Is it fair to judge Geno Smith on this one game?

[Long Island Leprechaun]

that's fair but right now he is all we have so I'm rooting for him. 

This, in a nutshell (a pun that fits our situation perfectly), is the crux of the problem. Rooting for Geno is like rooting for Pickett to charge Cemetery Ridge. Honorable, but stupid and doomed to failure. I'm starting to like the idea of Matt f***** Flynn, and that says just how bad our situation has become.

[Sperm Edwards]

I don't think you can fix Geno's particular brand of stupid. The guy rolls right - not once but twice- and has the option to either run or throw and he allows himself to get sacked. Doesn't throw the ball away though he is clearly outside the box. He is unbelievably dumb. 

I didn't say it could be fixed (or that it could be fixed in a short span of time; perhaps it will sink in if he's been in the league as long as Fitzpatrick). I'm saying give him every bit of extra help he needs, and if that means reminding him of the crucial situation every time he's in one, then that's what you do.

[Snell41]

So I write "he is not excused for not having this awareness," and your response to that post is, "It's his awareness that's awful. You can't possibly excuse him."

The deep heaves were not fine. You don't put in a QB cold - a bad QB in cold, in his first live action since 2014 including the preseason, and tell him to go deep on 3rd & 3. You try to get him into a rhythm, to whatever extent he's able to. And your exaggerations are absurd. Fitz does not do the right thing 9 out of 10 times any more than Geno does the wrong thing 9 out of 10 times.

Both are dumb QBs on the field. Fitz is less dumb because he has over a decade of experience and I'm sure he has a higher IQ in general. But his instincts in non-planned/panic mode are bad as well. It's why he doesn't slide past the first down marker when he should; it's why he throws to the middle of the field when we're running out of time and can't stop the clock; it's why he locks in on 1 receiver and it's easy to read his eyes so he gets batted passes; it's why he is more or less incapable of going through WR progressions and still fires a deep incompletion when an easy first down pass is right in front of his face; it's why he does a lot of things that are visually contrary to his obvious paper-smarts.

My entire point was related to your last sentence. This is the QB out there. So knowing this person is going to be the QB, you either do everything you can to get past his mental handicaps or you do not do everything you can an make "excuses" for the OC. It isn't making excuses for Geno. It's trying to make the best of what he does and doesn't bring to the table, and Gailey isn't making the best of it. He ought to know better than to assume Geno knows to throw it away. 

So what you're saying is you think Gailey told Geno to go out there and heave a deep throw on his first play?  Come on Sperm you're smarter than that.  There were 3 other guys running routes on that play and I guarantee you one of them was the intended target.  Again, I can't kill him for that.  The guy wanted to make a big play.  For all he knew Fitz might have been coming back in and this was his one shot to really show something.  I won't kill that.  Yes this is the guy we're stuck with for the near future.  But when an OC has to assume his 3rd year QB has no clue that throwing a ball away stops the clock just as well as running out of bounds (and doesn't cost us negative yards while we're at it), or that slowing up towards the sideline and allowing yourself to be pushed backwards negates forward progress and keeps the clock running, well things are bad Sperm.  Not everything is everyone else's fault, you can't make crème brulee out of a pile of diahrrea. 

[Sperm Edwards]

regardless of who told him the play or how quickly he gets to the line... Geno's biggest weakness IMO is $h*tting his pants and making the worst decisions possible when the play is live and the pressure inevitably increases.  Chan (who most Geno fans have been saying they couldn't wait to see be Geno's OC ) can't hold his hand on the field once the ball is hiked

Yes he can, and yes he should. If Chip Kelly can have himself or someone in the booth break down the defense every time Foles, Sanchez, or Bradford line up, then Gailey can remind Geno to throw it away. 

If it ends up doing no good then it does no good. IMO it's foolish to say he shouldn't do it because he shouldn't have to do it.

[Sperm Edwards]

So what you're saying is you think Gailey told Geno to go out there and heave a deep throw on his first play?  Come on Sperm you're smarter than that.  There were 3 other guys running routes on that play and I guarantee you one of them was the intended target.  Again, I can't kill him for that.  The guy wanted to make a big play.  For all he knew Fitz might have been coming back in and this was his one shot to really show something.  I won't kill that.  Yes this is the guy we're stuck with for the near future.  But when an OC has to assume his 3rd year QB has no clue that throwing a ball away stops the clock just as well as running out of bounds (and doesn't cost us negative yards while we're at it), or that slowing up towards the sideline and allowing yourself to be pushed backwards negates forward progress and keeps the clock running, well things are bad Sperm.  Not everything is everyone else's fault, you can't make crème brulee out of a pile of diahrrea. 

Geno cannot go through progressions like a good QB. Neither can Fitzpatrick, really (other than his checkdown target), and Fitz is not only smarter in general but has a decade more experience. Not everyone has this skill in live action (unless the protection is other-worldly). 

If Gailey has to talk to him like a preschooler and say, "If it isn't there don't just chuck it up anyway," then yes he should do so.

And no, I don't think a cold QB - a bad one at that - should be heaving a 20-30 yard pass attempt on 3rd & 3. Gailey does that with Fitzpatrick as well and it's no less infuriating. 

Geno is what he is, and he isn't what he isn't. Gailey can't treat Geno like he's someone that he's not. Particularly not in his first live action in a year. 

[JoJoTownsell1]

Sure he did.  You never see Fitz taking terrible sacks like that and just being an absolute moron in the given situation.  

And I'm not complaining.  Just giving the assessment of the situation.

If it's Geno.  Great!  Lets do this!  Lets hope he can develop.  If it someone else, cool.  Lets do this!!!  

 

Exactly. Geno had a good game yesterday. 27 for 42 for 265 yards, 2tds and 1 int. He did that despite the defense knowing that we weren't going to run the ball.  But in the end, Geno is still Geno. He is a dufus. I am OK with him for 3 to 4 weeks, but he is not the answer. I don't foresee him getting any smarter down the road. 

[greenwichjetfan]

Its not a problem if you judge him from what you saw yesterday and I think @EM31 is right. Geno made some bonehead decisions late in the game. He was also rusty to start throwing the ball twice into double coverage, however, when he settled in the kid did some damage. 

Geno began his day with the game halfway down the toilet bowl given the defense and on the offensive side of the ball we couldnt get the running game together. The only way the Jets was able to move the ball was by Geno Smith moving them down the field. 

With that said, he completed 65% of his passes for 265 yards, had a long of 30 yards and threw 2 TD's and an INT with 1 TD dropped that hit Marshall square in the stomach as well as another TD that though was contested Marshall should had pulled in. Those numbers are very "Fitzpatrick-esque" 

Where Geno went south was when he had to improvise. That 30 yard scramble was great, but he forgot to take the yards and get out of bounds and instead gets blown up by a defender for no f'ing reason. It wasnt like he was near the endzone. Then of course after getting hit like that he was second-guessing himself to scramble again and when flushed out of the pocket instead of throwing the ball away he takes two totally unnecessary sacks. 

Geno Smith showed that he could move the offense through the air and without a running game to support him. He unfortunately also showed that he's not too bright when improvising. We could also say the same thing for Fitz though. The reason why he tore ligaments in his hand is because he decided not to slide and take the yards but instead fought for more and put himself at risk. 

Perfect example imo of how Geno's stupidity is put under a magnifying glass and blown up to overshadow his production because we continue to hold on to prior years while Fitz stupidity is basically disregarded because his prior years didnt occur in a Jets jersey. 

If not for 3 or 4 bonehead decisions by Geno I have to say he had a good game. But with those I have to say that he was just "okay". 

What are you talking about? Is this like how we lost the Patriots and Eagles games because Jeremy Kerley fair catches punts?

Jets - Raiders Play by play:

•  

  (15:00 - 1st) S.Janikowski kicks 71 yards from OAK 35 to NYJ -6. Z.Stacy to NYJ 15 for 21 yards (T.Jones).

• 1st and 10 at NYJ 15

  (14:46 - 1st) R.Fitzpatrick pass short right to B.Marshall to NYJ 23 for 8 yards (D.Hayden)

• 2nd and 2 at NYJ 23

  (14:12 - 1st) C.Ivory up the middle to NYJ 20 for -3 yards (K.Mack)

• 3rd and 5 at NYJ 20

  (13:32 - 1st) (Shotgun) R.Fitzpatrick pass short right to J.Kerley to NYJ 26 for 6 yards (D.Amerson)

• 1st and 10 at NYJ 26

  (12:57 - 1st) C.Ivory left tackle to NYJ 24 for -2 yards (M.Smith)

• 2nd and 12 at NYJ 24

  (12:21 - 1st) (Shotgun) R.Fitzpatrick pass short middle to J.Cumberland to NYJ 31 for 7 yards (C.Woodson)

• 3rd and 5 at NYJ 31

  (11:32 - 1st) (Shotgun) R.Fitzpatrick scrambles left end to NYJ 43 for 12 yards (C.Woodson). NYJ-R.Fitzpatrick was injured during the play. He is Out

• 1st and 10 at NYJ 43

  (10:50 - 1st) #7 G. Smith in at QB. C.Ivory left guard to 50 for 7 yards (C.Lofton)

 

[Smashmouth]

Yep!  He's been playing QB for how long?  You dont need to be hand holding your QB through stupid sh*t like that.  It's elementary sh*t and he cant figure it out 3 years into the league.

Oh well! Maybe it was rust.

The Sacks out of bounds are sh*t you should not have to learn in the pros that's sh*t you should not even do in high school. Lets be honest the pro game is all about quick thinking under intense pressure even vs some of the bad teams .... As a QB you never get a break from that . Some can handle it, most can't ....Geno can't. Its too much information for Geno to process that's why he can't do the little things. I think Geno is trying so hard to just adjust to the defense and learn the system he just goes blank on the fundamental stuff because there really is no explanation as to why he does some of the things he does.

[Villain The Foe]

What are you talking about? Is this like how we lost the Patriots and Eagles games because Jeremy Kerley fair catches punts?

Jets - Raiders Play by play:

•  

  (15:00 - 1st) S.Janikowski kicks 71 yards from OAK 35 to NYJ -6. Z.Stacy to NYJ 15 for 21 yards (T.Jones).

• 1st and 10 at NYJ 15

  (14:46 - 1st) R.Fitzpatrick pass short right to B.Marshall to NYJ 23 for 8 yards (D.Hayden)

• 2nd and 2 at NYJ 23

  (14:12 - 1st) C.Ivory up the middle to NYJ 20 for -3 yards (K.Mack)

• 3rd and 5 at NYJ 20

  (13:32 - 1st) (Shotgun) R.Fitzpatrick pass short right to J.Kerley to NYJ 26 for 6 yards (D.Amerson)

• 1st and 10 at NYJ 26

  (12:57 - 1st) C.Ivory left tackle to NYJ 24 for -2 yards (M.Smith)

• 2nd and 12 at NYJ 24

  (12:21 - 1st) (Shotgun) R.Fitzpatrick pass short middle to J.Cumberland to NYJ 31 for 7 yards (C.Woodson)

• 3rd and 5 at NYJ 31

  (11:32 - 1st) (Shotgun) R.Fitzpatrick scrambles left end to NYJ 43 for 12 yards (C.Woodson). NYJ-R.Fitzpatrick was injured during the play. He is Out

• 1st and 10 at NYJ 43

  (10:50 - 1st) #7 G. Smith in at QB. C.Ivory left guard to 50 for 7 yards (C.Lofton)

 

lol. Im not wasting my time explaining that game, and you can have the last word if you like. its Monday and im concentrating on who we could possibly trade for. 

 

The Kerley comment lets me know that I'll be wasting my time with you. 

[Snell41]

Geno cannot go through progressions like a good QB. Neither can Fitzpatrick, really (other than his checkdown target).

If Gailey has to talk to him like a preschooler and say, "If it isn't there don't just chuck it up anyway," then yes he should do so.

And no, I don't think a cold QB - a bad one at that - should be heaving a 20-30 yard pass attempt on 3rd & 3. Gailey does that with Fitzpatrick as well and it's no less infuriating. 

Oh, I see.  It's a shame nobody was around to tell Herm Edwards how to manage a game, or spot talent, or coach up a team, or do just about anything competent.  I mean really, with all that he could've been good.  It's a shame we can't employ 500 people to hold Geno's hand too I guess.  Let's not place the blame on the guy making the mistakes, let's go after Chan!?  Geno's an idiot.  No amount of genius constantly telling him to stop being an idiot is going to change that fact. 

[Snell41]

Geno cannot go through progressions like a good QB. Neither can Fitzpatrick, really (other than his checkdown target).

If Gailey has to talk to him like a preschooler and say, "If it isn't there don't just chuck it up anyway," then yes he should do so.

And no, I don't think a cold QB - a bad one at that - should be heaving a 20-30 yard pass attempt on 3rd & 3. Gailey does that with Fitzpatrick as well and it's no less infuriating. 

Should or shouldn't be throwing the ball 30 yards wasn't the question, the question is do you really believe Chan called a play having him do just that?  My bet is the play call had an underneath route that the deep route was intended to clear and Geno just ignored it trying to be the hero. 

[Ain't easy being Green]

Here's the thing for me, I just have never seen Geno show the consistency that is needed from a successful NFL QB. With him at QB this team will not make the playoffs.

He is just too boneheaded to be a winner.

[UnitedWhofans]

Where are the Don Strock, Steve Grogan, Pat Ryan and Frank Reich's of this NFL era? Backups could come in and handle themselves very well

[nyjunc]

Here's the thing for me, I just have never seen Geno show the consistency that is needed from a successful NFL QB. With him at QB this team will not make the playoffs.

He is just too boneheaded to be a winner.

ok but have we ever seen that from Fitz?

[nyjunc]

Where are the Don Strock, Steve Grogan, Pat Ryan and Frank Reich's of this NFL era? Backups could come in and handle themselves very well

Geno didn't handle himself well? did he give up 34 pts that could easily have been 40+?  he had 1 TO and it didn't lead to pts for oak.

[joewilly12]

ok but have we ever seen that from Fitz?

Fitz got the job done with very few mistakes he's not a flashy QB he is a game manager. 

[UnitedWhofans]

Geno didn't handle himself well? did he give up 34 pts that could easily have been 40+?  he had 1 TO and it didn't lead to pts for oak.

He acted like an idiot at the end. Pure and simple

[nyjunc]

Fitz got the job done with very few mistakes he's not a flashy QB he is a game manager. 

Fitz played well the past 2 weeks but the majority of the season he has made numerous mistakes in games but others have made up for them whether Marshall, the D, etc...

[nyjunc]

He acted like an idiot at the end. Pure and simple

that is fair but he was in a near impossible spot. 

[UnitedWhofans]

that is fair but he was in a near impossible spot. 

I disagree. I think a competant QB would have gotten us in a position to score at the very least.

[nyjunc]

I disagree. I think a competant QB would have gotten us in a position to score at the very least.

we were down 28-6, not many could have brought us back but he did make a game of it somewhat.

He was in a tough spot and he played well overall.  Now he gets a full week, Chan can gameplan for geno and we'll see what happens.

More important than the QB is what has happened to the D? if that isn't fixed we aren't winning w/ any QB.

[UnitedWhofans]

we were down 28-6, not many could have brought us back but he did make a game of it somewhat.

He was in a tough spot and he played well overall.  Now he gets a full week, Chan can gameplan for geno and we'll see what happens.

More important than the QB is what has happened to the D? if that isn't fixed we aren't winning w/ any QB.

I do think they will beat the Jaguars because if they don't they will be pelted with stones. They will still be in solid shape, just not what they aspired to be

[JohnnyLV]

Fitz got the job done with very few mistakes he's not a flashy QB he is a game manager. 

The INT Geno made was exactly like some of the INTs Fitz has thrown where the Fitz guys are saying all the time that they were "good" interceptions.

The two sacks were bad but he was just trying to make plays. He showed last year he can throw the ball away, so I would not necessarily think that it would be repeated.

He essentially played just like Fitz for the most part, except with first time starting center, no Enunwa, Owusu or Smith, Decker out quite a few plays and no balance on offense because our defense was a sieve.

But let's toss him away because he got tackled a few times trying to make plays when we needed two scores.  Whatever, Geno hatred is just blind. 

There is a good chance Geno is not the future, but he sure as hell has a ton more capabilities than Fitz. Can he get better at situation football? We shall see.

 

 

 

 

[Sperm Edwards]

Oh, I see.  It's a shame nobody was around to tell Herm Edwards how to manage a game, or spot talent, or coach up a team, or do just about anything competent.  I mean really, with all that he could've been good.  It's a shame we can't employ 500 people to hold Geno's hand too I guess.  Let's not place the blame on the guy making the mistakes, let's go after Chan!?  Geno's an idiot.  No amount of genius constantly telling him to stop being an idiot is going to change that fact. 

No, you clearly do not see. 

First, I said he is not excused. Then your counter-response is to argue that he can't be excused, as though I hadn't just said the same thing.

Next, what on earth does this have to do with Herm Edwards? The Jets are painted in a corner with Geno Smith as - in their opinion - the only option they have. They can either say "Not my fault" as they watch him fail on the field, or if they are going to put him out there, then do anything they can to see if they can get less dumbassness out of him when game situations are crucial. 

What fan would argue they should do nothing and watch him fail on his own, and rationalize that they shouldn't have to give him this extra help. He is the QB. Until such time as he is no longer the QB, they should do whatever they can to help him perform better. If he still fails, he still fails. But if this little bit of extra could make a difference I don't see why anyone would argue that he shouldn't.

If Gailey is not whispering in his ear, knowing what we all know about Geno's lack of situational awareness, then yes he bears some blame.

[cant wait]

Fitz got the job done with very few mistakes he's not a flashy QB he is a game manager. 

fitz has at least one turnover in every game this year, he's made plenty of mistakes this year. Geno stepped in off the bench without mangold and played at about the same level as fitz has this season but made a couple nice throws that showed a potential upside as well 

[greenwichjetfan]

lol. Im not wasting my time explaining that game, and you can have the last word if you like. its Monday and im concentrating on who we could possibly trade for. 

 

The Kerley comment lets me know that I'll be wasting my time with you. 

Easy big guy, you're the one that called me an assclown last week because I refuted your stance that "Kerley on ST is the reason we lost" to the Patriots. And now you're here to tell us that Geno came into the game when it was already in the toilet? I mean, even if you're just spouting off without watching the games, at least check the play by plays. 

I'm glad you agree that your Kerley arguments are a complete waste of time, and it makes sense that you're giving me the last word. All of yours so far have been on the wrong side of stupid. 

[JetBlue]

The Jets didnt look completely lost with him under center yesterday. As stated, the only way the Jets moved the ball yesterday was through Geno Smith. The running game was non-existent. And its not that it "will probably be blamed on practice time", that is a legit case in point right there. Geno hasnt had the rapport with the starters that Fitz has had for the past 3 months. Remember, not only was Fitz building that relationship since the 1st week of the preseason, but Geno was hurt for the entire preseason and the first 3 weeks of the reg. season. So Geno may have been throwing the football as a fulltime back up for the past 5 weeks or so. 

You can most certainly hold on to what Geno has done in the past. Your perception is based on what you've seen from him, I cant say thats wrong. At the same time though you cant not make a legit reality "non legit" because of what you think of him. That level of reasoning is the exact thing that I've argued against. Be critical, but be fair in your criticism. 

Not to mention that Brick almost got him killed.  That was one of the worst Whiffs on a blocker I have ever seen.   Smith made four crucial mistakes to me

1.  The INT - he tried to just loft it up instead of putting a little more zip to it.  I chalk that up to rust.  

2.  The 3rd and 4 play when he took the sack instead of trying to run for the first down.  On the one hand I am glad he didn't try to force the ball into coverage, but his decision making was too slow; again that may be a factor of having not played since August.  

3. The Sack he took toward the end of the game.  Just plain stupid to take a sack like that, losing about 7 yards in the process when he could have just thrown the ball away.  Having said that, the game was already over at that point anyway.   He has GOT to speed up is decision making.  

4. Allowing himself to get absolutely nailed at the end of his nifty run down the sidelines.   I bet he goes out of bounds the next time, lol.  To his credit at least he bounced right back up.  

As I look back over the game, I realize that Geno played decently all things considered.  The Raider game is now in the books; what is important now, assuming he is healthy and Fitz is still out, is having a full week of practice as the starter and seeing if he can correct those mental errors.  I know Bowles and Gailey had to read him the riot act on a few of those plays. 

Btw, I think Brick owes the kid an major apology on that phantom block.  That was just plain ugly. 

[JetBlue]

fitz has at least one turnover in every game this year, he's made plenty of mistakes this year. Geno stepped in off the bench without mangold and played at about the same level as fitz has this season but made a couple nice throws that showed a potential upside as well 

Don't bother; Geno is hated and nothing will change that.  I guess folks were expecting miracles from a guy who missed the entire preseason.  Its easy and fun to pick on Geno; he made his share of silly mistakes yesterday but also played okay considering he had no running game and his defense couldn't stop anyone for the vast majority of the game. 

[Villain The Foe]

Easy big guy, you're the one that called me an assclown last week because I refuted your stance that "Kerley on ST is the reason we lost" to the Patriots. And now you're here to tell us that Geno came into the game when it was already in the toilet? I mean, even if you're just spouting off without watching the games, at least check the play by plays. 

I'm glad you agree that your Kerley arguments are a complete waste of time, and it makes sense that you're giving me the last word. All of yours so far have been on the wrong side of stupid. 

#lastweek. 

Sorry I hurt your feelings last week and forgot. 

[JetBlue]

Is it fair?  No because since his injury he's not been getting the reps
to properly prepare.  BUT the initial sample yesterday wasn't encouraging,
I don't think these were coincidences:

- The OLine had pre-snap penalties

- The OLine "all of a sudden" gave up sacks

- Throws were rushed & pre-determined to certain players

- There was no sense of calm & stability at the QB position

Smith has all the "sexy" tangible skills you want (speed, arm strength,
mobility & ability to strike vertically).  The only thing we can hope
is he learned some of the "boring" skills Fitzpatrick displayed (using
cadence to decipher blitzes, using motion to determine zone/man, etc.)
and improves

Could there be a correlation to having no Nick Mangold? Just asking.....   Fitz has also rushed throws and made pre-determined throws to certain players or did you not notice this because we had won 4 of those games?   When we lost to Philadelphia I didn't see this sense of calm and stability you are speaking about...  The bottom line is this is a team game and neither Fitz or Smith is good enough to win by themselves.  When our running game is stopped and our defense falters like it did yesterday, we are not beating ANYBODY I don't care who is at qb. 

[JetBlue]

Fitz got the job done with very few mistakes he's not a flashy QB he is a game manager. 

Fitz made mistakes in every game, fortunately they weren't the killer kind. He was also the beneficiary of a defense that was turning the opposing offense over at a outstanding clip.  The last few games we have been minus in the turnover department and partly as a result we have lost three of the last four games.    

[JetBlue]

 This thread will go on for at least 10+ pages and no one's opinion will change.  My hope is

Smith has used the past 3 months learning the "boring" things Fitzpatrick bought to the offense

and can incorporate them into his game.  With a full week of practice, Mangold coming back

and a favorable schedule he doesn't have any excuses left 

Best post in this thread. Thank you KRL.  

[jetguy32]

I believe he deserves one more game if Fitz isn't available.  Problem is he will never stop taking 18 yard sacks, running backwards, and he will never learn to throw the ball away. Bottom line is he doesn't have the brain to play qb.

 

Get Flynn in as the back up.  

[greenwichjetfan]

#lastweek. 

Sorry I hurt your feelings last week and forgot. 

Jets/Raiders was yesterday, and the post in which you went full retard was 6 hours ago, but I can understand your confusion. Like Geno, you probably can't handle all the time adjustments between daylight savings and the trip out west. Here, I'll show you your post below. Notice the timestamp:  

Geno began his day with the game halfway down the toilet bowl given the defense and on the offensive side of the ball we couldnt get the running game together. 

So wait, when Geno came in yesterday with a 1st and 10 near midfield with the score 0-0 and our defense having not even seen the field yet, just how unfair was that to Geno? 

Also, what does "halfway down the toilet bowl" mean and how does it compare to 5/8ths or 3/4ths of the way down in a 0-0 game with 55 minutes left to play?

Lastly, just how badly had our defense already put us in a hole? 

[Savage69]

Where are the Don Strock, Steve Grogan, Pat Ryan and Frank Reich's of this NFL era? Backups could come in and handle themselves very well

His name is Fitz a fine backup QB we don't have a number 1..