#27TheDominator Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 A bit overblown. Our GM is himself a scout by trade, and spent the 2014 season (and the 3 seasons before that) as Houston's director of college scouting. He wasn't a pencil pusher that merely aggregates the opinions of others. THIS year he might be because he was not spending the entire 2015 season doing nothing but college scouting. He brought back Harris and Pace because Bowles - a 100% defense guy - wanted experienced starters for his first season as HC. I think he brought back Harris and Pace because Harris and Pace are way better than the board gives them credit. Everybody wants speed, but then complains that guys suck when they miss tackles. Harris is always squared up and almost never misses. Pace is also almost always in the right position and squared up. That means more than the board thinks. Especially when you are installing your D. You can fill the spaces between the guys in the right spot with speed. Watch Sheldon running around sometimes. You don't want too many guys freelancing. It creates a mess and gives up big plays. As for Abraham, everybody's #accountability #hardass #nottheplayersfriend coach seemed to love him in Arizona. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LWC611 Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 So you want to credit Abraham for being a china doll and missing games? Theres no difference. At the end of 5 seasons they contributed the same. Abraham didnt contribute more. He sat on the bench in a playoff game with a tummy ache. If I remember correctly, Abraham did not play a full season until it was his walk year.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 I think he brought back Harris and Pace because Harris and Pace are way better than the board gives them credit. Everybody wants speed, but then complains that guys suck when they miss tackles. Harris is always squared up and almost never misses. Pace is also almost always in the right position and squared up. That means more than the board thinks. Especially when you are installing your D. You can fill the spaces between the guys in the right spot with speed. Watch Sheldon running around sometimes. You don't want too many guys freelancing. It creates a mess and gives up big plays. As for Abraham, everybody's #accountability #hardass #nottheplayersfriend coach seemed to love him in Arizona. Pace was fine to bring back because he was cheap for what he brings and it was only for 1 year while transitioning from Rex to Bowles. Harris was too much, in $ and in guaranteed money in particular. He missed a couple of key tackles just in the Buffalo game alone. If he was brought in for this one quality, he's not allowed to mess up in key situations in big games. And he's an outright liability against the pass and is paid so much and has so much clout in the locker room Bowles won't ever take him off the field. It isn't a choice that if we didn't re-sign Harris we would have a defense full of mindless, undisciplined freelancers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Pace was fine to bring back because he was cheap for what he brings and it was only for 1 year while transitioning from Rex to Bowles. Harris was too much, in $ and in guaranteed money in particular. He missed a couple of key tackles just in the Buffalo game alone. If he was brought in for this one quality, he's not allowed to mess up in key situations in big games. And he's an outright liability against the pass and is paid so much and has so much clout in the locker room Bowles won't ever take him off the field. It isn't a choice that if we didn't re-sign Harris we would have a defense full of mindless, undisciplined freelancers. Funny. When I typed that post I thought - why did you quote Sperm, it really isn't directed at him? Now I see it was. I am pretty much in line with your thinking. I didn't want Harris back at that much money and years. I am not surprised he got paid though and I think he is the kind of guy that is more valued by teams than fans. Fans like guys like Maybin. I assume that Harris is very good at being defensive QB and recognizing what is going on. He has been the key part of some very good defenses. Maybe we wouldn't have a defense full of mindless freelancers, but playing Demario Davis and Erin Henderson together does not make us better. OTOH, I'm not sure the difference is worth the investment. I assume that Bowles/Maccagnan are sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detectivekimble Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 he contributed little over Mo. He had a few more sacks and they get headlines, I get it. But he was always hurt, was more concerned with injuries than playing. Bottom line he had 5 or so more sacks over the 5 years. And Mo is the better lineman, does more. He isn't. The fact that Abraham had 6.5 more sacks (that's not insignificant -- Wilkerson has had less than 6.5 sacks in a season three out of his five years) and more forced turnovers in that many less games shows how disruptive Abraham was when he was on the field. The dude is an all-time sack leader, despite all of those missed games. Seriously, if Mo is healthy next year, it's probably a 50-50 proposition that he gets double digit sacks. It's definitely not a given. If Abraham was healthy, there was no ******* doubt that he was getting double digit sacks. Say what you want about the guy, but he was an amazing talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detectivekimble Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 If I remember correctly, Abraham did not play a full season until it was his walk year.... You're not remembering correctly. He played in 16 games three times before he was traded to the Falcons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 He isn't. The fact that Abraham had 6.5 more sacks (that's not insignificant -- Wilkerson has had less than 6.5 sacks in a season three out of his five years) and more forced turnovers in that many less games shows how disruptive Abraham was when he was on the field. The dude is an all-time sack leader, despite all of those missed games. Seriously, if Mo is healthy next year, it's probably a 50-50 proposition that he gets double digit sacks. It's definitely not a given. If Abraham was healthy, there was no ******* doubt that he was getting double digit sacks. Say what you want about the guy, but he was an amazing talent. That you think 6.5 sacks over 5 years, 3-4 DE vs 4-3 DE is significant, that sacks are the deciding factor between these two players and the way they were asked to play the game says a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detectivekimble Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 That you think 6.5 sacks over 5 years, 3-4 DE vs 4-3 DE is significant, that sacks are the deciding factor between these two players and the way they were asked to play the game says a lot. Use your eyes. Abraham was much more disruptive. It's not only sacks, it's hurries, sacks, forced turnovers. Do you realize that the guy has the most forced fumbles of in NFL history? Only Reggie White and Lawrence Taylor have more three sack games. Amazing, considering how many games he missed. Sorry, Wilkerson isn't the better player and it isn't even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Use your eyes. Abraham was much more disruptive. It's not only sacks, it's hurries, sacks, forced turnovers. Do you realize that the guy has the most forced fumbles of in NFL history? Only Reggie White and Lawrence Taylor have more three sack games. Amazing, considering how many games he missed. Sorry, Wilkerson isn't the better player and it isn't even close. You told me that 6.5 sacks over the 5 years we were talking about was significant. I say that with the different positions they play, what they're asked to do theyre not significant. Now youre on to 3 sack games over their careers. Im not talking sacks, you keep talking sacks. Disruptive is a hard stat to quantify. I think Abraham was more of an all or nothing player, that when he didnt get to the QB and get his sack or fumble, he didnt do more than or provide more importance than Mo in this D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupz27 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 With the 20th pick in the NFL 2016 Draft the New York Jets select.........Leonard Floyd LB Georgia I'd rather Scooby Wright please, reminds me of the Carolina MLB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bealeb319 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Everyone seems to be focused on the D in this thread. I didnt hear the presser but did he specifically say we need to get faster on Defense? Because their isnt any speed on offense either. we just drafter Devin Smith with a second round pick I think he is going to develop nicely next year and become our speed guy, maybe they will use him in the slot and see if he can get us lots of yards after the catch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 we just drafter Devin Smith with a second round pick I think he is going to develop nicely next year and become our speed guy, maybe they will use him in the slot and see if he can get us lots of yards after the catch. Yeah, I hope so. I'm not holding my breath on him though. He seems extremely soft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Can you imagine if rookie Stephen Hill had Decker and Marshall in front of him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Speed on offense needs to be the priority. Yes, the defense can use some speed, but the defense is still solid. We need explosive plays from the offense - we have no one like that. Until Devin Smith proves otherwise - it's still no one. We have two very good WR's but neither one of them is scaring anyone with explosive speed. What this team needs is a FAST, quality RB....That should be teams top priority this off season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LWC611 Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 You're not remembering correctly. He played in 16 games three times before he was traded to the Falcons. Thanks I checked and you are right... Thanks for the correction... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdetroit Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Harris and Pace are slow as balls. Those 2 and Coples constantly got beat dropping back in zone this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdetroit Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Can you imagine if rookie Stephen Hill had Decker and Marshall in front of him? he'd still suck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 he'd still suck Mmhmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Yeah, I hope so. I'm not holding my breath on him though. He seems extremely soft. We suck at second round picks. Just perpetually suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdetroit Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 We suck at second round picks. Just perpetually suck. Devin smith over DGB and Funches looks like the next dumpster fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Devin smith over DGB and Funches looks like the next dumpster fire It doesnt look good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 We suck at second round picks. Just perpetually suck. Last solid 2nd round pick was David Harris in 2007. Still, better to suck at 2nd than 1st. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 You're not remembering correctly. He played in 16 games three times before he was traded to the Falcons. 3 seasons out of 6, not really an iron man like record though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Yeah, I hope so. I'm not holding my breath on him though. He seems extremely soft. Yeah, when someone breaks ribs and blows out a knee I think soft. A tougher guy would have rubbed dirt on both injuries and played on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Yeah, when someone breaks ribs and blows out a knee I think soft. A tougher guy would have rubbed dirt on both injuries and played on. I think he was referring to his play on the field. He played soft, looked pouty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJ Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Our LBs as constructed by Rex are first and foremost run stoppers. Mac is going to have his work cut out for him in making that transition. And that's a big problem when more than a couple times this season avg run blocking took us down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 I think he was referring to his play on the field. He played soft, looked pouty. My bad then. It is amazing what we see when we look at something when we start with an opinion. Nothing in the way he played, looked on the field etc looked pouty. Or that he was soft. Theres a whole large contingent that have to backtrack after they came to conclusions about Pryor a year before too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJ Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 he'd still suck but the good news is we wouldn't know that cause he'd never have seen the field - we just would have speculated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Yeah, when someone breaks ribs and blows out a knee I think soft. A tougher guy would have rubbed dirt on both injuries and played on. I think he was referring to his play on the field. He played soft, looked pouty. My bad then. It is amazing what we see when we look at something when we start with an opinion. Nothing in the way he played, looked on the field etc looked pouty. Or that he was soft. Theres a whole large contingent that have to backtrack after they came to conclusions about Pryor a year before too. Yes, I was referring to on the field. He gets pushed off his route way to easy, doesnt really seem to aggressively go after the ball, just seems very passive. I hope I'm wrong. I was part of the contingent that back tracked on Pryor. He looked worse his rookie season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Yes, I was referring to on the field. He gets pushed off his route way to easy, doesnt really seem to aggressively go after the ball, just seems very passive. I hope I'm wrong. I was part of the contingent that back tracked on Pryor. He looked worse his rookie season. Hopefully e has a Pryor like turn around. Its a hard transition to the NFL. Harder for positions like WR. Missing a chunk of camp, preseason, the early season and then playing a handful of games makes it hard to evaluate what he is or will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Devin smith over DGB and Funches looks like the next dumpster fire DGB was passed for reasons other than football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdetroit Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 DGB was passed for reasons other than football. Kevin Dyson was drafted over Randy Moss. Awesome move Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Kevin Dyson was drafted over Randy Moss. Awesome move Moss was only an a$$hole most of his career, not all of it. Moss won so many championships, was a team leader and just about everything you would want in a player in spite of all the worries coming out of college If youre a fantasy football geek, hes a winner. Otherwise not so much Lots of shltty players were drafted ahead of players who were goo, great or HOF players. None of which has anything to do with our last draft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesr Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 I think he was referring to his play on the field. He played soft, looked pouty. He certainly looked most times like he wanted to avoid contact downfield - didn't fight for the ball, allowed defenders to push him off his route and so on. Too easy for a DB to defend a guy like that. I'm hoping in the offseason he can learn how to impose himself a bit more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nostradamus Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 We will draft a pass rusher somewhere within the first 4 rounds I would think but the starters at OLB on passing downs will still be Mauldin and Catapano who are both under contract. They will be the starters on passing downs unless they are beaten out by a rookie. Nobody talks about Catapano but he is better than Mauldin. Unfortunate injury Cat had but he will be back by start of camp. With both these guys rushing they can cause problems for QBs. This combo had 2 sacks & multiple hits and pressures in the 6 quarters they played together as starters before Catapano's injury. Having said that they will likely throw a talented rookie into the mix via the draft to replace 35 yr old Pace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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