look at what percentage of their games they win as a whole. In every game they played in the six years Rex was here, they won 77% of them. That's a lot. Rex was better against them than the rest of the league combined. I'm sure Marrone will be a huge upgrade though. His 0-3 record vs. Brady is a fluke. What you're saying you shouldn't be doing with other teams is exactly what you are doing with Rex. And, those percentages go both ways. If you play a better team 1 time and lose, you've got 0%. If you play them ten times, and win once, you're at 10%. You're making the argument that 1/10 is meaningfully better (if it's even better at all) than 0/1. You might not want to be making that argument, but you are based on what you're saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberjet Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 It was sarcasm-Poorly laid out, I understand Sorry - i thought your comments were inconsistent with what you were saying. All that work for naught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embrace the Suck Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 That's 10-6. 8-8 .500 chief 4 games OVER .500 would be.... 12-4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Hey guys, Eric Mangini was 3-4 against Bill Bellichick and Tom Brady. The answer is right under our noses. Scotty that's not true Mangini was 1-3 against BB and Brady and 2-3 if you include the Browns..Brady was hurt game 1 in 2008.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Scotty that's not true Mangini was 1-3 against BB and Brady and 2-3 if you include the Browns..Brady was hurt game 1 in 2008.. Regardless, according to the "math" you'd still have to say that Mangini > Rex. 33% > 30% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Regardless, according to the "math" you'd still have to say that Mangini > Rex. 33% > 30% 1-3 = 25% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jets1958 Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Wow. These pseudo- stats make my head spin. I do know that what happened 5-10 years ago in the NFL is not necessary a good prediction of what will happen today. Teams change, rosters change, coaches change, football changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Regardless, according to the "math" you'd still have to say that Mangini > Rex. 33% > 30% So the question is was Mangini better with Chad and Favre as his QB's?? LOL Any playoff wins as a HC?? Didn't think so.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 1-3 = 25% Oh, read it wrong, as 1 of 3. See, just admitted I was wrong. Can you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 So the question is was Mangini better with Chad and Favre as his QB's?? LOL Any playoff wins as a HC?? Didn't think so.. I'd take Mangini w/ a healthy Favre. The Favre that he had at the end of the season, with the torn bicep in his throwing arm, was the one that kept them out of the playoffs. But that's because of the healthy Favre part, and not the Mangini part. Who is better between Mangini and Rex isn't important anyway. It's actually quite irrelevant. The only reason it came up was because SD, perhaps mistakenly (but again it doesn't matter), suggested that by the metrics proposed, Mangini was better than Rex. A concept few would likely accept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Scotty that's not true Mangini was 1-3 against BB and Brady and 2-3 if you include the Browns..Brady was hurt game 1 in 2008.. Did not realize the one game. 2-3 is still better than 4-9. WE SHOULD HIRE MANGINI! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I'd take Mangini w/ a healthy Favre. The Favre that he had at the end of the season, with the torn bicep in his throwing arm, was the one that kept them out of the playoffs. But that's because of the healthy Favre part, and not the Mangini part. Who is better between Mangini and Rex isn't important anyway. It's actually quite irrelevant. The only reason it came up was because SD, perhaps mistakenly (but again it doesn't matter), suggested that by the metrics proposed, Mangini was better than Rex. A concept few would likely accept. I don't accept the metrics either-except in the silly computations of AFJF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Oh, read it wrong, as 1 of 3. See, just admitted I was wrong. Can you? I do it all the time. Constantly acknowledge the fact that there are experts who know more than I do about this stuff. As a Jet fan, I'd like to see them win rather than win a MB debate. I'm surprised to see so many people excited at the prospect of more mediocrity, but not surprised to see people continually bring the discussion back to Rex. He's gone, but people can't let go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Did not realize the one game. 2-3 is still better than 4-9. WE SHOULD HIRE MANGINI! What'd Mangini do w/ a HOF QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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