Is B Marshall in the conversation for the best receiver in the NFL in 2015

[BurnleyJet]

 

Marshall is the Jets MVP

 

Joint with IK Enemkpali..

 

[Villain The Foe]

i know Antonio Brown is a stud, but he did little without big Ben.

Marshall through 13 games: 89 catches, 1187 yards, 11TD's

Top 3? Top 5?

 

Best move of the offseason, Revis, Fitz and Williams included.

Between Odell and Brown.  Marshall is definitely top 5 though.

Marshall is most definitely in the conversation. Odell may get it but I dont believe Marshall is out of the question when compared to Antonio Brown. Antonio Brown has 200 more receiving yards than Marshall but Marshall has 4 more TD's than Brown. 

I'd take the TD's over the yards any day. Marshall is tied for 3rd most TD's amongst receivers and is top 5 in yards. Antonio Brown cant say that. 

[k-met57]

 

Marshall is most definitely in the conversation. Odell may get it but I dont believe Marshall is out of the question when compared to Antonio Brown. Antonio Brown has 200 more receiving yards than Marshall but Marshall has 4 more TD's than Brown. 

I'd take the TD's over the yards any day. Marshall is tied for 3rd most TD's amongst receivers and is top 5 in yards. Antonio Brown cant say that. 

i don't know if i buy that TDs are "impossible to predict" as someone said earlier. part of what has made Marshall great this year and over his career is that he can go get it in the red zone. i probably agree with Odell being the best just because the dude is such a freak, but personally marshall is right up there...esp if he has a good 3 games to close the season and ends up something like 14-1500 yards and 14-16 TD's.

[Long Island Leprechaun]

Got it. So they never really said that and you just made it up.

I interpreted their stated qualifiers for what they were. And what they did not address. So, yeah, if you want to call that making it up, so be it. That's a straw man.

[afosomf]

above BM,  Julio  Sammie  Hopkins Antonio  and Odell  Top 6 aint shabby.

[JOJOTOWNSELL]

i have a fantasy team that Brandon Marshall and Eric Decker started on every week and I'm in the playoff semifinals this week..........

 

let that sink in

[Villain The Foe]

i don't know if i buy that TDs are "impossible to predict" as someone said earlier. part of what has made Marshall great this year and over his career is that he can go get it in the red zone. i probably agree with Odell being the best just because the dude is such a freak, but personally marshall is right up there...esp if he has a good 3 games to close the season and ends up something like 14-1500 yards and 14-16 TD's.

I agree. The yards are great, but Marshall is putting up points which is most important. I'll take Marshalls 4 extra TD's over Browns 200 extra yards. TD's may be impossible to predict but the current amounts are there for everyone to see. 

[afosomf]

I agree. The yards are great, but Marshall is putting up points which is most important. I'll take Marshalls 4 extra TD's over Browns 200 extra yards. TD's may be impossible to predict but the current amounts are there for everyone to see. 

Ummm If steelers GM called and said he would give you Antonio for BM, you couldnt say Yes quick enuff

[Villain The Foe]

Ummm If steelers GM called and said he would give you Antonio for BM, you couldnt say Yes quick enuff

In terms of age, of course, but this isnt about age or the future but about what is produced during this particular year...and B Marshall is having a better year and is more consistent. Marshall has scored in every game but 3, Brown has 8 games where he didnt score a point. 

I'd rather take Marshall's production, Id rather have Brown in terms of the future. 

[afosomf]

In terms of age, of course, but this isnt about age or the future but about what is going at this particular year...and B Marshall is having a better year and is more consistent. Marshall has scored in every game but 3, Brown has 8 games where he didnt score a point. 

I'd rather take Marshall's production, Id rather have Brown in terms of the future. 

Brown's production fell a little because he had vick and Landry jones play some games, Brown rarely drops the ball unlike BM. The talent between them is not close imo and Brown is much younger. 

[Villain The Foe]

Brown's production fell a little because he had vick and Landry jones play some games, Brown rarely drops the ball unlike BM. The talent between them is not close imo and Brown is much younger. 

We can talk about the talent, and we can talk about being much younger, but thats not the topic. The topic is "The best receiver of 2015". And though Brown is in the conversation, he's inconsistent (given that his yards come in bunches...284 yards game, 195 yard game etc.) and he only has 7 TDs. Marshall is consistent. 8 of his 13 games he's put up over 100 yards and he has 11 TD's in 13 games. In otherwords, he's been consistently unstoppable. 

 

You cant say that for Brown. Though its not his fault that he's been dealing with backup QB's, technically Geno was the 1st stringer before getting knocked out, so Marshall has played this entire season with the Jet back up QB...and not only that, but he's the main reason why our backup has had his best season of his 11 year career. 

 

 

[afosomf]

We can talk about the talent, and we can talk about being much younger, but thats not the topic. The topic is "The best receiver of 2015". And though Brown is in the conversation, he's inconsistent (given that his yards come in bunches...284 yards game, 195 yard game etc.) and he only has 7 TDs. Marshall is consistent. 8 of his 13 games he's put up over 100 yards and he has 11 TD's in 13 games. In otherwords, he's been consistently unstoppable. 

 

You cant say that for Brown. Though its not his fault that he's been dealing with backup QB's, technically Geno was the 1st stringer before getting knocked out, so Marshall has played this entire season with the Jet back up QB...and not only that, but he's the main reason why our backup has had his best season of his 11 year career. 

 

 

For me it is eye test, i dont look at stats. I think most of jets offensive stats are padded by playing terrible defensive teams and when they have played a good defense, offense has not done squat.

[JustInFudge]

He's not the best WR in Football, that goes to OBJ or Brown IMO.  Splitting hairs really.  But Marshall is definitely up there in a borderline top 5 type of season.  Easily top 10. Especially when you consider the situation.  Any silly metric saying he's #20 and Decker is better is an absolute joke.

 

[Jet Nut]

Where's that Denver Jet fan who argued incessantly that Marshall was overrated, a lockerroom problem, injury prone, not worth the 5th pick and certainly not the money he's paid? 

Who has he become? 

 

[JustInFudge]

Where's that Denver Jet fan who argued incessantly that Marshall was overrated, a lockerroom problem, injury prone, not worth the 5th pick and certainly not the money he's paid? 

 

I've been watching some NFLN this morning, they're showing a ton of interviews with Marshall, Deck and Fitz.  These guys are great together.  No ego's just win.  Saying the key is "collaboration" and that the WR's get to add things to the playbook and add wrinkles in the game plan.  Seem like they're is just an incredible chemistry with them.

He's basically the complete opposite of the monster that he's made out to be.  But, you do have to wonder if they werent winning and Fitz wasnt feeding him if it would all still be all peaches and cream? Luckily, we dont have to worry and we can just enjoy one of the best seasons for a WR in Jets history.

[Villain The Foe]

For me it is eye test, i dont look at stats. I think most of jets offensive stats are padded by playing terrible defensive teams and when they have played a good defense, offense has not done squat.

I dont disagree with this at all. The Jets have played the easiest schedule I think I've ever seen, (which as a side note, this is why im so concerned about these last 3 games). 

 

But even with that. Look at the Steelers schedule. The only games they've played against good teams were the Pats, Bengals (2X), Cards and Seahawks. 

In those 5 games this is what Antonio Brown has done. 

Week 1. Pats: 133 yards 1TD (Loss)

Week 6 Ari: 24 yards 0 TD's (Win)

Week 8 Cincy: 47 yards 1 TD (Loss)

Week 11 Sea: 51 yards 0 TD's (Loss)

Week 14: Cincy: 87 yards 0 TD's. (Win)

I know you said that you dont look at stats, but I do, and I think its relevant given the topic really takes into consideration stats. With that said, the only team Brown went over 100 yards is the Pats game. Also, he played 5 games against teams that are currently playoff bound and he's only produced 2 TD's  and is averaging 68 yards per game. 

So he's not dominating these teams, which also shows his inconsistency. Though Marshall has only played the Pats this year, the man has been consistent. So I dont think anyone can use "tougher competition" when Brown isnt producing much against these teams and he's getting all of those yards against similar teams if you really think about it. 

And to add, Brown has Roethilisberger throwing to him. Brandon has Ryan Fitzpatrick. 

 

 

[BUM-KNEE]

I wasnt much of a Marshall fan through the years due to his attitude.

Its good to see him mature and do well with the Jets. Maybe its because he's getting fed the ball alot, but it seems like he grew up a bit too.

[afosomf]

 

I can play that game too, in the 2 games where jets played a legit defense

vs texans   5 for 47 1 td

vs NE         4 for 67  0 td

I dont disagree with this at all. The Jets have played the easiest schedule I think I've ever seen, (which as a side note, this is why im so concerned about these last 3 games). 

 

But even with that. Look at the Steelers schedule. The only games they've played against good teams were the Pats, Bengals (2X), Cards and Seahawks. 

In those 5 games this is what Antonio Brown has done. 

Week 1. Pats: 133 yards 1TD (Loss)

Week 6 Ari: 24 yards 0 TD's (Win)

Week 8 Cincy: 47 yards 1 TD (Loss)

Week 11 Sea: 51 yards 0 TD's (Loss)

Week 14: Cincy: 87 yards 0 TD's. (Win)

I know you said that you dont look at stats, but I do, and I think its relevant given the topic really takes into consideration stats. With that said. The only team Brown went over 100 yards is the Pats game. Also, he played 5 games against teams that are currently playoff bound and he's only produced 2 TD's  and is averaging 68 yards per game. 

So he's not dominating these teams, which also shows his inconsistency. Though Marshall has only played the Pats this year, the man has been consistent. So I dont think anyone can use "tougher competition" when Brown isnt producing much against these teams and he's getting all of those yards against similar teams if you really think about it. 

 

 

 

VTF i can play that game too

 

BM vs NE  4 for 67 yds 0 tds

       vs Hou  4 for 57 1 td

 

[Villain The Foe]

 

VTF i can play that game too

 

BM vs NE  4 for 67 yds 0 tds

 

You did start that game you know. I was just showing that Brown hasnt done much against the level of play that you was saying he played against. 

I simply said that Marshall has been consistent and has more TD's than Brown. So because of that, I dont see how Brown is so much better this year. 

[afosomf]

You did start that game you know. I was just showing that Brown hasnt done much against the level of play that you was saying he played against. 
I simply said that Marshall has been consistent and has more TD's than Brown. So because of that, I dont see how Brown is so much better this year. 

Trust me every GM in the league would rather have Brown, Next year will be a big test for Fitzugh and BM as the schedule is 10x harder.

[Beerfish]

He made fitz relevant, straight to canton he goes.

[afosomf]

I can also add stats vs Jills who have good secondary,, 3  for 23 and 1 td

 

BM has 8 drops  Antonio just 2

[Villain The Foe]

Trust me every GM in the league would rather have Brown, Next year will be a big test for Fitzugh and BM as the schedule is 10x harder.

I would rather have Brown, but wanting a guy and being the best in a particular year are two different things. 

I would rather have Dez Bryant than Brandon Marshall, does that mean Bryant had a better season? Of course not.  

And I agree that next year should be much harder than the piss poor schedule we had this year. Its a damn shame that we only are 8-5 with the schedule we played this year....BUT Fitz won more than 6 games so who cares right? 

[afosomf]

I would rather have Brown, but wanting a guy and being the best in a particular year are two different things. 
I would rather have Dez Bryant than Brandon Marshall, does that mean Bryant had a better season? Of course not.  

And I agree that next year should be much harder than the piss poor schedule we had this year. Its a damn shame that we only are 8-5 with the schedule we played this year....BUT Fitz won more than 6 games so who cares right? 

Touche....If fitzy is starter and team goes 6-10, i would hope you go back in archives to defend our position 

[Jet Nut]

I've been watching some NFLN this morning, they're showing a ton of interviews with Marshall, Deck and Fitz.  These guys are great together.  No ego's just win.  Saying the key is "collaboration" and that the WR's get to add things to the playbook and add wrinkles in the game plan.  Seem like they're is just an incredible chemistry with them.

He's basically the complete opposite of the monster that he's made out to be.  But, you do have to wonder if they werent winning and Fitz wasnt feeding him if it would all still be all peaches and cream? Luckily, we dont have to worry and we can just enjoy one of the best seasons for a WR in Jets history.

I'm watching the same interviews.  I get that, have wondered the same, its always easy to be happy when you're winning.  But I did argue with that fan too, kept asking what Marshall did that was so bad in Chicago.  I get and remember his issues early in his career.  But some of it has to have been his immaturity and the mental health issues he treats today.  

This may be one of those cases where when fans cry that the Jets never get lucky or that we're due for once that we have.  Because as you say, he's the complete opposite of what he has been made to be.  

Don't know if you also watch Inside the NFL but a week ago Boomer said most of what we're saying to Marshall.   Told him that he's nowhere near the person, monster he thought Marshall would be off of what he heard about Marshall.  That he's a really nice guy basically.

To those who cry we never get lucky, o far, we've been really lucky.  Marshall, Decker, Fitz, Bowles, Chan......

[Villain The Foe]

Touche....If fitzy is starter and team goes 6-10, i would hope you go back in archives to defend our position 

I would....if I even held such a position. I never made the claim that everyone was swearing up and down that I was saying for months. They were just upset that I didnt jump on the bandwagon and was defending the mistreatment of Geno.  They just took that thread title out of context and ran with it. You know how the masses can get lol. 

 

Antonio Brown has had a very good season. He is def a top 5 along with Marshall. And im not saying that Marshall had an outright better season. Im just saying that there can be a case made for Marshall. 

If Mike Maccagnan was offered Brown for Marshall straight up and he didnt take it he'd be a fool. 

 

[Snell41]

Brandon may not be the best, but he certainly is most valuable to his team. You take Brandon away and we have nothing. I love the guy, and given his battles and the way he's facing them I have a ton of respect for the gut

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[afosomf]

I would....if I even held such a position. I never made the claim that everyone was swearing up and down that I was saying for months. They were just upset that I didnt jump on the bandwagon and was defending the mistreatment of Geno.  They just took that thread title out of context and ran with it. You know how the masses can get lol. 

 

Antonio Brown has had a very good season. He is def a top 5 along with Marshall. And im not saying that Marshall had an outright better season. Im just saying that there can be a case made for Marshall. 

If Mike Maccagnan was offered Brown for Marshall straight up and he didnt take it he'd be a fool. 

 

yep ...jet fans should be happy that a 32 yr old is still productive, look how roddy white fell off the face of the earth

[Villain The Foe]

yep ...jet fans should be happy that a 32 yr old is still productive, look how roddy white fell off the face of the earth

True. 

Truth be told, I think Marshall has another year, maybe 2 in him, and I think its because he's never been to the playoffs. The guy has a fresh body for his age. It would be great for him to go beast mode for us in the playoffs if we can get there. 

[yanks9596]

Marshall is in the conversation every year.  He's a Hall of Famer.  

[RutgersJetFan]

I interpreted their stated qualifiers for what they were. And what they did not address. So, yeah, if you want to call that making it up, so be it. That's a straw man.

Verbatim, you said that by their own admission, their WR analytics are their least valuable. They literally never said that. Hate to break it to you, but that's not a straw man, that's just you lying. 

[The Crusher]

If the Jets lose tonight all these conversation will change to..  "Cut all of them, time to rebuild, blow it up." 

[JohnnyLV]

No , but we have a Top 3 WR1/WR2 combo because of Brandon,

[Long Island Leprechaun]

Verbatim, you said that by their own admission, their WR analytics are their least valuable. They literally never said that. Hate to break it to you, but that's not a straw man, that's just you lying. 

I put it poorly, and acknowledged it. You seem to be hell bent on a word rather than the point. You like Decker better than Marshall as a #1 receiver based on FO stats. Go for it. You would be in a very very small minority. The same one that would place John Brown over L. Fitzgerald because of the same stats. Can't have it both ways.

[RutgersJetFan]

I put it poorly, and acknowledged it.

Uh, what? This is not an acknowledgement:

Read their own write-up. Much is left out of the equation, as they note in their explanation. If you read it, you wouldn't be asking.

Nor is this:

It seemed apparent to me based on their equivocations about what they can't measure, not to mention what they don't consider -- how a receiver is used, who that receiver is paired with, or not. How do you measure Beckham's worth as essentially the sole quality target on the Giants vs. Fitzgerald with John Brown, for example. The dynamic is entirely different. How do you assess a possession or slot receiver vs. a vertical receiver? For example, does the slot lend itself to higher catch % by virtue of the routes that are run and the altered coverage. What about red zone value? What about impact of receiver who takes double teams to free other receivers? etc. etc. It's a lousy stat, frankly. If we were talking baseball sabermetrics, at least the performance could be isolated. Certain features of FO are ambitious and try to parse out individual performance, but in the end it's not terribly convincing. It can't be. the number of variables impacting an individual player in professional football are too complex. And throwing all the receivers into the same pot is kind of silly, not to mention the impact of who's throwing to them. Anyway, I really don't care if you rank Marshall 20th or 5th. He's the best receiver the Jets have had in many years. But you think Decker is better, so be it.

It's actually a horrible misinterpretation of not only their methodology, but advanced analytics in general, and it's pretty obvious that you don't know what you're talking about. The very idea that you think their numbers say this...

Decker better than Marshall as a #1 receiver based on FO stats.

...means you're completely clueless as to what their analytics measure. That's not what their numbers say at all, and almost all of the questions that you have about their methodology are actually answered in the extended FAQ, a section which you attempted to pompously accuse me of not reading when you clearly haven't.

And even with that, all fine and excusable, but you don't get to barge into a thread like a douchebag with a post like this:

Either you're trying to promote an extremely subtle joke, or you're a complete idiot.

...and not expect to get held accountable.

You are wrong, and not only are you wrong but you lied. You flat out made something up in an effort to try and put another person down and make them feel inadequate. Perhaps next time you're better off keeping your mouth shut.