Home From Houston with Thoughts

[jack48]

We don't have 4 combined players worthy of JJ Watt.  I mean seriously, give them Sheldon, Mo, Revis, and Williams and they're collectively still not worth Watt.  And that better be the party line when it comes to discussing the contracts for Mo and Sheldon.

all the Jets have to do is run the tape of this game in the negotiations

[jack48]

Nothing but again, if the team doesnt do one thing well, who's fault is that?  The talent is there.  

 

We need exceptional defense to balance off our less than average offense.  we are not getting exceptional defense.  Kind of remind me of Rex's crew.  They look good for a few series and suddenly someone completely blows a read or a coverage. 

[jack48]

sorry you had to go to Texas to see that isht show... my take away was  a lot of dropped passes by our WRs... Decker should be tearing it up against #2 CBs asked to single cover him and when Fitz does go to him the ball bounces off his chest...

It is unusual to have two possession receivers who drop (and fumble) the ball like Deck and Brandon do.  You expect it from the rabbits like Smith.

[Ex-Rex]

I agree that the defensive line has not produced the way four first round picks should, but they are not terrible. What is terrible is the offensive line which can't open a hole for a back like Ivory. When Mangold is out they pack it in. The Jets need to do what Dallas did and draft some studs for the line so they can get back to play action that actually works because the Jets can run the ball whenever they want against whatever front the defense presents. Can't do that now with the mediocrity they have collected there. Ferguson was never a great run blocker and now he is not a superior pass blocker either. Time to replace him, and Mangold will need replacing in a year or so. Build the foundation Mac or risk losing it all in another year or two. Flashy, splashy picks may make Woody tingle all over, but does nothing to make the team better.

[Ex-Rex]

Nothing but again, if the team doesnt do one thing well, who's fault is that?  The talent is there.  

 

You are over rating the "talent" on the Jets. Yes, they have upgraded the WR position, but no TE and a porous OL is the reason the Jets can't score. Defensively the team has no cover safeties, and Pryor is a one trick pony and dosen't show that trick (big hits) nearly enough. The LB's are good run stuffers but can't cover my grandmother. This team is two drafts (good ones) and FA signings away. And Bryce Petty has to be the real deal or it's back to the drawing board. I would draft a QB every single year until I found the right one.

[JustInFudge]

Fire the coach is essentially the Jets Fan's mating call.  I suppose it's naive to think that will ever change.

Did I say fire him?  I dont recall that.  Is it not fair to be critical of his performance or lack there of?  I think this team is under performing.  They just lost to TJ Yates for christ sake.

We need exceptional defense to balance off our less than average offense.  we are not getting exceptional defense.  Kind of remind me of Rex's crew.  They look good for a few series and suddenly someone completely blows a read or a coverage. 

Right now, nothing is even good, let alone exceptional. 

[JustInFudge]

You are over rating the "talent" on the Jets. Yes, they have upgraded the WR position, but no TE and a porous OL is the reason the Jets can't score. Defensively the team has no cover safeties, and Pryor is a one trick pony and dosen't show that trick (big hits) nearly enough. The LB's are good run stuffers but can't cover my grandmother. This team is two drafts (good ones) and FA signings away. And Bryce Petty has to be the real deal or it's back to the drawing board. I would draft a QB every single year until I found the right one.

I dont think I am.  I think this team is loaded with talent that is being under utilized or not utilized at all and are certainly under performing. 

Nobody was complaining about the talent when the team was 4-1 but now its an issue?  come'on

[Beerfish]

For me the number one problem with the D is the same as it has been for 7 or 8 years.  No play making olbs and coaches who over value aging vets that can't run because they are smart.  Even one fast pass rushing olb small DE with the core of the dline and it would make both units much better.  It's too bad Gholston was such a colossal bust because he was just the type of player this team needed.

You almost always get a better match up going one on one vs a tackle and also often get more holding calls on the outside than on the inside.

 

[ZachEY]

Did I say fire him?  I dont recall that.  Is it not fair to be critical of his performance or lack there of?  I think this team is under performing.  They just lost to TJ Yates for christ sake.

Right now, nothing is even good, let alone exceptional. 

You did not say fire him.  But, ultimately, that's where this eventually heads.  The point I'm trying to make is that the continuous blaming of the coach for the team's lack of success is misguided, IMO.  And, history seems to bear that out.  As, we continue to switch coaches (and coordinators) and find ourselves with similar results, as bad drafting/signings continue.

[ZachEY]

I dont think I am.  I think this team is loaded with talent that is being under utilized or not utilized at all and are certainly under performing. 

Nobody was complaining about the talent when the team was 4-1 but now its an issue?  come'on

Poor offensive line (age/injuries) and poor QB play.  WRs and Running Backs don't matter when you have that combination.

[ZachEY]

I agree that the defensive line has not produced the way four first round picks should, but they are not terrible. What is terrible is the offensive line which can't open a hole for a back like Ivory. When Mangold is out they pack it in. The Jets need to do what Dallas did and draft some studs for the line so they can get back to play action that actually works because the Jets can run the ball whenever they want against whatever front the defense presents. Can't do that now with the mediocrity they have collected there. Ferguson was never a great run blocker and now he is not a superior pass blocker either. Time to replace him, and Mangold will need replacing in a year or so. Build the foundation Mac or risk losing it all in another year or two. Flashy, splashy picks may make Woody tingle all over, but does nothing to make the team better.

I am absolutely not calling the defensive line terrible.  I'm saying exactly what you did.  That they are underperforming their draft equity, and that hurts the whole team.

As for flashy picks, I'm okay with taken "flashy" players if we think they're going to be great players.  We need that too.  Really, we can't afford to miss like we have been in the drafts, or we'll continue to be devoid of young talent, as we are now.

[Integrity28]

This post shall be referred to as The 2015 Chronicle of Painful Truths from this moment forward. There'll probably be an addendum with a few others added in, but by and large, this is really the chronic diarrhea that is this season.

[JustInFudge]

You did not say fire him.  But, ultimately, that's where this eventually heads.  The point I'm trying to make is that the continuous blaming of the coach for the team's lack of success is misguided, IMO.  And, history seems to bear that out.  As, we continue to switch coaches (and coordinators) and find ourselves with similar results, as bad drafting/signings continue.

We both know its completely contingent on the QB.  There is no mistaking that...but when you dont have that, you rely on coaching to create favorable game plans that are executable.  You also have certain expectations in your Head Coach.  For example, a defensive Head Coach to be facing TJ Yates on a short week...you'd expect a little better performance from his D.  You also need your coach to be money on game management because the slightest errors that give the opponent life are amplified with teams that lack the fire power to get them back in games.  And unfortunately, we've seen that on full display the last few weeks.

Again, the talent level was just fine when 4-1.  What changed?

 

 

[JustInFudge]

Poor offensive line (age/injuries) and poor QB play.  WRs and Running Backs don't matter when you have that combination.

So a couple of injuries and thats it?  Game over, nothing can be done?  I think that's misguided.  Big time.

[Snell41]

I dont think I am.  I think this team is loaded with talent that is being under utilized or not utilized at all and are certainly under performing. 

Nobody was complaining about the talent when the team was 4-1 but now its an issue?  come'on

This is a 500 team.  It always was.  And that's exactly how they're performing.  500 teams win some surprising games, lose some head scratchers, and end up around 7-9 to 9-7.  It's what we are.  Every single pundit/analyst, fan, you name it all had us pegged as the worst team in our division. 

[ZachEY]

For me the number one problem with the D is the same as it has been for 7 or 8 years.  No play making olbs and coaches who over value aging vets that can't run because they are smart.  Even one fast pass rushing olb small DE with the core of the dline and it would make both units much better.  It's too bad Gholston was such a colossal bust because he was just the type of player this team needed.

You almost always get a better match up going one on one vs a tackle and also often get more holding calls on the outside than on the inside.

 

I'm coining the term, The Curse of John Abraham.  I doubt this will catch on.

[ZachEY]

This post shall be referred to as The 2015 Chronicle of Painful Truths from this moment forward. There'll probably be an addendum with a few others added in, but by and large, this is really the chronic diarrhea that is this season.

LOL.  Thanks?

[Integrity28]

Fire the coach is essentially the Jets Fan's mating call.  I suppose it's naive to think that will ever change.

Probably is, but I fully expect that as long as Woody wants rookie HC's, that there'll need to be a curve that we, as fans, just accept. Look at the league, it is very VERY rare that an upstart team jumps in from out-of-nowhere to become relevant and win it all. Not in the same season that they hire their coach. Football programs take years just to solidify, let-alone refine to the level of being able to win it all... or at least contend regularly. 

Even when you have it all figured out, it can all burst suddenly and without warning. Like it did for San Fran last year, and Baltimore this year. 

I think Bowles is a good hire. I hate that he's exhibiting bad tendencies, but hope he continually improves. Reality for this team is that they have been a bottom 5 drafting team since Parcells, so for almost 20 years. More specifically, the Tannenbaum, Rex, Idzik impact on the roster was horrible. Like, put us on par with the Browns, Lions and Raiders for being a perennial joke. This is why I can never understand the whole "Rex 2 afcc games" bit. He was one of 3 major cogs in the biggest setback this team has maybe ever seen. The most talented players on this team are 2 years from being irrelevant. Otherwise, we're looking at about 80% of this team that is going to require eventual turnover, in that span. 

What does that mean? By the time we have a RG, we're going to need to replace our LT and C too. By the time we have a QB (I wish), we're going to have to replace our 2 starting WRs. 

It's a work in progress. We're trying to outrun time and the past all at once.

[ZachEY]

We both know its completely contingent on the QB.  There is no mistaking that...but when you dont have that, you rely on coaching to create favorable game plans that are executable.  You also have certain expectations in your Head Coach.  For example, a defensive Head Coach to be facing TJ Yates on a short week...you'd expect a little better performance from his D.  You also need your coach to be money on game management because the slightest errors that give the opponent life are amplified with teams that lack the fire power to get them back in games.  And unfortunately, we've seen that on full display the last few weeks.

Again, the talent level was just fine when 4-1.  What changed?

 

 

Ok.  Well, I guess this is part of where we see things differently.  I think that in general, coach vs. coach, at least in the gameplan department, your going to come out with a wash more than with the players in the field.  We have two big match-up problems, the QB as we agree on, and the offensive line.  Perhaps strategy could be better developed as I said, but those two things are a lot to coach around.  Especially when our big-play ability is limited by the talent we have.  For instance, the Texans beat us in large part with big plays, and by shutting us down on defense.  Considering the poor performance of the offense, I actually didn't think the defense was so bad.  But, the Texans have the ability to create those match up problems on us that allow for the home runs.  We would have too, were Devin Smith able to catch.

In large part, our opponents got us to 4-1.  I know people hate this answer too, but schedule matters.  It's not something you apologize for, but it plays a role.  Our first 5 were against teams who collectively were not as good as our last 5. Our opponents from the first 5 games are 19-31 vs. 28-22 in the last 5 games.  And yes, the Pats skew that data, but so do the Browns, and honestly, the Colts too, who are undoubtedly a better team now than they were when we played them.  I suppose if you're arguing otherwise, you'd have to account for why the coaching suddenly got dumb at 4-1?

[ZachEY]

So a couple of injuries and thats it?  Game over, nothing can be done?  I think that's misguided.  Big time.

Things can be done.  But reality should not be ignored, that the team is less talented after the injury than before.

[ZachEY]

Probably is, but I fully expect that as long as Woody wants rookie HC's, that there'll need to be a curve that we, as fans, just accept. Look at the league, it is very VERY rare that an upstart team jumps in from out-of-nowhere to become relevant and win it all. Not in the same season that they hire their coach. Football programs take years just to solidify, let-alone refine to the level of being able to win it all... or at least contend regularly. 

Even when you have it all figured out, it can all burst suddenly and without warning. Like it did for San Fran last year, and Baltimore this year. 

I think Bowles is a good hire. I hate that he's exhibiting bad tendencies, but hope he continually improves. Reality for this team is that they have been a bottom 5 drafting team since Parcells, so for almost 20 years. More specifically, the Tannenbaum, Rex, Idzik impact on the roster was horrible. Like, put us on par with the Browns, Lions and Raiders for being a perennial joke. This is why I can never understand the whole "Rex 2 afcc games" bit. He was one of 3 major cogs in the biggest setback this team has maybe ever seen. The most talented players on this team are 2 years from being irrelevant. Otherwise, we're looking at about 80% of this team that is going to require eventual turnover, in that span. 

What does that mean? By the time we have a RG, we're going to need to replace our LT and C too. By the time we have a QB (I wish), we're going to have to replace our 2 starting WRs. 

It's a work in progress. We're trying to outrun time and the past all at once.

Agreed with all of this.  Brandon Marshall, et. al. are band-aids while they try to build something meaningful.  But, you do have to give people a little bit of rope here, while the team has been a perennial joke in many ways, it's hard to sit here in year, what, 5 of a rebuild that still doesn't show a lot of promise to go anywhere?

[ZachEY]

I wonder how other teams stack up regarding this.  For the sake of discussion, I'm defining a Quality Starter as someone who I think would start on most teams in the league:

2008: 0

2009: 0

2010: 0

2011: Jeremy Kerley (punt returner/unused WR), Bilal Powell (Backup RB), Muhammad Wilkerson (Quality Starter)

2012: Demario Davis (Starter)

2013: Tommy Bohannan (Fullback), Brian Winters (Backup Guard), Geno Smith (Back up QB), Sheldon Richardson (Quality Starter), Dee Milliner (IR Corner)

2014: Trevor Reilly (Backup LB/STs), Quincy Enunwa (Depth WR), Dakota Dozier (Backup Guard), Dexter McDougle (Backup CB), Jace Amaro (IR TE), Calvin Pryor (Starter)

What I see in this is that in the 7 years leading up to this one, we've drafted 2 guys I'd call quality starters with one of them possibly heading for additional suspensions.  We've got 4 actual starters in that mix, and none of whom are on offense.

Despite what they've done in free agency, it's hard for me to look at this team and think it's talented.

[Beerfish]

Probably is, but I fully expect that as long as Woody wants rookie HC's, that there'll need to be a curve that we, as fans, just accept. Look at the league, it is very VERY rare that an upstart team jumps in from out-of-nowhere to become relevant and win it all. Not in the same season that they hire their coach. Football programs take years just to solidify, let-alone refine to the level of being able to win it all... or at least contend regularly. 

Even when you have it all figured out, it can all burst suddenly and without warning. Like it did for San Fran last year, and Baltimore this year. 

I think Bowles is a good hire. I hate that he's exhibiting bad tendencies, but hope he continually improves. Reality for this team is that they have been a bottom 5 drafting team since Parcells, so for almost 20 years. More specifically, the Tannenbaum, Rex, Idzik impact on the roster was horrible. Like, put us on par with the Browns, Lions and Raiders for being a perennial joke. This is why I can never understand the whole "Rex 2 afcc games" bit. He was one of 3 major cogs in the biggest setback this team has maybe ever seen. The most talented players on this team are 2 years from being irrelevant. Otherwise, we're looking at about 80% of this team that is going to require eventual turnover, in that span. 

What does that mean? By the time we have a RG, we're going to need to replace our LT and C too. By the time we have a QB (I wish), we're going to have to replace our 2 starting WRs. 

It's a work in progress. We're trying to outrun time and the past all at once.

Get a good enough QB and a system in this league and it almost doesn't matter in a lot of other areas.  For the life of me I have no idea how the pats do it.

[peekskill68]

I think we're just going to disagree on the talent level.  It's very solid and I think if you did comparison to rosters around the league, we'd be right up there with anyone else. Definitely good enough to not be dropping 4 out of 5 games to sh*tty teams.  Struggling to use talent, is on coaching.  Every bill we were sold on Bowles and Gailey were that they can do a lot with a little, that they play the best players and cater to the strengths of the team.  We are seeing none of that.  None of that at all.

1 DE and 1 WR shouldnt be too much for a team as talented as the Jets to handle.  That's ridiculous.   Teams all around the league find ways to cover up their weaknesses, this team cant.  Why?  Its because they stick to their guns and "dont let teams dictate how they play".  Well, teams now know how the Jets play under Bowles and they've adjusted accordingly.  Now what do the Jets do about it?  

The answer isnt, just give up because we're just not good enough.  

+1 I'm in total agreement here.  I just watch games like the Bengals v. Cards and last nite with the Pats and it made me think that the talent level is alot closer team to team than I ever thought in the past.  Sure there are some outliers like Watt and Brady who can take over a game, but for the most part the quality difference among the 46 players who dress for the 32 teams each weekend isn't that wide.  It makes me think the spread between a Belicheck and a Bowles is significantly more of a factor in deciding outcomes than taking a Quniton Coples over a Chandler Jones in 2012...

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

- In the box matrix of watching football, there's Exciting/Win, Boring/Win, Exciting/Lose, and Boring/Lose.  Sadly, the Jets fit into the Boring/Lose category.  There was about 5 minutes of that game that were entertaining, and that time was punctuated by Fitzpatrick staring down his receivers and throwing the ball away.  This is why so many people claim to be abandoning ship.  If you're going to lose, at least be entertaining in the loss.

Let's not forget the last 3 years; Painful Loss/Embarrassing Football category, I have not abandoned ship since the team has had a chance in all but 1 game so it is watchable and boring is better than horrible football aka buttfumble

Agree Defense is disappointing, secondary and Dline, Pryor had a nice comeback but overall the team needs a spark and I think that can come from team leaders (players) or the coaching staff, someone has to step up   

[Larz]

no worries ! we are only paying revis QB money through 2017 !

then he will hold out again !  yay !

[PatriotReign37]

Kind of the point of the thread... The Jets don't really have a strength.  Way too many missed draft picks and no QB.

The Jets have given up 208 points. The Cards 216. the Panthers 191. I would say the defense is pretty good.

  Very surprised that a 3 string QB who had only a 46% completion percentage had that kind of success. That's my point. You still have to score points to win regardless of how good the Texans defense played.

[ZachEY]

no worries ! we are only paying revis QB money through 2017 !

then he will hold out again !  yay !

I think Revis's hold out days are over.  No team is going to put up with it for merely an above average to good CB.

[T0mShane]

So, I traveled with my father to Houston to watch some terrible football, and came home with a few thoughts.  Indulge me... Or not...

- In the box matrix of watching football, there's Exciting/Win, Boring/Win, Exciting/Lose, and Boring/Lose.  Sadly, the Jets fit into the Boring/Lose category.  There was about 5 minutes of that game that were entertaining, and that time was punctuated by Fitzpatrick staring down his receivers and throwing the ball away.  This is why so many people claim to be abandoning ship.  If you're going to lose, at least be entertaining in the loss.

- Coaching has been underwhelming.  I don't think it's as bad as people make it out to be, but it certainly was not good.  I absolutely hate the party line that the team came out flat.  People act like you either win, or you come out flat.  We lost to Houston because they were a better team.  They won the battle at the line of scrimmage and Hopkins won his individual matchup.  They won those match-ups because they were better, regardless of the coach.  That said, there's plenty of cause for concern.  The clock-management of late has been poor and the decision not to max protect for Watt was questionable, as was that 12-men penalty.  Still, we lost this game because we lack the talent to be a consistently good team.  That our best offensive play was a pass interference penalty should speak to that.

- Talent is, was, and seems as if it will always be the problem.  The coaching staff has not impressed, but they aren't the main reason we are losing games right now.  We're losing games because we simply aren't a very good football team.  Compared to last year, we have a few more recognizable names, but I'm not sure we're much better.  Years and years of terrible drafting and this is the result.  Think about it this way, if Houston came calling and said they want to trade you JJ Watt, but we want 4 players of our choice, can you think of ANY four players you wouldn't give them right now to make that deal?  I'm not so sure.  We are going to need a few good drafts in a row to make up for all the bad drafting that's been done as of late.

- The debate about Fitz/Geno has certainly driven post counts, but it's largely irrelevant.  They both aren't getting it done.  Earlier in the year, I said something supporting Fitzpatrick based on the fact that I thought his play was sub-par, but the team was winning, so you could not make the switch.  His play hasn't changed all that much, but the team is losing.  I'd be open to going with Geno, only because of youth and a better arm, but honestly, it doesn't really matter, because unless Petty takes a monster leap forward, there's still not a QB on this roster.  It's a wash, despite how much time people are investing in the debate.

- I agree with McCagnan, that this season's success is not measured in a playoff appearance.  However, this season unfortunately isn't hitting other metrics of success either, so that's a problem.  My biggest concern in that regard is what gives us something to be excited about for the future.  Sadly, Leonard Williams and Devin Smith are not producing or flashing in any meaningful way, and the most exciting player on this team, Brandon Marshall, won't be around by the time the team catches up, if it does.

- The biggest disappointment of the season is the defensive line.  The amount of money and draft equity locked up on this unit and they're not really winning the battle at the LOS consistently.  Hopefully Leonard Williams turns into a player, but it looks like we have another guy who can't get to the QB.  With the amount invested at this position, it should be a top of the league, foreboding unit, instead of 'above average' at best.

- Paying Cro was a mistake, but so was paying Revis.  I'm no Idzik supporter, and have said on numerous occasions that it was correct to fire him, but if you can't see the wisdom in some of his restraint, you're just being biased.  Revis is still a good CB, but he's not an elite anymore.  He never had the best physical tools, and as he gets older, we're seeing younger, more athletic guys, have their way with him.  If Cro wasn't so bad, Cooper would have destroyed him, and Hopkins made Revis look like a practice squad player.  He'll still make plays, but that's in large part due to him being challenged much more.  Interestingly, this is probably the first time we've been solid at safety in forever.

- Why do we never run play action passes?

- Our WRs drop way too many passes... When your QB sucks, you can't get away with that.

- Our return game is non-existent, and this is a team that needs to win the field position battle.

- Sanchez had a 3-pick debacle, so at least that was enjoyable.

- Houston is the city of 1000 Parking Garages.  Had some solid meals though.

- Go Rangers... Go Knicks...

I just wanted to say that I read this three times and it is an excellent breakdown. 

[The Crusher]

I just wanted to say that I read this three times and it is an excellent breakdown. 

This make me think it would be a bad decision for EY to accept a drink from you at a party.  Just saying.

[T0mShane]

Probably is, but I fully expect that as long as Woody wants rookie HC's, that there'll need to be a curve that we, as fans, just accept. Look at the league, it is very VERY rare that an upstart team jumps in from out-of-nowhere to become relevant and win it all. Not in the same season that they hire their coach. Football programs take years just to solidify, let-alone refine to the level of being able to win it all... or at least contend regularly. 

Even when you have it all figured out, it can all burst suddenly and without warning. Like it did for San Fran last year, and Baltimore this year. 

I think Bowles is a good hire. I hate that he's exhibiting bad tendencies, but hope he continually improves. Reality for this team is that they have been a bottom 5 drafting team since Parcells, so for almost 20 years. More specifically, the Tannenbaum, Rex, Idzik impact on the roster was horrible. Like, put us on par with the Browns, Lions and Raiders for being a perennial joke. This is why I can never understand the whole "Rex 2 afcc games" bit. He was one of 3 major cogs in the biggest setback this team has maybe ever seen. The most talented players on this team are 2 years from being irrelevant. Otherwise, we're looking at about 80% of this team that is going to require eventual turnover, in that span. 

What does that mean? By the time we have a RG, we're going to need to replace our LT and C too. By the time we have a QB (I wish), we're going to have to replace our 2 starting WRs. 

It's a work in progress. We're trying to outrun time and the past all at once.

This is also a great post, and it's why I couldn't really enjoy the Rex/Idzik firing party. So much damage had been done at every level of the organization that it was going to take the next regime a few years just to get it back to zero. 

[T0mShane]

This make me think it would be a bad decision for EY to accept a drink from you at a party.  Just saying.

I employ blow-darts these days anyway.

[ZachEY]

This make me think it would be a bad decision for EY to accept a drink from you at a party.  Just saying.

Please... TomShane wouldn't need to dope me.  My body is ready.

[PatsFanTX]

Nice post.  Thanks for sharing.

Disagree with the talent level on the team.  It's vastly improved from last season and is on par with any team in the league.br /> 

You can't seriously think the Jets talent level is on par with any team in the league.

The Jets biggest problem is they lack talent.

Their best players are old, slow and soft.

They have ZERO young playmakers on the roster.

The Jets are a mediocre .500 team for one reason, their 53-man roster lacks talent.

[ZachEY]

You can't seriously think the Jets talent level is on par with any team in the league.

The Jets biggest problem is they lack talent.

Their best players are old, slow and soft.

They have ZERO young playmakers on the roster.

The Jets are a mediocre .500 team for one reason, their 53-man roster lacks talent.

 

No QB, No Pass Rush, and Slow.

There are some talented players, but really to me, that's what keeps us from being a top 3 pick.