Paradis Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 in 2011, we took the BPA with Mo Wilk at #30... worked out great. Except it didn't. Now, he's slapped with the dreaded franchise tag and we're talking about trading him. How did it get to this? Well for starters, our management(s) proceeded to play the BPA game to a fault. Our roster is now saturated with redundancy at DE/DT and we have no cap room to address QB, OT, TE... RB...WR... Corner... water boy... you name it. Is that all because of BPA, no. but yes. 2012 -- Coples. Forget the bust part (there's too many theories about that one), we NEEDED interior line help. now-probowler David DeCastro was right there. But he wasn't the "BPA". 2013 -- Dustin Keller was gone, and we needed TE help. Tyler Eifert who caught 100 TDs this past year was on the board. BPA? Sheldon Richardson. Awesome. 2015 -- BPA was Williams.. apparently? If you ask me, Todd fcking Gurley was, but whatever. All i know is if we drafted Gurley, we wouldn't need RB help like we do now, and we'd have made the playoffs last year. So you tell me, BPA is the way to go? Would you rather have Coples Richardson and Williams right now, or Decastro, Gurley and Eifert. Just my opinion, but i'm pretty sure we could've have gotten by with Wilk, Snacks, and some one else... i mean we haven't made the playoffs since Wilks rookie year. "I'm the best player available" --Dustin Keller, 2000 and never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 no GM has ever revealed his board, or the real reason he took a player we just assume we know what's up we don't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 14 minutes ago, Paradis said: in 2011, we took the BPA with Mo Wilk at #30... worked out great. Except it didn't. Now, he's slapped with the dreaded franchise tag and we're talking about trading him. How did it get to this? Well for starters, our management(s) proceeded to play the BPA game to a fault. Our roster is now saturated with redundancy at DE/DT and we have no cap room to address QB, OT, TE... RB...WR... Corner... water boy... you name it. Is that all because of BPA, no. but yes. 2012 -- Coples. Forget the bust part (there's too many theories about that one), we NEEDED interior line help. now-probowler David DeCastro was right there. But he wasn't the "BPA". 2013 -- Dustin Keller was gone, and we needed TE help. Tyler Eifert who caught 100 TDs this past year was on the board. BPA? Sheldon Richardson. Awesome. 2015 -- BPA was Williams.. apparently? If you ask me, Todd fcking Gurley was, but whatever. All i know is if we drafted Gurley, we wouldn't need RB help like we do now, and we'd have made the playoffs last year. So you tell me, BPA is the way to go? Would you rather have Coples Richardson and Williams right now, or Decastro, Gurley and Eifert. Just my opinion, but i'm pretty sure we could've have gotten by with Wilk, Snacks, and some one else... i mean we haven't made the playoffs since Wilks rookie year. We haven't made the playoffs since Mo has been a Jet.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradis Posted March 7, 2016 Author Share Posted March 7, 2016 7 minutes ago, Larz said: no GM has ever revealed his board, or the real reason he took a player we just assume we know what's up we don't So you're suggesting that last year Mac looked at his board and was like -- we really need some Dline depth. Gurley's the BPA available, but i'm more interested in addressing this Dline crisis... is that about right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradis Posted March 7, 2016 Author Share Posted March 7, 2016 3 minutes ago, Savage69 said: We haven't made the playoffs since Mo has been a Jet.. So you're saying since we've adhered to BPA, we've never made the playoffs. Confirm/Deny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 If we don't do this last year we have mowilk with the franchise tag, Richardson on the edge of another suspension and no Williams. We were not stacked to the gills with great Dline when mo was drafted so this does not apply to him at all imo. I don't see how you can complain about getting a great pro bowler that late in the draft. The reason you do draft bpa most of the time? Things can change dramatically in a year or two time. Do not confuse BPA with stupid picks like shoe horning coples into an olb spot. No BPA? Rogers is not a packer. Holt is not a Ram Wayne is not a Colt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 5 minutes ago, Paradis said: So you're suggesting that last year Mac looked at his board and was like -- we really need some Dline depth. Gurley's the BPA available, but i'm more interested in addressing this Dline crisis... is that about right? the point is hand wringing over past draft mistakes based on assuming we know why the decision was made is silly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 2 minutes ago, Paradis said: So you're saying since we've adhered to BPA, we've never made the playoffs. Confirm/Deny I just corrected your post which was wrong.. As far as BPA goes I would be a terrible GM I'm not sure what years were really need or BPA because I think Wilson would have been a Jet if it was both a BPA and need year in 2012.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradis Posted March 7, 2016 Author Share Posted March 7, 2016 the point is hand wringing over past draft mistakes based on assuming we know why the decision was made is silly So is breathing, but we have to do it. Maybe you need to revisit the topic statement. It's an exploratory discussion about how BPA followed to a fault can do damage. Do you care to weigh in with anything besides overt contention? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 we should always draft for need, but only if the players are good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Jets fan Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 25 minutes ago, Paradis said: in 2011, we took the BPA with Mo Wilk at #30... worked out great. Except it didn't. Now, he's slapped with the dreaded franchise tag and we're talking about trading him. How did it get to this? Well for starters, our management(s) proceeded to play the BPA game to a fault. Our roster is now saturated with redundancy at DE/DT and we have no cap room to address QB, OT, TE... RB...WR... Corner... water boy... you name it. Is that all because of BPA, no. but yes. 2012 -- Coples. Forget the bust part (there's too many theories about that one), we NEEDED interior line help. now-probowler David DeCastro was right there. But he wasn't the "BPA". 2013 -- Dustin Keller was gone, and we needed TE help. Tyler Eifert who caught 100 TDs this past year was on the board. BPA? Sheldon Richardson. Awesome. 2015 -- BPA was Williams.. apparently? If you ask me, Todd fcking Gurley was, but whatever. All i know is if we drafted Gurley, we wouldn't need RB help like we do now, and we'd have made the playoffs last year. So you tell me, BPA is the way to go? Would you rather have Coples Richardson and Williams right now, or Decastro, Gurley and Eifert. Just my opinion, but i'm pretty sure we could've have gotten by with Wilk, Snacks, and some one else... i mean we haven't made the playoffs since Wilks rookie year. Eifert Caught 100 TD's? Damn I wish we had him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIJetsFan Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Nothing wrong with BPA, what's wrong is when a GM who can't make a trade or let a cap busting player walk when he's overstocked at a players position due to BPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinstar Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Over the course of time were dealing with here, we have had 3 GMs making all kind of bone head decisions . Who the frill drafts a TE that can't block from a spread offense in the 2nd round. Who the frill drafts a SS in the 1st round and plays him at FS . You can't lump all these guys in the same pot because what you get won't resemble gumbo . Last yr, the BPA was the player we took and should have taken after exhausting every attempt to trade the pick away. We will see who the BPA is on the board this yr, but my bet is it won't be a QB . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradis Posted March 7, 2016 Author Share Posted March 7, 2016 Over the course of time were dealing with here, we have had 3 GMs making all kind of bone head decisions . Who the frill drafts a TE that can't block from a spread offense in the 2nd round. Who the frill drafts a SS in the 1st round and plays him at FS . You can't lump all these guys in the same pot because what you get won't resemble gumbo . Last yr, the BPA was the player we took and should have taken after exhausting every attempt to trade the pick away. We will see who the BPA is on the board this yr, but my bet is it won't be a QB . So if this year the BPA is Vernon Butler on macs board, you think we should take him? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinstar Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Depends on who else is on the board, can we orchestrate a trade down and if there's another player on the board with a similar value at a position of need . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenseed4 Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Vernon Butler for the win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bealeb319 Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 37 minutes ago, Paradis said: in 2011, we took the BPA with Mo Wilk at #30... worked out great. Except it didn't. Now, he's slapped with the dreaded franchise tag and we're talking about trading him. How did it get to this? Well for starters, our management(s) proceeded to play the BPA game to a fault. Our roster is now saturated with redundancy at DE/DT and we have no cap room to address QB, OT, TE... RB...WR... Corner... water boy... you name it. Is that all because of BPA, no. but yes. 2012 -- Coples. Forget the bust part (there's too many theories about that one), we NEEDED interior line help. now-probowler David DeCastro was right there. But he wasn't the "BPA". 2013 -- Dustin Keller was gone, and we needed TE help. Tyler Eifert who caught 100 TDs this past year was on the board. BPA? Sheldon Richardson. Awesome. 2015 -- BPA was Williams.. apparently? If you ask me, Todd fcking Gurley was, but whatever. All i know is if we drafted Gurley, we wouldn't need RB help like we do now, and we'd have made the playoffs last year. So you tell me, BPA is the way to go? Would you rather have Coples Richardson and Williams right now, or Decastro, Gurley and Eifert. Just my opinion, but i'm pretty sure we could've have gotten by with Wilk, Snacks, and some one else... i mean we haven't made the playoffs since Wilks rookie year. "I'm the best player available" --Dustin Keller, 2000 and never. Are you serious? how could you be upset about taking Richardson over Eifert that's like complaining that you only won 2 dollars on your scratch off lottery ticket instead of 3. Complain about taking Miliner over Eifert and I could atleast understand that. Williams wasn't only supposed to be the best player available when we drafted him but also arguably the best player in the draft and well by far the closest thing to a sure thing. I don't know if anyone wanted us to take Gurley last year as bad as I did but with his injury and Williams still on the board it was unjustifiable. Every player in every draft is a crapshoot and taking the best player available doesn't guarantee that he will be the best one who was left on the board it just means that he is the most likely to remain an nfl starter for awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Thread fails for a number of reasons. Who knows with any certainty which picks were BPA? And why assume that if Tanny or Idzik went BPA on their board that the players were actually the BPA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradis Posted March 7, 2016 Author Share Posted March 7, 2016 Are you serious? how could you be upset about taking Richardson over Eifert that's like complaining that you only won 2 dollars on your scratch off lottery ticket instead of 3. Complain about taking Miliner over Eifert and I could atleast understand that. Williams wasn't only supposed to be the best player available when we drafted him but also arguably the best player in the draft and well by far the closest thing to a sure thing. I don't know if anyone wanted us to take Gurley last year as bad as I did but with his injury and Williams still on the board it was unjustifiable. Every player in every draft is a crapshoot and taking the best player available doesn't guarantee that he will be the best one who was left on the board it just means that he is the most likely to remain an nfl starter for awhile. I'm not an idiot. I get the "logic" but it's just a theory. In practice it doesn't always work - especially when followed like dogma. Where did having all these lineman get us? In a weird contract snafu. That's where. And now we have holes in 3/4 of our roster. So yes. I will be upset. And not impressed with taking Williams over Gurley... B/c if he was so special, why did 5 other teams pass on him. Oh yea. Need. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradis Posted March 7, 2016 Author Share Posted March 7, 2016 And why assume that if Tanny or Idzik went BPA on their board that the players were actually the BPA Touché Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neckdemon Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 23 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said: Nothing wrong with BPA, what's wrong is when a GM who can't make a trade or let a cap busting player walk when he's overstocked at a players position due to BPA. straight up this is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesr Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 In theory, you should enter the draft having filled holes via FA. So the concept of "need" should be significantly lessened. In theory, this allows you to draft the BPA, maximising the value of your draft picks rather than picking a lesser player drafted out of need. In theory, this makes it easier in future to fill your holes in FA ahead of the following draft, because - if you scout correctly and pick wisely - you will have fewer needs to fill, due to having a better talent base in the first place. In theory, this is why good teams stay good even when they have lower draft picks - because they have the ability to draft on talent / value rather than need. As they have fewer holes to start with. When you apply the real life situations of (a) starting from a weak position with lots of holes and (b) pressure to win now, theory starts to go out the window in favour of short term "quick wins" that usually make the situation worse, rather than better. Like the gambling addict who just knows the next race is the one with the sure fire winner ... Also, BPA is a relative thing ... if two guys are almost the same rating on your board you can easily take the need position vs. the strict BPA on your board (e.g. if you have two guys rated at 88 and 89, taking the 88 at a position of need is fine if the guy at 89 is not). But if they're miles apart (e.g. 79 vs. 89) you take the 89 (IF you can't trade out of the pick). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bealeb319 Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 1 minute ago, Paradis said: I'm not an idiot. I get the "logic" but it's just a theory. In practice it doesn't always work - especially when followed like dogma. Where did having all these lineman get us? In a weird contract snafu. That's where. And now we have holes in 3/4 of our roster. So yes. I will be upset. And not impressed with taking Williams over Gurley... B/c if he was so special, why did 5 other teams pass on him. Oh yea. Need. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk two of those teams took their "franchise" QBs and to be quite honest my jaw actually dropped when Washington passed on him. Gurley was special in college but his injury wasn't a minor one. The Rams drafting him followed the boom or bust logic which paid off for them (if he remains healthy) but more often than not that draft strategy doesn't pan out. Honestly if we had drafted Gurley or Eifert or something and they ended up being a bust you would be upset we didn't draft BPA. In the first two rounds BPA is the best strategy you don't reach for a maybe when there is something close to a sure thing just to fill a hole. As far as us having holes in 3/4 of your roster I think it might be closer to 1/5th and I really don't think we have any more problems than most teams have. Free agency is for patching up the holes and it starts tomorrow. Macc brought in some pretty decent players last season who were under the radar guys why don't we give him a chance and see what he can do for us this season before we go crazy about his ability to evaluate players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradis Posted March 7, 2016 Author Share Posted March 7, 2016 two of those teams took their "franchise" QBs and to be quite honest my jaw actually dropped when Washington passed on him. Gurley was special in college but his injury wasn't a minor one. The Rams drafting him followed the boom or bust logic which paid off for them (if he remains healthy) but more often than not that draft strategy doesn't pan out. Honestly if we had drafted Gurley or Eifert or something and they ended up being a bust you would be upset we didn't draft BPA. In the first two rounds BPA is the best strategy you don't reach for a maybe when there is something close to a sure thing just to fill a hole. As far as us having holes in 3/4 of your roster I think it might be closer to 1/5th and I really don't think we have any more problems than most teams have. Free agency is for patching up the holes and it starts tomorrow. Macc brought in some pretty decent players last season who were under the radar guys why don't we give him a chance and see what he can do for us this season before we go crazy about his ability to evaluate players. We're on different planets. On a lot of things, including player evaluation coming out of college. Parts of this thread have obviously been dressed up for dramatics and fun reading, but your iron boxed ideology is something I can't level with. You can't reach on talent, but also can't entertain redundancy in this sport. There's no room for it. Gonna leave it at that cause we're not going to get any closer. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenseed4 Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 This HAS been fun-reading and dramatic. Thanks, Paradis! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 43 minutes ago, dbatesman said: we should always draft for need, but only if the players are good I'd take it one step further; you should always get the best player available when looking back at the board 5 years later. If you wanna GM right, you gotta have a bare minimum of five year foresight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 The problem isn't BPA. The problem is terrible rating of prospects. Rex clearly had an eye for Dline talent and Tannenbaum and Idzik leaned on that. The rest was basically a disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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