Patriot Killa Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Anyone watching him? He's pro ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRL Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Meh. I thought CAL was running a pro style offense but they aren't. They run a spread like everyone else in college is so Goff's learning curve is going to be steep going to the pros. I would think he would have to go through the same process Petty is this year. Yes Goff has skills but is he a product of the system or can he really play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Meh. I thought CAL was running a pro style offense but they aren't. They run a spread like everyone else in college is so Goff's learning curve is going to be steep going to the pros. I would think he would have to go through the same process Petty is this year. Yes Goff has skills but is he a product of the system or can he really play I dont understand this. If so many college QB's are playing Spread offense why dont OC's implement the offense? Why draft a guy and ruin what he's good at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet9 Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I dont understand this. If so many college QB's are playing Spread offense why dont OC's implement the offense? Why draft a guy and ruin what he's good at? Other team's defenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Other team's defenses. I dont understand. Does the spread offense not work in the NFL because of NFL schemes? I would figure that these Spread QB's would have some sort of success on the next level if they were abusing these same defensive players back in college. And if it is the NFL scheme then why arent college DC's implementing these type of defenses to stop these spread QB's from putting up 60 points on them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet9 Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I dont understand. Does the spread offense not work in the NFL because of NFL schemes? I would figure that these Spread QB's would have some sort of success on the next level if they were abusing these same defensive players back in college. And if it is the NFL scheme then why arent college DC's implementing these type of defenses to stop these spread QB's from putting up 60 points on them? NFL defenses are a lot faser than NCAA D's. A lot of spreads are one read. The spread is working it's way into the NFL, but it's not the same as college. One read running QBs get murdered in the NFL....eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 he has great throwing mechanics, I meant GREAT he has an average arm he has meh athletic ability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 NFL defenses are a lot faser than NCAA D's. A lot of spreads are one read. The spread is working it's way into the NFL, but it's not the same as college. One read running QBs get murdered in the NFL....eventually. My point is that you can implement multiple reads in a Spread. Its "not working its way into the NFL", its been in the NFL. Tom Brady runs a spread offense, Aaron Rodgers runs a spread offense, our own QB runs a spread offense. If you set up an offense with 4 to 5 wide receivers spread out across the field you are running a spread offense. NFL defenses have been getting slaughtered by QB's who run the spread offense. They may not call it a spread offense but if you're spreading out the defense with at 4 or more WR's and have a pass catching RB on the field as well then by definition you're running a spread offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 My point is that you can implement multiple reads in a Spread. Its "not working its way into the NFL", its been in the NFL. Tom Brady runs a spread offense, Aaron Rodgers runs a spread offense, our own QB runs a spread offense. If you set up an offense with 4 to 5 wide receivers spread out across the field you are running a spread offense. NFL defenses have been getting slaughtered by QB's who run the spread offense. They may not call it a spread offense but if you're spreading out the defense with at 4 or more WR's and have a pass catching RB on the field as well then by definition you're running a spread offense. I think it is due in large part to the fact you can't make a team pay for passing 50 times by beating the living sh*t out of the QB and WR's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet9 Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 My point is that you can implement multiple reads in a Spread. Its "not working its way into the NFL", its been in the NFL. Tom Brady runs a spread offense, Aaron Rodgers runs a spread offense, our own QB runs a spread offense. If you set up an offense with 4 to 5 wide receivers spread out across the field you are running a spread offense. NFL defenses have been getting slaughtered by QB's who run the spread offense. They may not call it a spread offense but if you're spreading out the defense with at 4 or more WR's and have a pass catching RB on the field as well then by definition you're running a spread offense. 2 TE sets and the spread aren't, necessarily, the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 2 TE sets and the spread aren't, necessarily, the same thing. When TE's are league leaders in receiving and TD's and are barely blocking then you can say that are necessarily the same thing. Without getting into semantics, If the league is running the spread then why do we continue to hear this concept about college QB's and this spread offense not being pro ready? If the center hikes the ball and you have 4 receivers (2 being TE's) to choose from across the field along with a RB as a safety valve then what is this big deal about "pro offenses"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet9 Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 When TE's are league leaders in receiving and TD's and are barely blocking then you can say that are necessarily the same thing. Without getting into semantics, If the league is running the spread then why do we continue to hear this concept about college QB's and this spread offense not being pro ready? If the center hikes the ball and you have 4 receivers (2 being TE's) to choose from across the field along with a RB as a safety valve then what is this big deal about "pro offenses"? Please see my first post about faster NFL Ds and one read QBs. I find these threads frustrating when people can't seem to see the chasm between the talent in the NFL and College. NFL players are so much faster and smarter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Please see my first post about faster NFL Ds and one read QBs. I find these threads frustrating when people can't seem to see the chasm between the talent in the NFL and College. NFL players are so much faster and smarter. I read your first post the first time. And it didnt answer my question, especially when I see the elite offenses in the league running the SPREAD OFFENSE. No need to be frustrated, you just dont have the answer to my initial question...and thats okay. It was more rhetorical than anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Please see my first post about faster NFL Ds and one read QBs. I find these threads frustrating when people can't seem to see the chasm between the talent in the NFL and College. NFL players are so much faster and smarter. believe it or not, you can learn to make more than 1 read. everybody knows the talent is better in the NFL what exactly is your point ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snell41 Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 believe it or not, you can learn to make more than 1 read. everybody knows the talent is better in the NFLwhat exactly is your point ? You can? Really?? Because there's only about 10 QBs in the NFL that do so consistently well. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet9 Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 You can? Really?? Because there's only about 10 QBs in the NFL that do so consistently well. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 I read your first post the first time. And it didnt answer my question, especially when I see the elite offenses in the league running the SPREAD OFFENSE. No need to be frustrated, you just dont have the answer to my initial question...and thats okay. It was more rhetorical than anything. This is a very good question. I think it's because those teams dont exclusively run the spread. They also mix in other offensive sets. I would love to see an OC in the NFL only run the spread. I am betting with a deep and good enough WR corp it could definitely work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 The spread works in college because there aren't 10 draftable corners playing at one time in the whole country, and a team like Baylor forces you to put five of those sh*theels on the field the whole game. That's why those receivers look unstoppable in college and disappear in the pros. Terrance Williams, Michael Crabtree, etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peebag Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Just say yes to Connor Cook! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetman55 Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 The issue with the college spread versus the NFL spread is the college spread has predefined throws. They arent reading a defense, most of the time they arent even progressing through reads. Hell, Baylor doesn't even use a playbook. When the play is called, the QB knows where he is throwing no matter what defense they are in. Petty never even turned his head to look at 2nd and 3rd Wrs in college and when he came to the Jets hadnt seen a playbook since high school. He looked at one guy, then the check down in college. It took Petty all preseason just to understand what a "Mike" versus "Will" linebacker is and why he needed to know the difference. It was the first thing Bowles pointed out after the first preseason game, Petty still didn't read the "Will" LB. The Jets currently run a spread offense. It is nothing like what you see on Saturdays. A QB in the NFL makes his own decisions on where to go with the ball the majority of the time...college QBs running the spread don't read anything and almost never go through progressions. Add that everything is out of the shotgun, so add piss poor footwork to the college spread because they are in the shotgun 94-98% of the plays (see Geno and Petty coming out)... The NFL is never going to a spread offense where their QBs dont have to think. The entire point of the spread offense in college was to create a system that allowed high school QBs to transition to the college game as quickly as possible...it was never input to develop NFL Qbs...quite the opposite, it was developed to enable high school QBs to be successful without thinking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 I think it is due in large part to the fact you can't make a team pay for passing 50 times by beating the living sh*t out of the QB and WR's. NFL teams also don't have 4 or more QBs on their roster or 85 subs standing on the sideline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obrien2Toon Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 We must've watched different games. He sucks. Hackenberg had his best game of the year though. Probably his best game since Franklin got there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 We must've watched different games. He sucks. Hackenberg had his best game of the year though. Probably his best game since Franklin got there. Agree on Hackenberg today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 NFL teams also don't have 4 or more QBs on their roster or 85 subs standing on the sideline everybody knows that. what is your point ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet9 Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 everybody knows that. what is your point ? The getting destroyed by D lineman ratio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 everybody knows that. what is your point ? Guess the point is you cant follow a conversation. Why don't you go back to the question of why NFL teams dont run college spread offenses and start there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Hackenberg, please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurnleyJet Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 You know with what looks like a suck'ish class of 2016, I dont want any of them. I'd like continue with Fitz, and bring Petty along who actually looked great as preseason went on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrissey Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Didn't look pro ready against USC, his picks cost them the game. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 The spread works in college because there aren't 10 draftable corners playing at one time in the whole country, and a team like Baylor forces you to put five of those sh*theels on the field the whole game. That's why those receivers look unstoppable in college and disappear in the pros. Terrance Williams, Michael Crabtree, etc But in the league you have draftable corners....just like you have draftable WR's. The Jets top 4 WR's are better than Terrance Williams and arguably Michael Crabtree. The Patriots top 4 WR's the same. Tom Brady proves that the spread works. Most would say that the Pats dont run a true spread because they utilize TE's, but before they drafted Gronk and the "murderer" they ran a typical Spread offense. When Brady had that ridiculous season in 07' the offense that they ran was the spread. There's more to it than a college team not having 10 draftable corners when the knock on the college version of the Spread offense is that its a one-read system. What is the purpose of the Spread? To isolate defenders and create opportunity for an offensive player to break one tackle and have space afterwards to eat up yards right? If you have a QB who can learn to implement more reads within the scheme then that would be a devastating offense because it stresses the defense, requires them to add another smaller defender and take a LB'er off of the field which is beneficial for the runner having one less run stopper and few defenders in the box. The reason why its so prevalent in college is because the QB also has "pre-snap" reads, implementing motion and seeing how the defense intends to attack before the ball is snapped. This is the exact same thing that Fitz does when guys like Enunwa or Decker goes in motion. Fitz is on pace to have the best statistical season of any prior Jets QB running the Spread offense. So again, my question is why are these Spread QB's in college looked down upon for running a system that works in the NFL for as long as they add multiple reads to it? Obviously these guys must be closer to "pro ready" if a good portion of the leagues offenses along with most of the "elite" offense are running this scheme. I just dont understand it when I instantly hear the statement of a guy not being pro ready because he's a one read spread QB. The spread offense is a pro offense and you can teach a rookie how to go through progressions in a spread offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 But in the league you have draftable corners....just like you have draftable WR's. The Jets top 4 WR's are better than Terrance Williams and arguably Michael Crabtree. The Patriots top 4 WR's the same. Tom Brady proves that the spread works. Most would say that the Pats dont run a true spread because they utilize TE's, but before they drafted Gronk and the "murderer" they ran a typical Spread offense. When Brady had that ridiculous season in 07' the offense that they ran was the spread. There's more to it than a college team not having 10 draftable corners when the knock on the college version of the Spread offense is that its a one-read system. What is the purpose of the Spread? To isolate defenders and create opportunity for an offensive player to break one tackle and have space afterwards to eat up yards right? If you have a QB who can learn to implement more reads within the scheme then that would be a devastating offense because it stresses the defense, requires them to add another smaller defender and take a LB'er off of the field which is beneficial for the runner having one less run stopper and few defenders in the box. The reason why its so prevalent in college is because the QB also has "pre-snap" reads, implementing motion and seeing how the defense intends to attack before the ball is snapped. This is the exact same thing that Fitz does when guys like Enunwa or Decker goes in motion. Fitz is on pace to have the best statistical season of any prior Jets QB running the Spread offense. So again, my question is why are these Spread QB's in college looked down upon for running a system that works in the NFL for as long as they add multiple reads to it? Obviously these guys must be closer to "pro ready" if a good portion of the leagues offenses along with most of the "elite" offense are running this scheme. I just dont understand it when I instantly hear the statement of a guy not being pro ready because he's a one read spread QB. The spread offense is a pro offense and you can teach a rookie how to go through progressions in a spread offense. I think you're wildly underestimating the challenge of learning how to make multiple reads on an NFL level. I can't remember who it was (Dilfer or Kurt Warner?) but they were breaking down one play in the Pats offense which resulted in an 8-yard gain to Edelman on a quick out. The read was left-to-right, and Edelman was the third read on the play, and Brady found him based on the LB taking off after the snap, the corner dropping out, and his One and Two reads on the left side getting pressed. Belichick is good friends with Urban Meyer, so there are obviously spread elements in their game, but it's far from the Baylor-type clownshoes run and shoot. The WR isn't running his route against a kid who's going to be selling shoes after graduation. If you look at the top 20 receivers in the NFL right now, Edelman is the only one who came out of the spread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 I think you're wildly underestimating the challenge of learning how to make multiple reads on an NFL level. I can't remember who it was (Dilfer or Kurt Warner?) but they were breaking down one play in the Pats offense which resulted in an 8-yard gain to Edelman on a quick out. The read was left-to-right, and Edelman was the third read on the play, and Brady found him based on the LB taking off after the snap, the corner dropping out, and his One and Two reads on the left side getting pressed. Belichick is good friends with Urban Meyer, so there are obviously spread elements in their game, but it's far from the Baylor-type clownshoes run and shoot. The WR isn't running his route against a kid who's going to be selling shoes after graduation. If you look at the top 20 receivers in the NFL right now, Edelman is the only one who came out of the spread. Of the top 20 receivers right now, Edleman may be the only one who came from a spread system, but I can bet that a few of those top 20 receivers are currently playing in the spread on a professional level. Im not wildly underestimating the learning process of a QB learning how to run the spread on a pro level. I totally understand the difference between the 2 program levels. You're not putting up 70 points on a team in the pros, and a pro defense is not going to allow any team to put on 70 points on them on a regular basis. What im saying is that, though it being a learning curve, if a QB can run a system then why not teach him a more complex version of it? He is playing in a more complex league right? You saying that im wildly underestimating the challenge is like saying that learning a "pro style" offense is somehow much easier for the QB to learn instead. Its not. This guy will have to learn everything over again from a grassroots level (Geno Smith???), atleast in the spread the QB already understands the concept of system, and you can atleast teach from that level. If one is so concerned about a QB learning a more complex version of what they ran in college then what am I to think about teaching this QB an entirely different system that he's never ran on any level? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 I dont understand this. If so many college QB's are playing Spread offense why dont OC's implement the offense? Why draft a guy and ruin what he's good at? Same reason why teams do not run the wishbone and wildcat. They are gimmick offenses and NFL defenses will eventually figure them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Of the top 20 receivers right now, Edleman may be the only one who came from a spread system, but I can bet that a few of those top 20 receivers are currently playing in the spread on a professional level. Im not wildly underestimating the learning process of a QB learning how to run the spread on a pro level. I totally understand the difference between the 2 program levels. You're not putting up 70 points on a team in the pros, and a pro defense is not going to allow any team to put on 70 points on them on a regular basis. What im saying is that, though it being a learning curve, if a QB can run a system then why not teach him a more complex version of it? He is playing in a more complex league right? You saying that im wildly underestimating the challenge is like saying that learning a "pro style" offense is somehow much easier for the QB to learn instead. Its not. This guy will have to learn everything over again from a grassroots level (Geno Smith???), atleast in the spread the QB already understands the concept of system, and you can atleast teach from that level. If one is so concerned about a QB learning a more complex version of what they ran in college then what am I to think about teaching this QB an entirely different system that he's never ran on any level? Edelman caught 1 pass for 11 yards his entire college career. He was a 3-year starting QB for Kent State, not a WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#bman Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 I like Connor Cook. Stands strong in the pocket. Maybe you can get him in the Middle/late first and not have to give up a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.